Mario Questions and Answers; Ask here first!

[SUPER MARIOWNED]

This is going to be really long...

If your goal is to be the very best, that no one ever was...
To cape them is your real test, to gimp them is your cause...
Then more power to ya. If it leads you to Victory Road, and to defeat the Elite Four, and become Champion, then don't let anyone stop you.

What a beautiful theme! I promise to do my best!

You're about two years too late.

Aww! But I'm not giving up! FLUDD's much more useful than for attack-stalls and gimps! ...Or maybe I am two years late. Well, just know that I'mma make him a big deal someday! Somehow... I don't know! Lemmie have my moment!

From personal experience, you will always suck until you go to your first tournament.

Can't argue there. You've gotta point. I always thought of myself as a competative player, but then I remember how I fell victim to being edgeguarded and how angry I got! 'Cause with me, I always thought that it 'wasn't fair' and that I would never ever use it! Sure enough, as I got familiar with the competative side of SSB, I've learned that, as cheap as it might be, it IS a technique. I mean -- if you're playing to win, which I'm sure everyone and their Mama is, you're going to do all that you can.
Ever since, I could safely say that I am phenomenal at gimping, whether it be with any special or something as simple a cape-stalling at a perfect timing.
By the way, I read your rant -- I don't blame ya'! From what I'm told, DDD's got his 'sorry six' in which he doesn't even gotta move to chain grab! Sadly, us Marios' are one of 'em. I'm sure you guys knew that, though.

D-tilt - Pretty much the most worthless move, but there has been some things that can be found viable with D-tilt that doesn't completely banish it from competitive fighting. It has more range than jabs, and hits low enough that you can shield poke. What's the biggest pencil pusher for this move is that D-tilt has so little knockback that this can actually set up for a kill at high percents. So D-tilt > F-Smash or D-tilt > U-Smash are actually viable options as long as the opponent doesn't react accordingly.
However, the problems are still glaringly obvious. Large ending lag, low knockback, and poor for spacing. This is, as a whole, a mindgame tool and should be used sparingly.

Well said! Yeah, it's not worth it at all in the long run. You've got so many other options anyway! I made a mistake -- it actually doesn't really promote for a jab-lock either, not like a well-placed fair, anyway. Unless they tech from it.

Also, welcome to the boards! I love your tag. I'm going to start telling people they've been Mariowned every time I beat them.

Hah! "You've got MARIOWNED!" It's my catchphrase! It's great to shout after you've won up against that chain-grabbing DDD or any other annoying opponent!

Just do what I did, and don't watch any videos of other Marios during your learning period.

That's exactly what I do! Or rather, what I don't do. I don't watch other playstyles. I really just refuse to.
I've been nothing but a Mario main since the SSB days, getting my playstyle down was easy! Now, it's really a matter of me getting into a lot more tournaments (only done a couple, which weren't really major either)

Unfortunately, if you play Mario you never get better than decent.

I've gotta ask -- what'cha mean by that? Is it 'cause I'm maining Mario? Or did I misunderstand you?

 

[A2ZOMG]

As a rule of thumb, you should listen to the inverse of what Xero says. =)

And if you want to get better, talk to us a lot. And post vids (and watch the vids that we post as well!). At the very least I aim to ensure that every Mario main on this board becomes a competitively competent player.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

He said he wanted to develop his own playstyle without leeching off of other people, I just told him exactly how to do that. Him performing the inverse would cause the opposite effect. In which case, he'd just be copying what others does, which isn't what he wants.

And Mariowned, it's because Mario isn't a very good character, nobody is past decent with him IMO, but then again apparantly you should always listen to the inverse of what I say.

 

[Kanzaki]

I don't really listen to what people say, nor look at guides, and I don't really watch videos of other Marios, other than myself to check out my flaws.. I just do what I feel like, similar to Melee Mario, minus the wavedash/l-cancel and approaching with fair xD

 

[Calebyte]

Jab-locking Woes

So I've started practicing jab-locking, but I can't seem to sustain it consistently. I either f-tilt my mistake, or jab too slow and lose it. Any advice for sustaining a jab-lock?

 

[Matt07]

Too be honest, Calebyte I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it. Getting Jab Lock opportunites are very rare, close to it will never happen. But for the sake of practicing umm, usually just down throw a Level 1 in Training Mode (and they'll be in the tumbled animation) and just keep practicing till you get the timing down.

 

[:mad:]

Jab -> Walk -> Let go of the control stick -> Jab -> Repeat

 

[HeroMystic]

By the way, I read your rant -- I don't blame ya'! From what I'm told, DDD's got his 'sorry six' in which he doesn't even gotta move to chain grab! Sadly, us Marios' are one of 'em. I'm sure you guys knew that, though.

It's called the DDD Infinite, but it doesn't really affect us unless you're not up to par with your grab break skills.

DDD's infinite can't really infinite Mario (and Samus, Luigi) because his D-throw stales out. When it stales, the hitlag (your character lags when you're hit, very obvious when you're hit with something like Ganon's D-air) lessens by about 2 frames. Fortunately, DDD's infinite has to be frame perfect, because the standing grab is only possible by 1 frame.

