[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ChronoBound]

YES I would love a Tag Team Mode. I know so many people who are like playing so many characters that they switch around often anyway. This would be cool and kinda save some time.

Spoiler

I WILL INCLUDE IT IN MY SMASH 4 PROJECT/LONG POST

Wait, you are working on a Smash 4 Project too?

 

[SirKibble]

Uh...I know I should be crediting some other people down here, but I obviously did all the hard work, so whatever!

/good will from the people who helped on this

Just because your post was longer

Spoiler

(oh, and more detailed, but who really cares about that)

than anybody else's...

 

[ChronoBound]

Just because your post was longer

Spoiler

(oh, and more detailed, but who really cares about that)

than anybody else's...

Lots of people have come up with the idea of double and triple Final Smashes. Heck, one of the gameplay suggestions I came up with for my Smash 4 project is double and triple final smashes. Basically, I got the idea from Chrono Trigger, and I originally just applied it to a moveset I made for Crono two years ago (not on this site though).

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

Uh...I know I should be crediting some other people down here, but I obviously did all the hard work, so whatever!

i originally came up with the idea......so yeah.......i take credit for anything that sprouted off my idea....haha naw you can take credit for all the hard work.

I have been thinking about this for a while.

Tag-Team Final Smashes.


So here it goes: when playing as a team and one team member activates a FS both players combine their power to perform a dual final smash. Can't you just imagine mario and samus's happening at the same time? The possibility of awesomeness is limitness (in my opinion)

 

[Pieman0920]

Tell me any character more likely then K. Rool and I'll shoot it down. Maybe not now, as I have to go momentairily, but I will. He's the single most likely char for SSB4 IMHO.

Isaac? Likely for Brawl, not for SSB4, unless his series gets a 3rd game.

Ridley? Sakurai clearly doesn't want to make a moveset for him.

Krystal? Pssssh, Starfox doesn't deserve 4 reps.

Black Shadow? Black Shadow will only get in to inherit Ganondorf's old moveset, as I doubt they'd want to be creative enough to pull him a moveset out of nowhere.

The Ridley thing doesn't make sense. On the same grounds, I ould say that Sakurai doesn't want to make K. Rool a moveset. (He gave Ridley two boss movesets, but nothing for Rool) I could also go around and say that the Donkey Kong series just doesn't deserve 3 reps. (Also, its totally possible for one SF rep to just get cut in favor of Krystal) And maybe K. Rool won't get into SSB4 unless he has a game inbetwee now and then where he actually does fights.

K. Rool has his chances, but he's not a shoe in by any means. Dixie was the next considered DK character, not him. Also, Smash has never focused on villains, and only has used them if they are really popular, which K.Rool isn't really. He's the generic end boss of the DK series, and quite frankly is way to close to Bowser from that old Mario cartoon. (Look very simmilar, and have the odd quirk of dressing up and renaming themselves)

See what I mean?

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

theres no such thing as a shoe-in. Remember before brawl when ridley, geno, krystal and k. rool were all "show-ins"? Never expect a character to be in, you should merely hope with every fiber of you being that they make playable

Spoiler

like im doing for petey pihranna and waluigi (yes i know they suck but i like them)

 

[meresilence0]

Ah, SSB64. I was raised on that game. I played it all the time, and even though I was terrible, it still rocked. I think I got through 5 winter vacations in Ohio with that game and my cousin. And when a bumper killed him, we would both laugh hysterically, because the game was too fun. It still is fun, and as to why it isn't on the VC, I have no idea.

 

[mantlecore77]

K. Rool has his chances, but he's not a shoe in by any means. Dixie was the next considered DK character, not him. Also, Smash has never focused on villains, and only has used them if they are really popular, which K.Rool isn't really. He's the generic end boss of the DK series, and quite frankly is way to close to Bowser from that old Mario cartoon. (Look very simmilar, and have the odd quirk of dressing up and renaming themselves)

See what I mean?

