Jigglypuff Counters Meta Knight: A Guide

[Thinkaman]

How on earth is drill rest unreliable?

They can shield it at a low enough percent... but no one should be trying to drill rest at a non-killing percent anyway. Heck, in most matchups a non-lethal rest is terrible.

Also, go tell overswarm that ROB has a small hitbox. I'd like to see what happens.

 

[Frogsterking]

I did make an entire guide for Jigglypuff. I'm gonna edit it for the information I learned here, but you should check it out:
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/32197/t1199897-illinialex-presents-an-approved-jigglypuff-guide/

I did post it here but for someone reason it got messed up.

Thanks for link! Thats too bad it got messed up. I read through it and its been very informative. I can't wait to try out Jigglypuff now!

 

[Teh Future]

Also, go tell overswarm that ROB has a small hitbox. I'd like to see what happens.

I just meant for drill resting. Other than that he's one of the easiest characters to upair to rest because the only way he can get out is through air dodging, he can't attack.

 

[Tyser]

Drill Rest = Answer to all problems. That's why I Jiggz.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Lol... nice guide. I like the anti-MK description around pretty much every attack

 

[chaos_]

nice thread

 

[PK-ow!]

This guide has made me pick up Jigglypuff until such time as I remember that I suck with it.



And Sing is broken.

 

[Yonder]

Seriously, why does Jiggs have to be so awful against such a terrible character?

THAT made my day. Luigi, a terrible character, lol. Wow, I laugh like Sakurai. And me saying Luigi isn't a terrible character isn't me being biased, it's true.


Asides from that, nice guide, it'll help me agaisnt those annoying Meta Knight.

 

[illinialex24]

THAT made my day. Luigi, a terrible character, lol. Wow, I laugh like Sakurai. And me saying Luigi isn't a terrible character isn't me being biased, it's true.


Asides from that, nice guide, it'll help me agaisnt those annoying Meta Knight.

Yeah, Metaknight truly is broken no matter what he does so this is a breath of fresh air.

 

[Teh Future]

OK this has been bugging me....

is drill rest really impossible to shield at higher percents? I usually try to use it around 60 for most characters, because that's when they die.... But I stopped using it because whenever I went for it, most people SHIELD it.And I'm pretty sure I'm using it at 60+ percent.

If drill rest is so good, then why didn't you ever use it when you went over to Metalmusicmans? Granted, I didn't see all of your matchs, but I never saw you drill rest and I played singles and teams with you quite a bit.

I know your at WTON, but I think you have your laptop so I'm posting this anyways.... and BTW I'm not trying to say you don't know what you're talking about because your jiggs is much better than mine, but I just remember everyone shielding my Drill rests so I stopped. If I can go back to using it, then omgwtfbbq, my jiggs would be about 10x better.

 

[Thinkaman]

I drill-rested people at WTON. gg no re

 

[Miller]

Softban -Rests you out of falcon punch-

But yea, this is quite informational, thanks ^_^

 

[Teh Future]

who did you beat/loose to there thinka?

 

[Thinkaman]

In pools I lost to Sliq 2-1 and Joshu 2-0, beat everyone else 2-0. (Including going Ganondorf against Meta Knight on Luigi's Mansion. )

In brackets I lost to Big C and Smash64, beat jons.

In custom stage tourney I beat Kyari and lost to Blood Hawk.

In friendlies I beat Big C, Overswarm, Anther, Samurai(nospace)Panda and some other people. I consistently beat Blood Hawk's Fox too, darn his Lucario.

Oh, and I rested Rofa out of tornado.

 

[Glick]

In pools I lost to Sliq 2-1 and Joshu 2-0, beat everyone else 2-0. (Including going Ganondorf against Meta Knight on Luigi's Mansion. )

In brackets I lost to Big C and Smash64, beat jons.

In custom stage tourney I beat Kyari and lost to Blood Hawk.

In friendlies I beat Big C, Overswarm, Anther, Samurai(nospace)Panda and some other people. I consistently beat Blood Hawk's Fox too, darn his Lucario.

Oh, and I rested Rofa out of tornado.

I NEED TO SEE A REST OUT OF A TORNADO. I CANT DO IT. GRHASEIOHARSDFHASDFADSFa

 

[Thinkaman]

Revised matchup ohpinyons:

7:3
Bowser (You automatically win if it isn't Sliq)
Link (Easy to gimp)
Ganondorf (Easy to gimp)
Captain Falcon (Easy to gimp...)

