Gen 6 Pokemon will be out BEFORE Smash 4...

[Diddy Kong]

He might've decided the pool of characters they'd work with in 05, but made the final decision perhaps in 07? A lot of characters could've already been finished, so they had to drop unfinished characters in favor for Sonic and the like I guess.

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

Returning:
Pikachu- Obviously.

Jigglypuff- I believe they could just port her brawl data over. Graphically I don't think they'll update her (graphically... I doubt ssb4 will be all that more high def...so unless there is some new system/battle damage I have a feeling there will be some ported over characters), moveset... they'll probably keep the same.

Pokemon trainer- Doubt they'll replace. Popular pokemon, and with a decent variety. Charizard being a game mascot and still the only starter that can fly. Ivysaur... well most of the grass starters walk on four legs and are kinda similar....Chikorita line, turtwig line...yeah. Squirtle- one of the three original starters.

Lucario- To me the most likely to get axed/replaced but I doubt it.

Mewtwo- Returns. Popular, and supposedly was in development for brawl.

Possible new reps:
Plusle&minum- Depending on if they were actually in development... and if so how far they were in development I think decides their inclusion.

New pokemon trainer- Don't really see happening. Unless a new mechanic is introduced. Even so don't think they'll do another starter trio. Would be neat to see every gen represented, but would get a bit repetitive.

Zoroark- The most possible out of gen 5. Have only seen bits of the movie... I don't think ended up being nearly as popular as lucario... but who knows.

Gen 6 pokemon- Not much to say here, besides that I think it has a higher chance than gen 5 pokemon.

Other pokemon I think have a shot:

Meowth- Rumored to have been considered since the first game. Pokeball pokemon in original, trophy in melee, and back to being a pokeball pokemon in brawl. Still a main character in the anime, recognizable, and plays up the whole cat and mouse rivalry with pikachu.

Eevee- I can see happening, arguably the most popular pokemon not in the game. Sells a crap ton of merchandise in japan along with its evolutions. Whenever A new game comes out, everyone is speculating on new eevee evolutions.

How it could work: Same kind of set up as Pokemon trainer, with eevee, jolteon, flareon, vaporeon. Possible dlc, or future smash games they could include further evolutions.

Other option: Like reds eevee in the pokemon adventures manga it could change into vaporeon, jolteon, or flareon on will due to team rocket experimenting on it.

 

[SmashChu]

All I'm saying is that the roster wasn't in its "final complete" form until 2007.
Sakurai might've decided on his original definitive roster in 05, but it obviously changed.

Yeah, because of Sonic which is a unique situation. This doesn't change the fact that the roster was decided in 2005 before the first trailer. One change doesn't validate that claim.

 

[SmashShadow]

Anybody else think the last of the Legendary trio(like they always have) will be some kind of snake Pokemon. We have X and Y so there's probably gonna be a Z and a Snake is the best fit for that letter. The Nídhöggr is the most famous serpent in Norse mythology that gnaws at the roots of Yggdrasill(World Tree).

If you look at the top we have the bird which could be Yveltal and the deer which could be Xerneas. Of course this is just speculation.

 

[Opossum]

At least then we'd get the first non-Arceus Poison legendary.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Maybe the anti-Arceus? Seeing as Arceus is Poke-God apperantly, a serpent could easily be the Poke-Devil. Would probably be Dark and Poison though.

 

[SmashShadow]

Dragon/Poison would be an awesome combo to see.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh yeah Dragons... Well, that could work to.

 

[peeup]

Poison Dark with levitate.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

IDK, there is also a squirrel on that tree. And a ram.

It very well could be one of those

Or a sheep-ram hybrid

 

[Metal Overlord]

Lastly, we play as characters, not "Generations" in Smash Bros.

I swear to God, I cannot agree with this one statement any more than I already do

 

[TheCreator]

Maybe the anti-Arceus? Seeing as Arceus is Poke-God apperantly, a serpent could easily be the Poke-Devil. Would probably be Dark and Poison though.