Sure King K. Rool has some similarities to Bowser, like the whole quirk-of-dressing-up-and-renaming-themselves thing, but that picture proves squat because it's obviously not how everyone looks at Bowser or King K. Rool.

^This should show how different they really are.

I think that if Dixie Kong got in before Rool, more than half of Smash fans would be disappointed. King K. Rool has been the classic baddie for Donkey Kong games just like Bowser has. Now, sure, most of the recent DK games do suck entirely, but if Bowser never made it in to Melee, would we be having this debate about if he should get in as a playable character or a boss? I don't think so.
The comparison of Bowser and Rool is obviously close in some aspects and not in others, but overall, King K. Rool deserves a spot simply because he has contributed to the Donkey Kong universe so much as a character. He's the repeating baddie, like Bowser in Mario, Ganondorf in Zelda, Wolf in Star Fox, Ridley in Metroid, and the list goes on.

 

[BKupa666]

The Ridley thing doesn't make sense. On the same grounds, I ould say that Sakurai doesn't want to make K. Rool a moveset. (He gave Ridley two boss movesets, but nothing for Rool) I could also go around and say that the Donkey Kong series just doesn't deserve 3 reps. (Also, its totally possible for one SF rep to just get cut in favor of Krystal) And maybe K. Rool won't get into SSB4 unless he has a game inbetwee now and then where he actually does fights.

K. Rool has his chances, but he's not a shoe in by any means. Dixie was the next considered DK character, not him. Also, Smash has never focused on villains, and only has used them if they are really popular, which K.Rool isn't really. He's the generic end boss of the DK series, and quite frankly is way to close to Bowser from that old Mario cartoon. (Look very simmilar, and have the odd quirk of dressing up and renaming themselves)

See what I mean?

I fully agree with Master Warlord. And I can pretty much counter every anti-K.Rool argument out there.

DK Series doesn't deserve 3 reps?! DK is Nintendo's fourth best selling series, and if it weren't for Twilight Princess, it would be 3rd! Don't tell me it doesn't deserve three when Star Fox and Kirby get three. Sure the recent DK games are crap, but have those other two done any better? And I fully expect him to show up again before SSB4 comes out. Although if he's in, his moveset would consist of his weapons from the DKC games of course.

Dixie, in a Famitsu article, was confirmed to have been in a duo with Diddy, but they couldn't work it out. Plus, if you look at the roster pattern of protagonist-sidekick-villain-second sidekick, K.Rool would be next in line anyways. And why waste so much potential on a THIRD MONKEY? Sakurai has gone on the record of saying that two things matter with characters: popularity (K.Rool is way more popular than Dixie), and what the character has to bring to the table that is UNIQUE (K.Rool could be a fast, jumpy heavyweight that fights mainly with projectiles).

And just so you know, that picture of Bowser was actually made BEFORE K.Rool's first appearance in DKC, so it's just a coincidence.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Just another game like melee with
more characters (at-least megaman, bowser jr. and Krystal) ,stages, GOOD online, better balance between characters
and I'm satisfied

 

[Pieman0920]

I fully agree with Master Warlord. And I can pretty much counter every anti-K.Rool argument out there.

DK Series doesn't deserve 3 reps?! DK is Nintendo's fourth best selling series, and if it weren't for Twilight Princess, it would be 3rd! Don't tell me it doesn't deserve three when Star Fox and Kirby get three. Sure the recent DK games are crap, but have those other two done any better? And I fully expect him to show up again before SSB4 comes out. Although if he's in, his moveset would consist of his weapons from the DKC games of course.

Dixie, in a Famitsu article, was confirmed to have been in a duo with Diddy, but they couldn't work it out. Plus, if you look at the roster pattern of protagonist-sidekick-villain-second sidekick, K.Rool would be next in line anyways. And why waste so much potential on a THIRD MONKEY? Sakurai has gone on the record of saying that two things matter with characters: popularity (K.Rool is way more popular than Dixie), and what the character has to bring to the table that is UNIQUE (K.Rool could be a fast, jumpy heavyweight that fights mainly with projectiles).

