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SamuraiPanda

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Naw dude, Corki needs his abilities for farming. By FAR the most cost-effective hardcore mana-regen item is the Chalice. 920g and you'll never worry about mana again. Other good options would be Philosopher's Stone (mana/hp regen + 5g/10s) or the mana regen mastery skill in the utility tree. You could also potentially get a few mana regen runes for your early game once the store opens on Friday.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Naw dude, Corki needs his abilities for farming. By FAR the most cost-effective hardcore mana-regen item is the Chalice. 920g and you'll never worry about mana again. Other good options would be Philosopher's Stone (mana/hp regen + 5g/10s) or the mana regen mastery skill in the utility tree. You could also potentially get a few mana regen runes for your early game once the store opens on Friday.
philosopher's stone is a great bet as long as you get it early.

That 5 per 10 pays for itself fast.

furthermore, it's actually a good item, considering that it's a 5 per 10 item at least.


After that, corki needs boots.And there's almost never a reason not to go merc treads.

Then, let's be honest, Corki does very well with nashor's tooth and trinity force or, if, god forbid you have to go all out mage for your team, go lich bane.
 

SamuraiPanda

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Meh, merc treads are almost always the correct solution, but he runs Corki with Flash. Between Valkyrie and Flash, I don't see how anything could hold you down.

And I think I once calculated how long it takes for the Philosopher's stone to pay itself off. IIRC it takes 37 minutes just to break even for the item itself (1115g). But yeah, its a great value. High level Corki players like Korean always go Philosopher's first.

EDIT:
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=26321

Agree? Disagree?
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Meh, merc treads are almost always the correct solution, but he runs Corki with Flash. Between Valkyrie and Flash, I don't see how anything could hold you down.

And I think I once calculated how long it takes for the Philosopher's stone to pay itself off. IIRC it takes 37 minutes just to break even for the item itself (1115g). But yeah, its a great value. High level Corki players like Korean always go Philosopher's first.

EDIT: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=26321 Agree? Disagree?
are you assuming that you never sell it back? ^_^
 

Overswarm

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Philosopher seems like it'd be a good idea... but is SLOW. I have no early game potential whatsoever.

Chalice is meh. Again slows me too much.

I've been thinking abuot getting the stinger. 20% attack + mana regen. Imma try it next game.
 

sneakytako

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racing to BF sword makes the most sense to me. I don't really use his abilities to farm early, I prefer last hitting and not pushing my lane XD.

I like getting Catalyst in my first tp home. The heal you get from leveling up is pretty dominant in a lane early but idk about corki.

I prefer the str hero-ish champions :D
 

Overswarm

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Tako, you should check out Master Yi and Jax.


Catalyst is also uber... but will be nerfed next patch. :[
 

AvariceX

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Chalice is amazing in the current meta. There's only a few heroes I'd get philosopher's on, though it's ok with corki.

Also the only good boots right now are Mobility and Merc Treads. Maybe a Berserker's Greaves for your carry, but that's it.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I prefer philosopher's with most situations actually.

Sure, it doesn't have the mana regen, but it as health regen, and the 5p10 gets you to other more useful items more quickly. And Merc Treads do tend to give enough MR for early game.
 

SamuraiPanda

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Oh god. Have you guys read the new patch notes? The game is changing SO MUCH now. I played a quick practice game to test out one of the new active items... At level 2 or 3 with Blitzcrank, 0 items/runes/masteries, I got a turret down to half hp before I had to retreat. Wtf. Plus all the new snowball items... an item that makes ANY MAGIC DAMAGE MOVE CRIT (= making it into Parrley) changes so many characters drastically. And the kicker is that by the time this patch is released on the normal servers (which they haven't said when that is yet), the store will be released, so everyone will have runes... This game is going to get soooo much faster.

Not only that but there are unlisted sound changes, UI changes (the in-game store looks totally different), a death recap to see how you died, etc. This is the biggest patch the game has seen yet. Its mindblowing just how much the game will change now.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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These are HUGE changes.

I'd be interested to see them.


I like the masamune's blad as the anti jax item though.

pretty cool.
 

