[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Starphoenix]

Some suggestions Scooby (or shoud I just say ideas from my own stage lists that I'm not done yet, since I'm lazy/I'm actually finding the music for them all)

For Metroid you should add in Skytown, and I'd also say remove Chozo Ruins and replace it with something from the non-Prime series, though that could just be my own want of Skytown. Still I think that's slightly more justified than Chozo Ruins, since that was from Prime 1, which already has a stage, in comparison to Prime 3 which wasn't recognized in Brawl. In addition I'd also add in Sauria from Star Fox as their second stage.

As for Fire Emblem, I'd say there are two ideas that I've been thinking of adding to my list. First off is the Tower at Medon from FESD (maybe it was in the older games as well?) In game, its really like a giant elevated platform swarming wtih wyvern riders, and I think it'd make a good stage for Brawl. As for Ike's stage, I'd say it should be the final level of Radient Dawn, inside the Tower of Guidence. What type of level that'd be though I havn't come to a conclusion about, though that's just my own problem, so I don't know if you need a explination of what the level should be.

We will most likely continue to have three Metroid stages in Smash 4. One from Metroid: Other M, one from Prime (Tallon IV or Skytown please) and our good ol' Super Metroid/Metroid cave/acid stage.

M: OM stage
Tallon IV
Norfair (SSBB) (transfer the Brinstar Depths music over to the stage)




Also, PLEEEEEEEEASEEE Sakurai, give us a Saturn Valley stage with ACTUAL music from Earthbound!

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

sundayseclipse, Dusknoir would be awesome, though unlikely.

What would be Weavile's chances of repping Pokemon for SSB4?

 

[Pieman0920]

We will most likely continue to have three Metroid stages in Smash 4. One from Metroid: Other M, one from Prime (Tallon IV or Skytown please) and our good ol' Super Metroid/Metroid cave/acid stage.

M: OM stage
Tallon IV
Norfair (SSBB) (transfer the Brinstar Depths music over to the stage)




Also, PLEEEEEEEEASEEE Sakurai, give us a Saturn Valley stage with ACTUAL music from Earthbound!

While I have no objections to a M:OM stage, I don't have one on my list because I don't have placeholders. Still its very likely. The thing though is that Brawl never represented Prime 3 though, and thus, I think that if another Metroid Prime stage was to be included, it would be from that game, and thus Tallon IV wouldn't show since its game has already had a stage at this point. (Remember that mostly everything in Brawl was based around things that cam between it and Melee, so SSB4 could very well be the same)

As for past stages, I'd rather have Zebes (SSB) Brinstar Depths (SSBM) and Frigate Orpheon (SSBB) which would cover the lava base, as well as using the two more unique Metroid levels.

 

[majora_787]

You have a World ends with you Fetish also!!

Check the MYM6 boards soon for his moveset!

I voted for Minamimoto.

But yeah, I REALLY hope there's a metroid stage with no lava or turning gimmick. It's getting annoying.

 

[Tacel]

Subspace Emissary Enemies for Smash 4:

Mario Series
Bad guys:
All Goombas
All Koopas
Hammer Bros.
Piranha Plants
Boos
Shy Guys

Boss: King Boo


Legend of Zelda Series
Bad guys:
Skull Kids
Stalfos
ReDeads
Octorock
Bulblins
King Bulblin
Like Likes
Moblin
Keese
Tektite
Wallmaster
Leever
Bubble
Spiders

Boss: ArmoGohma


Metroid Series
Metroids

Boss: Kraid


Kirby Series
Bad guys:
Boomer
Chilly
Blockin
Golem
Knuckle Joe

Boss: Dynablade


Starfox Series
Bad guys:
Hob bot
Aparoid
Garuda

Boss: Andross


Donkey Kong Series
Bad guys:
Hogs
Screech
Kritter
Barrels

Boss: KAOS


Yoshi Series
Bad guys:
Pak E. Derm
Kamek
Shy Guys

Boss: Baby Bowser


Pokemon Series
Bad guys:
Meowth
Ekans
Magnemite
Starly
Bidoof
Shinx
Ursaring
Mamoswine
Koffing
Weezing
Grimer
Muk
Galactic Grunts
Rocket Grunts

Boss: Giratina


F-Zero Series
Bad guys:
Cars

Boss: ???