And just so you know, that picture of Bowser was actually made BEFORE K.Rool's first appearance in DKC, so it's just a coincidence.

Fourth best selling or not, it only got its second rep in Brawl, and before then, it had one. Whatever the case is, sales don't seem to effect the DK's series standing in Brawl. And while he will likely make another apperance before SSB4, I highly doubt it will one that expands his character in any real way, and probably won't let him fight hand to hand.

And where was that Famitsu article? I've never heard that before at all....also seems very unlikely, since Diddy's moveset doesn't seem like it was designed to have a partner at all. Also, it was Dixie who stared in two games, not K.Rool. (Who also dissapeared for awhile. And not a moveset I've heard has made him sound unique. Dressing up would be a gimick of sorts, but his moves would almost certainly be retreads of other people's moves. (And believe you me, he's not going to be fast. Bowser is faster than Mario and can jump higher in the games, but not in Smash)

And I'm well aware that it came before K.Rool, and I'm insinuating that K.Rool is worth as much as a generic Saturday morning cartoon version of Bowser

 

[flyinfilipino]

Yes, it's true that Dixie Kong has been considered (apparently) over King K. Rool in two games now (right?), so patterns my butt. I personally think that K. Rool is a generic boss as well, but since Chief Mendez I think mentioned earlier that there might be another Donkey Kong Country, he might have a chance to really shine in the future. (or according to Pieman: not)

 

[ChronoBound]

K. Rool was in Jungle Climber for the DS.

Also, are you really working on a Smash 4 Project?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Also, are you really working on a Smash 4 Project?

/long post, something like that.

 

[ChronoBound]

/long post, something like that.

Are you being sarcastic?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Are you being sarcastic?

No.

Spoiler

10charizards

EDIT: Stupid smiley ruined my spoiler.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

YES I would love a Tag Team Mode. I know so many people who are like playing so many characters that they switch around often anyway. This would be cool and kinda save some time.

Spoiler

I WILL INCLUDE IT IN MY SMASH 4 PROJECT/LONG POST

hey that was my idea, i came up with it like 60 or so pages back!

 

[BKupa666]

B: Blunderbuss: He pulls out his blunderbuss from his days as Kaptain. The gun is chargeable and can fire normal cannonballs (5-20%), spiked cannonballs (12-30%), red clouds (act like clocks on victim), blue clouds (freezes foes), or purple clouds (reverse controls). If the blunderbuss is charged too long, it will backfire and K.Rool will be stunned, blackened in smoke for a few seconds.

Side B: Royal Boomerang: K.Rool's trademark attack: he takes his crown and throws it forward like a boomerang. The crown can be angled. It acts like Link's boomerang, except it doesn't pull foes back, it goes out farther, and it hits harder. However, unlike Link's, K.Rool is vulnerable while the crown is out. 12-16% As a side note, if you play as Kaptain, Baron, or Boxer K.Rool (his alt. costumes), they will throw out a pirate hat, remote control, and boxing glove respectively.

Down B: Krusha Slam: K.Rool jumps up and slams the ground on his butt, sending out three green shockwaves. The first does 5% and no knockback or stun, the second does 5% more and stuns the foe (as if by Plasma Beam), and the third does 6% and knocks the foe back a good distance. Has a lot of startup and ending lag, and foes can escape after the first wave. This originates from DK64.

Up B: Helicopter Pack: K.Rool dons his helicopter pack from DKC3 and gets controllable recovery for three seconds. While he's flying, two electric balls (5-6% each) shoot out of the pack below him, one at a time.

