Ignore.

[Rhyme]

I agree with what many have said about inexperience with the Samus matchup (what I'm used to as "novelty characters") but in particular what Hive said about Snakes. I've played Snakes like Hat, Pope, Yes! and Inui. Even though I'll usually lose, first match I will, without fail, **** first stock and take first stock. (Only Snake I've played who I can remember not taking first stock first match is Ally, but even then he was at 150+ when I lost first stock) So yeah, the surprise factor can be huge, although a good Snake will not suffer from that for very long at all.

I haven't played great Ness players, but from what I've experienced, I'm gonna have to go against the crowd and say that Lylat is a good choice against him, for several reasons. The tilting and slopes can mess with his overB if you fight uphill from him. Also, Ness cannot charge his Usmash/Dsmash if his YoYo is on different level ground than he is, so this stage will cause many Ness players to flub these smash attacks. Additionally, the variety of platforms are good for Samus tricksies, while Ness will find it even harder to get back to the ground. Ness isn't a particularly fierce edge guarder, so even though this stage CAN mess with Samus' ledge game, the damage won't be as pronounced against a Ness. Plus, Ness needs to worry about being knocked beneath this stage for a sure KO. If that weren't enough, the tilting messes with his sweetspotting FAR worse than it does for Samus, and the large blast zones will add survivability against Bthrow. Overall I like this stage against Ness (if the Ness player doesn't ban it).

 

[Uffe]

@ Hive: Recoverying for Ness on Lylat Cruise isn't that much of a problem. Of course it can make a difference in the match. A lot of characters actually get screwed in attempts to recover on Lylat Cruise. Bowser, DK, Lucario, just to name a few. I've never played Tudor and I'd love to, but overall a lot of my matches against Samus were through wifi. The only offline one I have is against Dryn. Overall, though it doesn't really matter I guess, I have defeated a lot of Samus mains and a few have defeated me. Again, this was on lag-fi, so the winnings and loses really don't matter to me, but there were a lot of similarities of how Samus is used.

If I were to play Tudor, chances are I'd lose because of the skill he's got. But I'd do my best to make an extreme effort to not lose. And let's be honest, I'm not exactly the best Ness to go up against someone like him. Maybe someone like ViceGrip would have a better chance since he attends tournaments. As for the match up ratio, my thought on it still stands at 55:45 in Ness' favor or 50:50. Ness can be a pain in the *** and as long as he's still on the stage, he's not going anywhere for awhile.

@ Rhyme: I love Lylat Cruise. As for the Yo-yo, not many Ness' from what I see use that. Ness is pretty much aerial. He's got ground attacks, but his aerials are pretty good. And again, recovering even on a tilting stage doesn't give us a problem. Honestly, I never think about the stage tilting when I'm recovering. The only time I think about this is when I attempt to use PK Fire. Of course this stage isn't good for Ness and isn't really good for most of the roster anyway.

 

[Hive]

^^ I didn't mean to play tudor ^^ I just said he would be good because he regularly plays a ness in las vegas. <i think...>

good review though uffe!
lol I feel so lame that i haven't beaten earthbound yet I even got to like the endboss lol.

 

[Cherry64]

Rohins doens't post in here much

 

[Uffe]

Okay, I've come to the conclusion between Ness vs Samus. I'm going to say it's even. Sadly I'm like the only Ness who comes to the Samus boards.

 

[Tudor]

Uffe I don't doubt that you're a beast! And I think you're cool too!! But in my opinion I would have to strongly suggest you give Samus the advantage...

Although I have only played 3 Ness's that I consider very talented, I must say that each one of them has faced multiple 3 stocks just by the fact that a pro Samus can gimp a pro Ness very easily (and not so much the other way around).

 

[Crystanium]

Uffe I don't doubt that you're a beast! And I think you're cool too!! But in my opinion I would have to strongly suggest you give Samus the advantage...

Although I have only played 3 Ness's that I consider very talented, I must say that each one of them has faced multiple 3 stocks just by the fact that a pro Samus can gimp a pro Ness very easily (and not so much the other way around).

I don't know about that, Tudor. There is the pillar spike. It's very useful to get rid of your opponent real quick. Ness uses his PK Fire while in the air, and it hits his opponent. Then he jumps out and uses his d-air, since his opponent is caught in the PK Fire. Ness' f-air beats Samus'. Ness can pester Samus when she's in the air by using his PK Thunder. She falls slow, so it's difficult, but not impossible, to avoid. You can't rely just on spiking to determine the match-up. Otherwise, I'd say Samus does better against Olimar, since his recovery is the worst. Fight my brother, and you'll see he doesn't have too much of a hard time getting through my Homing Missiles and z-air.

