Official PAL Tier List (Melee)

[Quetzalcoatl]

I find it amusing that the character who was changed for the worst the most jumped ahead of 2 characters when compared to the NTSC tier list. Sheik's matchups against Marth and Peach are undeniably less favourable than in the NTSC version the difference between the uair's KOing power is immense, and of course there is the down throw, sure you can follow up with dash attacks tech chases and the likes, but in NTSC it sets up for sure kills.

The difference in the up b length on fox is very very small, and the weight difference is laughable, i've tested this and its usually a difference of 1-2% in being KO'd at the usual KO percentages. The biggest difference is the upsmash which again, hurts marth and peach a lot less in the PAL version. Sheik of course benefits too, in fact it has probably turned out that sheik's match with fox is more favourable in pal because uair is a better comboer, and she dies from usmash on higher percents. Her dthrow wasnt a factor in the matchup in the first place. But this isn't nearly as much of a difference as sheik's matches with marth/peach

Basically on comparison to ntsc we have:
- marth, peach and falco's matchups between eachother remain the same basically
- marth, peach does better in pal than ntsc against sheik by a noticable amount
- marth, peach, sheik does better against fox in pal than ntsc by a small amount (upsmash)
- fox vs falco is relatively the same
- falco vs sheik is relatively the same

so how does sheik jump over 2 characters when she does worse against marth/peach, the same against falco and very slightly better against fox?

If this is a case of regional play style differences then this should be a European tier list and not a PAL one.

 

[Helios]

Quetz - It's painfully obvious that you aren't too familiar with high level play.

The extra distance in fox' up-b gives fox another try or two at getting back, when in PAL he'd just get edge hogged.
The added weight means a better angle at which you get sent from various killing moves, and it also enables you to CC moves at higher %.
The weakened u-smash in combination with the now widespread use of smash DI means fox' options for killing off his opponent are few in numbers.


Oh and one thing I'd like to address:
The differences in tiers that you see when comparing the NTSC to PAL lists aren't mainly due to the differences in game versions, but more because of our differences in actual playing styles or even knowledge of the game.

 

[Marc]

Australians voted as well, and the US tier list isn't FACT. I'd even go as far as saying this list was backed much better, since most good PAL players voted. There's also been some doubt in the MBR recently, M2K made a thread in which he said Sheik should be #1 there as well and put forward some good arguments.

Personally, I'd say the entire top tier hardly differs in tournament potential and even some high tier characters are very tournament viable. It's true that Sheik players have to try a little harder in PAL, and her match up vs Peach has gone down to being pretty much even. She has a better time against Fox and it's about the same vs Falco and Marth really. Playing styles have been adapted to the differences as well, so I don't think it's that weird for her to be on top here.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

The extra distance in fox' up-b gives fox another try or two at getting back, when in PAL he'd just get edge hogged.

All i said was that the difference was very very small.

The added weight means a better angle at which you get sent from various killing moves, and it also enables you to CC moves at higher %.

It's still a small difference, your crouch cancel will break 1% earlier than usual if at all. All this data was linked from the PAL / NTSC differences archive (which I did) however the link is now broken.

The weakened u-smash in combination with the now widespread use of smash DI means fox' options for killing off his opponent are few in numbers.

I know, i said that..

Unless i've made some oversight there is nothing incorrect about what i said in my post. None of it is my opinion, I was merely pointing out the major differences and and comparing it to the US tier list and stated that it was amusing...

Australians voted as well

It is still largely European based, but moreover my point was that this is a regional play-style list for Europe and there is nothing wrong with that, Australia is an outlier and its scene is very small in comparison.

I agree it isn'it weird she is top, but it is still amusing when you compare the US tier list with the PAL changes and tier list excluding regional playstyle differences and disputes surrounding the current tier list.. (which is what the entire previous post was about).

 

[Helios]

Oh, I agree, it is amusing indeed. Mainly because we all agree how wrong the american list is, rather than the actual changes in themselves.

So yeah, we rock ^___^

 

[grayfox]

First time i've looked at it O_O

Kinda agree with most of it. I think Marth is better than Fox and possibly Falco. Peach better than Fox too.

I don't think jigglypuff should be that high.

Link higher.

A few lower tier swap abouts but they don't really matter anyways lol.

 

[Diddy Kong]

4.
Young Link
Mr. Game & Watch
Zelda
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

OWW SHIT STEVEN! Mewtwo is WEL lager dan Bowser op de PAL tier list! Jij mag mij die schandelijke match wel geownt hebben maar hier heb je hem terug!! En waarom is Ness trouwens zo laag?

 

[Helios]

English please.
Imbeciles...

 

[shoe]

Helios is een mietje!

 

[Marc]

Diddy Kong: Ness is placed so low because he's crap, and not a 'gangster' like some people claim. Yes, shoe, I'm looking at you. =]

 

[Zephynazo]

nice list, i agree with most of it.

 

[Sirias]

Lol, I think Link should be higher, but that's just me.
Since I haven't gone against actual PRO pros, it's impossible for me to say that Link should really be placed higher or not.
... But I like Link.
Make him higher. XD

People say that Sheik gets ***** by Fox and Falco, but I don't think so. Moreso to Falco because... well I dunno, maybe it's just me, lol.
And I think Sheik's relatively easy to beat with Marth as well.