I believe giratina was the poke-devil. After all, he supposedly stands for 666.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Giratina could be possible yes. Never really liked the thing, so I didn't pay attention to it (didn't got one in Diamond for example) but I have noticed it has a serpent form. Not sure about it being the Poke-Devil though. Still, every animal or thing was probably already done with Pokemon. With a few exceptions perhaps.

 

[TheCreator]

http://kotaku.com/5975396/this-nerdy-explanation-for-pokmon-xy-might-blow-your-mind#13588239541433&{"type":"iframeUpdated","height":1855}

Posting again because nobody noticed the first time

 

[Johnknight1]

I swear to God, I cannot agree with this one statement any more than I already do

My main man Metal gets it; we want to play as characters that make us wanna play, not characters that are just there because they're from this series.

Anyways, I wouldn't bet that a member of a trio of legendary Pokémon will be playable. If anything, it will be a standalone legendary or semi-legendary Pokémon that becomes extremely popular (including as a potential smash bros playable character), like Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Lucario.

 

[TheCreator]

It's the Pokemon company's WANT for a pokemon to be popular that gets ten in, not them being popular already and having a large fan base. Like I said in a different thread. The Pokemon Company pretty much ordered him to have lucario in the game because, he was their market at the time. DPP was currently in business, and "Lucario and the secret of Mew" had just come out or was in production. Which just so happened to star the only lucario that could talk and had a very firm connection with aura. The one we see in the game.

 

[---]

Lastly, we play as characters, not "Generations" in Smash Bros.

Johnknight gets it.

It's the Pokemon company's WANT for a pokemon to be popular that gets ten in, not them being popular already and having a large fan base. Like I said in a different thread. The Pokemon Company pretty much ordered him to have lucario in the game because, he was their market at the time.

Link please. Thank You.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Pikachu vs Charizard vs Blastoise vs Mewtwo.

Best thing ever man.

 

[TheCreator]

Trying hard to find it. It was an old interview and I'm on mobile, so it's kind of hard. But I remember him saying that the Pokemon company was "hard to work with".

 

[N3ON]

Trying hard to find it. It was an old interview and I'm on mobile, so it's kind of hard. But I remember him saying that the Pokemon company was "hard to work with".

That hardly means they "ordered" Lucario to be included. Lucario was more just a promotional tool, he was also the most popular Pokemon requested for Brawl. The Pokemon company might be hard to work with, but that's all we concretely know. As far as we know, Sakurai has made all the Pokemon roster decisions with little to no actual imput from Game Freak/Pokemon Company. Since he chose Pikachu and Jiggs for 64, Mewtwo and Pichu (he chose Pichu, GF/PKMN Company didn't request a 2nd gen) in Melee, and Lucario had quite a lot of popularity and demand for Brawl, it would also be a fair conclusion to make that he has never been "ordered" to include any particular Pokemon character, he just makes choices that coincide well with Game Freak's wishes. Game Freak probably just wants their Pokemon represented a certain way, there's nothing to say they forced Lucario into the roster, anything more is an assumption.

 

[TheCreator]

That hardly means they "ordered" Lucario to be included. Lucario was more just a promotional tool, he was also the most popular Pokemon requested for Brawl. The Pokemon company might be hard to work with, but that's all we concretely know. As far as we know, Sakurai has made all the Pokemon roster decisions with little to no actual imput from Game Freak/Pokemon Company. Since he chose Pikachu and Jiggs for 64, Mewtwo and Pichu (he chose Pichu, GF/PKMN Company didn't request a 2nd gen) in Melee, and Lucario had quite a lot of popularity and demand for Brawl, it would also be a fair conclusion to Umake that he has never been "ordered" to include any particular Pokemon character, he just makes choices that coincide well with Game Freak's wishes. Game Freak probably just wants their Pokemon represented a certain way, there's nothing to say they forced Lucario into the roster, anything more is an assumption.

While I was going on an implication, it is true that Sakurai heavily favorites the first gen and this is commonly know. Given that, why would he choose to work on lucario instead of mewtwo? Of course Im going on implication again.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai wanted to fit more Newcomers in.
This is why PT and Lucario were higher priority than Jigglypuff and Mewtwo.
Pikachu however, is top priority for Pokemon.

