[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Chief Mendez]

I want Shigeru Miyamoto, other then the fact that he hates Donkey Kong and might not include K. Rool, I'm all for him. He hasn't directed a game since Super Mario 64, but Smash Brothers is the single most important game Nintendo has, so he might make an exception.

...You do know that if Shiggy made the next game, it would be even more random and less competitive, right?

I personally think it would be awesome if they had Sakurai work with the gameplay team, making sure things are balanced and playing right, while the position of "director" is split between the respective creators of each series.

So we'd have Miyamoto, Mark Pacini, Sakamoto, Aonuma, Kojima, Inoue, Inafune, Horikawa, and so on all onboard in positions that are more than just "Special Thanks".

Shiggy CREATED Donkey Kong, how could he not love him?

He hates Donkey Kong 64, specifically.

If you have to ask why, then it's not worth explaining.

 

[Ilex]

Explain to me, I want to know :O

Btw Luvtoy that's one of the worst rosters I've ever seen. 4 B-K chars? 5 Sonic characters? Wtf?

 

[Darkwashu]

Conker and Banjo Kazooie?

That'll never happen..asking for them is like asking for Master chief.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Smash Brothers is more popular, hyped and well recieved more then any other single title Nintendo has. While it'd easily be the better choice to give up Smash as a series before Mario or Zelda as a series, no Mario/Zelda/Pokemon/etc title can match the sheer impact any single smash brothers has had, except maybe the original. As the series goes on, this trend will only continue.

What makes you think Shigeru would make the game less competetive? I've heard from people he'd be more likely to balance the game.

 

[Skyshroud]

Yoshi's Story/Island
Yoshi (White and Black as color variants)
Baby Bowser*

For the record, Baby Bowser is just Bowser as a child, and Bowser Jr. is Bowser's son. I don't know if you actually meant Baby Bowser, but Bowser Jr. is by far the better choice. (access to paintbrush, more character development, not another version of bowser)

...You do know that if Shiggy made the next game, it would be even more random and less competitive, right?

I personally think it would be awesome if they had Sakurai work with the gameplay team, making sure things are balanced and playing right, while the position of "director" is split between the respective creators of each series.

So we'd have Miyamoto, Mark Pacini, Sakamoto, Aonuma, Kojima, Inoue, Inafune, Horikawa, and so on all onboard in positions that are more than just "Special Thanks".

I'm not sure that the game would be more random and less competitive. Miyamoto seems to be more connected with the gaming community and what they want. He seems to be one of the few people left at Nintendo that is actually concerned about core gaming. Nintendo just handcuffs him a lot. Look at E3. He wanted to hint at new core titles upcoming, but Nintendo wasn't allowing him to say anything. They released the chains a bit, and I believe he got to drop some hints to IGN.

I am all for getting all of the studios to work together, but there poses a huge problem with this proposition. These guys are all (or almost all) going to be working on other titles. It is going to cause havoc and delays everywhere if the amount of collaboration that is needed would actually happen.

 

[darkserenade]

Guess nobody thought of saying a new devoloper at the helm(Sakurai was relatively new on the first one, perhaps we can find a competitive new person). I think that it could work, with Mashiro Sakurai supervising(for Nintendo, money is just as important as customer satisfaction).

 

[flyinfilipino]

Smash Brothers is more popular, hyped and well recieved more then any other single title Nintendo has. While it'd easily be the better choice to give up Smash as a series before Mario or Zelda as a series, no Mario/Zelda/Pokemon/etc title can match the sheer impact any single smash brothers has had, except maybe the original. As the series goes on, this trend will only continue.

What makes you think Shigeru would make the game less competetive? I've heard from people he'd be more likely to balance the game.

Except without the support of those core titles, Smash Bros. would be nothing.

What experience does Miyamoto have with fighting games? Having him on board wouldn't be a bad thing (same with Sakurai), as long as they can all get along and make a good fighting game.

