Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[G. Vice]

Juicy punishes make Ganon delicious.

But the more I play the more I realize that Kage's style of Ganon is the best for a reason. Having the ability to do tech-savvy, sexy punishes is good, and even mandatory. But I'm finding so many of my kills now resulting from quality spacing and one good read, which ends up with a Dair or reverse uair edgeguard.

Also Ganon mains, I found out something new that may be really useful. I say it's new, I just haven't seen anyone else do it yet. If you're on the ledge, and someone is edgeguarding you and putting pressure for when you waveland on, roll on, or ledgehop and you want to be able to force them back without fully committing to getting on the stage, hit them, or get some type of working room, or you have the need to have a hitbox right behind you(for like a recovering fox/falcon) but you don't want to give up the ledge because they could fake it and land on the ledge and live, or because you're not sure if they can land on the map or not...

if you pull away ever so slightly, and almost frame perfect use the analog up+A for an Uair, you will regrab the ledge after the uair. If you mess up, you'll fall and be forced to up-B to recover. But if you can do it consistently it has invincibility frames right until the end, and has hitboxes in front of and behind it making it a viable option for putting pressure on the opponent defensively, or edgeguarding offensively. Play with it and try it out. I think it's got alot of potential personally.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

oh yeah, ledgehop uair regrab. i could never try that in tourney...don't have the balls LOL. it does seem pretty nifty though.

 

[Magus420]

On the n-air, in v1.1 and later you can get a positive advantage on block if you AC it just right, so if you FJ n-air onto a platform and they shield it's possible to grab them after the n-air before they can grab you.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

oh so we can get the grab like falcon? cool. thanks magus.

 

[Dorsey]

On the n-air, in v1.1 and later you can get a positive advantage on block if you AC it just right, so if you FJ n-air onto a platform and they shield it's possible to grab them after the n-air before they can grab you.

Magus, please explain to me how legit properly spaced(just right, as you just put it) bair AC to pivot grab is with ganon, at low %s obviously, and on what chars.. don't consider the speed of the pivot a factor, being that I do it as quick as possible basically.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

oh, dorsey, are you still coming over here? i just realized that you said something about losing your phone, so it makes sense that you haven't been returning my texts as of late.

 

[Linguini]

Juicy punishes make Ganon delicious.

But the more I play the more I realize that Kage's style of Ganon is the best for a reason.

LOL so untrue

 

[G. Vice]

LOL so untrue

His results speak differently man.

Needless to say, it's not exactly how I play Ganon(sadly) but his strong foundation on the "basics" is what makes him so great. The more I've played, the more I've found that playing flashy is all fine and good until it starts affecting what would work best. However, if you can find the happy medium of efficiency and flash, then it's really fun and rewarding. Sadly not everyone can be as smart of a player as him.

 

[Geenareeno]

I think we should discuss the Marth match-up.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

any time I think about kage being the best ganon, I just think about what shiz did to him. And then I remembe that there are some matchups where his style really won't get it done.

 

[VGmasta]

Falco is a tough matchup in general. I do believe Linguini has the better success ratio above the average Ganon player in the Falco matchup. Although, DaShizWiz is very good overall and has had some experience vs RockCrock's and Linguini's Ganon. That would have to make Shiz one of the toughest (if not the toughest) Falcos to take down as Ganondorf.

I'm also on board with Geenareeno. I need to learn the Marth matchup as Ganon a bit better.

 

[G. Vice]

any time I think about kage being the best ganon, I just think about what shiz did to him. And then I remembe that there are some matchups where his style really won't get it done.

One battle does not a war make.

Mango lost to Kage, and that doesn't mean that Mango isn't as amazing as he ever was.

In all honesty, I suppose I mispoke when I talked about Kage's "style" being best. It's not so much that style that defines why Kage is good, as much as it is just Kage is the best Ganon in general. What makes him so is his decisions.

When Silent wolf stopped playing obscenely technical and opted for a more conservative efficient route, while utilizing his technical skills, he got alot more results. I just think Kage has trimmed the fat off of his Ganon to exemplify such a change. It's the same deal with IHSB and Hugs. People say Hugs is better, and he plays so boring and basic. While IHSB is everywhere at once, and looks insanely cool while doing it. I think Kage realizes this, which is why he pulls those "insane" moments out more rarely where he really pushes the envelope, instead of going gung-ho and going for a crazy finish for every stock. That's how you make combo videos, not win nationals in teams.