 

[Chepe]

Trying hard to find it. It was an old interview and I'm on mobile, so it's kind of hard. But I remember him saying that the Pokemon company was "hard to work with".

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/5437/features/an-audience-with-masahiro-sakurai/?page=2

At the bottom of the page:
"I also have to think about if the character pulls the gameplay in a direction I don't want it to go in," he agrees "and, of course, whether there are any IP issues to get over and if it'd be too hard to get that particular fighter in the game. Dealing with the Pokémon Company, especially, is quite difficult. They have a lot of details that need to be just right before they'll agree to anything."

This is really the main reason why a Gen VI Pokemon would find itself on the Smash 4 roster. It would have been The Pokemon Company who pushed for it.

 

[TheCreator]

Theeeeeere it is

 

[splat]

"I also have to think about if the character pulls the gameplay in a direction I don't want it to go in," he agrees "and, of course, whether there are any IP issues to get over and if it'd be too hard to get that particular fighter in the game. Dealing with the Pokémon Company, especially, is quite difficult. They have a lot of details that need to be just right before they'll agree to anything."

This is really the main reason why a Gen VI Pokemon would find itself on the Smash 4 roster. It would have been The Pokemon Company who pushed for it.

This is probably the main reason why Lucario had such ****ty recolors, too.

 

[Deleted member]

It may be the reason why all the Pokemon characters don't have the same amount of colors as the others.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Grey Lucario is kinda sexy however.

 

[Johnknight1]

Johnknight gets it.

Triple Dash gots it!

The Pokemon Company pretty much ordered him to have lucario in the game because

No, Sakurai ran the show in Brawl, because:
1. He was an independent contractor. He still kinda is, seeing as how Sora Ltd was entirely bought out and closed by Nintendo, although it was only Sakurai, his assistant, and independently game-to-game hired worked. Now he's basically just a de facto part of Nintendo, and he does whatever he wants to, because he brings Nintendo mad money.
2. He had his own, one-time (rented?) studio with a one-time team made of of 4 companies, the primary of which wasn't even partially owned by Nintendo (Game Arts & Sora).
3. Sakurai can say no, and can go directly to Iwata.
4. The Pokémon Company, like the Zelda team, probably only made suggestions, based on circumstantial evidence. They certainly suggested Lucario (who was mega-popular, and Sakurai seems to like), but I doubt they suggested that Mewtwo shouldn't return, or that Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard should be newcomers to the series.
5. Lucario was easily the most suggested new Pokémon for Brawl.
6. After the first Brawl trailer, Lucario was easily one of the 4 most suggested Nintendo-owned characters, along with Diddy Kong, King Dedede, and Ike.

 

[---]

At the bottom of the page:
"I also have to think about if the character pulls the gameplay in a direction I don't want it to go in," he agrees "and, of course, whether there are any IP issues to get over and if it'd be too hard to get that particular fighter in the game. Dealing with the Pokémon Company, especially, is quite difficult. They have a lot of details that need to be just right before they'll agree to anything."

This is really the main reason why a Gen VI Pokemon would find itself on the Smash 4 roster. It would have been The Pokemon Company who pushed for it.

So what does this have to do with them pushing for anything? All companies want to make sure details are handled right, and given the amount of Pokemon content in Smash games it kinda makes sense that I'd be the most difficult. Heck with the sheer amount of Pokemon content in the Smash games it's a miracle the games is made to begin with (64 had more Pokemon representation than any other series, Melee, which was developed in just barely a year, featured about 90% of the Pokemon at the time in the game). Pokemon is just like any other company Sakurai goes to ask, it's just the amount Sakurai asks for is the problem.

It's a much better bet that it's handled in the same way Fire Emblem is handled, which is Sakurai comes in with a bunch of ideas to suggest and get for approval (Roy), or heck Sakurai walks in and asks their opinion directly because he can't think of anything (Ike). Overall there is no real proof that promotion is a goal of Sakurai or the companies he works with at all.


