Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote Kantrip!

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

EBWOP: Lol

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

For the record, I didn't jump last night, so I wasn't targeted with the kill.

 

[Gova]

Tried to protect Rajam last night, couldn't. My power is still missing.

 

[Rajam]

Wait, Raz why did you track Glyph?? He got roleblocked publicly for last Night after not insulting Inferno last Day........ ¿?¿?

 

[Raziek]

Wait, Raz why did you track Glyph?? He got roleblocked publicly for last Night after not insulting Inferno last Day........ ¿?¿?

I'm..... ********. I went to a tournament on the weekend before I submitted my actions and I completely forgot he was roleblocked.

It doesn't matter at this point, but whoops.

 

[Rajam]

 

[Raziek]

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I laughed out loud at the last three posts.

 

[Kantrip]

Tried to protect Rajam last night, couldn't. My power is still missing.

What about your restriction of not being able to hammer?

 

[Kantrip]

I was on Raziek as well. I said "I will be on Gova" in thread for the WIFOM so I could actually protect Raziek. I forgot that Rajam would possibly mimic me and cover someone else so we ended up doubling up on Raziek. That means he was probably the one targeted, especially with Ryker not jumping.

Why didn't you jump Ryker?

 

[Kantrip]

Ryker please take your vote off. I don't know if I still get lynched at L-2 or not.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Why didn't you jump Ryker?

So I could Night Sword Raz. If he's scum, that's a win. If he's town, then I stop having any doubts.

Then I didn't get it, but I was still infatuated with the idea of not jumping since I didn't think scum would target me. It gives me another phase which is fine by me.



So yeah, the kill was not soaked up by me. It was run up against someone else who is not myself. That means Sang or Raz, correct?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

*use Night Sword on Raz.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Unvote .

 

[Kantrip]

If you're so confident that I was scum, why didn't you shoot me? You had the opportunity to kill me and you didn't take it. I'm also assuming that you don't believe Legolas.

So I could Night Sword Raz. If he's scum, that's a win. If he's town, then I stop having any doubts.

Then I didn't get it, but I was still infatuated with the idea of not jumping since I didn't think scum would target me. It gives me another phase which is fine by me.



So yeah, the kill was not soaked up by me. It was run up against someone else who is not myself. That means Sang or Raz, correct?

Correct, and I really doubt it was Sang. No one would be motivated to kill a condemned non-presence.

I am still banking on Inferno for the last scum.

 

[Kantrip]

Insult not being a targeted ability clears up something I was going to bring up: Ryker was targeted with Insult N1 but claims to have jumped. I fully believe he did in fact jump (as my action on him failed), which would of course mean that Insult couldn't have gone through on him as Legolas claimed it did. Legolas was trying to pass off Insult as a pro-town role by saying it was great for finding out if he was redirected or roleblocked with his other ability. Great to hear that clarified as a lie, which means the Insult ability was blatantly anti-town.

But wait, Legolas still used it even AFTER he transferred to Inferno's alignment. His flip made it pretty clear to me that his alignment varies considering he flipped all three, and I think Sang confirmed the changing alignments thing. So WHY did Legolas use a COMPLETELY anti-town ability after converting to Inferno's alignment? Because Inferno is as anti-town as Insult is. Insult's only mechanical aspect is that it can roleblock AND voteblock anyone who fails to do it (as confirmed on Glyph). Other than that, it has no purpose gameplay-wise (Ryker if this is wrong please correct me).

Basically, since Inferno was voteblocked AND Insulted yesterDay, we can conclude with certainty that Legolas did in fact use Dark/Night Sword on him. However, he claimed to have targeted Gova with both these abilities. There are a few possibilities:

1. Redirector is still alive. I find this unlikely because I'm really digging Red Ryu having been the redirector.

2. Gova can redirect things off of him and onto someone else. Possible, but redirecting onto Inferno makes NO sense. What would Gova want to get rid of from himself that he wanted to go to Inferno? Investigative results, probably. I'm not ruling out Gova, so I want him to prove his inability to hammer when we decide on the Day's wagon. While we have the mislynch for it we will verify that Gova is telling the truth.

3. Inferno can lightningrod abilities to himself. I can't see this, to be honest, so I won't even expand on it.

4. THE MOST LIKELY SOLUTION, Legolas lied about targeting Gova and in fact targeted Inferno instead. I believe this option 95% with the rest of the variance being split between the first two options. Legolas's motivation to say he DIDN'T target Inferno would make sense with Inferno being scum. If one of them were to get caught it wouldn't condemn the other since Legolas "targeted Gova and converted to Gova's alignment". However, when Legolas found out that the MOD had made an error and his abilities did in fact go through, he was caught red-handed targeting someone he didn't claim to have targeted. So what did he do when he was forced to out for real? He claimed that his ability somehow went through on Inferno and then went on to try and clear Inferno when he never even had intentions to admit to targeting him.

TL;DR
Legolas lied about his target and got caught doing so, so he went from hiding the evidence to trying to clear Inferno altogether. He continued to use anti-town abilities even AFTER his alleged conversion to Town. The intent does not line up to hide so much of this **** unnecessarily if he REALLY had a town win condition.

In short, I draw the conclusion that Legolas converted to Inferno's alignment: Scum.

 

[Gova]

That's all fine and dandy but according to Sang, she wouldn't know what alignment she is after targeting someone with Dark Sword. It probably worked the same way for Legolas and was just looking out for himself.

 

[Kantrip]

Wait, you don't get told what alignment you convert to? What I got from what Sang said is that she didn't want to use the ability because she wouldn't know what alignment she was getting herself into BEFORE she picked someone.

