New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Starphoenix]

You mentioned, or alluded to the notion that this was a third party game. It just reminded me about a debate that I had over golden sun and how I learned the he was actually 2nd. (Who are the 2nd world countries for that matter).

That game started off having a definitive sect, but since that last one, I have no idea where the series is headed anymore. That's the danger of middle ground I suppose, always gotta explain some ****, I mean bring folks up to speed.

I remember lil slime. I also remember how it was suggested that he would be a good SE ambassador to Nintendo. I also remember that the fella can be found in Kirby's Dream Land 3!

But anyhow, I know all about the series popularity in japan. I just wouldn't want to see another Roy/Ike fiasco. It would be nice if the experts on series such as these can come to a consensus on who would make a significant fit. This is why I encourage the conversation to lean this way. Discuss gents.

It would be Slime, he is the mascot of the series. Unlike Gooey from Kirby Dreamland, Slime also can utilize magic. He can also use items and summon other slimes for assistance. He can morph his body to whip and attack people and has been shown to be capable of lifting large and small items. So functionally he CAN work. It is a different situation as he has more tools and functionality to work with.

Dragon Quest as a series is huge in Japan and making some ground overseas. As of the past couple of years Nintendo has taken a personal interest in expanding this series into the West. Out of all of the series in the world they choose Dragon Quest, sometimes they are more proactive in advertising and publishing this series than their own titles... So much so that they are localising the Dragon Quest/Mario crossover board game, Fortune Street: http://youtu.be/EeLjlVutUM0

The reason I believe Dragon Quest fares a much better opportunity than other series bar Megaman is because of Nintendo's continued vested interest in this series. What better way to get people to get a taste of a series better than through Smash Bros? Look what it did for Fire Emblem, Sin and Punishment, and Starfy? Plus it isn't as though it would be a bad choice, such a decision would go over very well in Japan. Heck, they'd probably shut down the entire country just to celebrate... It isn't even as though Dragon Quest would be completely obscure here like Fire Emblem was, as we have had Dragon Quest IV, V, VI, IX, Dragon Quest Monsters, Rocket Slime; and soon to be DQX, Fortune Street, DQM2 and Rocket Slime 2 on the horizon. Which most all of these titles are published/being published by Nintendo!

Don't mistake me, I do not push for Dragon Quest simply because I enjoy the series. Heck, it isn't even my favorite Square series (Mana) or RPG series (Breath of Fire). But I do so because I believe it is a more likely scenario than many other franchises I have seen suggested. I am able to set personal bias aside on issues, but this one is a winning horse in my eyes. I'll leave this quote here from Joystiq.com.

...Speaking of other Dragon Quest games, Nintendo is really serious about this Dragon Quest thing, huh? It published Dragon Quest IX last year, then VI early this year -- and Dragon Quest characters are in both Mario Sports Mix and Fortune Street (also announced at this E3). We never expected to see any Western publisher care this much about Dragon Quest, much less Nintendo.

Watch this video to see Slime in Mario Sports Mix. Watch till about the 2:45 mark. You can get some idea of what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGlE_-FiVdA

 

[Conviction]

LiM8d did you read the article I posted? I hope it cleared some things up

 

[Gamingboy]

You mentioned, or alluded to the notion that this was a third party game. It just reminded me about a debate that I had over golden sun and how I learned the he was actually 2nd. (Who are the 2nd world countries for that matter).

That game started off having a definitive sect, but since that last one, I have no idea where the series is headed anymore. That's the danger of middle ground I suppose, always gotta explain some ****, I mean bring folks up to speed.

I remember lil slime. I also remember how it was suggested that he would be a good SE ambassador to Nintendo. I also remember that the fella can be found in Kirby's Dream Land 3!

But anyhow, I know all about the series popularity in japan. I just wouldn't want to see another Roy/Ike fiasco. It would be nice if the experts on series such as these can come to a consensus on who would make a significant fit. This is why I encourage the conversation to lean this way. Discuss gents.

@Gamingboy: Now that was a little insensitive. I take the time to read everyone else's statements. How about you take some time to read right now.

Okay, I apologize. Now, I have to admit that the Slime is growing on me (that looks weird on the screen), and I totally agree with you that Gooey from KDL3 seems to have totally been inspired by him. But, like you, there are some series that I don't really have the best of knowledge of, so it's hard for me to make cases for what characters would best represent some series such as Dragon Quest, Golden Sun and Fire Emblem.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

One idea I came up with: Have stages have alternates. In some ways, this already happened, as Mushroomy Kingdom was either World 1-1 or 1-2.

