Most Recent Japanese tier list

[Juushichi]

Oh yeah, to add to what I said.

Brood's accomplishment is a tad bit more impressive when you consider that the Japanese aren't used to our counterpick/stage system in the same way that we are (since we use it).

 

[•Col•]

Our two best players got knocked out by one of their top players, in the same tournament mind you.

And yet he didn't win the tournament.

 

[Dragon]

And yet he didn't win the tournament.

Then by that logic everyone below DEHF sucks because they didn't win the tournament...

 

[•Col•]

Then by that logic everyone below DEHF sucks because they didn't win the tournament...

No, it just means that for whatever reason DEHF played better than M2k that day...?

 

[Dragon]

No, it just means that for whatever reason DEHF played better than M2k that day...?

So what point are you trying to make? That Brood beat M2K and Ally because they were both having an off day? Why won't you give him credit?

 

[Blacknight99923]

the next time I hear budget player cadet just spout these rules suck instead of actualyl discussing the tier list I'm blocking him......


Personally I think this shows what a list could look like without as much MK dominance bar marth and rob being lower. I view characters like pit fox ect are character who have underdeveloped metagame in the US. Therefore in the US they are not as good, but in japan we can see that they are.

this isn't to say that I support pit or fox being higher because of "potential" simply that in a different metagame they are better characters.


and the marth community there doesn't have a lot of knowledge it seems like, Kadaj and I are gonna spruce up their marth metagame!!!

 

[•Col•]

So what point are you trying to make? That Brood beat M2K and Ally because they were both having an off day? Why won't you give him credit?

Uh, I wasnt even really making much of a point in my first post. And I give him credit... o_O I would be willing to accept the fact that he's one of the top players in the world, but I wouldn't say that he's absolutely the best either.

What I REALLY dont get what is with all these people and the Japanese-meatriding. Because whenever I see anyone even mention Japan, there has to be a few people going "OMFG JAPAN DA BESSS EURIOWEJUFIWEFINWEFMW!!!!!11111!1"

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I lol'd.

The lack of counterpicks is disappointing, it really messes up the metagame, apparently SSB is Dreamland-only over there if they use this guideline?

In retrospect, it is lol worthy.

JP Melee uses only FD and BF IIRC.

And the fact that they play more so for honor since there is no prize money probably plays a huge role. Metaknight would probably be frowned upon because he is a "cheap" character.

While soft-bans are effective there, they don't soft ban him.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I guarantee MK isn't soft banned in japan

 

[lordhelmet]

Lol at how low Falcon is

 

[Juushichi]

Uh, I wasnt even really making much of a point in my first post. And I give him credit... o_O I would be willing to accept the fact that he's one of the top players in the world, but I wouldn't say that he's absolutely the best either.

What I REALLY dont get what is with all these people and the Japanese-meatriding. Because whenever I see anyone even mention Japan, there has to be a few people going "OMFG JAPAN DA BESSS EURIOWEJUFIWEFINWEFMW!!!!!11111!1"

Cool projection, bro.

I was responding to someone saying:

"Well, they don't know how to play the game is all this list sums up.

Hell, didn't our best players beat their best players?"

If you want to project telling people not to sleep on other countries metagames and players as meatriding when someone mentions it, you appear to be very afraid, ignorant or a wonderful combination of both.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

LOL Thumbs.
That's what I'm going to call Power Suit Samus from now on.

I don't like the stagelist, but I do appreciate them for trying to experiment.

You know what would be a fun experiment? Banning everyone above Ike in the tier list.

Banning half the game is not "an experiment". It's "hmm, maybe we should go find a different game to play".

the next time I hear budget player cadet just spout these rules suck instead of actualyl discussing the tier list I'm blocking him......

But... But... It's THAT BAD! Really!

So here's some things regarding the tier list.

Fox and Pit... From what I hear, Pit has "everyone who mains me sucks" syndrome; I can very well imagine that he could rise. But that much? Seems implausible. Maybe in an FD-dominated meta? I dunno. But then again, remember that he kinda flat-out dies to MK... What with having a far worse range, more commitment on every one of his attacks, is gimped by MK, and has comparatively mediocre kill moves. Fox... Why the hell is fox mid-low again? I agree that fox is heavily underrated; he has a lot going for him. Sure, a few bad matchups, but he's not a bad char by any means.

DK belongs next to ganon. ESPECIALLY if the only stages are FD, SV, and BF. A 99-1 matchup that pretty much any idiot can win means the character is simply not viable. Going like 70-30 or worse with MK (the matchup is essentially tornado'd) doesn't help you either.

If Zelda is not only higher than sheik but not in bottom tier, then I have my doubts that japan is actually that much better than us. I mean, I really doubt that even a zelda able to sweetspot fair/bair on command would make her a good char; she's still a bad char with no approaches and no ways to force an approach outside of wifi (in wifi, Zelda is easily high tier). Similar with ganon; the theorycraft placing him in dead last is really quite sound. Sure, SideB is great, but you should never land it. Ever.