Just my two cents.

 

[Superspright]

The thing about Ganon for me is being deceptive. We never want to give away our speed. We can be as quick and as mobile as captain falcon in short bursts. Most people know this--but conditioning them to our best punishes, or our fastest is a mistake. We want to keep our spacing as deceptive as possible--and pulling all the brakes and going all out speed and tech is probably wrong. There are plenty of things we can do that don't require incredible speed or precision that are just as effective. Everyone wants to keep up with the fastest most technical characters--but it isn't necessary when you're just smart.

But basically what he said ^

U-tilt is like -10 to -12 depending on how close Falco is (closer having more disadvantage since it hits earlier), and if it's stale (will usually be 5 stun most of the time unless it's completely fresh). Shine can come out before the up-b, but if they're that close to reach with shine after u-tilt you can shieldgrab the u-tilt if you're facing that way. If they u-tilt out of shieldgrab range or out of shine range on your back the up-b will almost always get them when timed well unless they expect the up-b and sidestep. Will always be able to beat u-tilt -> u-tilt though. Actually, since you can move during the startup of up-b you could probably move away to be safe from shine then turn around as it comes out if they u-tilt close on the back of the shield, but I haven't tried it.

Interesting stuff! I've been working on incorporating up-b into my game. Mainly where there are platforms above me, and it's unpunishable, or near unpunishable. It doesn't lead into anything--but it's free damage. And I think level-9 CPU's got something going there when he humps you at every perfect moment.

[edit]

Pfdsjaifdosahiofds double post. ;.;

 

[-ACE-]

The thing about Ganon for me is being deceptive. We never want to give away our speed. We can be as quick and as mobile as captain falcon in short bursts. Most people know this--but conditioning them to our best punishes, or our fastest is a mistake. We want to keep our spacing as deceptive as possible--and pulling all the brakes and going all out speed and tech is probably wrong. There are plenty of things we can do that don't require incredible speed or precision that are just as effective. Everyone wants to keep up with the fastest most technical characters--but it isn't necessary when you're just smart.

This used to be one of my biggest mistakes. The people I played against got accustomed to Ganon's abilities a lot quicker. What can I say, I'm good Ganon practice haha

 

[Juushichi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v43-OvtUbfc - The song I heard the other day and made me think of your Ganon.

Congrats on winning teams with Axe and placing 5th today!

 

[-ACE-]

can't wait to see those vids...

 

[harriettheguy]

If you think about it....

The thing about Ganon for me is being Deceptive

We never want to give away our roll speed. We can be as quick and as mobile as captain falcon when rolling. Most people know this, but they have a fetish for hitting shields anyway. We want to inconspicuously space 3 DK-widths away-and pulling all the brakes and going all out speed and tech makes us feel bold against bad players. There are plenty of things we can do that don't require skill that are just as effective. Everyone wants to keep up with the fastest most technical characters--but it isn't necessary when their speed brings them into an iron wall.

But basically what Superspright said.


I beat rockcrock in a friendly, so I think I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Superspright]

*blank stare* I should have just said this: play cool when you play Ganon. play real cool.

 

[-ACE-]

Just roll when it's the best option... I don't see how the roll speed can be very deceptive against players with any decent Ganon matchup experience. You don't want to overuse it, just like anything else, but Ganon encounters situations against faster characters where rolling is necessary quite often.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

I agree, ganon's roll is pivotal in escaping pressures from fast characters. however, i try to roll away from the opponent rather than behind him or her because it is much less punishable.

 

[-ACE-]

It all depends on how your opponent is approaching and their spacing. Rolling through is often less punishable when they overshoot an approach.

 

[Dorsey]

The thing about Ganon for me is being Deceptive

I beat rockcrock in a friendly, so I think I know what I'm talking about.

I like the first sentence.

I think you have good ganon game but I guess the 2nd is a joke

 

[Manondorf]

****ing amazing job Kage. Can't wait to see those teams. Getting 5th with ganon is still extremely impressive, you'll get 'em next time.

