New *neo* FALCON STAGE DISCUSSION (C-c-c-castle Siege)

[talkingbeatles]

uh... Smashville.

Go!

 

[Red-Blue]

This stage is not bad for Falcon, but it's better for others characters than it is for Falcon. Atleast, that's how I feel. I still like the stage, though.

 

[lusiris]

Love this stage! Easily my favorite stage for neutral stages Falcon can excel here with use of the moving platform and using it for tons of unpredictability. The balloon is awesome and I usually bait people into attacking and follow up after that.

 

[t3h n00b]

Smashville is pretty much a smaller FD. The balloon is fun and it makes the knee last longer, but functionally, it doesn't matter. The moving platform doesn't matter too much, but some opponents can camp on it or use it to charge a projectile, and Snakes like to put their explosives there. I like this stage personally, but I don't feel that it has specific advantages or disadvantages really (kind of like Yoshi's Island). The smaller size allows you to chase offstage more if you're into that sort of thing (I am, so I pick this sometimes), but if you prefer fighting onstage, another neutral is a better idea. I don't think this is ever the best stage against any character, but if Battlefield is banned/already played, or if your opponent picks this stage, it isn't half bad.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Yeah. I'm going along with what n00b said. I really do love playing on this stage, but it's not terribly good for Falcon. Not the worst neutral, but certainly not the best. I'd say, it's the most neutral neutral...

If you track the floating platform, it can be used to your advantage, such as helping you recover, or following up opponents landing on it with uairs or the knee.

Also, the way the edges are slanted make it pretty impossible to gimp yourself with Falcon dive, unlike FD.

 

[kamimari36]

The balloon is a lie. It's a distraction, which is good, depending how ADD like your opponent is.
That balloon gimped a PK thunder from Ness once. KO.
The lip is useful too. Falcon Dive stage spike works.
Good vertical killing, Utilt is beast here.

 

[t3h n00b]

Also, the way the edges are slanted make it pretty impossible to gimp yourself with Falcon dive, unlike FD.

I haven't gimped myself on FD in forever. If you Falcon Dive onto the lip, just hold back. It will sweetspot. Although I agree that it's a lot easier to avoid on Smashville.

Good vertical killing, Utilt is beast here.

All of the neutral stages have virtually identical ceilings.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Horizontal blast zone is incredibly close to the stage.

 

[kamimari36]

All of the neutral stages have virtually identical ceilings.

Oops. I wasn't being specific...at all.
I meant on the moving platform. Utilt should cover most of it, and I was speaking horizontally.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Okay... last calls for Smashville discussion. I should have moved on a while ago, I know... but finals. ****.
I'll try to find the time to procrastinate more then five minutes and update stuff.


EDIT:

B-b-b-battlefield!

 

[LuLLo]

My favourite stage in Brawl with almost all characters, I like to pick this very often with Falcon because of the platforms. Other than that, no further comment.

 

[Lionman]

Battlefield is awesome for Falcon

 

[lusiris]

Battlefield is pretty good for Falcon but watch out versing snake here as he can create a good defense here. Other than that its definitely a good stage for Falcon.

 

[t3h n00b]

Platforms are nice, you can even techchase knees here occasionally. I like to Falcon Dive through the platforms if my opponent is sitting there in their shield, and utilt and usmash are also good moves. If you're on a platform, the best idea is probably dropping through and using uair. This is the best neutral for Falcon imo, I'd only strike it against Marth, Ike, Bowser, and other characters that can abuse the platforms well.

 

[Noodlehead]

falcon's best neutral stage, simply because you can abuse his aerials here. if your on top of the platform than you can either bair or uair. you can use drop through fair but you should only use it when your opponent isn't expecting it. if your below your opponent, your best option is probably utilt if not then aerials. this is a good place to avoid campers and chaingrabbers this excludes falco. this is a good counterpick stage too. if you dont then learn to love the platforms

edit: tip you must know- the background has 4 phases

 

[talkingbeatles]

Yeah. I'm agreeing with noodle and n00b. Falcon's best neutral stage. The platforms are wonderful. It make approaching and staying defensive not as sucky. Also, tech-chasing. Yea verily.