But, for example, let's say that there is a "Boxing Ring" stage. This would obviously be a "duh" stage for Little Mac, but it could also have an alternate which makes it DeDeDe's fighting ring from SuperStar and some other games...

Sounds quite suprising. Might fit for Panepon stage where you'll sometimes battle against Yoshi's friends from Tetris Attack instead of Lip's fairy friends.

 

[zkwid]

I'm soooo worried about the controls! I can't play without a GCpad... How do you feel about it? I guess most of you use the GC, right? : (

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Hoots]

To be honest, who the **** plays dragon quest? For a series that they make a hundred games a year for, it doesn't seem to have that classic and well known aura about it. Everything that I hear in support for DQ is from a tiny sect of fans. Not to mention that when they talk about possible reps, they REALLY grasp at straws. In addition, from a company that has WAY more iconic generic characters (chocobo, moogle, black mage) as well as iconic original protagonists (Cecil, Crono, Sora) and a character that is iconic, popular and even in the MARIO universe (Geno), why would Dragon Quest get any representation in Smash? Once again, I don't mean to be a ****(why do I always have to say that?), but I just don't buy it.

Edit: I know it's huge in Japan but Sakurai does care about global popularity, and all the other SE franchises are huge in Japan as well

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm not too into Dragon Quest. I played DQ VIII and thought it was just okay ish... In fact, I kinda regret having shelled out $60 for that game. It was an average RPG experience, but you can't blame me if the very first RPG I played was Chrono Trigger, and no other RPG has ever even come close to it. Ever.

If there's a 3rd party slot to be taken, I'd much prefer the priority to go to the following:

1.- Capcom (Megaman)
2.- Tecmo (Ryu Hayabusa)
3.- Konami (Simon Belmont)
4.- Hudson (Bomberman)
5.- Namco (Sophitia)
6.- SQUARE-enix (Chocobo, Geno, or Mallow)
7.- Sunsoft (Sophia III, Blaster Master)
8.- SEGA (Knuckles or Tails)
9.- Any other 3rd party.
(unlikely in red)

This is just my opinion though. Nothing against Slime / Dragonquest

 

[TBone06]

To be honest, who the **** plays dragon quest? For a series that they make a hundred games a year for, it doesn't seem to have that classic and well known aura about it. Everything that I hear in support for DQ is from a tiny sect of fans. Not to mention that when they talk about possible reps, they REALLY grasp at straws. In addition, from a company that has WAY more iconic generic characters (chocobo, moogle, black mage) as well as iconic original protagonists (Cecil, Crono, Sora) and a character that is iconic, popular and even in the MARIO universe (Geno), why would Dragon Quest get any representation in Smash? Once again, I don't mean to be a ****(why do I always have to say that?), but I just don't buy it.

Edit: I know it's huge in Japan but Sakurai does care about global popularity, and all the other SE franchises are huge in Japan as well

I have to agree with this. Not that I care one way or another, but from what I've read, like Hoots said it doesn't have that well known aura. Not that I think a FF rep will make it instead, or even one of Cecil, Crono or Sora. All I'll say about Geno is that he's from the Mario universe, and he's the only one out of any of these characters to have more than 2 mentions in Sakurai's journal, so clearly he's popular. I just don't get the Dragon Quest hype.

 

[Gamingboy]

As far as the First Parties go, the "popular in Japan/Popular in USA" divide is like this (I'm only including franchises I'm knowledgable about or where there is really no doubt):


Note that just because it is more popular in one, it doesn't mean they are UNPOPULAR in the other.

More Popular in Japan:
Kirby
Mother
Fire Emblem
Animal Crossing
Starfy

More Popular in USA:
Zelda
Metroid
Punch-Out
Star Fox (apparently it used to be Japan, but it's fallen out of popularity there)


Push:
Mario (beloved everywhere)
Pokemon (while the multi-media franchise/empire is more popular in Japan, as far as the games themselves go it's roughly even)

 

[Hoots]

2.- Tecmo (Ryu Hayabusa)
3.- Konami (Simon Belmont)

I love Simon Belmont but Snake already has his slot. If there was to be a SE rep, I'd certainly hope it's Geno. And really? Ryu Hyabusa? In the (extremely unlikely) chance of Ninja Gaiden getting a rep, I'd rather have that chick with the big, greasy jugs.

@Gamingboy: You know who is supwr popular in BOTH Japan and the US and even the UK as well? Professor Layton! Yayuh!

 

[Gamingboy]

I'm not too into Dragon Quest. I played DQ VIII and thought it was just okay ish... In fact, I kinda regret having shelled out $60 for that game. It was an average RPG experience, but you can't blame me if the very first RPG I played was Chrono Trigger, and no other RPG has ever even come close to it. Ever.