 

[Cherry64]

Honestly, I played a friend of mine who mains as ness, anyway I beat his secondaries and they were close but it was clear I was better, he pulled out and it was a 2 stock nearly every time. I've faced Ness' so it's not my lack on exp I spaced well bombed over his pk fire (which actually works if far enough away) and played pretty well, but he was just there every time. I'd say 60-40 fo Ness. it's not a huge advantage but it's still an advantage. or 55:45 but those are my 2 cents

 

[Uffe]

Uffe I don't doubt that you're a beast! And I think you're cool too!! But in my opinion I would have to strongly suggest you give Samus the advantage...

Although I have only played 3 Ness's that I consider very talented, I must say that each one of them has faced multiple 3 stocks just by the fact that a pro Samus can gimp a pro Ness very easily (and not so much the other way around).

I'm not pro skill, so if I were to get three stocked by you, it wouldn't come as a surprise to me. But I've worked out some method to surviving. Mario and Squirtle have a better chance of gimping Ness and so far neither one has pulled that off against me. If/When I do become better with Ness, I'll show you what those three Ness mains probably failed to do. I'm not saying you're fighting crappy Ness mains, either or doubting that you can gimp your opponents. I'm just saying Ness still stands a chance. His recovery isn't the best, but it's far from being the worst.

My apologizes if I sounded like an ***.

 

[Tudor]

It kinda sounds to me like Uffe and Dryn decided on a match up already and it won't matter what I say, that's fine but just remember I was just trying to help with an accurate match up. It doesn't affect me who has the advantage in the Ness or Samus match up and it definitely doesn't help me to read about it.

Dryn I don't understand why this had to turn into a "fight my brother and you'll see" thing, I'm sure you saw me getting 0-death'ed by a Ness twice in my combo video (one of those times included Ness reading me and going very low to do a pk fire to spike)...

And Uffe I never said Ness doesn't stand a chance I personally believe anyone can get amazing and destroy anyone else. I was just merely stating that overall an average or pro Samus will probably have a slightly better chance at beating an average or pro Ness. Of course my idea of an average or pro Samus may be biased considering people think I'm a pretty good one myself but also just as well might your idea of an average or pro Ness be biased because you are so good.

You guys know I wouldn't say anything to hate on you I really was just trying to help. Of course I may be completely off on the match up but it is my experience. You may decide to consider it or not, your choice, but I wanted you to at least be aware of it. Sorry for making this long and sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[Cherry64]

It kinda sounds to me like Uffe and Dryn decided on a match up already and it won't matter what I say, that's fine but just remember I was just trying to help with an accurate match up. It doesn't affect me who has the advantage in the Ness or Samus match up and it definitely doesn't help me to read about it.

Dryn I don't understand why this had to turn into a "fight my brother and you'll see" thing, I'm sure you saw me getting 0-death'ed by a Ness twice in my combo video (one of those times included Ness reading me and going very low to do a pk fire to spike)...

And Uffe I never said Ness doesn't stand a chance I personally believe anyone can get amazing and destroy anyone else. I was just merely stating that overall an average or pro Samus will probably have a slightly better chance at beating an average or pro Ness. Of course my idea of an average or pro Samus may be biased considering people think I'm a pretty good one myself but also just as well might your idea of an average or pro Ness be biased because you are so good.

You guys know I wouldn't say anything to hate on you I really was just trying to help. Of course I may be completely off on the match up but it is my experience. You may decide to consider it or not, your choice, but I wanted you to at least be aware of it. Sorry for making this long and sorry if I offended anyone.

^^^ so much nicer than Xyro

 

[Uffe]

Whoo. Yeah, I feel like I've offended Tudor though that's not my intentions. Also, my brother telling you to play me, the chances of that are very slim. I apologize for that remark of his. And I know you never said Ness doesn't stand a chance. Sorry if I took your words out of context. Overall, I'm just sharing my experiences against Samus is as are you. Perhaps we can get more Samus and Ness mains to discuss this.