EarthBound/Mother Series
Bad guys:
Pork Trooper
Gang Zombie
Skate Punk
Clayman

Boss: Starman Deluxe

WarioWare Series
Bad guys:
None

Boss: None


Pikmin Series
Bad guys:
Dwarf Red Bulborb
Bulborb Larva
Puffy Blowhog
Water Dumple

Boss: Red Bulborb


Game & Watch Series
Bad guys:
None

Boss: None


Kid Icarus Series
Bad guys:
None

Boss: None


Ice Climber Series
Bad guys:
Topi
Nitpicker
Polar Bear

Boss: Mountain-Dwelling Bird


Sonic the Hedgehog Series
Bad guys:
Buzz Bomber
Crabmeat
Burrobot
SCR-HD

Boss: Dr. Eggman in his Eggmobile


Metal Gear Series
Bad guys:
???
Boss: Metal Gear RAY


Fire Emblem Series
Bad guys:
???

Boss: Black Knight

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

For Fire Emblem enemies, you could add enemy soldiers and bandits, TheAceLucario.

And for Pokemon enemies, you could also add Ursaring, Koffing/Weezing, Mamoswine, and Grimer/Muk.

Also, you should add a section for the Megaman series since Megaman is not only the most likely third-party character to appear playable in Smash 4, he's also the most deserving, apparently.

 

[Pieman0920]

Samurai Goroh wouldn't work as a boss. He's too tiny. If he was some type of playable character that you had to beat to pass the level, then I guess that could work, but as a boss like the ones in SSE, he's just too small. (And yes, size is neccesary for the bosses, since otherwise you'd simply be smashing them around like any other opponent.)

In addition, I find it suspect that there would be a need for the Yoshi and DK seriesto truly need to stray from the Mario series, and all that'd be neccesary is to throw a few Kremlings and Shy Guys in there to make everything good enough. While I guess you could argue for DK to be seperated more, at the very least I think Yoshi should be merged.

 

[LuVr]

characters that could show in the game:
- megaman (...duh)
- K.Rool (dk series)
- Team Rocket (the same physics as pkmn trainer w/meowth, arbok and weezing)
- mewtwo (melee)
- pichu (i mained him in melee no hate plz)
- roy (melee)
- dr mario (melee)
- simon (castlevania)
- Geno (mario rpg)
- Crystal (starfox)

 

[Heartz♥]

Wow, you totally skipped Like Likes. They are more popular than "Spiders".

I am pretty sure you were meaning to say "Tektites". lol

 

[Tacel]

Ok, I added some.
I couldn't think of any other bad guys for Metroid other than metroids.
Any ideas?

EDIT: *Facepalm* How could I forget Like Likes? *Adds*
I have spiders to lead into ArmoGohma

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

To LuVr: If you're suggesting Team Rocket, do you mean generic Rocket Grunts or Giovanni? Those two ideas are good if there is a need for a Team Rocket rep, and I don't know about them using Weezing or Meowth, but Arbok could work as a playable character, though Rayquaza could be resized to be a playable character and thus would be a better choice.

Dr. Mario is better off as one of Mario's alternate costumes, and if you think that it's odd for Dr. Mario to use fireballs (which is what Sakurai thought once), then that's thinking the wrong way.

The Smash series already has two male swordsmen repping FE, we don't need a third one, even if he gets a more original moveset.

Krystal is a great idea! That's something positive!

Simon is okay, but I think SSB4 will only have one new third-party rep, and Megaman is most likely, which is fine by me.

 

[lordvaati]

I would like to see the following guys as bosses in the next Smash:

Vaati(eye form)

Masked Man

Metal Gear REX

Giratina

Kracko(or even Drawcia)

Dr. Robotnik

Dr. Wily

Medusa(KI)

 

[BKupa666]

Samurai Goroh wouldn't work as a boss. He's too tiny. If he was some type of playable character that you had to beat to pass the level, then I guess that could work, but as a boss like the ones in SSE, he's just too small. (And yes, size is neccesary for the bosses, since otherwise you'd simply be smashing them around like any other opponent.)