Final Smash:
KAOS: K.Rool jumps into KAOS, his robot from DKC3. KAOS can't hurt people by running into them, but he does get some special controls:
B: Punching Gloves: A red punching glove comes out of either side of KAOS and can punch foes for up to 25%.
Side B: Propellers: KAOS spins two sets of propellers around his middle, slicing foes. 6-35%
Down B: Fire Jet: A stream of fire comes out of KAOS' bottom. 7-29%
Up B: Laser: KAOS' head spins around and shoots three lasers at foes. 19% per laser

KAOS jumps to hover and lasts 15 seconds.

tell me exactly how that's not original

and sure Dixie's been in two games, but K.Rool's been the villain in EVERY SINGLE DK GAME FOR THE PAST 13 YEARS (except Jungle Beat, which is a joke), in as many appearances as DK himself. Now that Diddy's added, why should they stop, just because they had a bad roster for Melee, with only one DK and Kirby rep?

Dressing up would only be alt. costumes, not moves.

 

[flyinfilipino]

hey that was my idea, i came up with it like 60 or so pages back!

Oh yeah? I WANTED IT IN BEFORE BRAWL WAS REALEASED SO THERE!

Spoiler

all in good fun!

B: Blunderbuss: He pulls out his blunderbuss from his days as Kaptain. The gun is chargeable and can fire normal cannonballs (5-20%), spiked cannonballs (12-30%), red clouds (act like clocks on victim), blue clouds (freezes foes), or purple clouds (reverse controls). If the blunderbuss is charged too long, it will backfire and K.Rool will be stunned, blackened in smoke for a few seconds.

Side B: Royal Boomerang: K.Rool's trademark attack: he takes his crown and throws it forward like a boomerang. The crown can be angled. It acts like Link's boomerang, except it doesn't pull foes back, it goes out farther, and it hits harder. However, unlike Link's, K.Rool is vulnerable while the crown is out. 12-16% As a side note, if you play as Kaptain, Baron, or Boxer K.Rool (his alt. costumes), they will throw out a pirate hat, remote control, and boxing glove respectively.

Down B: Krusha Slam: K.Rool jumps up and slams the ground on his butt, sending out three green shockwaves. The first does 5% and no knockback or stun, the second does 5% more and stuns the foe (as if by Plasma Beam), and the third does 6% and knocks the foe back a good distance. Has a lot of startup and ending lag, and foes can escape after the first wave. This originates from DK64.

Up B: Helicopter Pack: K.Rool dons his helicopter pack from DKC3 and gets controllable recovery for three seconds. While he's flying, two electric balls (5-6% each) shoot out of the pack below him, one at a time.

Final Smash:
KAOS: K.Rool jumps into KAOS, his robot from DKC3. KAOS can't hurt people by running into them, but he does get some special controls:
B: Punching Gloves: A red punching glove comes out of either side of KAOS and can punch foes for up to 25%.
Side B: Propellers: KAOS spins two sets of propellers around his middle, slicing foes. 6-35%
Down B: Fire Jet: A stream of fire comes out of KAOS' bottom. 7-29%
Up B: Laser: KAOS' head spins around and shoots three lasers at foes. 19% per laser

KAOS jumps to hover and lasts 15 seconds.

tell me exactly how that's not original

B attack has drawback reminiscent of Diddy Kong's.
Side B is a lot like Link's, as you pointed out.
Down B is similar to Bowser's, Yoshi's, etc.
Up B: Pit, R.O.B., Snake

Well, you did ask.

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm well aware K.Rool was in Jungle Climber, but he wasn't playable there....actually looking at things, Dixie's been playable in every game she's shown up in excluding the smash series. Heck, the fact that she got into Mario Superstar Baseball, while K.Rool had to wait until Sluggers, along with the fact that she was conisdered as a PC instead of him, point to the fact that she's got greater poppularity. (Mind you probably outside of a message board like this)


EDIT: That moveset really didn't change anythings...and K.Rool hasn't been the only villain. DKJB, and if you count it, DKR. =/

 

[ChronoBound]

Oh yeah? I WANTED IT IN BEFORE BRAWL WAS REALEASED SO THERE!

Spoiler

all in good fun!

Well, I thought of it a few months after Brawl was announced... >_>

 

[flyinfilipino]

Well, I thought of it a few months after Brawl was announced... >_>

Aha! I didn't exactly specify how long ago I thought of the idea. Now I can top yours in any fashion I choose.