You can do cool stuff like falling knees off of the platforms. Those are always fun. Uairs forever on this stage.

+YE OLDE EDITE+


Verily and forsooth, the discussion of the Battlefield has ranged over many a moon and sun. My mind delights much in ye notion of changing topic, anon. Qualms?

 

[Winnar]

Brinstar is cool I guess.

Oh wait no it isn't, Brinstar is so lame.

Don't CP people to Brinstar. The only "trick" I know of for that stage is that if you fast fall an aerial into some of the slopes then you can slide across the stage kind of fast. Might be good for mixups, I guess.

Also if you knee one of the tendrils then you extend the hitbox, but that's not very useful as very few people will be there.

Also also it's not a terrible stage for Falcon, but it's a lot better for like...Ness. And possibly Snake.

I dunno, you can kind of use the stage to run away with b-airs.

 

[Player-3]

I hate brinstar

 

[Noodlehead]

ban it if your playing ness or lucas
:/

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

i like to take ice climbers here.

 

[lusiris]

Wario ***** on this stage but the stage can give a few useful benefits. It does help prevent against chain grabbers and spammers are not that great with the different platforms and slopes. The stage is pretty good against certain characters.
So I would Cp it for Falco, Ice Climbers, DDD, ROB, TL, Pit
Slash it against Wario, Snake, Ness, Lucas

 

[talkingbeatles]

I just played a friend with Luigi and Mario on this stage, and I don't suggest taking either of them there either. Especially Luigi. He rocks this level.

The uneven ground just makes his tornado harder to avoid, I think.

 

[Winnar]

I just played a friend with Luigi and Mario on this stage, and I don't suggest taking either of them there either. Especially Luigi. He rocks this level.

The uneven ground just makes his tornado harder to avoid, I think.

Funny, I just played a pokemon trainer main on this stage today. He did the most ridiculous thing where I was literally TRAPPED in my shield unable to roll away. I was stuck in the little pods part and was shielding his bullet seed, but instead of being pushed away and stuff the tiny lip trapped me in my shield until I finally got shieldpoked.

And then not 3 seconds later I was trapped AGAIN at the same spot with something else he was doing that ended up with me losing the match.

This stage sucks ;-;

 

[talkingbeatles]

I posted Brinstar first thinking that this was going to be a good stage for Falcon, but man.... I've been playing it quite a bit with people, and I always seem to be fighting an uphill battle. (And it's not just because I'm playing Falcon...)

Falcon does not have a reliable aerial to short hop around the stage with, besides his bair, and maybe nair. The knee and dair become hard to autocancel because of the weird geography of the stage, and I always have a problem getting people in the air to hit with uair.

On the plus side, the ugly little flesh strands, holding the stage together on either side doe extend your knees hitbox, and I have used that before to get a kill, but it's hard to do. Falcons' trip animation is long, as is getting up animation. This makes rising above the lava a difficult thing to do, frequently.

 

[t3h n00b]

If you're not using bair to kill, I'd just throw it around all the time on this stage. The variable height of the main platform makes it difficult to do much else. I didn't contribute before because I don't really have much to say... it just seems like there could always be a better stage. I guess this wouldn't be one to ban unless you're against a character who does really well here (people said Ness/Lucas, and Snake has a cg and benefits from the small blastzones). But Norfair is way better for Falcon *cough* suggestion for next stage.

 

[Iwan]

This stage is weird....sometimes I do really well on it, while other times I'll get wrecked. One thing I love is that Up tilt (the move I spam the most. lol) actually kills really REALLY early on this stage. The blast zones are so tiny here that it kills really fast.

Of course, his other moves kill sooner too, which can be a pro...I'm just specifically mentioning up tilt because it's a safe move to use that's easy to connect with fairly often.