If there's a 3rd party slot to be taken, I'd much prefer the priority to go to the following:

1.- Capcom (Megaman)
2.- Tecmo (Ryu Hayabusa)
3.- Konami (Simon Belmont)
4.- Hudson (Bomberman)
5.- Namco (Sophitia)
6.- SQUARE-enix (Chocobo, Geno, or Mallow)
7.- Sunsoft (Sophia III, Blaster Master)
8.- SEGA (Knuckles or Tails)
9.- Any other 3rd party.
(unlikely in red)

This is just my opinion though. Nothing against Slime / Dragonquest

Namco= Pac-Man. Pac-Man fits Smash better than the Soul fighters do, both in fame (he's the only video game character that can be said to challenge Mario in iconicness), and in style (cartoony).

Konami, I think, is unlikely, since they already have Snake in as their guy.

Square-Enix suggestion of Mallow would probably be even better than Geno, since Mallow's stretchiness would make for some interesting possibilities, but Mallow isn't even close to as popular as Geno, who in himself is unlikely.

Although this is just my opinion.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Starphoenix]

To be honest, who the **** plays dragon quest? For a series that they make a hundred games a year for, it doesn't seem to have that classic and well known aura about it. Everything that I hear in support for DQ is from a tiny sect of fans. Not to mention that when they talk about possible reps, they REALLY grasp at straws. In addition, from a company that has WAY more iconic generic characters (chocobo, moogle, black mage) as well as iconic original protagonists (Cecil, Crono, Sora) and a character that is iconic, popular and even in the MARIO universe (Geno), why would Dragon Quest get any representation in Smash? Once again, I don't mean to be a ****(why do I always have to say that?), but I just don't buy it.

Edit: I know it's huge in Japan but Sakurai does care about global popularity, and all the other SE franchises are huge in Japan as well

Enough to make it a global brand. Not saying it is on the same level as others, but it's big enough. No one is grasping at straws, I simply laid out what Slime can do. Just because I have played the games and know what is technically possible doesn't equate to me grasping at straws. I didn't suggest something completely arbitrary.

My whole basis of my argument is that NINTENDO has taken an active role in the series. So you have completely missed the point, your argument isn't even valid to what I was discussing. But in that case, sure they may be more popular. That doesn't mean Slime cannot still appear. You could argue the exact same thing about Konami in regards to Metal Gear Solid and Castlevania. Plus I suggested more than just Slime.

You want to sit there and bash Dragon Quest fans for the very same thing Geno fans did with even less? Live in whatever world you want too but Geno isn't a valid contrast.

So what about global popularity?! Look at how much content we have had in Melee and Brawl that were Japan only at a point. Dragon Quest is well beyond that, it may not be at the forefront like in Japan but it sure as heck isn't as obscure as you want to make it sound.

 

[Gamingboy]

RAAAAAAAAAGE! Ugh! folks don't listen these days!

Sorry, NLIM8d, but with all of the posts that show up in this, sometimes we don't really catch things.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Namco= Pac-Man. Pac-Man fits Smash better than the Soul fighters do, both in fame (he's the only video game character that can be said to challenge Mario in iconicness), and in style (cartoony).

Konami, I think, is unlikely, since they already have Snake in as their guy.

Square-Enix suggestion of Mallow would probably be even better than Geno, since Mallow's stretchiness would make for some interesting possibilities, but Mallow isn't even close to as popular as Geno, who in himself is unlikely.

Although this is just my opinion.

I feel like a lousy gamer for forgetting about PAC MAN of all characters. X_x


Of course Pac Man would be better, he even made that cameo in Mario Kart Arcade.

 

[Hoots]

Enough to make it a global brand. Not saying it is on the same level as others, but it's big enough. No one is grasping at straws, I simply laid out what Slime can do. Just because I have played the games and know what is technically possible doesn't equate to me grasping at straws. I didn't suggest something completely arbitrary.

My whole basis of my argument is that NINTENDO has taken an active role in the series. So you have completely missed the point, your argument isn't even valid to what I was discussing. But in that case, sure they may be more popular. That doesn't mean Slime cannot still appear. You could argue the exact same thing about Konami in regards to Metal Gear Solid and Castlevania. Plus I suggested more than just Slime.

You want to sit there and bash Dragon Quest fans for the very same thing Geno fans did with even less? Live in whatever world you want too but Geno isn't a valid contrast.

So what about global popularity?! Look at how much content we have had in Melee and Brawl that were Japan only at a point. Dragon Quest is well beyond that, it may not be at the forefront like in Japan but it sure as heck isn't as obscure as you want to make it sound.