Spoiler

Just kidding. My brother and I (whom I play Smash with the most often) often like to think of the characters we use as teams, so we've been wanting the idea since the Melee era.

EDIT: And yes, Pieman, that is a good argument.

 

[BKupa666]

Oh yeah? I WANTED IT IN BEFORE BRAWL WAS REALEASED SO THERE!

Spoiler

all in good fun!

B attack has drawback reminiscent of Diddy Kong's.
Side B is a lot like Link's, as you pointed out.
Down B is similar to Bowser's, Yoshi's, etc.
Up B: Pit, R.O.B., Snake

Well, you did ask.

B attack is a lot heavier, and shoots different things instead of peanuts. Drawback attacks are to avoid spamming.

Side B is his main attack from DKC, and it's exactly like it was there: powerful, long range, but leaves him vulnerable
down B, unlike Bowser and Yoshi, focuses on shockwaves, not hitting people with the stomp
up B actually damages you, and K.Rool flies slower with it

the Final Smash is completely original

even if they appear to have drawbacks similar to other characters, Sakurai looks for originality. Do any other heavyweights have abilities like this? Are there any other heavyweights that actually can run and jump well in their games? They look deep into their source material, and I'm sure they wouldn't overlook this.

Sure Bowser may be agile in some games, but in games where he's playable, he's always been the strongest and slowest. Look at Brawl.

 

[flyinfilipino]

B attack is a lot heavier, and shoots different things instead of peanuts. Drawback attacks are to avoid spamming.

Side B is his main attack from DKC, and it's exactly like it was there: powerful, long range, but leaves him vulnerable
down B, unlike Bowser and Yoshi, focuses on shockwaves, not hitting people with the stomp
up B actually damages you, and K.Rool flies slower with it

the Final Smash is completely original

Yes, I did take note of the slight differeces (and didn't touch the Final Smash, which is cool) (actually, it's a little reminiscent of a LANDMASTER!!!!), but I was just pointing out the already obvious similarities.

I was just nagging though, so no hard feelings.

 

[BKupa666]

Yes, I did take note of the slight differeces (and didn't touch the Final Smash, which is cool) (actually, it's a little reminiscent of a LANDMASTER!!!!), but I was just pointing out the already obvious similarities.

I was just nagging though, so no hard feelings.

None taken, I'm just using what would make him original, instead of the moves that ignorant people give him (like shockwave jump and Kroc Klaw)

 

[Pieman0920]

even if they appear to have drawbacks similar to other characters, Sakurai looks for originality. Do any other heavyweights have abilities like this? Are there any other heavyweights that actually can run and jump well in their games? They look deep into their source material, and I'm sure they wouldn't overlook this.

Sure Bowser may be agile in some games, but in games where he's playable, he's always been the strongest and slowest. Look at Brawl.

Bowser and Dedede are both heavy and have that same basic jump and slam down...and Dedede does create shockwaves of sorts.

And K.Rool is slow as sin in Sluggers. You're giving a double standard here.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I think in smash 4, there should be tag teams with one person playing. what I mean is like in the tekken arcade games, where you can switch characters on the fly. you wouldn't e able to immediately switch again to prevent people switching over and over gain and not do any fighting. This would be a special mode, like a coin match but a tag match instead, and you would have to unlock it like all-star or boss battles mode, by beating something, or unlocking all characters. this would add a new dimension to tourneys, and this would be a new mode in tourneys. Now there would be singles, doubles, and tag matches if this were included. I personally think this would be a great idea, and would make it a lot easier for fans of two characters, because then they could play two characters at once in a sense. You would be able to set a limit of switches, which is what they would have to do in tournaments to prevent too much switching. this would add a whole new dimension to smash, and I think it would be a welcome addition in the eyes of many SSB fans.

see guys, heres my tag team post.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Tell me any character more likely then K. Rool and I'll shoot it down. Maybe not now, as I have to go momentairily, but I will. He's the single most likely char for SSB4 IMHO.

well let see there's Megaman, clearly he's a way more popular character than K.Rool so you "can't shoot him down"

also Macaiih from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn has more of a chance to to it being well received on Wii, plus it's about time the FE series got a 3rd rep and who better than Macaiih.