 

[Tudor]

I'm not offended at all! Yup yup this is just sharing experiences. Maybe the match up is 50:50 after all. I was just thinking off the stage I don't see any reason why Ness should be able to recover against a good Samus, but then again not a lot of Samus's are crazy enough to get hit by Ness's up-b and tech it on purpose just to kill his recovery. I guess overall maybe it's 50:50 but I still feel like the higher the skill the more it is in favor of Samus. But I guess not a lot of people feel this way so I may be completely off. As you know the only Ness I play is the one from my video's and the other top one in vegas. Here's a vid of him (he's hopefully better cause it looks like all he spams is up-b in this vid lol, still was fun to see it live though); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfvoAHGT4sQ

How bout we just call it a day and say 50:50 ^^

 

[Cherry64]

I'm not offended at all! Yup yup this is just sharing experiences. Maybe the match up is 50:50 after all. I was just thinking off the stage I don't see any reason why Ness should be able to recover against a good Samus, but then again not a lot of Samus's are crazy enough to get hit by Ness's up-b and tech it on purpose just to kill his recovery. I guess overall maybe it's 50:50 but I still feel like the higher the skill the more it is in favor of Samus. But I guess not a lot of people feel this way so I may be completely off. As you know the only Ness I play is the one from my video's and the other top one in vegas. Here's a vid of him (he's hopefully better cause it looks like all he spams is up-b in this vid lol, still was fun to see it live though); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfvoAHGT4sQ

How bout we just call it a day and say 50:50 ^^

I would but I'm not Nearly as good as you, thus I'm calling 60-40 for ness when a ness is facing off against Wills Spamus. You are probably right in your end but personally it seems in favor of the little guy not saying your wrong, in fact I'm saying your right, but I just can't compare to your ness skillz lol.

 

[Tudor]

I'm sure your Samus is a beast ^^

And I know Uffe has a beastly Ness as well!

Well i've provided my input for this, back to trolling =D

 

[Uffe]

I'm not offended at all! Yup yup this is just sharing experiences. Maybe the match up is 50:50 after all. I was just thinking off the stage I don't see any reason why Ness should be able to recover against a good Samus, but then again not a lot of Samus's are crazy enough to get hit by Ness's up-b and tech it on purpose just to kill his recovery. I guess overall maybe it's 50:50 but I still feel like the higher the skill the more it is in favor of Samus. But I guess not a lot of people feel this way so I may be completely off. As you know the only Ness I play is the one from my video's and the other top one in vegas. Here's a vid of him (he's hopefully better cause it looks like all he spams is up-b in this vid lol, still was fun to see it live though); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfvoAHGT4sQ

How bout we just call it a day and say 50:50 ^^

Old video is old. That's FOW. I haven't played him yet, but it still looks like he likes to use PK Thunder quite a lot from what I've seen recently. If you've defeated him, I may very well be wrong about the match up. I'd like to say it's 50:50, but if you beat that guy, because I hear he's pretty good, then maybe it is in Samus' favor.

 

[Crystanium]

It kinda sounds to me like Uffe and Dryn decided on a match up already and it won't matter what I say, that's fine but just remember I was just trying to help with an accurate match up. It doesn't affect me who has the advantage in the Ness or Samus match up and it definitely doesn't help me to read about it.

Dryn I don't understand why this had to turn into a "fight my brother and you'll see" thing, I'm sure you saw me getting 0-death'ed by a Ness twice in my combo video (one of those times included Ness reading me and going very low to do a pk fire to spike)...

And Uffe I never said Ness doesn't stand a chance I personally believe anyone can get amazing and destroy anyone else. I was just merely stating that overall an average or pro Samus will probably have a slightly better chance at beating an average or pro Ness. Of course my idea of an average or pro Samus may be biased considering people think I'm a pretty good one myself but also just as well might your idea of an average or pro Ness be biased because you are so good.

You guys know I wouldn't say anything to hate on you I really was just trying to help. Of course I may be completely off on the match up but it is my experience. You may decide to consider it or not, your choice, but I wanted you to at least be aware of it. Sorry for making this long and sorry if I offended anyone.

I guess I did come off unpleasant when I brought up my brother's Ness. I didn't mean to seem that way. Everyone is getting different match-up ratios. I'm really not sure what to think about this match-up. I was just bringing up the gimping part with Ness. A lot of people like to bring that up in the match-up, as if it was the sole reason Ness shouldn't be doing well against his opponents. That's really all I was picking at.