SamuraiPanda

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Zileas said:
Just so you crazy kids now -- we are adding yet more stuff today or tomorrow to this patch. Be sure to send Ezreal, Guinsoo, Coronach and Brackhar fan mail for working so hard to do it.
Omgwtfbbq. There is so much changing >_<

Also, I discovered that Summoner's Rift is COMPLETELY different now in terms of Brush. There is far less brush overall, top/bot lanes have different sides of brush covered, no brush covering baron/dragon's entrances, etc. But they left the winter version like the old version of Summoner's Rift. Honestly, they should just throw winter/TT onto the MM like nao. No reason not to IMO.
 

SamuraiPanda

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Hells yeah it is. Basically, tower diving hurts much more now. Towers do more damage but they die faster. Its an interesting mechanic.
 

AvariceX

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That's a really good change actually. Towers are so useless right now and tower diving is out of control. The last patch tried to tone down 4-5 man ganksquad effectiveness but instead only helped it:
-No ambient gold while dead
-Easier to tower dive
-Larger solo XP bonus for the one person not rolling with your 4 man ganksquad.

Towers have been little more than decoration for this patch, I'm really hoping to see them be useful again.

On an unrelated note, I've been playing Alistar comboing with my friend's Rammus quite a bit recently; headbutt > taunt > get ***** by creeps. First blood every game :D...and Ali and Rammus are really good in the late game too.

edit:

Also - STORRRRRRRR
 

SamuraiPanda

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May 22, 2006
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****it. So the guys at leagecraft put up runes to add on top of your builds and stuff, but honestly I can't figure out what to do with them. Runes are so weak its ridiculous. The best setups I'm getting are spamming +crit% runes, since they are the only ones I've found that actually add up to something worthwhile. What rune builds are you guys playing with atm?

EDIT: I also discovered that Atma's Impaler, 2405g, gives Blitzcrank a larger damage boost than the Infinity Edge when at level 18 (+90 vs +80), without stacking any HP outside of his natural amount.

Gonna try playing around with that one :D
 

SamuraiPanda

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I'm tackling how I should approach runes right now. According to Zileas, a fully decked out tier 3 rune page is the equivalent of 1k's worth of items in the game, and that the biggest impact will be early game. Given these things, I've decided to make one of two types of pages:

1. Make a page that stack early game helping runes
2. Make a page of runes that give stats relevant to late game (i.e. cooldown or crit, since there are NO other stats that are worth having late game that I've seen).

Just dunno which one I wanna go right now. I feel like if I don't do #1 then I'll be struggling in the early game as more people get runes, but I'll be better off in the late game than them (possibly) if I do #2...

EDIT: Stacked with level-based CD runes, the max CD reduction you can get is 23.22% at level 18. Max straight CD bonus is 14.12%. Pretty significant difference. CD is something that would help early and late game, so I'm tempted to just do a CD page (maybe mix straight and level-based).

Max crit chance with level-based is 18.9%. Straight is.... 20.25%?? Wtf? ...Wow. As abusrd as it is, many of the straight crit chance runes are better than the level based ones. Weird.
 

sneakytako

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How about maxing dodge runes and playing Jax? But none of the attack/attackspeed/crit/hp seem to be worth it.

Also, maxing CD with the CD masteries helps almost every hero, although some more than others. I really like playing blitzcrank with low cd, but I could see Nunu, Rammus, Cho, Warwick, etc being really good.

What do you guys think of Warwick? At first I thought he was a lame Naix, but he actaully plays kinda like Bane Elemental early. His ult disables longer than any other disable i've seen, reminds me of fiends grip XD.
 

SamuraiPanda

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Warwick sucks balls. I mean, he can be great in the right circumstances or with the right kind of team, but for the most part he's laughable.

And I dunno about maxing dodge, I'd have to go over how much bonus you'd get. And I'm not sure it would matter THAT much since a new active item next patch lets you have a 100% hit rate.
 