I don't like the ground on this stage though, and the size makes the thing that I personally do best (run away) difficult. lol.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Based on n00b's suggestion, we'll start Norfair now.
More like... Nor-unfair...

I'm just kidding. I guess this stage is pretty cool. Discuss now, please.

 

[kamimari36]

Well, from what I heard as I trolled the DK boards,
this- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234821
Maybe there is a slight chance we could do this with Falcon Punch?

On another note, when the moving lava comes in from the sides, and your opponent seems very nervous of the lava, throw out a Falcon Punch. SERIOUSLY. They always seem so sidetracked in dodging the lava, that they walk right into it. Or maybe I fight stupid people.

 

[Winnar]

This stage is actually alright, as far as gay counterpick stages go. Falcon does alright here against a lot of people. Mostly it just takes practice, but running off a platform and u/n/b-airing is really good.

I find that playing semi-defensive here is usually my best bet.

People not to take here: Marth, MK, ...Sheik?

Also lava combos are awesome. I seriously might make a lava combo video if there is enough footage.

 

[t3h n00b]

Yeah this stage is kind of gay, but it's without a doubt Falcon's best stage. Everything being a platform means he can use aerials more, utilt hits above platforms (and usmash and Falcon Dive, probably ftilt angled upward too), and you can Falcon Dive under all the platforms, although the bottom one can gimp you at certain angles, for free damage on a shielding or jumping opponent. Utilt is really the only ground move you need to use here besides jab for grabs and maybe dash attack- this is one of the few stages that Falcon can really control. Utilt and uair deter approaches from above and to the side, and approaching from below is a bad idea for most characters, but Falcon can pull it off.

Things to know that aren't Falcon-specific: The, umm, spraying lava(?) kills really early. What I'm referring to isn't the wall of lava, or the lava that covers the entire stage briefly, but that other kind. Basically, hit an opponent into it at around 100%, and they'll usually die. If you avoid dying to this hazard and get your opponent once, camping the middle platform to exploit the large blastzones is a good idea. The wall of lava doesn't have as much knockback as you may think. Mostly, people die by getting hit after bouncing off of the lava, not from the stage hazard itself. If you get hit into the lava, just uair and you should deter a followup (if timed right), and end the hitstun so you can use your second jump to avoid death at higher percentages.

Really good MKs **** here, but I've played quite a few people that suicided at Norfair with him- one missed shuttle loop or tornado can often lead to SDs with people expecting the lava to be there when they miss, and using their B moves haphazardly. And you (anyone) can spike people through the lava right after it touches them. Say when the lava rises up on all but one platform, the lava can hit them upward, and a spike can actually kill your opponent if done right afterward when they're at a high enough percentage (like on most stages, but people often expect the lava to save them). Basically, there's a small period of time where you can't get hit by the lava twice in. I hope that makes sense.

Getting into the blue escape pod thing is usually not your best option, unless you follow/bait your opponent in and know that you will win a fight inside (just hold A). Being inside the pod while your opponent is outside is a big disadvantage, because all they have to do is shield the lava (despite its giant range, it doesn't really shield poke), and will be able to hit you while you're inside the pod more often than not (so do this to your opponent if you're the one outside, utilt or usmash are best to do this with. Characters I wouldn't take here are Olimar (he can pretty much grab you anywhere on the platform he's on, Snake (he can camp very well here, and utilt is even more dangerous on the higher platforms), and characters who have bad recoveries, as the lava helps them more than you. Ganondorf is especially dangerous here, as he can kill you offstage with a sideB, and get hit by the lava and survive. I wouldn't take him here, or Link, who has great range on the air and ground, and basically losing his only weakness.

Ok, my post is huge. tl;dr- utilt on the bottom platform, use Falcon Dive ALL THE TIME on people above you

 

[Winnar]

Yeah this stage is kind of gay, but it's without a doubt Falcon's best stage. Everything being a platform means he can use aerials more, utilt hits above platforms (and usmash and Falcon Dive, probably ftilt angled upward too), and you can Falcon Dive under all the platforms, although the bottom one can gimp you at certain angles, for free damage on a shielding or jumping opponent. Utilt is really the only ground move you need to use here besides jab for grabs and maybe dash attack- this is one of the few stages that Falcon can really control. Utilt and uair deter approaches from above and to the side, and approaching from below is a bad idea for most characters, but Falcon can pull it off.