... And I hate Peach. Take her out of the Tier List. Heh.

Anyway, yeah.

I think Link could take on most of them pretty well.
Even Pikachu, lmao.
And Young Link.
Oh yes.

Ganondorf is so high, yeesh. I didn't know he was so liked.

But then again I'm from Australia (New Zealand, rather). And the place of the Australian scene doesn't contribute much, as Quetz says.

 

[FOnti]

i agree with most, except the ice climbers. i believe they should be (in the same tier system) above mario at best

 

[LemonManX]

But the Ice Climbers are above Mario. IC are 7th and Mario is 12th.

Good list, if only there were a way to make Roy higher, lol.

 

[FOnti]

But the Ice Climbers are above Mario. IC are 7th and Mario is 12th.

Good list, if only there were a way to make Roy higher, lol.

no, i mean ONE slot above mario. i.e. second bottom of t2.

 

[juganthestar]

IC's should be higher than Shiek =/
Honestly when you run into a tourneyment maining IC's. Everyone you play will have no clue how to play them its like a constant mindgame because they never seen an IC before. Most people would also agree that IC's are very aggrovating and annoying and ghey and countless other curselike comments.

IC's > Shiek and below

 

[mr_joey132]

No, becauz a good sheik, and by good I mean top 10 of europe, knows how to play against all characters, including IC's.

 

[Marc]

There aren't any really good players who use Ice Climbers in Europe, so their high position is mainly due to what Chu Dat did in the US and the recent wobbling issue. Ice Climbers have a few pretty solid counters/bad match ups and the fact that many people don't know how to play against them, doesn't mean they are actually top tier, let alone #1.

 

[Fuzzyness]

sounds like someone is just basing it on videos and matchups lol (bad frozenwave =P). I think falco could possibly be top, but im not fussing. He's too good on pal

 

[Z-N_Freak]

Kirby is Thát low O_o
Shouldn't he be like above Mr. Game & Watch =|
Ahh well =(

Falco is above Fox ^^

 

[shoe]

hey zeno, we hebben je gemist!

 

[Z-N_Freak]

Ik jou ook, het was nogal koud op mijn sokken lopen in de winter =o

 

[ivootjes(nr18)]

Zeno en Shoe hebben allebei 771 posts! Hulde!

^not interesting

OMG, i heb er 871!

 

[XarchX]

i think peach should be above marth

 

[Jeffz0r]

Zeno en Shoe hebben allebei 771 posts! Hulde!

^not interesting

OMG, i heb er 871!

Omgwtfh4xbbq, ik heb 1701 posts.......... XD

 

[Marc]

Helaas wel. Hou ze alleen buiten dit topic als ze niks bijdragen.

 

[Smady]

Sheik first? That's not good. Falco deserves first more.

 

[Nihonjin]

Atleast give us a reason why

 

[Smady]

More Falco players over here, at least I've found more.

 

[Jeffz0r]

Wow, that must be the best reason ever.

 

[Smady]

Haha... It is a pretty bad reason alone, but don't you think more Falco players means more Falco seeds? That's what I was thinking.

 

[Jeffz0r]

Then you're thinking it wrong.
If everyone played Mewtwo, should Mewtwo get top seed? xD

 

[Smady]

That's the flaw of my logic.

 

[Marc]

Many people playing a character and/or many people placing high with a character usually means that character is good. This is certainly the case for Falco, but it doesn't mean he is the absolute best character in the game. Some characters are also easier to pick up than others and do better in certain match ups.

 

[FoulPlay]

Lol. Link is soooo underrated. D:

 

[Jeffz0r]

No he's not, when's the last time you've seen someone end really good with Link?
Even Aniki and Germ don't main (Young) Link anymore, because he's just not good enough. And in PAL, Link is even worse (no upB spike :/)

 

[Smady]

Vegeta by Smash Daddy
Nappa by MasterWarlord
Captain Ginyu by MasterWarlord
Recoome by Smash Daddy
Burter by Master Warlord
Jeice by Smash Daddy
Guldo by Master Warlord
Krillin by Junahu

 

[Mr P]

No he's not, when's the last time you've seen someone end really good with Link?
Even Aniki and Germ don't main (Young) Link anymore, because he's just not good enough. And in PAL, Link is even worse (no upB spike :/)

Aside from the fact that Aniki regularly ***** Japan with his amazing link, link does ok. Reacher a UK player got third at edster using only Link, and its not because he is some amazingly skilled player who is far superior to the rest of us its that Link is a competitive character and i certainly think he is more capabale than some other characters. When you look closely at his matchups they really arent that bad at all. Link probably ATLEAST goes even with peach, samus and marth, does much better in pal vs the space animals and against sheik he can atleast put up a fight unlike in ntsc. I think the fact alone that aniki does soo well in Japan is proof enough that Link is tournament viable and certainly better than low tier.

 

[Jeffz0r]

UK sucks.

And Aniki 's Link is amazing, I never denied that, but he still decided to switch to Samus.

 

[Mr P]

UK sucks.

And Aniki 's Link is amazing, I never denied that, but he still decided to switch to Samus.

no jeffzor YOU suck, and whether or not he decided to use samus doesnt negate the fact he destroys pretty much everyone in japan with link