In addition, I find it suspect that there would be a need for the Yoshi and DK seriesto truly need to stray from the Mario series, and all that'd be neccesary is to throw a few Kremlings and Shy Guys in there to make everything good enough. While I guess you could argue for DK to be seperated more, at the very least I think Yoshi should be merged.

I understand what you are saying about Goroh's size, which is why I would like to introduce the idea of a mini-boss. These would be pretty cool to see in Smash (although it would only really work well if the main bosses got more HP to be harder and allow mini-bosses to be differentiated from the larger normal enemies), and if Goroh is not on the playable roster, he could function as one of these quite well. He would be weaker than normal bosses, and have less HP, but be a smaller and faster target to add some challenge. And he wouldn't take knockback, either, as this would defeat the purpose of being a mini-boss.

It depends whether Yoshi and DK are shown in their respective worlds. If Yoshi had some level on Yoshi's Island, it would make sense for him to have maybe some Shy Guys, Piranha Plants, and YI-esque enemies over Koopas and Goombas. It is true that they are somewhat merged, but the enemies I mentioned seem to be more Yoshi-associated nowadays (there aren't as many Mario games with Shy Guys as main enemies), so they should be somewhat separated, although not too much so. Same with DK; if he got put in a Kongo Jungle level, Kremlings and other DKC foes would be nice to see. You definitely wouldn't see normal Mario enemies in there (the SSE Jungle is not really DKC, so it wouldn't count), so you're right in that it should be different.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Some suggestions Scooby (or shoud I just say ideas from my own stage lists that I'm not done yet, since I'm lazy/I'm actually finding the music for them all)

If you want, I could find BGM music for the stages if you're not really up to it. Look at the updated stage list.

For Metroid you should add in Skytown, and I'd also say remove Chozo Ruins and replace it with something from the non-Prime series, though that could just be my own want of Skytown. Still I think that's slightly more justified than Chozo Ruins, since that was from Prime 1, which already has a stage, in comparison to Prime 3 which wasn't recognized in Brawl. In addition I'd also add in Sauria from Star Fox as their second stage.

*Fire Emblem snippet*

I actually chose Chozo Ruins because of it's history in relation to Samus (in the manga, anyway). It also appears in Metroid Zero Mission where ZSS makes her appearance. I thought it'd represent them both quite well, but that's me. I added Skytown, though.

And what, replace Sargasso Hideout with Sauria or just add Sauria? Oh, and I will be adding those FE stages shortly. Thanks.

a few suggestions:
For Kirby, the stage should be The World of Drawcia, if only because a surrealist painting stage would look really good in Smash.

Will add.

Sounds good, but City Trail is a beast... the music alone needs to be in SSB4: Kirby Air Ride Soundtrack - City

instead of another Flat Zone, why not Game & Watch Gallery- it would be kind of like the Warioware stage in a sense, and most importantly: not small.

FlatZone 2 in Brawl was basically a gallery of sorts.

Sonic Death Egg, just so we can have more stages set in space besides Star Fox ones.

Actually wanted one of Sonic's adventure mode stages to be the Space Colony ARK.

*Mini-Boss snippet*

Not to sound like an ***, but I suggested this. lol

Even gave an example of how it'd work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWX_6a7jHWE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5-jYQhEmWg

 

[Pieman0920]

I understand what you are saying about Goroh's size, which is why I would like to introduce the idea of a mini-boss. These would be pretty cool to see in Smash (although it would only really work well if the main bosses got more HP to be harder and allow mini-bosses to be differentiated from the larger normal enemies), and if Goroh is not on the playable roster, he could function as one of these quite well. He would be weaker than normal bosses, and have less HP, but be a smaller and faster target to add some challenge. And he wouldn't take knockback, either, as this would defeat the purpose of being a mini-boss.

