Most Recent Japanese tier list

[Dark 3nergy]

i think their stages they use also play a part in it as well

 

[Hive]

Did anyone else notice that Samus was translated to "Thumbs" in the OP or is it just me?

Its a hint for the next metroid! team ninja is going to do it with finger puppets

 

[vVv Rapture]

Its a hint for the next metroid! team ninja is going to do it with finger puppets

Or that you have to use your thumbs more -> hinting at 3DS Metroid.

Metroid Dread lives!

 

[PD4FR]

It looks like even Japan couldn't save Ganon.
Just imagine all the Pit dittos, lol.

 

[Aibou]

It looks like even Japan couldn't save Ganon.

At least he's not dead last...

 

[PD4FR]

At least he's not dead last...

Good point. Actually, he's not even last tier anymore!
I respect Japan even more now.

Marth is pretty low, though. I need to check out there neutrals and counterpicks soon, maybe that will explain it.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Did anyone else notice that Samus was translated to "Thumbs" in the OP or is it just me?

it took a little while for us to figure it out actually. I mean who thinks of samus as thumbs?

 

[Aibou]

Pika like wtf low lol

 

[professor mgw]

lol, samus = thumb. lol, samus dittos equal this in japan:

@yonder: look at the brood vs m2k and ally vids...

 

[Hive]

lol, samus = thumb. lol, samus dittos equal this in japan

LMAO!

my visualization was

I'm actually really really looking forward to seeing their pit players though :D I wonder how they have gotten him to compete on that level in their tier listing? I really respect how Brood showed Olimar can compete at that lvl and I'm sure they could show us something new in the pit metagame we haven't seen too.

 

[AMKalmar]

@Hive, look up Masashi.

 

[Silent Beast]

they should have changed it so you could log on.......

DEHF and I both have accounts there and so does kadajj as of yesterday

So you were able to register without ever seeing the cell phone-email page?

 

[Hive]

@Hive, look up Masashi.

I am actually pretty kwl, I really want to see how he does against some of the us players. I can't wait til the sun rise tournament in April though, that's way too far away. Think we can convince Congress to make daylight savings time take off like 7 months this November?

 

[Arc_Revived]

Lets look at this a little closer...

Ruleset:

Japan's ruleset is different than ours. Namely in the LGL and time out rule. The timer is set to ten minutes and to judge a winner if a game goes to time, is based off of the amount of airtime each player has. The person with the most, loses.

The LGL also affects the tier list quite a bit. There is no limit to how many times a player can grab the ledge, which is why characters who can utilize it well (MK/Pit/ROB), especially against high tier characters who have trouble against said characters on the ledge (Diddy/Falco/IC).

Stages:

Stages also affect the tier list. Japanese players do not have Counter-Pick stages like we do. They play, if I remember correctly, on three stages (BF/FD/SV). This weeds out all the random factors and stage advantages for some characters, leaving them to fight only on neutral stages.

Tournament Prizes:

The Japanese aren't allowed to gamble by any means. In fact, I think it's illegal. This changes the mindset of the typical Japanese player. They fight purely for honor and to be the best, and not competing for money, means they are less inclined to play campy, or time people out.

Community Size:

The Japanese community is considerably smaller than that of the American/European scene. There are less tournaments, less people and they are stationed in a few key regions. So naturally, the talent pool is smaller, but that doesn't mean that there aren't amazing players. Which I'll follow up with...

Tournament Results

Results always factor into tier lists. And Japan is no different. The majority of current top Japanese players are all representing the top tier characters you see in 'S' and 'A' tier:

Masashi- Pit/MK
Akira- MK
Hiko- Snake
Ganbaranai- Falco/Snake
Nagahari- Diddy
Brood and Nietono- Olimar

These are some of the great Japanese players, all representing the top tier characters. Pits placing has a lot to do with Masashi representing him. Winning plenty of tournaments as a result of him.

Hopefully this helps shed some light on the Japanese Tier list. If you have anything to contribute or if you're wondering more about my information, feel free to make some constructive posts ^_^

 

[Blacknight99923]

So you were able to register without ever seeing the cell phone-email page?

yep. at first we did then someone took it down for us (americans in general) when I think it was sweetpea called pickles who is the site manager. I'm guessing they put it back or something once they knew we had accounts.