 

[flyinfilipino]

see guys, heres my tag team post.

*sniff* I don't think any of my pre-Brawl posts are still around....

 

[Gumshoe]

Unrelated to the whole character-discussing shenanigans right now, but does anyone else think that character-specific Bonuses would be cool? You know, the Bonuses that appeared at the results screen in Melee which behaved sort of like achievements?

Some of those bonuses were pretty **** clever, and character-specific ones could be cool too. Like how one page has the battle statistics, the other has the bonuses, and the last one has the character-specific ones. Example:

Captain Falcon: "A Real Knee-Slapper" - KO 3 people using Captain Falcon's Foward Aerial
Yoshi: "Green Eggs and Eggs" - Land 10 hits on other opponents with Yoshi's Egg projectile (Up+B)

(Of course, not all of them would be embarrasingly bad pun-ish things like these)

The list just showed the bonus without the explanation, but I believe if you go to another page somewhere in Melee's menu you can find a list of all the bonuses you achieved, plus the explanation (though I'm not entirely sure). The next Smash could ahere to the same structure.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'd like for the bonuses to come back. They were kinda useful in seeing what you did and might not have noticed in a match. However, with replays and such, it kinda seems unnecessary. But we'll see.

 

[ChronoBound]

well let see there's Megaman, clearly he's a way more popular character than K.Rool so you "can't shoot him down"

also Macaiih from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn has more of a chance to to it being well received on Wii, plus it's about time the FE series got a 3rd rep and who better than Macaiih.

No. You did not just say that Micaiah, of all FE characters, was more worthy than King K. Rool.

Micaiah can't even surpass Ike in her own game, what makes you think she can surpass K. Rool, a icon since the SNES in probability.

 

[Zema]

Geno vs Krystal vs Isaac vs Claus vs Ridley

 

[flyinfilipino]

No. You did not just say that Micaiah, of all FE characters, was more worthy than King K. Rool.

Micaiah can't even surpass Ike in her own game, what makes you think she can surpass K. Rool, a icon since the SNES in probability.

Smash isn't a popularity contest....

 

[ChronoBound]

Geno vs Krystal vs Isaac vs Claus vs Ridley

Only two of those should be playable in Smash 4. Ridley and Isaac, however, Isaac's chances depend whether the Golden Sun series will get a third game prior to Smash 4.

To flyingfilipino:
Micaiah isn't even unique. She hails from the same world in FE as Ike, only she is less important than him in that world's storyline.

 

[ChronoBound]

Double post.

 

[Pieman0920]

If the bonuses did come back, I wouldn't mind explanations and a checklist in SSB4's version of the Vault. (Kinda like the challenges, but have them all explained beforehand.)


EDIT: Just because Micaiah is from the same world as Ike, doesn't mean she couldn't be unqiue. :O

 

[flyinfilipino]

To flyingfilipino:
Micaiah isn't even unique. She hails from the same world in FE as Ike, only she is less important than him in that world's storyline.

Maybe so, but it's not necessary to place her in some kind of competition with King K. Rool.

 

[OmegaXXII]

No. You did not just say that Micaiah, of all FE characters, was more worthy than King K. Rool.

Micaiah can't even surpass Ike in her own game, what makes you think she can surpass K. Rool, a icon since the SNES in probability.

0_0, just because K.Rool has a longer history with Nintendo doesn't mean squat, Macaiah could very well be in as well, it isn't dependent on how old they are, it is dependent on popularity.

Just because Micaiah is from the same world as Ike, doesn't mean she couldn't be unqiue. :O

Maybe so, but it's not necessary to place her in some kind of competition with King K. Rool.

EXACTLY!!

 

[ChronoBound]

Lyn was far more popular than Micaiah was, and all she got in as an Assist Trophy.