I can see oli that high, 'specially after watching brood trounce M2K.

No way in hell is marth that low.

 

[ArsArcanum]

Why the hell.
Is Zelda.
Above Sheik.

 

[PottyJokes]

@BPC

when you actually attend tournaments instead of living in a random city in germany and theorycrafting online then you can call others scrub ok bro.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yes, and Ad Hominem is the be-all, end-all of debate. Rather, tell this to Raziek who not only completely agrees with me on these issues, but is also the head TO and best smasher in Nova Scotia.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

LOL I already realized why my post is so hilarious.
Other countries do more experimenting than they do.....

Continue to LOL @ the post.

 

[PottyJokes]

who cares m2k agrees that the jpn ruleset is the best so blah blah

 

[Yung Mei]

Tournament Prizes:

The Japanese aren't allowed to gamble by any means. In fact, I think it's illegal. This changes the mindset of the typical Japanese player. They fight purely for honor and to be the best, and not competing for money, means they are less inclined to play campy, or time people out.

im moving to japan

 

[Chuee]

DK belongs next to ganon. ESPECIALLY if the only stages are FD, SV, and BF. A 99-1 matchup that pretty much any idiot can win means the character is simply not viable.

lol................................

 

[Blacknight99923]

Winning means more in japan


how do I block BPCs posts?

 

[Yung Mei]

Winning means more in japan


how do I block BPCs posts?

user cp->column on left, look for edit ignore list

 

[Gea]

This thread is just one of many that makes me lose respect for certain smashers.

 

[Kuraudo]

Yes, and Ad Hominem is the be-all, end-all of debate. Rather, tell this to Raziek who not only completely agrees with me on these issues, but is also the head TO and best smasher in Nova Scotia.

Raziek needs to come to the West Coast. We'll show the "best smasher in Nova Scotia" how it's done.

/off topic smack talk lol

[EDIT]

ON-topic, this is a very interesting tier list. People who say that this list can't influence our own is lying to themselves. Knowing that Olimar was good already, it wasn't until one of Japan's own came here that America (and to a lesser extent, Canada) got a taste of humility. And it's not just an exception of being a 'hero' player. There were MORE of them back in Japan who didn't go that are good too if I recall.

And here's the kicker. Brood, the Olimar, influenced this tier list by playing by OUR rules. Gluttony defeating Ally in Europe? Influential. Our tier list takes results and the skill levels of players EVERYWHERE into account to accumulate a tier list. Those that scoff at Fox being so high on Japan's list, or Pit being the 4th best...

What's going to happen if Fox or Pit players from around the world (if we ourselves do not step it up) come to play us or we take the fight to them, and all of a sudden those same Foxes and Pits are going farther than anticipated?

Raziek, your mockery of the placings in Japan's tier list may be on to something. Just the same as we here in North America have pushed the envelope on Sonic's potential to go beyond those low tier expectations that Japan holds for the hedgehog. We help Japan, Japan helps us. The world helps one another in helping solidify a competitive standard of a tier list. The rulesets do not seem to limit our players as Japan transferred over well to our standards. Do we go and play their game and try the same thing? What'll happen?

Don't hate. Observe and wonder. That's what you have to do when looking at this tier list. Or any list in general established across the world.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

lol................................

I don't see what's so funny. DK is simply not viable as a character. If you go exclusively him in a tournament, your chances of winning are approximately 0. I mean, if the tier list respects how good a char is with tons of secondaries...

@Potty: yes, even more reason to consider it bad. Remember, this is M2K we're talking about.

 

[AllyKnight]

GLutonny beat me cuz of annoyance in the room, otherwise I would have played like WFS and MM -.- headphones are coming anyhow I hate playing these days.

 

[Kuraudo]

GLutonny beat me cuz of annoyance in the room, otherwise I would have played like WFS and MM -.- headphones are coming anyhow I hate playing these days.

I'm sure there were factors involved that didn't let you play at 100%, but fact of the matter is that other locations in the world play a great influence on our tier list as a whole. At least, in my humble opinion.

 

[Masky]

Who plays Wario in Japan? Any good players?

 

[Silent Beast]

Nietono is the name of another top Japanese olimar who beat RAIN in grand finals last tournament at the end of august I saw

Just thought I'd point out that Nietono won Set 1 of GF. Rain did still win Set 2 and the tournament. What you said wasn't exactly wrong, just thought I'd clarify it.

But seriously, Pit > Falco? That's kinda hard to believe if you ask me.

This is from RAIN I would think its pretty offical.

※基本左右での強さわけはしていません。

This part means that he didn't order the characters within the tiers.