Overswarm

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Warwick sucks balls. I mean, he can be great in the right circumstances or with the right kind of team, but for the most part he's laughable.
Agreed. I played only Warwick for a long time. If you've got a great 4 man team + you, your jungling really helps them with getting gold and levels, so early game if they don't die your entire team is super leveled. Once you get your bloodrazor and attack speed and lifesteal, you're the best 1v1 hero in the game. Unfortunately, all you can do is try to catch people as they leave the base to help their teammates. It works sometimes, but everyone now has Flash or a getaway move that really makes it hard for warwick to do his thing. He's the best in the game at killing weakened opponents due to his blood scent thing, and his universal attack speed buff is good.... but he's basically worthless in a team fight. Too low of HP to tank, not enough lifesteal to survive, and his moves all do crap damage.

In 3v3 games on Twisted Treeline he'll be pretty good though. His ability to solo creeps at lower levels than most is very valuable for getting buffs.
 

SamuraiPanda

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I'm actually rather curious as to why you think HoN/DotA are better than LoL. I've seen tons of arguments for and against each, but LoL always seems to come out on top. Keep in mind, this is from the perspective of a person who played DotA in the past but never bothered getting into it (thus wouldn't like some of the mechanics that were "core" to DotA, like denying.

In other news, Zileas mentioned that the new champ Udyr is (probably) in the rotation next week. Dunno if they'll be able to pull through with it, but it'll be cool if they do. Also, new test realm patch ETA is tomorrow.
 

TheWalkingThano

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Nov 21, 2006
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I've started getting into this pretty recently. I've been playing a tank Katarina and support/burst damage Blitzcrank. I'm looking to get better so hit me up under the same name (TheWalkingThano) if you want to play a game.

I've noticed that Blitz and Sion go nuts together. If you both sit behind some trees you can go Sion shield -> rocket grab -> rocket punch -> Sion shield burst -> Blitz ulti to pretty much generate enough damage and stun to kill anybody. You'll also get a couple lightning strikes from Blitz's ultimate before you activate it. I'm still looking to improve my build though. I've been going Trinity Force because it does pretty much everything I want to do. Burst dmg, slow, attack speed (to proc slow on runners), movement speed etc. Also Frozen Heart has been great against large physical dmg teams. With a rocket punch every 3 seconds you can lock some heroes out.
 

Overswarm

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I'm wondering what to do about runes myself.

In all actuality, there are only three rune types that help at all in any way shape or form:

Cooldown reduction

critical hit chance

critical hit damage

mana regen COULD help, but it isn't enough to say "I don't need a mana regen item", and the golem exists. So you'd have to get one anyway, and with a chalice you don't need mana regen buffs... so mana regen is out.


Crit hit chance / damage are good because you can buff them in-game. You add more damage, have infinity edge, etc., you do more damage. It's more random, but this also helps it a bit. Lots of people freak out after getting hit with a critical.

Cooldown reduction is the best for most characters. I recently played against an Ashe that would throw out more crystal arrows than I've ever seen. Nothing but cooldown reduction runes. For characters like gangplank, cho'goth, and the like... it's uber.
 

SamuraiPanda

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I have an incomplete page that has CD reduction for Glyphs, HP regen (to help early game since its a bit of a problem for my current Blitz builds) for Seals, and CD reduction Quintessances.

I haven't noticed a difference whatsoever. Given, I've only played 1 game thus far, but honestly I don't think runes will help all that much unless you just stack a single attribute. And like you said, only those 3 are even worth getting for long term in-game value. Then if you consider different champions, from a financial (meaning IP) standpoint, just getting a full CD page would be more beneficial than anything else, since it helps for every champion and helps throughout the game. So far, I'm vastly unimpressed and not very pleased with the rune system.

*sigh* One way or another, I'm not happy with how runes are working, and I'm definitely not happy with Riot's pricing models. I've played this game for a whopping 93 hours (assuming all the games I play are 45 minutes, which is quite generous). What do I have to show for it once the store was finally released? Janna and half a rune page. Thats IT. I ran out of IP. How absolutely ridiculous is that? Best part about that is I forgot to buy Blitz, so if I don't have enough IP by the time next week's rotation is over, I'ma have to buy him for ~$10. Yay.