As for Lucario himself (I'm not trying to aim this at anyone in particular), he debuted in early '05, heck if you check the dates he debuted before both Lucas and Ike. His movie came out 4 months before development of the game started, and well over a year before the roster (bar Sonic) was finalized. It's rather obvious Lucario wasn't put in to promote anything, heck by the time the game came out we were well into Gen 4 already, a promotion would have meant nothing. Why is it hard for people to understand that Lucario is a popular and well received Pokemon?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

They probably never used a Lucario on a team.

You can find Riolu's at the farm area in Black and White 2

 

[TheCreator]

Because its all about sales. I think Lucario got in because he was popular yes. But I think that's why the Pokemon company had him put in.

Besides, Sakurai is a gen 1 fanboy. If not for outside forces we'd probably have nothing but gen 1 Pokemon.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Besides, Sakurai is a gen 1 fanboy. If not for outside forces we'd probably have nothing but gen 1 Pokemon.

Source? Never heard this before.

 

[N3ON]

Besides, Sakurai is a gen 1 fanboy. If not for outside forces we'd probably have nothing but gen 1 Pokemon.

Disregarding Lucario completely (because we don't really have full information on the details behind his inclusion), Sakurai was the one to choose Pichu, not Game Freak. If Sakurai was a true Gen 1 fanboy, he would've chosen Raichu instead. He just adds characters based on their importance, popularity, and impact within the series, and Gen 1 Pokemon, on average, clearly have the most, which is why we primarily get them.

 

[TheCreator]

I can't find any articles on my phone swampasaur. And how do you know he chose pichu? Pichu was pretty poster to gen 2. But I could understand if he DID choose pichu, because he would have known him to be a quick pikachu clone.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Blastoise vs Charizard vs Pikachu vs Mewtwo.

Can't think of anything more epic.

 

[N3ON]

I can't find any articles on my phone swampasaur. And how do you know he chose pichu? Pichu was pretty poster to gen 2. But I could understand if he DID choose pichu, because he would have known him to be a quick pikachu clone.

Yeah, he partly chose Pichu because he was promoted among the 2nd gen and solely for clone purposes, but it was Sakurai who chose him, as far as we know Game Freak didn't even suggest a 2nd gen.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37915502&postcount=7506

• Sakurai considered adding a character from Pokémon Gold/Silver during planning, but none of the popular options were feasible.
• He thought about having a trainer summon the second generation starters, but there wasn't time/resources for such a labor-intensive character.
• Pichu was promoted as the main Pokémon from those games, but it would have been too similar to Pikachu, so Sakurai passed on it.
• Thinking back to Pichu is partly what made Sakurai want to include clones.
• Clones were not included in Melee's planning documents.
• Sakurai had a hard time deciding on all of the clones, though some choices came easy like Pichu and Young Link.

 

[Banjodorf]

^^

It honestly would've been fascinating to see him originally do PT in Melee, using Chika, Croconaw and Typhlosion or something. That actually sounds ridiculously cool. Alas!

On the topic of Gen 6; considering all the character planning for Brawl sans Sonic was done by the end of 2006, the same year as Brawl's announcement, I don't expct a 6th Gen rep, or if there is one, it's going to be a last-minute addition. Like Sonic!

I *do* expect 6th Gen Pokeball Pokemon though!

 

[---]

@N3ON: Technically that source hasn't been thoroughly proven so take it with a grain of salt.

Because its all about sales. I think Lucario got in because he was popular yes. But I think that's why the Pokemon company had him put in.

Well yeah, like Mario, he's a character people liked and wanted to play as. Sales are important (heck that's why the game was made to begin with), however, there's a difference between being greedy and taking pride in your work (just read some of the old Sakurai interviews, especially the one about Roy). And as previously stated, the role of the Pokemon Company is unknown at this point outside of Sakurai having to ask them for permission. Yes it's difficult working with them, as for the reasons behind it, we don't know and cannot take assumptions as fact.

Besides, Sakurai is a gen 1 fanboy. If not for outside forces we'd probably have nothing but gen 1 Pokemon.

Source please.

 

[TheCreator]

I already said I can't find the article. Why would I lie though?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I already said I can't find the article. Why would I lie though?

Not saying you're lying. We just want to double check.