It still doesn't sound right to me. Why would he not take knockback if he's the same relative size as say Falcon? Really, I think in the end its just easily avoided by not letting F-Zero have any real enemies at all, and just have it something like Melee's Adventure mode with no real boss at the end, or just have your character fight a F-Zero character. (Say Goroh if he's playable, and if he's not, just have Falcon as Blood Falcon.) Heck, the best character to fill up a space as a real F-Zero boss, aka Deathborn doesn't really have any in game attacks. (Though he's implied to have teleportation powers where he teleports others)

It depends whether Yoshi and DK are shown in their respective worlds. If Yoshi had some level on Yoshi's Island, it would make sense for him to have maybe some Shy Guys, Piranha Plants, and YI-esque enemies over Koopas and Goombas. It is true that they are somewhat merged, but the enemies I mentioned seem to be more Yoshi-associated nowadays (there aren't as many Mario games with Shy Guys as main enemies), so they should be somewhat separated, although not too much so. Same with DK; if he got put in a Kongo Jungle level, Kremlings and other DKC foes would be nice to see. You definitely wouldn't see normal Mario enemies in there (the SSE Jungle is not really DKC, so it wouldn't count), so you're right in that it should be different.

While I know its not entirely faithful to the franchises to merge them together, I think it still has to be done, otherwise you get too many stage and what not. And as for the case of the Yoshi series, there are both Koopas and Goomas in them, and as Shy Guys are indeed Mario enemies, I see no real problem with them. I admit DKC is a bit harder to justify, though I think it'd work in the end, and save time.

Oh and to Scooby, I'm quite all right with looking for music. Its kind of half the thing as far as I'm concerened, as it started out as just searching for music for SSB4, though it dawned on me that the music choices are impacted by the stages that are there, and thus why I decided to include stages with it. Its also the reason I chose Skytown over any other MP3 location, as wel as why I'm hesitant on adding in any Chozo Ruins due to the fact that the music selection would be close, and I need a more action oriented level, so I'm trying to think of a good non-Prime space pirate level at the moment.

Oh and about Flatzone 3 (which I technically have in my stage list) the only other option I think could work besides making it the same as all the other Flatzones but with different games, is to actually fight on top of the Game & Watch itself, though to me that sounds kind of like my Trophy Tussle idea.

 

[Starphoenix]

For the F-Zero boss, Deathborn would suit the role much better, having the teleporting ability and all.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Here's an idea for a new Smash 4 music idea: Super Wario Bros.! Here's what it would be: You remember that Super Wario Bros. microgame from the fiirst Wario Ware game? Yeah, the song would play like that of Super Mario Bros., but with stuff like dog barks.

Also, how tall do you guys think Little Mac should be? Should he be about Luigi's size?

 

[Terra~]

All that is needed is to add Geno and Megaman. Perfect<3

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

What is also needed is to cut Toon Link and Jigglypuff (and possibly Peach unless she gets less sexist moves).

 

[ScoobyCafe]

@Pieman0920: Guess I'll stop searching for BGMs then.

Oh and about Flatzone 3 (which I technically have in my stage list) the only other option I think could work besides making it the same as all the other Flatzones but with different games, is to actually fight on top of the Game & Watch itself, though to me that sounds kind of like my Trophy Tussle idea.

Sounds exactly like the trophy event stages in Melee. Just keep Flatzone 3 like the other Flatzones.

Also, how tall do you guys think Little Mac should be? Should he be about Luigi's size?

A bit taller than Luigi, but not quite the same size as Link. That'd be the perfect height.

What is also needed is to cut Toon Link and Jigglypuff

As in cut from the roster? No characters should be cut, imo.

Sakurai crapped on Toon Link's potential. He's capable of having a moveset which doesn't mimic Link's.

 

[Tacel]

Also, how tall do you guys think Little Mac should be? Should he be about Luigi's size?

He should be little.

Sakurai crapped on Toon Link's potential. He's capable of having a moveset which doesn't mimic Link's.

Yes, he could have been a completely different character.
He could have actually used his windwaker for attacks and he could have thrown cards like he does in that postal mini-game.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

I want Rayman. Really, really bad.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

He should be little.

lol

He isn't really "little" though. He's 5′ 7″ in the new Punch-Out!! while he was like 4′ 8″ in the original, IIRC.

Yes, he could have been a completely different character.
He could have actually used his windwaker for attacks and he could have thrown cards like he does in that postal mini-game.

He should be able to glide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAS1ArLzah4

It's a AR video, but you get the idea. Got any other ideas for a better Toon Link?