I wasn't trying to debate your earlier point about Nintendo's involvement and such, just on the series' merit in general. I'm not bashing anyone. Im just saying that grasping at straws can happen when it comes to Smash characters and from what I've seen, it appears to me that grasping at straws seems to happen when it comes to thinking up a DQ rep. I have nothing against the fans, themselves, like I said, I just don't buy DQ as worthy of Smash.

Also, to be fair Geno fans had at least A LITTLE more grounds when Brawl was coming out, what with the high poll rankings and TIEING DEDEDE for being the most mentioned character in Sakurai's journal. I dunno, seems different to me.

 

[Starphoenix]

I wasn't trying to debate your earlier point about Nintendo's involvement and such, just on the series' merit in general. I'm not bashing anyone. Im just saying that grasping at straws can happen when it comes to Smash characters and from what I've seen, it appears to me that grasping at straws seems to happen when it comes to thinking up a DQ rep. I have nothing against the fans, themselves, like I said, I just don't buy DQ as worthy of Smash.

Also, to be fair Geno fans had at least A LITTLE more grounds when Brawl was coming out, what with the high poll rankings and TIEING DEDEDE for being the most mentioned character in Sakurai's journal. I dunno, seems different to me.

That is your opinion, I'll respect that. I think differently. There is no point in arguing over it as ultimately those decisions lie with Sakurai and his team.

Technically it wasn't a poll, just the number of times the character was mentioned. From what I was able to interpret at that time most of those requests came from people asking for "Beware The Forest Mushrooms".

 

[shinhed-echi]

Thank god I really don't care about 3rd party characters. That's why to me it's all the same if we get Slime, Ryu or Travis Touchdown. I won't argue with anybody on that department.

In fact, I don't care about much characters in general. I guess I just REALLY want two or 1st party ones. And also want (but not as strongly) two 2nd party ones. The rest I might not care too much.

I guess if I had to choose a single 3rd party character, I'd choose classic Megaman, because he was basically born on the NES, and had most games there. And most importantly, one of the first (perhaps the 3rd) videogame characters I knew, after Mario and the Duck Hunt Dog.

 

[TBone06]

That is your opinion, I'll respect that. I think differently. There is no point in arguing over it as ultimately those decisions lie with Sakurai and his team.

Technically it wasn't a poll, just the number of times the character was mentioned. From what I was able to interpret at that time most of those requests came from people asking for "Beware The Forest Mushrooms".

I'm pretty sure out of the 5, 1 of them was based on the music, but it was like "how about that music, might as well have Geno as well" the rest of them were for him. Regardless, he did tie Dedede for the most mentions which on it's own is pretty remarkable. I mean granted I know he's not used much in anything anymore, but he still has all that popularity.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Watch this video to see Slime in Mario Sports Mix. Watch till about the 2:45 mark. You can get some idea of what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGlE_-FiVdA

Wow! Are you serious?

I would have never thought to see Slime make an appearance in a Mario game, even if it is spin-off title. You've got me interested.

It seems I underestimated his chances, seeing his inclusion in that game plus with the upcoming Fortunes game, I wouldn't be surprised if he made a guest appearance in Smash, the question now is how would his movesets work?

I know he's a capable Smash fighter, Im just curious to see a moveset is all.

 

[Starphoenix]

Wow! Are you serious?

I would have never thought to see Slime make an appearance in a Mario game, even if it is spin-off title. You've got me interested.

It seems I underestimated his chances, seeing his inclusion in that game plus with the upcoming Fortunes game, I wouldn't be surprised if he made a guest appearance in Smash, the question now is how would his movesets work?

I know he's a capable Smash fighter, Im just curious to see a moveset is all.

I'll PM you later. Since I don't want to post it and have this mess happen again.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Hmm...that's fine with me, heck slime's chances are looking bteter than Megaman's at this point.

Not to say that we aren't going to get both, but seeing that the Dragon Quest series is priority to Nintendo, I can see him as Square's most likely over Geno.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[shinhed-echi]

^Thats a given, glad for that edit, I was gonna cry Deja-vu lol.

