New *neo* FALCON STAGE DISCUSSION (C-c-c-castle Siege)

[Darxmarth23]

This stage doesn't favor my play style very much. But it fits well with others. Abusing the lower platform and turning the lava into your favor can be key to winning in this stage.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

they say this stage helps campers(not to be confused with planking) but I bring campy players to this stage (snake, falco, etc). I also enjoy abusing the platforms since uair is fast and wide

 

[talkingbeatles]

I played a couple of matches here tonight and found out some cool stuff.
You guys are right. Bottom platform is where it's at. You can really control the game pretty well from down there.
Pokemon Trainer is tough here. I don't know if anyone has mentioned that. Charizard's aerials are hard to deal with, I feel. Also, because of how he functions in the air, I'd say Lucario is a bad person to bring here.

I tried throwing out some Falcon punches for the hell of it, when the lava wall came around, and I got trashed. No go, I'd say. Cool thought though.

 

[Winnar]

I played a couple of matches here tonight and found out some cool stuff.
You guys are right. Bottom platform is where it's at. You can really control the game pretty well from down there.
Pokemon Trainer is tough here. I don't know if anyone has mentioned that. Charizard's aerials are hard to deal with, I feel. Also, because of how he functions in the air, I'd say Lucario is a bad person to bring here.

I tried throwing out some Falcon punches for the hell of it, when the lava wall came around, and I got trashed. No go, I'd say. Cool thought though.

The theory is sound, that less than spectacular players will be at least slightly distracted by the lava, so they will probably make a mistake when trying to get to the only safe platform. Usually this is a good time to go for a knee (either towards the lava for a beautiful lava combo or off the stage for maybe a kill)

It's not guaranteed though and likely your opponent will try to take advantage of the limited mobility as much as you will.

Also yeah Charizard's u-air outprioritizes all but the most well timed of d-airs. And even then you just trade hits and get sent in opposite directions. Just air dodge through him or away from him. When you're above Charizard do not try to hit him

 

[Iwan]

Praxis found (and relayed to me) a very cool "Falcon specific" trick on Norfair. There are FIVE ledges in total on Norfair, and if you stand on the very inner ledge of either:

-the mid left platform, or..
-the mid right platform...

You can falcon kick, and instead of lasting the normal amount of time, it for some reason continues on with it's attack/flame animation longer than usual. Then once you reach the end of the OPPOSITE PLATFORM (example: FK from inner mid left platform and reach the outer ledge of the mid right platform).....falcon auto grabs the ledge.

Basically, you falcon kick from the inner ledge to the outer ledge extremely fast and can auto grab the ledge for invincibility frames.

hit and run on this stage, anyone?
lol.

 

[Winnar]

Praxis found (and relayed to me) a very cool "Falcon specific" trick on Norfair. There are FIVE ledges in total on Norfair, and...

lol.

Don't you mean SIX ledges?

 

[talkingbeatles]

Okay. This Norfair **** has gone on LONG ENOUGH! !!
Say your piece, I'm a'changing it soon.




!!EDIT!!

Okay, I know what you guys are thinking.
"Aero Dive? What the ****? Why are we discussing this?"

Well, it is on the bottom of the SBR's counter/banned stages list. I mean I've never heard of any tourny allowing it, but you never know...

It's also Falcon's closest stage to being playable in a tournament, and I figured it'd be fun to talk about.
I say, as far as strategy goes, you just wait until the cars come by, and jump in to one, kicking the driver out. Then you can just perform Falcon's Final smash over and over again.

 

[Sph34r]

Well... there's a set amount of hitstun (I think) when you get launched from when the ground is "moving", so you can use that to combo into something. I once had someone get launched from the ground and while he was still in hitstun I used side b to spike him into the ground again (would've been better if the stage had transitioned to a part with no ground during the spike).

The stage is good though. Falcon is heavy and won't die at like 100% from the cars or anything. People with crappy up b's get screwed over by the lack of ledges on some parts if it ever comes to that, and on parts with ledges a falcon kick can usually cover the entire platform and auto sweet spot the ledge for hit and run tactics (by that I mean when the ground is "moving" and you just have the one floating platform).

You also have natural camouflage when the cars are coming by... lol

 

[lusiris]

Truth be told I have only played this stage like twice. It seems like this stage would benefit anyone fast because you will be mostly focusing on the stage's antics. Not much else because I don't really like the stage and know it won't ever be chosen in a tournament.