Riot ****ed up. As more patches and content is released, I find it more and more difficult to trust Riot and support them. Their priorities are all out of wack, and they seem completely out of touch with their main userbase. I'm severely disappointed, but I haven't given up hope that they can eventually get their act together.
 

Airborne

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I'm wondering what to do about runes myself.

In all actuality, there are only three rune types that help at all in any way shape or form:

Cooldown reduction

critical hit chance

critical hit damage

mana regen COULD help, but it isn't enough to say "I don't need a mana regen item", and the golem exists. So you'd have to get one anyway, and with a chalice you don't need mana regen buffs... so mana regen is out.


Crit hit chance / damage are good because you can buff them in-game. You add more damage, have infinity edge, etc., you do more damage. It's more random, but this also helps it a bit. Lots of people freak out after getting hit with a critical.

Cooldown reduction is the best for most characters. I recently played against an Ashe that would throw out more crystal arrows than I've ever seen. Nothing but cooldown reduction runes. For characters like gangplank, cho'goth, and the like... it's uber.
mana regen is vital for supports (and tanks since they have very little mana to begin with, and their stuns and things cost a great amount of mana at lower levels); you talk like carries are the only thing needed for a team-based game.

and yes, cd reduction is something that never existed until this game, so i like it. =P

edit: oh, and the thing that pisses me off the most about LoL is the skill tree and runes; it gives veteran players an unfair advantage against someone that's barely played, yet was a top-level player in DotA leagues.
 

AvariceX

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Ok I missed a bunch of stuff in the couple of days I was gone so here are my thoughts in a nutshell on all the recent topics:

-Warwick is absolutely terrible. Only time I would ever want to see him on my team is for 2-man level 1 dragon (which as far as I know only myself and Rakarth know how to do).

-Runes aren't supposed to give a large advantage; they're supposed to give an edge. It's a reward for playing, but it doesn't completely overpower the newer players.

-Some runesets are obviously much better than others. +stat/level is better than +stat (except +crit because it's bugged right now). The reason for this is that endgame is when those stats matter, not early game; all +stat/level runes exceed the fixed +stat runes between levels 5 and 7 as far as I know (again, except crit) and you shouldn't be too worried about the trivial stat difference before then anyway.

-Focus on one stat with your runes. I am using a full Force rune page for my Kassadin right now (even though reds and yellows are only about 1/3 as effective as blues for +AP). This gives me +85 AP at level 18, and that is definitely noticeable.

-There's a group of HoN players at my college who I socialize with almost daily and all I ever hear from them about HoN is how the developers are stupid and don't know how to balance a game. "Every time a new hero comes out there's a new busted ****ing mechanic" - a HoN player. Speaking as someone who played DotA extensively and was going to join CAL (but my team went back to playing WoW because they're a bunch of cancers) and later was about to join IHL (but the wc3 patch that made the game not require a disc broke my game and I didn't have the disc anymore right after I applied to IHL and was told I would almost certainly get in).... I'll stick to LoL over HoN.

-If you plan on unlocking more than 1 legendary hero just get the hero bundle, it saves you like $15 in the end.

-Heroes are indeed overpriced though. If not buying the bundle make sure you look at the difference between RP and IP costs; Gangplank and Corki both cost 975 RP, but GP costs 3150 IP and Corki costs 6300 IP, it should be pretty clear which one is ripping you off.

-CD reduction runes are crap except on heroes who absolutely rely on CD reduction. CD reduction cap is 40% and you can get that with masteries + a Frozen Heart.

-Best runes completely depends on champions... pirate should stack as much +crit damage % as possible (I'm expecting to see a ton of whining on LoL forums soon from everyone who wasn't around pre-reset for the days of 400 damage parrrley crits at level 3).

-Regen runes are a waste imo; you are almost certainly going to buy some kind of regen item in the beginning anyway; it deters people from targeting you early game (they don't know what regen runes you have) and it probably goes into something you are going to make anyway. Better off just buying a couple potions.

-Good runes: +health, +mana, +magic pen, +armor pen, +MR, +AP, +armor... it's up to you to decide what your champion needs most.