 

[§leepy God]

I want Rayman. Really, really bad.

♪ Seeing how Rayman is getting more into Nintendo now, I wouldn't be suprise to see him in the next Smash. Though in TMNT Smash up the Rabbids are in as playable characters... well two of them. †

 

[Fatmanonice]

It's a AR video, but you get the idea. Got any other ideas for a better Toon Link?

The grappling hook would be a nice addition as would the Hurricane strike as a Final Smash.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

The grappling hook would be a nice addition as would the Hurricane strike as a Final Smash.

Nice. Ballad of Gales for his FS.

Would the grappling hook be his grab or up special?

 

[BKupa666]

Here's an idea for a new Smash 4 music idea: Super Wario Bros.! Here's what it would be: You remember that Super Wario Bros. microgame from the fiirst Wario Ware game? Yeah, the song would play like that of Super Mario Bros., but with stuff like dog barks.

This >>> Super Wario Bros.

 

[n88]

My ideas for Toon Link -

B - Pinwheel Tornado (from the Spirit Tracks trailers)

B> - Boomerang (Except you could hold the command and draw a path for the boomerang with your analog, Phantom Hourglass Style)

B\/ - Bombchu (similar to bomb, except he just sets it on the ground and it runs forward) OR Phantom (Toon Link sets down his Phantom Buddy from Spirit Tracks trailers. The Phantom has HP which can be increased by charging the attack. The Phantom will walk around slowly and attack enemies, independently of Toon Link. Only one Phantom at a time)

B/\ - Deku Leaf (similar to Snake's)

FS - Toon Link uses the Phantom Hourglass to freeze time for a few seconds. Frozen characters take no knockback. (Basically, it just racks damage, but is impossible to avoid)

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Toon Link

Skull Hammer should be his F-Smash.
Toon Link should be able to glide via Deku Leaf.
Boomerang shouldn't do any damage, but rather stun the opponent briefly upon contact.
Same up special, however, he's able to move left or right while using it on the ground (Like Luigi)

I agree with Bombchus, though I think he should keep the arrows for his neutral special.

 

[Clownbot]

Samurai Goroh wouldn't work as a boss. He's too tiny.

Ridley wouldn't work as a playable character. He's too big.

Spoiler

c wut i did thar?

 

[Pieman0920]

Ridley wouldn't work as a playable character. He's too big.

Spoiler

c wut i did thar?

Not really the same situation. Ridley has shown to have variable sizes, being the same size as Samus, to the size he was in Brawl, to even larger than that. Goroh on the other hand is only human sized, because he's well...human. To that end, if he were to be hit, he'd fly around, just like any other smash character, because he's their relative size, rather than a giant boss, which they can't knock around. Thus, while size may not be a issue for one character, it can be for another. (At least when you're discussing ways that they could be a boss)

Also, in regards to Toon Link: I think it'd be interesting if his Wind Waker was used in a way simmilar to Rachel from Blazblue, though I don't think Smash's mechanics would really allow him to do that. (Along with the fact that if he could do that, it'd be a total rip off)

 

[n88]

What does Rachel in Blazblue do?

Samurai Goroh could work as a boss if he was in his car.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Also, in regards to Toon Link: I think it'd be interesting if his Wind Waker was used in a way simmilar to Rachel from Blazblue, though I don't think Smash's mechanics would really allow him to do that.

:|

:o

:O

So, so good. Now I'm gonna devise a way for this to work.

What does Rachel in Blazblue do?

She's able to control the wind to an extent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Wdj4iX-YE

 

[Tacel]

Toon Link could also blow away enemies with the leaf.

 

[ffdgh]

i call master foot
i call crazy foot
i call master face
i call crazy face
i call giga bowser actually being a epic boss like he was in melee
i call for harder event matches (60+ this time around)
i call a new version of princess's castle
i call ****ing bowser castle DARN IT
i call for twilight relm to be playable
i call for a moving Rainbow Road wii to be playable
i call for gigas lair (lol)
i call for snow point for pokemon or sun shore city or iron island
i call for a new fzero character and stage

just a few thoughts lol

 

[Pieman0920]

Back before Brawl came out, I made up a Toon Link moveset that basically used the wind waker to set the wind either left or right until it was changed again. The only real thing I used this for though was his Up B which was the Deku Leaf, as well as possbily being a way to screw up other people's recovery. If it were to work like how Rachel's win mechanic in BlazBlue does, I'd think it'd be a down B move where you pull the thing out, and then change the direction from there until you cancel out of it. Of course this doesn't work as well as Rachel's since it'd require the down B to be used first and then the exit, which may take up too much time.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Looks like I missed a lot...