You're still cool in my book, Tudor. You know I'm your fan.

 

[Rhyme]

Maybe I'm just not seeing something because of my lack of 'good Ness' experience, but what's so difficult about Ness' Fair? G&W beats out Samus in the air and we just Zair him, so wouldn't the same thing apply against Ness?

 

[Uffe]

When Ness gets close, he doesn't give Samus much options. Zair isn't impossible to get passed by. Not to mention the number of KO moves Ness has with him. If you have a problem with G&W, you'll probably have a problem with Ness. Neither one are the same, but both can be rather annoying when it comes to attacks with high priority. Ness' fair and nair have just that.

Fair has a multiple hit and can continue being used in the air as long as Ness still has his second jump. To make matters worse, Ness can pressure your shield. Fair cuts through most of Samus' physical attacks. Samus can space herself with her zair and heavy Missile spam, but there are ways around that. It doesn't mean Ness won't ever get hit, it just means that when Ness gets through it, using those attacks aren't as effective as they are at a distance.

A defensive Ness player will most likely lose to Samus while an offensive Ness player won't allow that to happen. It doesn't mean an offensive Ness can't lose against Samus, though. This is the part where Samus is really good at racking up damage on Ness. Whenever I fight Samus, she'll get me up with a lot of damage, but when I'm close up, things begin to turn around.

Anyway, I'm awaiting what Tudor has to say about the Ness' he's fought. I believe one of them to be Arvin, but the other two I don't know yet. If one of them is FOW, then I might change my opinion. Until than, I'm staying with 50:50.

 

[Tudor]

I know, we're cool Dryn and Uffe!

Yes the other Ness is FOW which challenged me at SK92 monthly exactly one month ago and we probably played 10 matches, of which he won one or two (most likely two) and out of the rest got 3 stocked at least four times. This is not to say that FOW isn't a great Ness but he probably doesn't have a lot of experience against a good Samus, so that might play into it. And I know Uffe plays Dryn a lot so it might really come down to does the Samus/Ness have experience playing Samus/Ness but I don't know. All I know is I've played a handful of Ness's that i've seen destroy other people but my Samus seemed to have a big advantage....

 

[Uffe]

I know, we're cool Dryn and Uffe!

Yes the other Ness is FOW which challenged me at SK92 monthly exactly one month ago and we probably played 10 matches, of which he won one or two (most likely two) and out of the rest got 3 stocked at least four times. This is not to say that FOW isn't a great Ness but he probably doesn't have a lot of experience against a good Samus, so that might play into it. And I know Uffe plays Dryn a lot so it might really come down to does the Samus/Ness have experience playing Samus/Ness but I don't know. All I know is I've played a handful of Ness's that i've seen destroy other people but my Samus seemed to have a big advantage....

Oh, no doubt FOW has a good Ness. I never played him, but people have said his Ness was good. As for Samus experience, meh. If he can get by Falco, he shouldn't have a problem with Samus. What would you say the match up is then? Because if you owned FOW, then I'm changing my opinion to 55:45 Samus' favor.

 

[Tudor]

Well I always have a hard time deciding match up's because I do the match up's for tudor not for Samus and sometimes it's not accurate to the characters. I don't want to be the one who decides the match up because sometimes my ideas are inaccurate, i just wanted to provide more input so that you guys could come to a good decision ^^

However if you really want my idea of the match up it would be 70-30 in tudor's favor, or 55:45 in Samus' favor.

 

[Hive]

lol tudor. the matchups are for high levels of play, not average levels of play. ^^ so it would be 70-30 in that case wouldn't it? you can't be beyond the highest levels of play. :D

I've had good experiences with nesses as well, but I haven't played enough I think to make an accurate analysis of the matchup

 

[Xyro77]

70-30 in tudor's favor.

see and thats why its REALLY hard for me to believe that your the "best" samus out there. You have to be playing ABSOLUTE garbage marths.

 

[Tudor]

Thanks xyro. So anyways, back to the people who actually read things before posting.

Yah but like I said, I play crazy against Ness sometimes and get hit by his up-b just to stop his recovering and tech.

And I happen to play well against good marths (once again i don't like naming names, if you already know then you know they are well known and among the top) but I lose more than I win.

 

[Uffe]

Fine. I'm in agreement with you Tudor. When you guys start to discuss Toon Link and/or Wario, let me know. I'll try to put my input with those characters vs Samus. Of course people are saying Toon Link vs Samus is 60:40, Toon Link's favor. I want to change that, though.

