That is a bit of an overgeneralisation. Just like how you feel insulted when the "Official SSB4 Discussion Thread" is overgeneralised as being an amateur yes-man concert, it's not very pleasant to have MYM overgeneralised as being a circlejerk of cloud-cuckoo-landers
Er, that is not what I said. I said that they make movesets that you wouldn't get in Smash Brothers because they are far more complex and tend to have things that a character we actually have would do.
Each move has a lot of depth in the MYM, people pretty much dedicate a paragraph or two for each one, while in actuality, the moves characters get don't really have too much to say about them. I couldn't describe Mario's special moves like that without basically repeating myself.
I've watch MYM and seen the sets, I also see sets that SSB4 speculators makes, I also see the sets that are actually in the games. There are differences, very, very, obvious differences.
In regards to Link, Toon Link and Zelda, they don't have the same feel as Ganondorf... because they are protagonists.
And not because they fundamentally work different? I've never heard anyone feel that because Ghirahim is not like Ganondorf, he shouldn't be in and would have a negative impact.
Though what I've said above is enough to refute that, just look at D3 and Meta. They are both antagonists... they don't seem similar at all. One is much more sinister and deadly while the other seems rather cuddly and lazy.
It's the reason why Mario isn't randomly breathing fire and performing hip drops and suicide KOing the opponent.
Actually, we don't Mario doing that because he
can't do that.
To include a series antagonist, they need to feel fundamentally different to play when compared to the series protagonist. This is why Ganondorf DOESN'T use his magic and swords, even in spite of having every reason in the world to do so
I'm so glad you know what is going on in Sakurai's head. .__. Why do all of these people pretend that their opinion is correct? Learn some humility people. D:
It doesn't matter what Ghirahim actually did in the game. It's all about characterization. Copypasting only things they actually did is a bad idea with movesetting. You need to capture the essence of the character, what they would do in Smash Bros, and make unique actions. Groose has the potential to do amazing counters, and that's what matters. Groose could also have a defensive buff. If he is flailing, or acting goofy, his theme would kick in, overwriting the background music, and give him superarmor/other buffs. He has the potential for that. Using a sword isn't new. Groose could use various forms of unarmed combat. And Groose can in fact create walls - how do you think he kept Link's Loftwing penned up? He made a plank wall.
Your thinking is way too linear with this, which is surprising because with the character you support you are very incredibly liberal in thinking. I didn't copypaste exactly what Ghirahim has done, I never said that, I have a lot of moves inspired from what he does, you know, basically what every character does in Smash that is actually in. The fact that Groose actually has nothing to draw from isn't actually a plus, it is widely considered a negative, and he doesn't even have the plus of having huge potential of having original moves because he is similar to a boring human, whereas you could actually design Ghirahim ignoring every type of attack he has done in the game and simply give him dark magic, and it wouldn't even be inappropriate.
Again, I can tell you are from the MYM thread without even having to go and confirm it, overwriting the music in the background is a FS-like move, the only time where over the top things are justified, but you can only have one. Sadly just about everything Groose related would work as an assist trophy, at best. Groose faces the problem of not being justifiable as a character in a franchise that isn't too popular with the idea of receiving a newcomer. There is too much for Groose to handle to get in, it isn't going to happen. I'm not saying Ghirahim will happen, but I do believe there is an actual chance in comparison to Groose. It's sad to have the character you are passionate about not have a chance, but you will accept it all in due time.
As for sword-wielding not being new, it is actually more original than using fists, and no one uses two swords, and no one uses a zweihander. Groose can bring nothing new and has to use what a lot of others do.
As for him making walls, he has to build them, he can't summon them. Isn't that obvious? Though that is only further proof that you are grasping for straws, since he did that in one small part in the game.
No, he hasn't. Quit acting smug like you've already won the debate when you haven't.
Just because you want to believe in Groose doesn't mean that I haven't beaten you in this debate. You can't say, "Oh, you haven't convinced me, so you certainly haven't shown a better argument!" Surely you know this.