Oh well, I'll just bring up something I've been thinking about for a while. Luigi's moveset.

While Luigi's moveset has become a lot more diverse from Mario's with Brawl, I still feel it an be much more unique and Luigi can be completely de-cloned. I know, I know, Sakurai needs to focus on de-cloning other characters like Lucas, Falco, Ganondorf, Toon Link (especially), etc., but I'm only saying if he ever got around to it, this is what I think Luigi's completely de-cloned moveset should appear like.

STANDARD B: ~ Luigi Cyclone
This move used to be Luigi's Down Special, but now pressing B will unleash the Luigi Cyclone. Pressing B repeatedly will allow Luigi to rise as he is rotating, knocking away opponents.

SIDE B: ~ Green Missile
Luigi ducks down and charges up power, and as you release the B button, Luigi will release his energy and fly with tremendous force, headfirst, in the desired direction. The more this move is charged, the farther Luigi will fly and the more damage he will do.

UP B: ~ Super Spin Jump
This is the first replaced move. Instead of the Super Jump Punch, similar to Mario's, Luigi gets a new move. This move is seen in Super Mario World. Anyway, Luigi will jump spinning rapidly, scoring consecutive hits as he connects with opponents. The coin animation also appears. As Luigi reaches the Climax of his jump, he begins to come down hard. Any opponent under him will be smashed into the ground if he connects at the end of the move. This move is a lot faster than his previous Up B move.

DOWN B: ~ Poltergust 4000
I can't remember if it was 3000 or 4000, so don't flame for this. But anyway, this is Luigi's second and most unique replaced move. Luigi pulls out the famous vacuum and begins vacuming. The vacuum will suck up proectiles fired at Luigi and store them. Up to five projectiles can be stored. When five projectiles are stored, you can blow out a single ball of energy gathered from all the projectiles. The damage done from the ball will be the average damage that would have been done by all five projectiles.



That's what I came up with. Don't give me anything like "Toon Link deserves a de-cloned moveset before Luigi", because I know that. I'm just saying, if it ever happened, this is what I would want it to look like. So what do you think?

 

[ffdgh]

4000 is the kart fromm mkds
3000 is the original

u couldn't really consider clones since they r related and both appeared with the games moves in the early game and taking away luigi's fireball is a tad drastic as it's one of his main approaches
and the vaccum idea........not really effective unless there are energy based attacks
and i like the current SHORYUKEN for luigi lol

 

[Pieman0920]

In regards to the Luigi moveset, I would not make his cyclone attack his neutral B. While I know you don't want him to be a clone, but his fireball is part of who he is, just like Mario. Still if you insit on it not being a cloned move (which it really isn't) you could always switch over to the thunder glove from M&L. In addition, the cyclone is simmilar to your proposed Up B.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I guess he doesn't really need de-cloned, but I've always waned to see him with his vacuum, it just seems so appropriate considering that the vacuum was from a game that Luigi was actually the main star of instead of a co-star.

But about the Samurai Goroh thing, he wouldn't be a great boss. Like Pieman said, he is about Captain Falcon's size, so hitting him would knock him around as opposed to large boss characters like Ridley, who barely flinch because of their size. Imagine fighting Samurai Goroh as Bowser. Bowser could easily send him flying, but as a boss he would have to be still, which would look a bit strange. I would love to see Samurai Goroh playable, though.

I actually just came up with a unique boss battle that features Samurai Goroh, however. It takes place on the Falcon Flyer, fighting Samurai Goroh. Instead of taking damage, he just gets knocked back. The more damage an attack WOULD do, the farther he would get knocked back. However, your character takes damage. Basically, the point is to knock Samurai Goroh of the Falcon Flyer, KOing him.