 

[Pieman0920]

He hates Donkey Kong 64, specifically.

Actually, this is wrong. Miyamoto got upset in the development of Yoshi's Island, being pressured to make the game's graphics more like DKC's, and he didn't like that. He's never said anything bad about DK64.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Explain to me, I want to know :O

Ever notice how there's very little stuff to collect in Mario games?

The Rare-made DK games are pretty heavily inspired by Miyamoto's most famous series, but for whatever reason, those games have always placed a huge (some might even say too-huge of an) emphasis on collecting random stuff to proceed in the game.

It's an artificial style of game design. Most of the challenge in the Rare DKs comes from trying to collect objects, rather than navigate levels or overcome obstacles.

...And DK64 is famous for doing just that.

What makes you think Shigeru would make the game less competetive? I've heard from people he'd be more likely to balance the game.

I'm not sure that the game would be more random and less competitive. Miyamoto seems to be more connected with the gaming community and what they want. He seems to be one of the few people left at Nintendo that is actually concerned about core gaming. Nintendo just handcuffs him a lot. Look at E3. He wanted to hint at new core titles upcoming, but Nintendo wasn't allowing him to say anything. They released the chains a bit, and I believe he got to drop some hints to IGN.

While he might balance the game more, or some such thing, I don't think he'd necessarily be the guy to go "more hitstun, less floaty, no tripping, leaderboards, wavedashing", and make the game "Melee 2.0" like certain people would want.

But maybe I'm just confusing "competitive" with "what Brawl-haters wanted from Brawl", in which case you'll have to excuse me.

I am all for getting all of the studios to work together, but there poses a huge problem with this proposition. These guys are all (or almost all) going to be working on other titles. It is going to cause havoc and delays everywhere if the amount of collaboration that is needed would actually happen.

That is an issue, but considering how much money Smash Bros. prints Nintendo (it's only real competition is Pokemon and Dragon Quest, really), it's a possibility.

A slight one, but one nonetheless.

Actually, this is wrong. Miyamoto got upset in the development of Yoshi's Island, being pressured to make the game's graphics more like DKC's, and he didn't like that. He's never said anything bad about DK64.

NONSENSE DK64 SUCKS AND MIYAMOTO KNOWS IT

Spoiler

...Okay, so maybe it's just me that hates the game. Well, Shiggy might hate it too, but you're right, he's never publicly said that.

He did, however, say "People will tolerate mediocre gameplay if the game looks pretty" in response to the pre-rendered "boom" of the early-mid 90's, but he wasn't talking about DKC or DK64 specifically, and later apologized.

 

[MasterWarlord]

★★★★★★★★★★ - At 10 stars, I will declare this moveset the best moveset ever made. . .Not by MasterWarlord. No moveset has ever obtained this rank.
★★★★★★★★★☆ - At 9 stars, movesets are front runners among the front runners. Only Nurse Joy has obtained this rank.
★★★★★★★★☆☆ - At 8 stars, movesets are typically getting into the ranks of the elite, and will fondly be remembered for MYMs to come.
★★★★★★★☆☆☆ - At 7 stars, movesets are getting dangerously close to Super Vote territory, but are left out in the cold for better sets.
★★★★★★☆☆☆☆ - At 6 stars, I -do- like the movesets, though they certainly have plenty of room for improvement or their ideas aren't -that- unique.
★★★★★☆☆☆☆☆ - At 5 stars, I no longer actually like these movesets, but they aren't -bad-. The quality gap between 6, 5, and 4 stars is among the largest on the list.
★★★★☆☆☆☆☆☆ - At 4 stars and below, I specifically start DISLIKING movesets.
★★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆ - At 3 stars are plenty of bad movesets, but they typically have some slightly redeeming quality that prevents them from going down the list further.
★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆ - At 2 stars, movesets have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆ - With only 1 star, movesets not only have nothing good about them, they're completely OOC, horrifically generic, impossible to read, and do 30% and great knockback on every move.