Things to know that aren't Falcon-specific: The, umm, spraying lava(?) kills really early. What I'm referring to isn't the wall of lava, or the lava that covers the entire stage briefly, but that other kind. Basically, hit an opponent into it at around 100%, and they'll usually die. If you avoid dying to this hazard and get your opponent once, camping the middle platform to exploit the large blastzones is a good idea. The wall of lava doesn't have as much knockback as you may think. Mostly, people die by getting hit after bouncing off of the lava, not from the stage hazard itself. If you get hit into the lava, just uair and you should deter a followup (if timed right), and end the hitstun so you can use your second jump to avoid death at higher percentages.

Really good MKs **** here, but I've played quite a few people that suicided at Norfair with him- one missed shuttle loop or tornado can often lead to SDs with people expecting the lava to be there when they miss, and using their B moves haphazardly. And you (anyone) can spike people through the lava right after it touches them. Say when the lava rises up on all but one platform, the lava can hit them upward, and a spike can actually kill your opponent if done right afterward when they're at a high enough percentage (like on most stages, but people often expect the lava to save them). Basically, there's a small period of time where you can't get hit by the lava twice in. I hope that makes sense.

Getting into the blue escape pod thing is usually not your best option, unless you follow/bait your opponent in and know that you will win a fight inside (just hold A). Being inside the pod while your opponent is outside is a big disadvantage, because all they have to do is shield the lava (despite its giant range, it doesn't really shield poke), and will be able to hit you while you're inside the pod more often than not (so do this to your opponent if you're the one outside, utilt or usmash are best to do this with. Characters I wouldn't take here are Olimar (he can pretty much grab you anywhere on the platform he's on, Snake (he can camp very well here, and utilt is even more dangerous on the higher platforms), and characters who have bad recoveries, as the lava helps them more than you. Ganondorf is especially dangerous here, as he can kill you offstage with a sideB, and get hit by the lava and survive. I wouldn't take him here, or Link, who has great range on the air and ground, and basically losing his only weakness.

Ok, my post is huge. tl;dr- utilt on the bottom platform, use Falcon Dive ALL THE TIME on people above you

Fighting a good Marth on this stage is like...ugh.

Or a really good Pokemon Trainer. Charizard's u-air out prioritizes EVERYTHING and squirtle's u-air is too fast and has no lag. Ivysaur isn't terrible here either.

Mostly Marth, though. He's a real ***** sometimes. This is one of those times.

I definitely would not call this Falcon's best stage, though. If you have the momentum then it's one of his better stages, but a lot of characters make it next to impossible to regain momentum once you've lost it.

 

[Player-3]

i dun liek it
i cped tenki to it, got *****, never picked it again

i just cant play it

its to... stupid and multiple-jumpy

 

[t3h n00b]

Fighting a good Marth on this stage is like...ugh.

Or a really good Pokemon Trainer. Charizard's u-air out prioritizes EVERYTHING and squirtle's u-air is too fast and has no lag. Ivysaur isn't terrible here either.

Mostly Marth, though. He's a real ***** sometimes. This is one of those times.

I definitely would not call this Falcon's best stage, though. If you have the momentum then it's one of his better stages, but a lot of characters make it next to impossible to regain momentum once you've lost it.