-+XP runes can be good if you stack them, especially with Zilean on your team since you will vastly out-level your opposition.

-time spend dead reduction runes are horrible unless you're really bad (same with the good hands mastery). First of all you have no idea how much you're going to die unless you die a lot and even then the amount reduced is trivial; it won't stop the enemy team from pushing down a tower/inhib when they have a 5v4 advantage. Most importantly though; a better solution is to stop being bad and learn not to die :)

-Back when we had full rune pages before the pre-season reset everyone was stacking +MR, +Health, and +Crit damage; just to give an idea of the former metagame which already toyed around with runes.
 

Roneblaster

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HoN sucks

I didn't know this game was free. ****.
DLing it now.
My name will be Reneblade or I wont play.

edit

its just a beta? ahhhhh
 

Airborne

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-There's a group of HoN players at my college who I socialize with almost daily and all I ever hear from them about HoN is how the developers are stupid and don't know how to balance a game. "Every time a new hero comes out there's a new busted ****ing mechanic" - a HoN player. Speaking as someone who played DotA extensively and was going to join CAL (but my team went back to playing WoW because they're a bunch of cancers) and later was about to join IHL (but the wc3 patch that made the game not require a disc broke my game and I didn't have the disc anymore right after I applied to IHL and was told I would almost certainly get in).... I'll stick to LoL over HoN.
well, it's a closed beta, first of all... and it's in quite the infancy, seeing that it's only on version 0.1.56. When new things come out, they generally are "OP" or garbage, and so they do this thing called patching, where they fix those problematic mehcanics. Patches come out generally once a week or so. And these new heroes that come out are, most of the time, direct hero ports, with exact damage, durations, cooldowns, etc. Only reason why a hero can be broken in HoN is because it's Maliken or because the development team is obsessed with porting carries over, without porting over the ability to counter them effectively.

But I'm going to give LoL a few more tries, and so far I'm not very pleased with how they are running the whole summoner system thing; neat idea, but it seems like it influences the idea of carrying way too much (seeing as how OS is OBSESSED with this Warwick fellow, who seems to be a Blood Seeker port.) I've always favored playing the support/tank/disable role on a team, so if this game gets too carry based, I'm saying **** it.
 

SamuraiPanda

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its just a beta? ahhhhh
They don't do a very good job of mentioning to people that its NOT in beta anymore. Technically its already launched, although there are enough bugs/missing features to make you think otherwise. They are actively working on it though, and its slowly improving.

And these new heroes that come out are, most of the time, direct hero ports, with exact damage, durations, cooldowns, etc.
Thats the exact reason why HoN isn't nearly as good as LoL in my opinion. I think porting DotA exactly as it was is a garbage idea. I don't believe the DotA formula is strong enough to stand on its own as an independent game, and why would they not want to make changes to the game when they develop their own engine? I just don't get it.

-CD reduction runes are crap except on heroes who absolutely rely on CD reduction. CD reduction cap is 40% and you can get that with masteries + a Frozen Heart.

-Best runes completely depends on champions... pirate should stack as much +crit damage % as possible (I'm expecting to see a ton of whining on LoL forums soon from everyone who wasn't around pre-reset for the days of 400 damage parrrley crits at level 3).
I wholeheartedly agree that the best rune setups are completely dependent on champions, but you have to look at this first from the standpoint of those with limited IP to spend. What kind of rune book would be best for every champ? Given just how ability-focused LoL is, I would have to argue that CD reduction is the best universal rune page to get. Although once we get into higher levels of play, we'll have to customize rune pages per champion we play or else we'll get slaughtered.

I'm still trying to figure out the optimal rune page for Blitzcrank, but I'm at a loss for what would be best. Once I finish my exam tomorrow I'll be able to spend more time on it though, and I have a few test builds I want to run to see how they work. All I know is that leaguecraft ***** and is possibly the only reason I play LoL now. Its sooo much easier to make builds that way.