So essentially, DDD has to D-Throw - > Grab -> Pummel -> D-throw in order for the infinite to work, but since the Pummel animation is so slow (22 frames, almost half a second), it's possible for us to break out with relative ease until about, realistically, 120%.

 

[Mota]

Do you guys have a picture of mario performing his epic fair?

 

[HeroMystic]

 

[Juushichi]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229253

can anyone make something similar to this? i'd love to see some colorful zoning pics with Mario =) (even though A2 helped me what to zone with etc)

oh and anyone know how to platform cancel?

I've done it a few times, but I know Sil(houette) knows how to do it pretty well. I think its just jumping back on the platform at a particular point after you fall through so it just snaps there.

Also to reply to Famous... a early viable set up is FH or SH Fireball + dash + pivot grab. It doesn't work all the time, nor should it... but it's a decent mindgame. I'm not that great but I've been able to do it a few times against high-levels (I even did it to Kel once), so higher level players may be able to implement it better than me. It's just another way to set up after a fireball.

 

[Silhouette]

I've done it a few times, but I know Sil(houette) knows how to do it pretty well. I think its just jumping back on the platform at a particular point after you fall through so it just snaps there.

Also to reply to Famous... a early viable set up is FH or SH Fireball + dash + pivot grab. It doesn't work all the time, nor should it... but it's a decent mindgame. I'm not that great but I've been able to do it a few times against high-levels (I even did it to Kel once), so higher level players may be able to implement it better than me. It's just another way to set up after a fireball.

^^^He said my name.

but Juu, what you've seen me do is.. well theres no real term for it yet.. you quickly press down while moving upward through a platform at the moment your feet line up with it, and you will snap onto the platform laglessly and cancels all momentum, only useful on SV, Lylat, and Yoshis.

To platform cancel you need alot of momentum and precise spacing to the ledge, while moving towards the ledge you initiate your attack, and barely brush the corner of the ledge, while continuing your forward DI, it will instantly and laglessly cancel your attack.

at least I think thats what was asked.

 

[SUPER MARIOWNED]

So I've started practicing jab-locking, but I can't seem to sustain it consistently. I either f-tilt my mistake, or jab too slow and lose it. Any advice for sustaining a jab-lock?

Well, this is really going to be more of an environmental-advantage, but if you're at a place like Luigi's Mansion, jab locks are fairly easy to set-up and practice if you wanted to get the hang of it.
Don't worry, sometimes I accidently wind up tilting instead of performing the jab properly, 'cause sometimes my actions are faster than my mind. But I've found it helpful that practicing it at LM really does help out! Give 'em a nice up tilt in the kitchen and you're all set to go!
Just realize that most tournaments and stuff ban Luigi's Mansion.

It's called the DDD Infinite, but it doesn't really affect us unless you're not up to par with your grab break skills.

DDD's infinite can't really infinite Mario (and Samus, Luigi) because his D-throw stales out. When it stales, the hitlag (your character lags when you're hit, very obvious when you're hit with something like Ganon's D-air) lessens by about 2 frames. Fortunately, DDD's infinite has to be frame perfect, because the standing grab is only possible by 1 frame.

So essentially, DDD has to D-Throw - > Grab -> Pummel -> D-throw in order for the infinite to work, but since the Pummel animation is so slow (22 frames, almost half a second), it's possible for us to break out with relative ease until about, realistically, 120%.

I'll admit, there's a few things that I probably don't know about situations like this that would help to improve my game. I know it stales out and there's the possibility of escape, though I've rarely escaped it when caught.
Thanks for explaining it for me! I had always been told by people that, once you're caught, there's no escape. But I've ecaped once or twice (God knows how I did it). Though if what you're saying is true, they're wrong!

 

[tc1]

where do you (all of you) counter pick metaknight & marth @?

 

[Matt07]

I counterpick both to FD/SV. I'd avoid YI, and BF versus them.

 

[HeroMystic]

Marth: Smashville.
Metaknight: Final Destination.

Personally for Marth you should go wherever you're comfortable with. The only advantage Mario has over Marth is fireballs and gimping. I picked Smashville because it doesn't give Marth a statistical advantage.

 

[Veggi]

I choose BF or Delfino against all characters pretty much. I just do best on those stages with Mario. Against Marth and MK it's probably best to go with FD against them because MK and Marth are good with platforms, plus FD gives Mario some more freedom to ***** fireballs.

 

[hippiedude92]

depends on the marth player things like if he loves to OOS DS, you should take him to a flat stage so he doesn't have a platform to land on

but yeah alot better depending on your favorite stage and what not

personally l'd go for lylat, BF and ps1.

for mk kinda varies, if your good at landing that upsmash, ****ing go to halberd kill that nugguh at like 80%

 

[Douhneill]

I have a question about that MK cape/cape glitch thing (i dunno if it has an official name). Has anyone actually bothered to figure out what happens and how it happens? 'cuz I remembered I did some goofing off doing it at one point and I have a pretty okay grasp of what's going on, but I dunno if I should actually bother finishing my 'research' if it's already done or nobody cares.