DARKMEGA.EXE

★★★★★★★☆☆☆
7/10

GARBODOR

★★★★★★☆☆☆☆
6/10

GALAXY MAN

★★★★★★☆☆☆☆
6/10

SPIDER MAN

★★★★★★☆☆☆☆
6/10

DRY BOWSER

★★★★★☆☆☆☆☆
5/10

ENRICO PUCCI AND WHITESNAKE

★★★★★☆☆☆☆☆
5/10

WESTON

★★★★★☆☆☆☆☆
5/10

VICTINI

★★★★★☆☆☆☆☆
5/10

BELOME

★★★★☆☆☆☆☆☆
4/10

STORM

★★★★☆☆☆☆☆☆
4/10

CHARLOTTE

★★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
3/10

PIERROT

★★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
3/10

GENO

★★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
3/10

ASHLEY

★★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
3/10

GON

★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
2/10

MIKE HAGGAR

★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
2/10

DOPPELGANGER ARLE

★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
2/10

MARONA

★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
2/10

VIEWTIFUL JOE

★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
2/10

ASH

★★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
2/10

GENESECT

★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
1/10

MEOWTH

★☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
1/10

 

[Agi]

^ On the whole "collecting stuff" thing: The Legend of Zelda.

Spoiler

Yes, I do play DK64 and enjoy it (cleared 100%). But you DON'T have to collect a ridiculous amount of stuff to beat the game. Mainly, bananas, coins, ammo, oranges, crystal coconuts, blueprints, fairies, camera film, homing ammo, golden bananas, charges for your instrument, more bananas.... -begins to see point-

regardless, it is still a fun game... >.>

 

[Chief Mendez]

Banjo Kazooie/Tooie had just as much emphasis if not more-so then Donkey Kong 64 on random item collection. I don't see them getting bashed.

Heck, Super Mario 64/Sunshine/Galxy are collection based. Why aren't they hated for that reason?

Ah, but the only thing you need to collect in those games are Stars/Shines.

Also, the way those games are designed, it's not hard to get the Star, rather, it's hard to get to the Star. Really, the Star is just the end of the level, as opposed to DK64, where you have to go through a level in addition to collecting, like, fifty different things.

It just gets annoying, is all. And for the record, I'm not a big fan of Banjo-Kazooie either. The only N64 Rare games I liked were Perfect Dark and Jet Force Gemini.

 

[Agi]

In sunshine, are you forgetting the 10billion blue coins to collect to GET half of the stars? That's the only reason I haven't fully beaten the game yet.

 

[SmashChu]

Banjo Kazooie/Tooie had just as much emphasis if not more-so then Donkey Kong 64 on random item collection. I don't see them getting bashed. Heck, Super Mario 64/Sunshine/Galxy are collection based. Why aren't they hated for that reason?

Becuase they are never bad about it.

In DK64, there was A LOT to collect. 300bananas, banana coins to buy stuff, bananas to fight the boss, ammo for your weapons, crystal coconuts for abilities, and lets not forget to rare coins. There was a lot of stuff to collect just to make it though the game. The worst part is that you need to switch characters. While an interesting idea, it became tedious as only Diddy could collect this ammo and I needed more ammo for Tiny. Collection on top of other stuff made it bad.

Banjo Kazooie (or at least the first one) wasn't as bad. Like the 3D Mario games, everything came down to jiggies. 100 notes. Jigie. Find all the jinjos. Jiggie. You didn't require all these little things. Beyond that was all items for attacks, which weren't that many. It was manageable.

 

[Chief Mendez]

In sunshine, are you forgetting the 10billion blue coins to collect to GET half of the stars? That's the only reason I haven't fully beaten the game yet.

WHATAREYOUTALKINGABOUTTHEREAREONLY240BLUECOINSANDONLY24BLUECOINSHINES

...Okay, there is that. But you can beat the game without collecting even one of them, which would be a lot harder than just playing the game regularly, where you'll find enough of the obvious ones to snag a few Shines.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Can't believe I forgot those cursed blue coins.