It's better than taking Marth to Battlefield, and Marth can't hit anything below him, which is an easy spot to get to on this stage. How often are you getting hit by Charizard's uair? Priority doesn't even matter in the air, and it hits people above him in the air, which only helps Falcon if he's trying to dair, which is usually a bad idea in general. The idea of this stage is staying on the bottom platform and abusing Falcon's moves that hit above him. If you let the opponent have the bottom platform and approach the same way, obviously you'll get hit by utilts. Every character can do that. You don't really need... momentum on this stage, I really think it's one of the few stages this can take place on, but you can pretty much camp on the bottom platform and deter most approaches. If the opponent has the bottom platform and won't approach, you can at least get to the edge and try to get to them horizontally, rather than trying to beat out their safe utilts/uairs. You can also Falcon Dive under the bottom platform, or any of them, for extremely easy (only invincibility frames will avoid this) and safe (just move to a ledge if you miss) damage.

 

[Player-3]

It's better than taking Marth to Battlefield, and Marth can't hit anything below him, which is an easy spot to get to on this stage. How often are you getting hit by Charizard's uair? Priority doesn't even matter in the air, and it hits people above him in the air, which only helps Falcon if he's trying to dair, which is usually a bad idea in general. The idea of this stage is staying on the bottom platform and abusing Falcon's moves that hit above him. If you let the opponent have the bottom platform and approach the same way, obviously you'll get hit by utilts. Every character can do that. You don't really need... momentum on this stage, I really think it's one of the few stages this can take place on, but you can pretty much camp on the bottom platform and deter most approaches. If the opponent has the bottom platform and won't approach, you can at least get to the edge and try to get to them horizontally, rather than trying to beat out their safe utilts/uairs. You can also Falcon Dive under the bottom platform, or any of them, for extremely easy (only invincibility frames will avoid this) and safe (just move to a ledge if you miss) damage.

O__________________________o

i read that

and pretty much if the enemy is smart theyre not gonna let you get to the bottom platform

unless your metaknight

so yeah, this is not a good falcon stage imo

 

[t3h n00b]

Well, assuming both players are trying their best to only get to the bottom platform, Falcon beats anyone but Sonic. In general, if you're just thinking about spacing or whatever, sure Falcon has terrible range still, but it is so easy to abuse the bottom platform. Someone has the platform (which honestly isn't that hard to prevent)? Falcon can drop to the ledge, and either try to get back as he normally would on any other stage, or use Falcon Dive under the stage, which gives you nothing to lose with the philosophy that being off the bottom platform is losing, and it is extremely easy to give it up on this stage, which I don't believe. Anyway, Falcon Dive can't be punished by anything other than a grab or dash attack for the most part.

 

[Player-3]

Well, assuming both players are trying their best to only get to the bottom platform, Falcon beats anyone but Sonic. In general, if you're just thinking about spacing or whatever, sure Falcon has terrible range still, but it is so easy to abuse the bottom platform. Someone has the platform (which honestly isn't that hard to prevent)? Falcon can drop to the ledge, and either try to get back as he normally would on any other stage, or use Falcon Dive under the stage, which gives you nothing to lose with the philosophy that being off the bottom platform is losing, and it is extremely easy to give it up on this stage, which I don't believe. Anyway, Falcon Dive can't be punished by anything other than a grab or dash attack for the most part.

erm


projectiles

 

[t3h n00b]

Projectiles don't hit under the stage, and you won't get hit on your way to the ledge if you're sweetspotting it. They also don't prevent Falcon from getting to the bottom first, if that's your main goal.

 

[talkingbeatles]

I agree with n00b here. Um, if you're opponent is only worrying about keeping you from getting to the bottom stage, then something is missing in their strategy. Winning.

I don't think people play Falcon in the mindset of "I've to keep him from doing "X," or he'll win." It's hard to keep someone from occupying a specific platform. If that is all that they're trying to do, exploit their single mindedness.

The lava sucks, but this is a nice stage for Falcon, I believe.

 

[lusiris]

Pretty good stage it has tons of elements for Falcon to work with ; lava, platforms and spraying lava. Its a pretty good stage to CP if you know what your doing and like this stage. Don't choose this stage just because it works pretty well against a certain character. Make sure to actually like this stage and you can actually flow pretty well in it. Else you will get by someone who does know this stage better than you. It's not my favorite stage for Falcon but definitely a good one.

 

[Player-3]

i still hate it

almsot as much as frigate o