6:4
Mario (Gimpable)
Yoshi (Fair out of double jump = win button)
Zelda (One you get spacing down, not much she can do to you...)
Shiek (Meh, just avoid the u-smash and it's easily in your favor.)
Samus (Easy to juggle, just stay on top of her.)
Pit (Somewhat easy to gimp, air game non-threatening; stay close obviously)
Ivysaur (Easy to gimp, easy to get pulverized; be careful)
Ike (Wonderful weight/fall speed for Jiggs. Try not to get hit.)
Lucas (Don't walk into a u-smash and it's reasonably easy. His uair and nair are decent though.)
Sonic (It's pretty easy to trade hits with him any time you want, which will result in Jiggs winning the match.)

5:5
Peach (Meh.)
DK (He's like a Bowser that can bair you in the face)
Diddy (Annoying in the air, but Jiggs has less issues than most with his crazy ground game)
Zamus (Side-B, down-b, and uair are bothersome, but that's about it...)
ROB (Lives forever; Just don't jump into a nair.)
Kirby (Meh. Know his aerials.)
Meta Knight (Wait, am I serious?)
Fox (Not that bad, as long as you can avoid the uairs.)
Falco (It's all about gimping his recovery. To Jiggs he's like a worse Fox with lasers.)
Wolf (Meh.)
Charizard (Don't get hit and it's easy.)
Jigglypuff (...)
Ness (Annoying fair, killer bair and uair. Easy to gimp.)
Snake (Endless aerial assualt vs. u-tilt...)

4:6
Luigi (Nair priority, Up-B out of everything, you can attack shield freely)
Wario (Lives forever, annoying aerial game, f-smash from the devil)
Toon Link (Most annoying aerials ever, recovery hard to gimp.)
DeDeDe (Stupid bair, mildly annoying projectiles that help your stale moves list manipulation.)
Olimar (Annoying but bearable disjointed hitboxes... good thing no one plays him.)
Pikachu (Annoying fight, almost impossible to gimp.)
Squirtle (WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN)
Lucario (Annoying aerials and jabs, hard to kill, Rest a must)
Marth (Stupid aerial range AND SPEED. Random u-smashes seem to kill me too, plus up-B...)

3:7
Game & Watch (Still ridiculous. Also, judgement 9s. Screw you Joel.)

1:9
Mewtwo (I give up. Every attempt I make to make this matchup better only results it it seeming more impossible. He can not only grab you out of all your aerials, but also pivot grab you out of POUND...)

 

[Glick]

I agree that for a jigglypuff that knows what their doing; metaknight=jigglypuff. Unless your experienced and have experience with them and know what to do for all their moves you'll automatically lose. However everyone should play some metaknight themselves to get comfortable with their moves, thats what I do with hard match ups. when this match up was hard for me, I picked him up for this purpose and it helped a lot.

 

[Amide]

I'd change Olimar to 0:10 if I were you. Still, I ant to see those vids.

Oh, and Thinkaman, can I link this thread to the match up guide? I don't think it's possible to have a better strategy guide against MK than this.

 

[Brinzy]

Good god, this has to be the what, 12th board I've been to that lists they have an advantage on Zelda?

 

[chaos_]

lol nice tips

 

[Teh Future]

mmm Yeah I'm surprised you lost to smash64. I guess his fair just basically shut out all your approach options?

 

[Thinkaman]

Well, Smash64 is really good to begin with and totally deserved his placing. The fair did hurt approach, and his b-throw and uair allowed very consistent low percent KO's. He was also incredibly good at the double bair, one of my own personal Ness favorites. He has also mastered Ness's aerial movement and recovery to the point where not once was I able to gimp him.

Also, I took him to Brinstar.

That was easily the stupidest move of the entire tourney.

 

[fallenangemon0]

I came.

10camez

 

[KarlZ]

nice guide.

 

[Kirbykrew]

Useful guide is useful.

Thanks for this.

 

[jehonaker]

Funny, informative, and interesting. Thanks for this guide, Thinkaman.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Doesn't jiggs have to be at like 100% for meta to actually be able to kill her from a missed rest? If you hold straight up and DI with your neutral air , I'm pretty sure you could probably live either his up b or fully charged downsmash at percentages up to 100? So it's not that risky on meta as it is on most characters.

 

[PND]

Matchups I disagree with:

Squirtle: Dsmash on the edge hits him out of his Up B before he can grab the edge. It's hilarious. Timing must be precise. If for whatever reason he up Bs *over* you instead of going for the ledge, he will get rested, rollouted, or just generally humiliated.

Snake: Grenades! ARGHA. I'd out it a 60/40 disadvantage, if not higher. If Snake airdodges while you're aerially wailing on him, he's stupid. All he has to do is pull a grenade and you're forced to retreat or explode. You can't rollout a snake at all or he'll just grenade shield. And you explode. Plus his Utilt is absolutely diabolical. He must have made a pact with Satan to get that range and killing power. I mean, he's not as hard as some of the other matchups, but good ****ing lord a campy snake is a *****.