I got 114 shines and just quit cause of the blue coins. I looked up a guide to see where the blue coins were, but there's no way to know which blue coins you've already gotten. It's far too frustrating, Donkey Kong 64 has nothing as bad as the SMS blue coins.

DK64 is far easier and faster to get 100% completion on then SMS solely due to those cursed blue coins from hell.

 

[BKupa666]

I could potetionally see us with as low as 45 characters, seeing Brawl is only an increase of 10 over Melee. If we get 45, it won't be cause there's not enough newcomers though, it's more likely some veterans would get cut. Toon Link and either the trainer or Lucario are on thin ice.

Oh, and by the way, Mother doesn't deserve a 3rd character. There will never be a fourth game, it's officially confirmed, it's lucky it has two characters.

Edit: Bkupa, F-Zero deserves a second character long before Starfox gets a fourth. Black Shadow would be able to inherit Ganondorf's old moveset, thus allowing Ganon to get a new one. Other then that and the 3rd mother character, your list is decent enough.

Good idea, although I'd rather see Samurai Goroh, Black Shadow seems more popular, and he can replace Claus on that list of 13.

Oh yeah, and the blue coins on Noki Bay are so **** frustrating, although I actually did get all 120 shines. The ending just shows

Spoiler

a picture of Mario, Peach, the toads, and all of the villagers in the Sirena Hotel Casino, with the text: Have a Nice Vacation!

 

[flyinfilipino]

I love blue coins! I wish I was the guy in charge of hiding the blue coins.

 

[Agi]

I love blue coins! I wish I was the guy in charge of hiding the blue coins.

I wish I was, too. I would make a hacked version of the game, where each blue coin is either trapped *slightly* beyond the maximum possible height to get, inside Bowser's pool of acid, or on top of shadow mario's paintbrush, where it disappears when he is defeated.

*shakes fist at bkupa* What, did you start a new game or something with a cheat guide? or are you chuck norris.

 

[BKupa666]

*shakes fist at bkupa* What, did you start a new game or something with a cheat guide? or are you chuck norris.

roundhouse kick No, just count how many you have, count how many you will get with all 30 in the area, then use the guide to get them all.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I would also hide some blue coins inside the buildings of Delfino Plaza. (not the ones you can go in, of course)

I've gotten all 120 shines too. Also,

Spoiler

when Delfino Plaza completely floods, how the heck is that possible?! It's surrounded by ocean! The entire sea level rises!

 

[C.Olimar788]

Yeah, that is rather... un-physics-ish.

Anyway, while we're on the subject of Sunshine, how about this for how Mario's F.L.U.D.D. works, since, y'know, it sucked in Brawl:

It starts the battle with a full tank of water. When down-B is held on the ground, Mario squirts the water with his Squirt Nozzle. This can be aimed up and down like in Brawl but is much stronger, sending opponents much further. It lasts as long as B is held or until F.L.U.D.D. runs out of water. When F.L.U.D.D. is used in the air, Mario uses the Hover Nozzle which will last just as long and act as another third jump for Mario, sending him much farther forward but less upward as its best and putting Mario into a falling state afterward. When on the ground, F.L.U.D.D. can be charged by tapping down-B once when it is not full. This charge can be canceled just like in Brawl, and when it is partly full Mario will either charge or squirt depending on whether Down-B is held or tapped.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Yeah, that is rather... un-physics-ish.

Anyway, while we're on the subject of Sunshine, how about this for how Mario's F.L.U.D.D. works, since, y'know, it sucked in Brawl:

lrn2Mario

Don't let me ever catch you saying that the FLUDD sucks again. It's one of Mario's most useful techniques. It leads to edgeguarding techniques that are impossible for every other character.