EDIT: Btw, does anybody have any idea why it takes Riot to so long to do things that seem like they'd be retardedly easy/basic to put in? Blind picks can't be THAT hard, Zileas said it'll take them a MONTH to implement reduced IP for surrenders (thus lowering minimum surrender time to 15min), and their forum is primitive beyond belief. SWF and LoL both run on vBulletin, and it takes our admins a few minutes to implement features that the LoL boards have never had. Do they seriously only have like 5 people working for them?
 

AvariceX

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This game isn't carry based enough. Loosely citing a recent post from Zileas:

"We want this game to be 50% individual, 50% team, when in reality right now it's about 30% individual".

The high-end metagame right now revolves around running around in 4 to 5-man ganksquads for 60% of the game. AoE combos are more powerful right now than they were in 5.84 DotA. No matter how good you are at this game, you simply can't carry a team of idiots. Hell, you can't carry a team with one idiot.

edit: Also the carries in this game are squishy beyond belief. They have like 1100 hp at the level cap unless you spend gold on +hp, and if you do too much of that then you aren't a carry anymore because you won't do any damage.

edit2: Going along with what SP said about HoN; why wouldn't I just play DotA?
 

Airborne

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This game isn't carry based enough. Loosely citing a recent post from Zileas:

"We want this game to be 50% individual, 50% team, when in reality right now it's about 30% individual".

The high-end metagame right now revolves around running around in 4 to 5-man ganksquads for 60% of the game. AoE combos are more powerful right now than they were in 5.84 DotA. No matter how good you are at this game, you simply can't carry a team of idiots. Hell, you can't carry a team with one idiot.

edit: Also the carries in this game are squishy beyond belief. They have like 1100 hp at the level cap unless you spend gold on +hp, and if you do too much of that then you aren't a carry anymore because you won't do any damage.

edit2: Going along with what SP said about HoN; why wouldn't I just play DotA?
trying to get back into DotA right now, actually, just waiting on my friends that are better at it to be able to play at a time that i'm available... though i've been waiting for well over a month for them to be able to.... and lemme play some in-houses with y'all so i can see how it requires as much teamwork as DotA, or the L4D series even.
 

AvariceX

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In-houses aren't really happening right now since everyone is in a frenzy for influence points now that the store is out. Even if we all got together we probably wouldn't find a team to play against.

I can explain some things that contribute to the teamwork aspect though;
-Summoner spells, particularly heal and teleport. Heal can be used as a surprise counter-gank or just to give your team a little more lasting power for a push. Teleport is essentially a free boots of travel; having that kind of mobility makes you much more able to respond to your team's needs, and also forces the other team to be aware of nearby creeps that someone could teleport to to assist in a team fight.

-As mentioned above, carries are squishy as hell. Unless completely stacked, a carry will need help ganking someone to ensure they don't get killed as soon as someone else shows up to help their target.

-The neutral creeps provide game-altering buffs, and this means you need to be aware of when they are spawning and you need to be able to deny the enemy team their neutral creeps. In DotA they were just an alternate way of getting gold, in LoL they can turn the tide of a fight.

-Nashor (Roshan) provides a superpowered version of the creep buffs to your whole team, meaning he is vastly more important in this game, and being able to ambush the enemy team at him or steal the kill will tip the scales of the game.

-Everyone has a bluepill; an 8 second channeled spell that returns them to their shop but is interrupted by any damage. This makes it much harder to trap someone at low health at their tower and wait for them to come out to gank them because they can just bluepill; it means that you need to know you can get a kill before you commit to it and waste your hp/mana/cooldowns, and usually that requires teamwork.

-Brush scattered around the map that you can hide in allows for more dynamic retreating, juking, baiting, ganking, and even 'mindgames' (for instance you could let your opponent see you enter the brush to make him wary of a gank and sit back instead of last-hitting creeps even though no gank is coming). There's even a convenient wall of brush in front of Nashor's area which is often used as bait for 5-man ganks; as soon as all 5 are missing someone usually gets the idea to check Nashor, and if they go alone they die.

-There are almost no entirely passive ranked abilities in this game, and no character has more than 1 passive (although every character has an additional passive buff that is not included in their 4 ranked skills) allowing for far more ability combinations between different heroes. None of that "disabler stuns them then N'aix presses 'R' and eats them; rinse, repeat".
 
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