 

[ChaosDrifter]

fd stagelist makes diddy op, but still not quite as good as MK... lesson learnt?

 

[comboking]

Nice list. Joining that site. The way they make the list is bizarre to say the least.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Stopped reading at Pit in 4th.

LMFAO.

Edit: Continued reading for Additional lolz....

FOX AT TOP OF B?
MARTH IN C TIER LOL.
PIKACHU IN D?
ZELDA IN D?!
DK IN E??!?
SONIC, LUIGI AND NESS IN F??!?

This list is ****ing HILARIOUS.

DK is a low tier. He has decent matchups but 99-1s should automatically put you near ganon. Also, MK ****s on him.

pit is not a ground based character......

Can be in many matchups.

What really irks me is how some people are going OMG WTF WHY IZ X KARACTUR ALLA THE WAI UP HEER AND Y KARICTUR HEAR

The two communities are oceans apart. Sure, they've come into contact many times, but they'll still develop different metagames.

Yeah, but not noticing that yelda is bad???

Lets look at this a little closer...

Ruleset:

Japan's ruleset is different than ours. Namely in the LGL and time out rule. The timer is set to ten minutes and to judge a winner if a game goes to time, is based off of the amount of airtime each player has. The person with the most, loses.

Stages:

Stages also affect the tier list. Japanese players do not have Counter-Pick stages like we do. They play, if I remember correctly, on three stages (BF/FD/SV). This weeds out all the random factors and stage advantages for some characters, leaving them to fight only on neutral stages.

And people ask me why I call the japanese ruleset the worst I have ever seen.

 

[Geddan]

japan has a lot of good olimars, so his placing is understandable.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I highly doubt that this is an "official" tier list before I see some kind of confirmation.

 

[Silent Beast]

yep. at first we did then someone took it down for us (americans in general) when I think it was sweetpea called pickles who is the site manager. I'm guessing they put it back or something once they knew we had accounts.

I tried it yet again this morning and it worked! Awesome. Since they haven't put the phone-email back, other interested Westerners should be able to join.

 

[PottyJokes]

diff between this list and us list is japan focuses on playing out the matches, not running the timer .

 

[Conviction]

I highly doubt that this is an "official" tier list before I see some kind of confirmation.

This is from RAIN I would think its pretty offical.

※基本左右での強さわけはしていません。

S
メタナイト

A
ファルコ　スネーク　ディディー　アイクラ　オリマー　ピット

B
デデデ　ワリオ　フォックス

C
マルス　ゲッチ　ルカリオ　ゼロサム　ロボット　トゥーン

D
ゼルダ/シーク　ピカチュウ　アイク　ウルフ　ピーチ　カービィ

E
ドンキー　クッパ　マリオ　リュカ

F
ソニック　ルイージ　ポケトレ　ネス

G
ガノン　リンク　ヨッシー

H
ファルコン　プリン　サムス



海外勢に日本のキャラランク聞かれたから書いてみました。
一応、自分一人の意見じゃなくて、いろんな人の意見を参考にして作ってあります。

それ以外に何かもっと強いとか弱いとか意見あれば、どんどん教えてください。最終的に海外勢にいおうとしてるんで、みんなの意見でのランクにしたと思ってます。

Still don't believe us?
http://smacom2.mysns.tv/?m=pc&a=page_fh_diary&target_c_diary_id=122169&comment_count=7

I wouldn't waste my time translating it if it wasn't offical...

 

[Blacknight99923]

there is no BBR in japan so there won't ever be anything "official" if you consider what the BBR says to be official.
RAIN made this at DEHFs request after talking to other Japanese players and posted it as a blog.

 

[Conviction]

Yea it's the closest thing to offical as you are gonna get.

 

[GimR]

Think about their rules guys, think about their rules. Battlefiled and FD, Single elimination

 

[Arc_Revived]

I did forget to add Single Elim. There are no Loser's Bracket in Japanese tournaments. So the good players HAVE to be consistent with the obscured, higher tier characters they play.

 

[Feng Shui]

Fox, Pit, and Pika like whoa, the rest not too surprising. Given their ruleset differences and playstyle I can see Fox and Pit, but Pika being so low is a surprise.

Still, not enough difference to freak over.

P.S. Diddy #2 ftw.

 

[Asdioh]

Ganondorf is not in last.

lolollo

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

diff between this list and us list is japan focuses on playing out the matches, not running the timer .