Summons are not new in Smash Bros. King Dedede can do it. Why not Groose?
Because pulling his buddies out of his pocket doesn't work as well as King Dedede pulling out Doos and Dees. If it involves him calling them in on there Loftwings, how can you not see that that is like an assist trophy or a Final Smash? Do you know what those two things are and what they are like?
Not the way it could be implemented would be generic. Imagine an intimidation aura. Anyone in front of him cowers or is pushed back based on how much damage/combos/offense he can keep up. It increases as your offense increases, giving you "confidence", but when you blunder, like try to hit a dodging enemy then get hit in ending lag, you lose confidence and intimidation and the aura disappears.
It doesn't seem like a move, more like a passive ability like Lucario has. Though the latter has that exclusively, intimidating seems like a thing that pretty much every character could have.
Femme, pseudo-gay antagonists will not be as popular with the neckbeards that play Smash as someone as awesome as Groose. Just ask MasterWarlord. And he is clearly campy, not just androgynous. Envy from FMA is androgynous, but not campy. Ghirahim is campy. See the difference?
Yeah, well like, that is your opinion, man.
O_O;
More attention and detail? How many games has Ghirahim been in? One? How many has Vaati and Ganon been in? Several. The entire ****ing canon is based around Ganon. Your first point is a flat out lie. You're grasping at straws here. Ghirahim will never return. NEVER. This is a fact.
Ganondorf is never given much of a personality, and the games he is in he rarely appears. So no, that is not a lie. Sorry, everyone will agree that Ganondorf is a generic bad guy.
You are the first to think otherwise.
Again, you inflate your opinion as fact. I've only shown that Ghirahim is far more likely to return. And sadly, you haven't even provided a reason why that he will not return. You simply say it. It is unfortunate to take someone so seriously who just says things and feels that their opinion has the ability to alter reality and pierce truth.
Groose is more popular than Ghirahim. Prove me wrong.
Already have, we have resorted to polls and the internet, and Ghirahim won in both. Also, in the two SSB4 character poll we had, Groose was not high in either, whereas Ghirahim was the highest Zelda character in the latter and I believe Vaati was the highest in the former (with Ghirahim the second highest).
Search for Ghirahim. Then search for Groose. Groose has more videos.
Haha I told you I just did! I'll post the exact numbers: 4,970 for Groose, 6,290 for Ghirahim. You lost, it's okay. ^^
Also checked Google, Ghirahim has more results than Groose does, which is pretty predictable, but I just thought I'd also add THAT on top of everything else internet related.
No, that is an antagonist. A rival is someone that starts where the protagonist is, is very similar, is equal in power, and is for the same goal, and is not working for the "big bad". Groose is more of a rival than Ghirahim. He and Link grew up together, have been rivals for Zelda's love, but in the end Link gets the girl and he doesn't.
Your definition of a rival is oddly specific, are you deriving it from the Pokemon games? Anyways, this is semantics, I shouldn't have even entertained this idea of being worthy in a serious discussion to begin with.
Stop being a pompous douche because I questioned Ghirahim being in SSB4.
Oddly enough I've been the only one here to not inflate my opinion and provide thorough reasoning for everything. Am I then a pompous douche, in comparison to the person who is likening their opinion as the same as Sakurai's?
Not that I am thinking you are that, that is a tad rude, I just think you are a fanboy of Groose, which is nothing to be ashamed of.
I am listening to what you are saying. I think what you are saying is wrong. You don't know what "people want". You only know what YOU want.
Interestingly enough I am providing the view of more people, whereas you simply speak for yourself but pretend it is everyone. I've spoken to many people about this, have looked online, and I know that my view is definitely the majority. It's okay to be in the minority, just realize that there is no chance and the idea of Groose being in is just a fancy.
Oh, clearly tumblr was popular when Twilight Princess was released. Silly me. And you're bringing in the DEVIANTART community as support for Ghirahim? The same community dedicated to drawing furry artwork and glazing over homosexual idols like exactly what Ghirahim is?