 

[Winnar]

If you go to a tournament with this not banned then try to mutually ban aero dive. Nobody wants to play this stage because it is terrible.

If someone CP's you here then I guess just run away during all the car parts, falcon is fast enough to run away pretty easily and this is a large stage at most parts.

The only thing that I remember is that wall that pops up on the left has a ridiculously large hitbox and comes out of nowhere.

Why are we discussing this stage? Are there really no other stages left to discuss?

Edit - WHAT We're discussing Port Town Aero while there are still like 3 neutrals and like 15 CP's to talk about?

...Seriously? ZIS IS AN OWTRAAAAAAAAGE

 

[talkingbeatles]

If you go to a tournament with this not banned then try to mutually ban aero dive. Nobody wants to play this stage because it is terrible.

If someone CP's you here then I guess just run away during all the car parts, falcon is fast enough to run away pretty easily and this is a large stage at most parts.

The only thing that I remember is that wall that pops up on the left has a ridiculously large hitbox and comes out of nowhere.

Why are we discussing this stage? Are there really no other stages left to discuss?

Edit - WHAT We're discussing Port Town Aero while there are still like 3 neutrals and like 15 CP's to talk about?

...Seriously? ZIS IS AN OWTRAAAAAAAAGE

Meh. It was just for fun. I'm gonna change it tomorrow.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Falcon kick into the bumpers.
Recovering through the bottom is nice.

 

[kamimari36]

Yesterday was tomorrow, TalkingBeatles.
LIAR!
jk

 

[Red-Blue]

I want 75m next, not even kidding.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Do it to it.
An underplayed stage, but I think it's pretty **** fun.

 

[lusiris]

HYES!
Yoshi's Island Melee is a pretty good stage with a walkoff on one side and pipes on the other. It can be used to counteract campers but chain grabbers can just kill you instantly here. I would use it for a few characters like Olimar. Also we should probably finish Starter/ counter stages first before moving on to the less used stages or banned stages as we want to prepare people for tournaments.

 

[talkingbeatles]

I have changed the stage to a more counterpicky stage.
Behold....
PICTOCHAT!!!

Discuss, yes?

 

[Darxmarth23]

This stage is crap

/end discussion

 

[talkingbeatles]

I actually really like this stage, regardless of whether Falcon should play on it or not. The neutral beginning of it is not something Falcon does well on, I know. But if you familiarize yourself with all of the changes in geography, you can have a serious advantage. For instance, you can hit through those spikes, always look to throw or hit into the plant, the fire is annoying, but only does one damage per hit, and can actually put you in a better position then before, and I think you can Falcon punch through that Whale.
Stuff like this is nice to know. Falcon also does very well when ever the stage changes to multi-platformed.
Keep in mind that the bottom of the stage is very close. I have never been gimped though trying to get back. You can easily chase and expect to come back safely.

 

[t3h n00b]

I think it would be better for the thread to cover all the starter stages first, the ones that people have more experience on and would play on more. In terms of Pictochat, I find the stage interesting, but not really advantageous or not. The random stage objects with hitboxes benefit who uses them better, and the stage is basically a smaller Smashville in its beginning stage. There are better stages for Falcon, and I don't know who would CP there (and even if it's a CP everywhere, I haven't seen any tourney matches at Pictochat), maybe Kirby?

 

[talkingbeatles]

I'll pick a nice neutral next time, I promise.
On a different note, my friend and I got counter picked with pictochat against a Snake/MK team. My friend went Luigi, and we took them down. The players were bad, (we thought we were getting hustled), so we won, but I don't think Snake has much going for him here.

His recovery does not benefit from the low bottom, and his mines aren't as helpful since the stage changes geography so often. I'd say this is a good place to take Snake, honestly.

 

[lusiris]

I'll pick a nice neutral next time, I promise.
On a different note, my friend and I got counter picked with pictochat against a Snake/MK team. My friend went Luigi, and we took them down. The players were bad, (we thought we were getting hustled), so we won, but I don't think Snake has much going for him here.

His recovery does not benefit from the low bottom, and his minds aren't as helpful since the stage changes geography so often. I'd say this is a good place to take Snake, honestly.