Are you sure that Megaman was 'born' on the NES? From what I recall Capcom seems to go about things in a way that they try to get what they can get. The nintendo logo hasn't seemed to tie them down yet. (SFII: Sega & SNES)

If my memory serves correctly, Megaman 1 was not released in arcade. But let's face it:

Megaman 1-7
Megaman & Bass
Megaman Soccer
That Megaman Party NES game
Game Boy Megaman 1-5

(So far 15 Classic Megaman games)

Megaman X 1-3
Megaman Command Mission
Megaman Xtreme 1 & 2

(4 X games)

Megaman 64
Megaman Legends 3

(1 Legends game, and a half)

Megaman Zero 1-4
Megaman ZX & ZXA

(6 Zero /ZX games)

Battle Network 1-6 (plus the two different versions for the last two games)
Battle Network Transmission

(over 7 Battle Network games)

Star Force 1 & 2 (and I think there's a 3)

(3 Star Force games)

That's around... 36-37 + 1/2


I think that's a lot of games, one of those series is pretty much exclusive, and two of them ARE exclusives. (Haven't counted compilations)

 

[Peach Kong]

Another Mario game that Slime appeared in was Itadeki Street, a Japan only game for the DS released in 2007.

Considering that Slime is also appearing in Fortune Street, which looks to be an international game, I'd say Slime's the best choice for a Square Enix rep.

 

[Conviction]

Pac-man...someone explain this to me

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What's the problem with clones as long as 1 doesnt end up to be superior over the other? I wouldn't mind if they added Paper Mario, Dixie and that blueshirted Kong and Dark Samus if they were clones of Mario, Diddy, Donkey and Samus

Hell you could even make King Krool a Bowser clone with fire breath and all and it would be better than not having him at all.

K. Rool would not be a Bowser clone, since he lacks the ability to breathe fire. Besides, he's more than capable of having his own moveset; Blunderbuss Final Smash would be crazy.

The same also applies to Dixie, who doesn't even have access to Diddy's Barrel Jet.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I really hope they implement the DKC2 form of coplay for Diddy and Dixie.

Personally, I'd prefer that they're solo.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I really hope they pursue implementing the DKC2 form of coplay for Diddy and Dixie. However difficult.

Well if you're talking about SSE co-op then I wouldn't mind so much, but regular play?.. Not really, as an option I guess..

As for Megaman we can pretty much say he started out in Nintendo and most of his are on Nintendo platforms, his ties with Nintendo are also good, just not as good as Sonic's for example who has been in a Nintendo branded game

 

[BirthNote]

I really hope they pursue implementing the DKC2 form of coplay for Diddy and Dixie. However difficult.

I think it would be better if those kongs were solo. I mean, they both proved that they could star in their own games (Diddy's got DKC2 and Diddy Kong Racing, Dixie's got DKC3), and they've hardly gone on adventures together--DK and Diddy have been on more adventures in the DKC series alone as well as other DK games and Mario spinoffs. TBH, a DK/Diddy team could be just as likely, and since all 3 of these kongs proved that they aren't sidekicks, its kinda strange to treat them as such. Wouldn't they be better off on their own?

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Excuse me? read that back, something about that doesn't sound right.

The reason why I mentioned it is because Sonic nowadays is clearly being marketed with Nintendo alongside Mario nowadays, an example of this would be Sonic & Mario at the Olympics, as opposed to Megaman who isn't in direct connections with Mario, but to the point Megaman's chances are pretty much high even if he isnt in direct ties.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Gamingboy]

It should be noted that Mario Wiki has a entire category on 3rd parties that appeared in Mario games or media. Note that some of them don't actually count, for example Mega Man is there because he appeared in some German comics made by their equiv. of Nintendo Power back in the day.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Spoiler

Perhaps this is because megaman has learned to stand on his own two?

You are correct in the sense that the two icons won't even try to acknowledge one another

Well I would say that, but I guess it makes sense. :/

What do you want to see in SSB4?

Like Ive mentioned, I would love the custom music option via an SD card for stages, I'd would love to be able to give a stage a perfect song that would feel right for it, plus it would make for some hilarious matches, just a thought.

Also possible DLC like extra stages, songs, modes, and possibly another
character or two would be nice.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Well I would say that, but I guess it makes sense. :/

What do you want to see in SSB4?

Like Ive mentioned, I would love the custom music option via an SD card for stages, I'd would love to be able to give a stage a perfect song that would feel right for it, plus it would make for some hilarious matches, just a thought.

Also possible DLC like extra stages, songs, modes, and possibly another
character or two would be nice.

I don't know but I'm quite sure we are seeing a great change in the gameplay mechanics .....atleast in the 3DS version...

 

[OmegaXXII]

It should be noted that Mario Wiki has a entire category on 3rd parties that appeared in Mario games or media. Note that some of them don't actually count, for example Mega Man is there because he appeared in some German comics made by their equiv. of Nintendo Power back in the day.

Spoiler

Very interesting indeed, Kirby even mentioned that he wanted to be like Megaman according to the trivia.