 

[HeroMystic]

It's called Infinite Dimensional Cape (IDC)

You perform it by using Down-B, then tapping the C-stick upwards repeatedly in quick succession. The more you do it, the longer it lasts.

As for why it happens, that's unknown. Honestly it's just a major program error.

 

[Calebyte]

Actually, I think he's talking about the Mario's "Cape ****" on MK's dimensional cape. If so, FireMario did some research on it and made a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og1fm7xRx_0

 

[Douhneill]

Actually, I think he's talking about the Mario's "Cape ****" on MK's dimensional cape. If so, FireMario did some research on it and made a video.

Yeah. That one. I was asking because if that's the extent to what we know about the glitch, I can tell you that I know a lot more about certain requirements for certain results, but I don't know if it'd be worthwhile to actually finish the research, or even to post what I already do know.

 

[HeroMystic]

Ah, Cape ****.

As far as I know, Metaknight's DC is treated like knockback, and Mario's cape doubles knockback. Since Metaknight goes so fast when DC is used, when Mario's cape is used, the momentum is reversed and doubled, which is how "Cape ****" was created.

It also explains why it doesn't work vertically, since Metaknight's vertical momentum is poor during DC.

 

[Douhneill]

yeah, but there's a few intricacies that I can't really explain, even when he does move horizontally.

For example, after a few hours of testing, I noticed that MK never has any negative results from being caped if he's moving 'backwards'. The 'best' result I could manage was to get MK to end up in the same place he started.

I can't remember if I noticed any differences between if MK appeared on the other side of Mario, or differences from moving right or moving left, but the result of the cape definitely was different depending on timing. And that's why I asked.

 

[Kitamerby]

Actually, Mario's cape multiplies momentum.

MK has an extreme amount of momentum just as he exits the cape, which is immediately reduced a few frames later. Another example of a move with superb momentum at the start that slows down immediately is Link's dash attack. The initial momentum it gives allows him a superb DACUS.

 

[SKidd]

On what [type] of stages does Mario have the advantage?

 

[condemned_soul]

ok i have a question i would like to ask. Does Olimar still have a slight advantage over Mario or could we argue to swtich the match up to 50/50 or possibly a slight advantage for mario?

 

[HeroMystic]

On what [type] of stages does Mario have the advantage?

Mario has a natural advantage on any stage due to his balanced attributes. His "strongest" stage would be battlefield while his weakest would be Jungle Japes. To get an advantage on the opponent you need to send him/her to a "weak" stage.

ok i have a question i would like to ask. Does Olimar still have a slight advantage over Mario or could we argue to swtich the match up to 50/50 or possibly a slight advantage for mario?

Still slight advantage. Olimar's defensive game is just too strong to consider even. Unlike Luigi, Mario can't just plow through it and pop him in the air, though he is certainly capable of approaching.

 

[Calebyte]

Yeah, Oli definitely has a slight advantage. Once you learn the match-up though, it isn't so bad.

 

[condemned_soul]

so would you use a defensive or pressure game against oli

 

[SKidd]

Ok... Characters Mario works well/crappy against?

 

[Calebyte]

@condemned soul: Both really. Try to bait an opening and approach in the air slightly above him. Once you get him off stage he's gimp fodder. Look in the math up thread for more info, this isn't really meant to be a discussion thread.

@SKidd: All Mario's math up ratios are listed here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227291

 

[HeroMystic]

Agreed with Calebyte. Both methods should be used, but most of all you need to be patient and pay attention to pikmin. For instance it's easier to approach Olimar with a white pikmin out while it's quite hard to approach when a purple is out.

 

[condemned_soul]

yeah i checked around in the olimar thread to see how they would approach mario and learn a few things. I also decided to start playing wifi to keep on working on skills i need to accomplish. sadly all i ran into so far were 7 MK mains and a falcon -_-.

 

[smashking420]

What is a good startegy aginst Zelda for approching, defending, and camping?

 

[Calebyte]

What is a good startegy aginst Zelda for approching, defending, and camping?

You don't ever have to approach Zelda, seriously. Zelda seems like she's a good character, until you realize that she has only like one option for every situation. Just camp and space. If you don't jump into the ****, there's not much she can do.

 

[smashking420]

Ok, thanks.

 

[condemned_soul]

ok i have a question. Is G&W supposed to be able to be gimped or should i get at him another way. if so then how

 

[Calebyte]

Too many match up questions are flooding the FAQ thread. This is why the Match Up guide needs to be finished.

In the meantime guys, the MU discussion threads have plenty of info on matchups. I'd suggest looking for answers there first.

 

[Veggi]

I wouldn't suggest trying to gimp Mr. G&W unless you want to fair him after he has already reached the apex of his up b. You could also try repeatedly knocking him out of his up b when he has the parachute open or knocking him away before he uses his up b. Mr. Game&Watch is probably the hardest character to gimp for Mario. Caping him gives him his up b back and his up b is loaded with invincibility frames. I almost wouldn't even recommend trying to gimp him.