Actually I play snake as my secondary and I find pictochat to be not too bad for him once you understand how the stage works you can easily put it to your advantage. The stage to beat snake is easily Rainbow Cruise so really I don't see this stage benefiting Falcon in any way other than the chaos it can cause. So if you like this stage and want to use it then go ahead but I think there are other stages he could be using that would benefit him more like Rainbow cruise against snake and some of the more campier characters along with chain grabbers. That's just my preference though.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Interesting perspective lusiris.

I want to take the a look at every single change the stage goes through, and analyze it a bit. I think I'll post that up later tonight or maybe after this weekend. I'd really like to get discussion going in this thread. I would say 'again,' but we've never had a lot.
People just don't like discussing stages apparently.

 

[Noodlehead]

Ths is like a Final Destination except random drawings show up , it's the length of Battlefeld, and the lip is different. Drawings that just get in your way are the tree, the head and hand, and the whale. The fire damges you for a few seconds deending what damage you have, and where you hit it. The wind pushes you to the ledge. The roller coaster or wagon hurts, although you can jump on top of it. The box stairs can trap you, but you can escape it. It also keeps enemies out for a while. The ship does the same. There are also spikes, you know what spikes do.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

this stage isn't tourney legal in nyc so idk what to say.
I like jumping on the cart and taunting though

 

[T.REX]

I havent read every post, but im gonna say a bit about lylat cruise (dont think its been covered)

I've been maining falcon for a while now, and I think this is an awesome CP (depending on your opponents character), it has platforms, which falcon loves, slanted ledges for the mock waveland dohicky, and the ledges are great for stage spiking with the falcon dive, they're also easy to avoid getting caught under while recovering (some characters are really prone to this)

I owe many victories in tournament matches to this stage.

the music/background are awesome too :D

 

[DarthLuigi36]

Pretty sure it doesn't matter, but there is a cool trick when the boat appears.

Stand on the waves that are under/inside the boat drawing, facing left, and falcon kick. Falcon will ride the waves, and it looks really cool.

I personally use this stage as a CP, but only because I think it's super-fun.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Okay...
as I promised, a nice neutral stage.

Discuss!

 

[LuLLo]

I really like Lylat for Falcon, the platforms are really close which limits your opponents options (and yours, if you play this stage wrong. Also helps against projectiles due to the stage trippin' out, but you should be wary of auto-cancelling aerials, which this stage also screws up sometimes. Overall a nice stage for Falcon, but the things he has going for him also can be used by his opponents, except for the projectile-advantage. Although, some characters haven't got a good platform game like Falcon, so take those there (figure out which ones yourself, I'm tired...)

Verdict: Play, but be wary

 

[Player-3]

Personally, i hate this stage

the tip always tips away fom me when im recovering, and towards my opponents
like yoshis, they get saved when i never do

 

[meta wolfondorf]

i rock as c. falcon

well fd isn't as bad as you think for c. falcon i've won every match there

 

[Player-3]

your playing bad people then

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

ive won every single match on temple. true story

 

[Player-3]

ive won every single match on 75m

 

[DarthLuigi36]

Lylat Cruise is a mixed bag. It has the platform fun of Battlefield, but it's more lengthy, allowing more projectile use. I like that Falcon's up tilt and up smash hit through the platforms. It's certainly a good counterpick choice, but not as universal as Battlefield may be.

And the tipping of the stage is honestly just a luck factor if you keep getting janked by it... >_>;


I say pick it, but be wary of who your opponent is.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Let's try not to spam people. Lylat is the topic of discussion. Wolfondorf, if you have qualms with how we've addressed Final D, then please PM me, or we can re discuss the stage if enough people think it's a problem.

An important bit to remember about Lylat is the constant tilting of the stage, obviously. Falcon can get gimped by this, but not as easily as other characters. Look for who gets ****ed over more by this stage.

 

[Player-3]

thats why i said personally i have horrible luck with stages

but i can see how it would be good agaisnt alot of people, namely ness and lucas , tether recoveries, etc

 

[DarthLuigi36]

Actually, would this stage maybe be good to CP against Zero Suit Samus? I haven't ever played against a ZSS main before, but would maybe the platforms screw up her plasma whip combo crap? Or would it maybe help her? (I honestly don't know >_> )

 

[Player-3]

i like bf agaisnt zss

i like bf agaisnt everyone actually

 

[lusiris]

God I personally hate this stage it seems to hate me and tilts and kills me when I am trying to recover so I hardly use it. It does have potential and I could see it being used against spammers pretty well and it can provide some good mindgame potential so I say go for it if you like the stage.