What does the ability do, exactly? You target someone and switch to their alignment but you have no idea what happened? And you voteblock them (lol@insult being needed to verify your target)?

Like, Legolas said he started without a win condition and then had one sent to him when he converted. While I don't believe that he didn't have a win-con to start... I just...
Huh.

 

[Gova]

Well if you knew the alignment of the person before you targeted him what point is there in using it?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Could certainly be a passive role ability that informs him or just a change of wincon that is unrelated to the ability that Sang would've been alerted to had she used it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Seriously though. This day doesn't end until I've had a chance to either read the game in its entirety or decide that I'm not going to.

 

[Kantrip]

Well if you knew the alignment of the person before you targeted him what point is there in using it?

That's why Sang chose not to use it. Because she didn't want to risk changing alignments. At least, that's what I got out of what she said. Maybe she should clarify what she was told about the ability.

The ability really doesn't make sense from a balance perspective. Imagine if Legolas picked scum at first, found out who they were, and then switched over to town and got the scum lynched? He DEFINITELY doesn't get access to the quicktopic for sure because of that.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

All he needs is the wincon. He doesn't need the scummates or QT access.

 

[Kantrip]

Okay I'm confusing myself too much. The front and centre of this issue is that Inferno is by no means cleared, and if I'm right then he is looking really scummy to me, and if I'm wrong then he just stays as is. I'm almost certain Legolas would have been told SOME SORT of win-con change, which would signify if he became town or not, and I am heavily favouring NOT.

I'll outline my thoughts and then give this a rest because my damn essay is overdue for english and I shouldn't be on here.

Rajam - Strongest town read.

Ryker - I am becoming increasingly paranoid of Ryker's presence in end-game, and this whole "I didn't Jump so I have it toMorrow" worries me in the way that it may be a way to make his being alive look more natural. I don't want another Fire and Lightning Xonar incident. Still up at the top end of my townie list, this is just paranoia (and mostly a cushion for if I get embarrassed in endgame by Rykerscum).

Raziek - His abilities are pretty clearly the real deal. His play doesn't win me over but I can't see him being scum.

Glyph - I think everything looks really townie from Glyph to me, but there are really messed up things with his role. He's like the opposite of Raziek in this regard.

Gova - I'll feel better once he shows us that he gets a mod vote when he tries to hammer and the hammer fails. That's why I want to give Gova the hammer of whatever lynch we do to make sure it doesn't work. Then he'll be in the town boat.

Inferno - Scum.



Sang - Condemned by Split Punch, not even a presence in the game at this point.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Gova, it just dawned on me that you likely don't have your ability thanks to yours truly. While you may have been immune to the roleblock, I wouldn't be surprised if the 'they lose their first active ability' thing still got you.

Ryker, same ****'s probably on you too.

 

[Kantrip]

Gova, it just dawned on me that you likely don't have your ability thanks to yours truly. While you may have been immune to the roleblock, I wouldn't be surprised if the 'they lose their first active ability' thing still got you.

Ryker, same ****'s probably on you too.

I don't recall you mentioning this **** before.

So your abilities are "take away their active ability" and "take away their passive ability'? Seriously?

...

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Its literally word for word in my claim if you look back at it, and that plus a roleblock, yeah.

 

[Kantrip]

Does that... affect factional Night Kills?

 

[Kantrip]

Oh wait no that part I remember. Never mind.

 

[Gova]

Gova, it just dawned on me that you likely don't have your ability thanks to yours truly. While you may have been immune to the roleblock, I wouldn't be surprised if the 'they lose their first active ability' thing still got you.

Ryker, same ****'s probably on you too.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Gova, it just dawned on me that you likely don't have your ability thanks to yours truly. While you may have been immune to the roleblock, I wouldn't be surprised if the 'they lose their first active ability' thing still got you.

Ryker, same ****'s probably on you too.

I used a night action the night you targeted me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I have to read this game.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

That's why Sang chose not to use it. Because she didn't want to risk changing alignments. At least, that's what I got out of what she said. Maybe she should clarify what she was told about the ability.

What I said was all I was told about the ability. There's no way I can clarify it more than just quoting what OS sent me and I'm not going to do that. I didn't use it because I wouldn't have been told of my alignment after the action went through. I didn't really care about changing alignments because I'm dying anyways and, like I told Glyph, it didn't occur to me that I would actually be scum at that point. You target a person, that person gets voteblocked, and your alignment changes to that of the person you targeted.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Gova - I'll feel better once he shows us that he gets a mod vote when he tries to hammer and the hammer fails. That's why I want to give Gova the hammer of whatever lynch we do to make sure it doesn't work. Then he'll be in the town boat.

Okay, you're going to have to explain this one to me. I don't understand this at all. You don't trust him because you can't confirm that he can't hammer, and you want a mod vote on him to make sure?

Sang - Condemned by Split Punch, not even a presence in the game at this point.

Yeah, sorry. I've been busy. I can't re-read anything at this point and that's the only way I'll actually be able to do anything productive. I'll try to do so before toNight.

 

[Inferno3044]

Ryker, where's your head at right now? Are we eventually gonna PoE this or do you think that is a bad idea?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I decline to answer.

 

[Kantrip]

Okay, you're going to have to explain this one to me. I don't understand this at all. You don't trust him because you can't confirm that he can't hammer, and you want a mod vote on him to make sure?

Punishment for a Priest trying to hammer is that it fails and he gets a modvote. The modvote and failed hammer would help verify the role.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

So, Inferno, what did you do last night?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I'm really regretting not insulting someone last night right now since I'm pretty much just a spectator who can also post in the thread at this point.