Think about their rules guys, think about their rules. Battlefiled and FD, Single elimination

I did forget to add Single Elim. There are no Loser's Bracket in Japanese tournaments. So the good players HAVE to be consistent with the obscured, higher tier characters they play.

I remember hearing that they only do single-elimination for side tourneys, like doubles, though I don't remember where I heard that, I'm not sure if it's true, and maybe they do actually have some single-elimination tourneys. That said, they definitely have double-elimination tourneys. As I mentioned in my response with regards to Nietono vs. Rain, they played 2 sets of GF at Numabura Season2-2, which would only happen in double-elimation tourneys. The results that Suinoko has provided us are also clearly from double-elimination tourneys:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11093924&postcount=1
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11252682&postcount=1

 

[Blacknight99923]

http://livetube.cc/Rain0314/SSBBX(RAIN)

live stream for a tournament, just friendlies right now by the looks of it

 

[TheLastCacely]

pit and marth need to switch spots, then i will agree with the top 7.

 

[Zephyros]

A good friend of mine is a pit main, so he loves to hear that somewhere, pits are excelling. It provides hope that someday pit can move up stateside.

Also, is there a place where you can read the differences between the american and japanese rules? He want to see why exactly Pit is so hot in other areas.

 

[Blacknight99923]

the character is actually developed. Pit isn't developed here.

 

[Meru.]

@Potty: yes, even more reason to consider it bad. Remember, this is M2K we're talking about.

Yes, and Ad Hominem is the be-all, end-all of debate.

GLutonny beat me cuz of annoyance in the room, otherwise I would have played like WFS and MM -.- headphones are coming anyhow I hate playing these days.

Europeans are so quiet compared to Americans, how can you even say this?

And still it isnt even a good excuse...

ON-topic, this is a very interesting tier list. People who say that this list can't influence our own is lying to themselves. Knowing that Olimar was good already, it wasn't until one of Japan's own came here that America (and to a lesser extent, Canada) got a taste of humility. And it's not just an exception of being a 'hero' player. There were MORE of them back in Japan who didn't go that are good too if I recall.

And here's the kicker. Brood, the Olimar, influenced this tier list by playing by OUR rules. Gluttony defeating Ally in Europe? Influential. Our tier list takes results and the skill levels of players EVERYWHERE into account to accumulate a tier list. Those that scoff at Fox being so high on Japan's list, or Pit being the 4th best...

What's going to happen if Fox or Pit players from around the world (if we ourselves do not step it up) come to play us or we take the fight to them, and all of a sudden those same Foxes and Pits are going farther than anticipated?

Raziek, your mockery of the placings in Japan's tier list may be on to something. Just the same as we here in North America have pushed the envelope on Sonic's potential to go beyond those low tier expectations that Japan holds for the hedgehog. We help Japan, Japan helps us. The world helps one another in helping solidify a competitive standard of a tier list. The rulesets do not seem to limit our players as Japan transferred over well to our standards. Do we go and play their game and try the same thing? What'll happen?

Don't hate. Observe and wonder. That's what you have to do when looking at this tier list. Or any list in general established across the world.

What he said.

 

[King Funk]

Europeans are so quiet compared to Americans, how can you even say this?

And still it isnt even a good excuse...

It's true europeans are quieter than americans, but we can't really deny we were really hyped as **** when we realized Glutonny could actually win the tournament.

But then, should Ally have played like in WF's or did Glutonny just adapt to that in GF's?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't understand the surprise of Pit being #4. If there was a Pit player here at M2k's level or something placing constantly and very well with Pit (top 3) we'd probably consider Pit to be a top character. There would be players jumping to imitate him. Pit would develop. Pit would remain strong, because he is more developed than other characters.

We don't have that here, so Pit isn't seen as being very good. It's normal. The lack of communication between the east and west doesn't help the situation. Pit is probably pretty good once a stacked player uses him. Hell, a lot of characters probably are (looking at you Fox).

 

[Raziek]

Two things to clear up, since I briefly AFK'd this thread.

#1 I'm not hating it, I just think it's amusing how drastically different our perceptions of characters are. I feel a lot of it lies in the rulesets.

#2 I'm not the best Smasher in Nova Scotia, stop trumpeting me like that BPC. I'm Top 3 for certain, but it's debatable who is the best between myself, Billy, and recently, Croi. (Our Wario main)

 

[iFudge]

im laughing the kids who think japan plays for honor and doesnt camp and they hate mk

when there's so many vids on youtube of jpn players camping mad hard. and heck even rain had a pocket mk :O.


but good work on the site guys.
and i honestly think that majority of the ppl who main pit in the usa. aren't really good skill wise.

and the marths overthere cant space for crap :O

 

[Blacknight99923]

their marths don't have a good marth player to like give them a direction they don't use their options correctly. Kadaj and I are going to try to help them though.

 

[Life]

So Japanese Marth = American Pit?

 

[~Radiance~]

LOL pikachu

guess the CG dosent exist there or what?