 

[_voRg__]

if they drillrush you you can grab them oos

 

[Thinkaman]

Doesn't jiggs have to be at like 100% for meta to actually be able to kill her from a missed rest? If you hold straight up and DI with your neutral air , I'm pretty sure you could probably live either his up b or fully charged downsmash at percentages up to 100? So it's not that risky on meta as it is on most characters.

Right, I certainly am a bit more liberal with rest against Meta Knight and ROB than most. Just be careful Meta Knight doesn't get you vulnerabel near the edge with a fully charged D-Smash.

Squirtle: Dsmash on the edge hits him out of his Up B before he can grab the edge. It's hilarious. Timing must be precise. If for whatever reason he up Bs *over* you instead of going for the ledge, he will get rested, rollouted, or just generally humiliated.

Are you sure you can d'smash his up-B if he recovers low? Plus, as Squirtle, I will often up-B through people if they are not shielding; his Up-B generally has pretty good priority in front...

Snake: Grenades! ARGHA. I'd out it a 60/40 disadvantage, if not higher. If Snake airdodges while you're aerially wailing on him, he's stupid. All he has to do is pull a grenade and you're forced to retreat or explode. You can't rollout a snake at all or he'll just grenade shield. And you explode. Plus his Utilt is absolutely diabolical. He must have made a pact with Satan to get that range and killing power. I mean, he's not as hard as some of the other matchups, but good ****ing lord a campy snake is a *****.

It's possible to hit Snake without hitting his nades... in fact it's relatively easy for Jiggs due to the precision of control you have with bair. Pound not so much. Obviously, you shouldn't be trying to rollout snake, or anyone with more priority than Rollout on their tilts and smashes... which is everyone. Rollout should be used only to catch people in bad situations.

if they drillrush you you can grab them oos

Pretty much any character can do that, except shielding drill rush almost never works since they angle the attack at your feet to shield stab.

*****

RANDOM JIGGLYPUFF METAGAME UPDATE: I have decided that nair will be the secret to fighting DDD. Thus it has been written.

 

[PND]

Are you sure you can d'smash his up-B if he recovers low? Plus, as Squirtle, I will often up-B through people if they are not shielding; his Up-B generally has pretty good priority in front...

From all angles I've experimented with, yes. Depending on how well Squirtle has angled / positioned his Up B the timing can be quite difficult, but it always works* AFAICT**. The local PT's in the scene hate my Jiggs for this reason, as Squirtle used to be the only pogeyman I had problems with. Now, I find Ivysaur the HARDEST to gimp effectively (not saying much)

___________________________________________
*A notable exception to this is a stage with a wall.
**As far a I can tell

 

[Thinkaman]

Charizard should be really tough to gimp if he knows what he is doing... He should be able to glide back high in many cases, always able to glide attack through your aerials. if he has to recover low and you beat him to the edge, he can use his jumps to time his Up-B to hit you off.

 

[PND]

Yeah, but if he has to use his jumps to time the UpB that gives you time to react and counter accordingly. The Up B hurts though

But I agree with the glide attack. Holy hell that move hurts.

 

[PhantomX]

Why would MK dsmash out of a missed rest... when he can Fsmash?

 

[Thinkaman]

Often you try to rest MK when he is in the air, and he has low aerial speed horizontally. Sometimes he can't position and charge a F-Smash, but he can almost always throw down a D-Smash.

 

[illinialex24]

Yeah, but if he has to use his jumps to time the UpB that gives you time to react and counter accordingly. The Up B hurts though

But I agree with the glide attack. Holy hell that move hurts.

D-smash does hurt a lot. F-smash would be pretty bad too. Either way, watch out. Don't miss.

 

[urdailywater]

Can you make a guide vs. Jigglypuff with Jiggs?

Just refer to them both in third person so we won't get confused.

 

[illinialex24]

Can you make a guide vs. Jigglypuff with Jiggs?

Just refer to them both in third person so we won't get confused.

I'm gonna update my guide in the matchup and I'm going to use this a lot for my matchup with MK.

 

[Thinkaman]

My Latest Matchup Thoughts:

7:3
Bowser
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Ike
Sonic

6:4
Mario
Yoshi
Link
Shiek
Samus
Pit
Ivysaur
Lucas

5:5
Peach
Diddy
Zamus
ROB
Kirby
Meta Knight
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Charizard
Jigglypuff

45:55
DK
Toon Link
Olimar
Pikachu
Lucario
Snake

4:6
Luigi
Wario
Ice Climbers
DeDeDe
Squirtle
Marth
Ness

3:7
Game & Watch

Just for the record.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I think your latest matchup thoughts are flawed.