 

[Hive]

btw tudor, this was brought up earlier, but i would love to hear your own thoughts on this-> what do you think the matchup ratio is between samus and mk at high levels of play?

and also which matchups do you think are basically unbeatable for samus given that both characters are at the highest levels of play if any?

 

[Tudor]

Uffe you are too pro ^^
(so is your bro!)
I say it cause I know
and i'm rhyming with the flow

Any match up for Samus is beatable at high levels of play (I mean it)!

Now about the MK question... I honestly believe Samus can do good against MK. I have 3 stocked the all the MK's in Vegas. Now for the high level of play part... that's a tough one. I want to say that if I played MK at high levels of play often I would develop some very specific techniques and should be able to make the match up at least 50:50. However, as of currently, I get pretty ***** by high level of play MK 's the occasional times I encounter one. Vegas is hella pro but we don't have a super pro MK. So when I played DSF's MK at SK92's tourney yesterday I got *****. He dair'ed everytime i bombed, Naired everytime I up-b'ed and just plays way too smart. I love DSF but my butt hurt after that and I only managed to spike him once per game, it was depressing but I know it's my fault for not having more experience against pro mk's.

I guess the conclusion is, as of currently, MK-Samus matchup at high levels is 80-20. I didn't look at what you guys concluded that is just purely my view on it. I may be wrong, please don't flame me, I just say it how it feels to me.

 

[n00b]

Its okay I've been ***** by DSF's MK too. :[

 

[Hive]

Its okay I've been ***** by DSF's MK too. :[

me too T.T DSF is really mean to us samuses lol.

I think sean was probably the hardest for me though

 

[∫unk]

Tudor dkat isn't a top marth anymore :/

Don't think you have anyone else

 

[Xyro77]

Tudor dkat isn't a top marth anymore :/

Don't think you have anyone else

WHAHAHAHHAHAHAH. like i said. Theres no one good in nevada excet for like a max of 4 people

 

[Hive]

tanj, cbk, raretruffle, hitori, myroboticclaw, tudor, nevada has a lot of good peoples lol

 

[Crystanium]

tanj, cbk, raretruffle, hitori, myroboticclaw, tudor, nevada has a lot of good peoples lol

RareTruffle and myRoboticClaw both use Zero Suit Samus. So yeah.

 

[n00b]

RareTruffle and myRoboticClaw both use Zero Suit Samus. So yeah.

RareTruffle and Claw are Vegas strippers, Tudor is the club bouncer.

 

[Hive]

lol.
seriously though raretruffle is hella legit ^^ (and one of the kwlest people to meet at tourneys lol)

grr, we need new characters to talk about ^^

 

[Tudor]

I dunno If I said it before but you guys are really cool and i <3 you, even that no name guy who posts something stupid or mean or ******** every time, he's alight cause i bet he's not a hateful idiot in person.


And about dannykat that's unfortunate... But he can't be that bad going head to head with S92 against DSF and Tyrant in finals. I think they lost though, not sure cause I had to leave. There are other Marth's though but maybe not so well known. I also said I play well against good Marth's not I play good Marths a lot... sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Cherry64]

I dunno If I said it before but you guys are really cool and i <3 you, even that no name guy who posts something stupid or mean or ******** every time, he's alight cause i bet he's not a hateful idiot in person.


And about dannykat that's unfortunate... But he can't be that bad going head to head with S92 against DSF and Tyrant in finals. I think they lost though, not sure cause I had to leave. There are other Marth's though but maybe not so well known. I also said I play well against good Marth's not I play good Marths a lot... sorry for the misunderstanding.

Hahaha Apparently Xyro is really nice in person. Completely diffferent from his internet alter ego. So says n00b anyways.

****IT DRYN! you deleted n00b's post about meeting xyro and being horribly disappointing by it. saying that you though he'd be three stocking people with his ego alone.
Cruel world here guys

 

[Crystanium]

****IT DRYN! you deleted n00b's post about meeting xyro and being horribly disappointing by it. saying that you though he'd be three stocking people with his ego alone.
Cruel world here guys

I haven't deleted anyones post. I don't mess with peoples posts.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

well since this is the matchup thread i guess this is the right place to put it. Peach is discussing Samus and we'd like you guys to join us here

hope to see lots of people there