Oh man, you are hating on two sources of the public that I've added to youtube (that also has more Ghirahim)? Groose is not as popular on either of those, in addition with Facebook, which you have ignored (and is a better judge than those two and I'd perhaps say youtube, which once again, you have lost).
Groose has just as much if not more fans than Ghirahim. Zant was very, very popular when Twilight Princess was released, so much that people were furious when Ganon booted him out of the picture. He was a much better villain than Ganondorf, and in the end he turned out to be another puppet. But unlike the puppet you defend, Ghirahim, he had round personality, whereas Ghirahim is generic flamboyant insane character. Nothing redeemable or likeable about him.
You're doing that thing again where you say things but then stop at the part where you back them up.
Zant did not worship Ganondorf.
Zant called Ganondorf his God. Everyone on the internet also says he worshiped Ganondorf. In fact, the last thing he says is that he will be resurrected infinitely by his God.
The only time he actually had anything against Ganondorf was a "symbollic" moment where you see Zant who is dead snap his neck the moment Ganondorf passes.
Zant was the ultimate Usurper.
Being an usurper doesn't translate as being the ultimate Usurper.
He planned on plunging the land in Twilight so he thought he'd have enough power to destroy Ganon and reign forever.[/QUOTE]
You just made that up dude. o-o
He slaughtered his own people, and had no problem destroying two dimensions for his own sadistic pleasure. He was insane, though, and that part of his personality was sealed within himself. Only when he let it flow freely through him in order to be truly powerful, it consumed and led to his downfall.
Oddly enough he didn't give the player anything about his personality until he started having a temper tantrum in the final encounter (which is basically like the real first one).
Ghirahim is a puppet. A blind follower of his precious master Demise.
Actually he is Demise's Dark Master Sword, the exact opposite of Fi.
He tries to act flamboyant to intimidate, but it just ends up being creepy and disgusting.
Actually he acts aloof because he has pride and likes to pretend he doesn't care and that he is just having fun and messing with you. It is only when his nerves are pulled on too tightly does he show a bottled up rage and bloodlust. The latter part it well, your opinion, don't forget that tidbit.
Though you keep doing that.
Guess what? Acting campy is not a good thing to have for an antagonist. It undermines their role as antagonist. He didn't have any depth. What you saw on the outside was basically all there was to him. Nothing to ponder over, nothing to delve into deep discussion about. Nothing to respect from one side and hate from the other.
Actually there are many debates about his character. For example, does he truly fake his emotions, or are they real? They draw comparisons to Fi who is a humanoid weapon and ask if he is emotional because he is the opposite, or that he is simply evil and that he really is faking the emotions. They also debate as to WHAT exactly he is and what he means. With Zant you can't really do that, which is partly because of his character, but mostly that TP doesn't give him enough attention, which sucks, because Zant seems great as well, I love Zelda characters.
Groose, on the other hand, is hilarious, likeable, and very much memorable. He shows up more than Ghirahim, and has a unique personality. He's the most unique personality Zelda has seen in AGES. In a few years, more people will remember Groose than Ghirahim.
Groose is not the most unique personality. What Groose DOES have is the most character development in the sense that he goes from being a bully to becoming a nice guy and who isn't jealous of Link getting Zelda anymore. Which I do certainly love, it was great.
...Again you pretend to have psychic powers? Da heck?
But you questioned why we had this opinion. I explained why.
Ooooh, that explains a lot. You simply want him in because you like him, so my theory was right. You guys are just Groose fanboys.
It matters because Ganondorf is the "big bad" of the series. If a lower antagonist that's appeared in one game had a more interesting moveset, it'd be a freaking disgrace.
Are you serious with this? Are you
serious?
I'm actually going to stop here, because I am keeping this thread alive, once I go away it will possibly be put to rest due to lack of genuine supporters. The people who have posted here have said they don't see him as a character, even when they like him, as I do as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_cDA_wJz40