Hey PottyJokes

Please learn to not be a massive scrub before posting here

Would help everyone

Seriously, it's been explained in SO MANY THREADS why this logic is awful.

Think about their rules guys, think about their rules. Battlefiled and FD, Single elimination

DEAR GOD THIS.

The rules are terrible!

I did forget to add Single Elim. There are no Loser's Bracket in Japanese tournaments. So the good players HAVE to be consistent with the obscured, higher tier characters they play.

Single Elimination is bad. Banning all but 3 stages in the game is bad. The japanese should feel bad. Their ruleset is the worst thing to come from japan since Mai-Chan's daily life.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

LOL Thumbs.
That's what I'm going to call Power Suit Samus from now on.

Only 3 stages???

I don't like the stagelist, but I do appreciate them for trying to experiment.

Luigi, Marth, & DK are too low, and Pit and Fox are too high, but what do you expect from results with a stage list like that?

 

[Hive]

I don't see why people are so hard on their tier list :/ I mean we specifically asked them to create one because we were interested, its pretty lame if you guys are just going to compare it to ours and get perturbed over every little discrepancy. The US tier list is flawed too in ways, so its good to see how other countries with evolved metagames like Japan put characters because it maybe gives us insight into what areas of our metagame have room to develop.

Edit: There are definitely things like Diddys placement over Snake, and the change in placings of Olimar and Ike that I think we are just now starting to see in our own metagame.

 

[Dragon]

There was a thread a while ago discussing the brawl metagame over there. Apparently, the reason for Pika's placing is because there's A LOT of Marths.


And the fact that they play more so for honor since there is no prize money probably plays a huge role. Metaknight would probably be frowned upon because he is a "cheap" character.

 

[phi1ny3]

wooooooow, Lucario isn't like low-mid/low tier for once.

Was this made after Apex?

I don't see why people are so hard on their tier list :/ I mean we specifically asked them to create one because we were interested, its pretty lame if you guys are just going to compare it to ours and get perturbed over every little discrepancy. The US tier list is flawed too in ways, so its good to see how other countries with evolved metagames like Japan put characters because it maybe gives us insight into what areas of our metagame have room to develop.

Edit: There are definitely things like Diddys placement over Snake, and the change in placings of Olimar and Ike that I think we are just now starting to see in our own metagame.

loool I loved when someone posted the tier list according to Brazil or something and everyone's like "OMG its so accurate" just because it was relatively similar to the US tier list, when the reality is Japan's metagame is obviously more developed than Brazil's (no offense to Brazil, I'm sure there's talent there too).

You have to take into account that lists do not exactly state something about the CHARACTERS ONLY. If they were able to factually represent character strengths without a degree of inaccuracy and became 100% consistent, there'd be no need for change of a list every once and awhile, so while they do take a character's strengths and lay them out, they in no way look at that exclusively. Things like rulesets, representation, and development/investment of a character will always come into play, and will often cause fluctuations, or in this case when established over a long period of time change the metagame's perception.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi is way too low!!! But that's probably cuz absolutely no one in Japan uses him

 

[Hive]

I love that they play for respect over cash I hope tournaments here are more designed around this in the future, because it seems so often that tournaments end up overpriced. So much of brawl success now comes down to character advantage it would be nice to allow an environment that fosters competition but is priced to allow more casual players and character diversity to have incentive to play too.

 

[UberMario]

Only 3 stages???

I don't like the stagelist, but I do appreciate them for trying to experiment.

I lol'd.

The lack of counterpicks is disappointing, it really messes up the metagame, apparently SSB is Dreamland-only over there if they use this guideline?

 

[Dragon]

I love that they play for respect over cash I hope tournaments here are more designed around this in the future, because it seems so often that tournaments end up overpriced. So much of brawl success now comes down to character advantage it would be nice to allow an environment that fosters competition but is priced to allow more casual players and character diversity to have incentive to play too.

Not like they have a choice lol.

 

[Juushichi]

Well, they don't know how to play the game is all this list sums up.

Hell, didn't our best players beat their best players?

Our two best players got knocked out by one of their top players, in the same tournament mind you.

 

[phi1ny3]

diff between this list and us list is japan focuses on playing out the matches, not running the timer .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijsuAnngSY

If the timer wasn't 10 min I'm pretty sure that would've been a timeout