 

[flyinfilipino]

lrn2Mario

Don't let me ever catch you saying that the FLUDD sucks again. It's one of Mario's most useful techniques. It leads to edgeguarding techniques that are impossible for every other character.

Do you have any cool links?

Hover Nozzle FTW. I think more character's movesets could be updated like Mario's as well. To keep them nice and fresh, you know.

 

[C.Olimar788]

I'd also like to see Samus get a better Charge Beam. Well, not better, per se, just closer to how it works in her games.

But yeah, all the characters, especially the long-time veterans, should get at least some changes. Keeping things fresh is something Smash has a hard time doing, so that would help a lot.

 

[Darkwashu]

Mario needs and updated move-set,same with Fox.

Foxes moveset has been near idenical to his N64 version,he hasnt changed much..

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'd also like to see Samus get a better Charge Beam. Well, not better, per se, just closer to how it works in her games.

You mean her blaster in general, or just the charging part?

 

[C.Olimar788]

The blaster as a whole. Change it from a charge up and shoot strong attack to something that can be charged but also works well with rapid-fire.

Hmmm... Fox's moveset? Well I'd suggest Assault-based changes, but I think that Wolf or Falco will take up new Assault-based weaponry. Hmmm... well if Krystal doesn't make it in Fox could use her staff.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Yeah. Samus's projectile game needs to improve a little (I mean, if anyone should have good projectiles, it should be Samus).

Apparently, more of everyone's favorite core games will be coming out in the next few years, so maybe we'll see new things for our old friends.

EDIT: FOX ONLY USED THE STAFF IN ONE GAME

 

[NinjaFoxX]

The blaster as a whole. Change it from a charge up and shoot strong attack to something that can be charged but also works well with rapid-fire.

Hmmm... Fox's moveset? Well I'd suggest Assault-based changes, but I think that Wolf or Falco will take up new Assault-based weaponry. Hmmm... well if Krystal doesn't make it in Fox could use her staff.

fox's moveset is perfect,just give them hitstun and un nerf him

 

[OmegaXXII]

well no doubt Fox has a good moveset, but maybe updating Falco's moveset with a Bazooka rather than the same handgun wouldn't be so bad at all, so I'm all up for some new movesets from some of the veteran charscters

 

[Chief Mendez]

Ah just forget it.

EDIT- I hate Internet Explorer.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Ah just forget it.

I refuse!

*?

 

[Chief Mendez]

*?

I was totally going to insult Starfox Adventures, but IE7 is being dumb, and won't let me type in All Caps.

...See? Jesus, look at that sh*t. I'm reduced to making silly jokes about being too lazy to spell somebody's name...

 

[flyinfilipino]

I was totally going to insult Starfox Adventures, but IE7 is being dumb, and won't let me type in All Caps.

...See? Jesus, look at that sh*t. I'm reduced to making silly jokes about being too lazy to spell somebody's name...

Oh. Bring it!

*or not

**4 i's too much for you?

Spoiler

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

 

[SirKibble]

This is truly a tragic moment. Everyone stop to shed a tear.

*shed*

Anyway... I'M SO HAPPY THAT I CAN STILL TYPE IN ALL CAPS!!

On a contributing note, I think Fox's moveset is perfectly fine, and we have NO NEED to change it.

 

[flyinfilipino]

On a contributing note, I think Fox's moveset is perfectly fine, and we have NO NEED to change it.

Not even to...unclone the Star Fox characters? :D

 

[Chief Mendez]

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Spoiler

EDIT - They at least need to take away Shinestalling.

 

[PShadow]

Change Falco's move set and possibly change his final smash too. Its annoying when they're all tanks. Also add Krystal, Star Fox needs a female character in there.

I would also like to see Shadow the Hedgehog in the next one. Would be pretty cool to have him in there.

 

[darkserenade]

Spoiler

EDIT - They at least need to take away Shinestalling.

And nerf that freakin Usmash, seriously. Ridiculous.