Hope you make it to the WC one of these days. I'd love to blaze a few with you...
matches that is

Great job to everyone else too, wish I coulda been there, woulda been hella sick.

 

[Divinokage]

The hope for Ganons is obviously still here. =P Thanks everyone! I'll just keep being Ganon. =)

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yo harriettheguy, why'd you make my pool at pound broken? you're so mean.

that guys ganon game is pretty good.

 

[Divinokage]

One battle does not a war make.

Mango lost to Kage, and that doesn't mean that Mango isn't as amazing as he ever was.

In all honesty, I suppose I mispoke when I talked about Kage's "style" being best. It's not so much that style that defines why Kage is good, as much as it is just Kage is the best Ganon in general. What makes him so is his decisions.

When Silent wolf stopped playing obscenely technical and opted for a more conservative efficient route, while utilizing his technical skills, he got alot more results. I just think Kage has trimmed the fat off of his Ganon to exemplify such a change. It's the same deal with IHSB and Hugs. People say Hugs is better, and he plays so boring and basic. While IHSB is everywhere at once, and looks insanely cool while doing it. I think Kage realizes this, which is why he pulls those "insane" moments out more rarely where he really pushes the envelope, instead of going gung-ho and going for a crazy finish for every stock. That's how you make combo videos, not win nationals in teams.

Just my two cents.

My style is just my style and the way I play. Sometimes my style will make it a lot harder or easier vs other players styles because thats just how it is. I play how I think is right and I think everyone should do the same.. you kinda have to formulate a style which you think will counter everyone. No one plays the same at all.

 

[Jane]

good **** winning teams, kage and axe!

 

[Palpi]

Kage I love you <3

 

[Divinokage]

<3 Good games and stuff, it was fun. =P Be scared of Ganon!!

 

[Palpi]

I'll beat you one day. I have the heart of the warrior.

 

[Divinokage]

Haha, you've got this, keep working at it! =D Ive seen some pretty disgusting combos you did, it was awesome.

 

[Palpi]

Thanks! I really appreciate your complements and you being so nice! I learned a lot from our matches. Sorry for rooting against you against jesiah, I love jesiah though . Those were great matches, you're sick against marth.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

good job man!! I'm now even more inspired to become the best in the West

 

[Linguini]

My style is just my style and the way I play. Sometimes my style will make it a lot harder or easier vs other players styles because thats just how it is. I play how I think is right and I think everyone should do the same.. you kinda have to formulate a style which you think will counter everyone. No one plays the same at all.

yeah kage knows what he's talking about.

btw GOOD ***** man ganon pika sounds ridiculously fun too! fvcking love that team!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

My style is just my style and the way I play. Sometimes my style will make it a lot harder or easier vs other players styles because thats just how it is. I play how I think is right and I think everyone should do the same.. you kinda have to formulate a style which you think will counter everyone. No one plays the same at all.

What a great post.

 

[Walt]

I'm trying to wrap my brain around how ganon pika even works

 

[-ACE-]

Pikachu basically has a tipman spike lol. I can see it now... ganon fair to pika gimp

Axe probably had some good saves too

 

[Divinokage]

yeah kage knows what he's talking about.

btw GOOD ***** man ganon pika sounds ridiculously fun too! fvcking love that team!

Haha thx dude, appreciate it a lot. =) The team was absolutely out of this world.. somehow everything worked out pretty well. I can't wait to see the vids because I dont remember much honestly, was too focused on playing the best I could. lol

Pikachu basically has a tipman spike lol. I can see it now... ganon fair to pika gimp

Axe probably had some good saves too

Ya Axe saved me a lot, and Pika just doesnt die since he doesnt really need saving from Ganon off-stage. I can just hit people off-stage and then Axe can recover easily. Air jolt and the upair saved me a lot. Our grab setups were pretty good in general I think, but we did hit each other a bunch I guess because of miscommunication... oh well, more details in the matches.. man oh god, I never believed we would of won, and ****** everyone at that..

 

[Jane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sNVfOpdzY

so ridiculously ****.

 

[-ACE-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtPvU2Rl4Ss

This one is good too. Kage, first match I saw you pass up a free lightshield edghog!!! You said you were going to work on this lol.

Seriously great stuff man, Axe is so aggressive in a smart way and your spacing was really on point.