Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread

[DeliciousCake]

i think zss worst match ups are Game and watch 2nd with his annoying turtle shell is pretty much self explanatory. 3rd Falco to much prio. 4th Sonic He moves to fast for most of zss moves. I don't have a 5th at the moment but Bum163's ike Caught me of guard He two stocked me With my main, i used kirby dropped him 2 1 life i believe he was using peach,and then i played luigi against his mario dropped him to 1 life Then again Bum is the best NY i did what i could.

Number 1 obviously goes to MK. Snake is probably 6th.

Dude seriously start using punctuation.

 

[NeoZero]

What Rock really should have said was something like this:

My thoughts on Zss' worst match-ups, in order of difficulty:
1.Metaknight
2.G&W
3.Falco
4.Sonic
5.Ike (IMHO)
6.Snake (IMHO)
-------------
Doesn't that look much better, not to mention that fact that it's easy to understand?

I also have one other thing I want to say:

Why are you mentionning your other matches with Bum?! I can understand the first one, saying he caught you off guard with Ike, but why mention the other matches when you played as KIRBY and LUIGI against his PEACH and MARIO. All your doing is trying to brag about yourself, and very poorly at that.

NOTE: My interpretation of what rock Rock said is in RED

 

[TheRockSays]

What Rock really should have said was something like this:

My thoughts on Zss' worst match-ups, in order of difficulty:
1.Metaknight
2.G&W
3.Falco
4.Sonic
5.Ike (IMHO)
6.Snake (IMHO)
-------------
Doesn't that look much better, not to mention that fact that it's easy to understand?

I also have one other thing I want to say:

Why are you mentionning your other matches with Bum?! I can understand the first one, saying he caught you off guard with Ike, but why mention the other matches when you played as KIRBY and LUIGI against his PEACH and MARIO. All your doing is trying to brag about yourself, and very poorly at that.

NOTE: My interpretation of what rock Rock said is in RED

thxs for the fixing im usually almost falling asleep at that time lol. Yea but bum's ike caught me of guard with 2 jab combo, then grab i could not escape could not jump or anything especially that we have a bad shield and the reason i started blabering about bum is cause usually i would give the 5th spot to mario usually we can basically call it the bum spot.

 

[NeoZero]

Could you please do us all a favor. Use proper sentence structure and punctuation. Those things are important. It also makes it much easier to understand what your saying.

And its not so much that we have a bad shield, more that our options out of shield are not as abundant as we would like it to be.

 

[kuenzel]

well, for starters w/ falco, he can chain grab you, though you can get out of the basic CG w/ your down-b (even w/out di) but he can still chain grab you by spiking + Grab- Pros- you can get him up to like 60 w/ your down smash Combo

edit: of course that's not it, thats just the basics we should get out of the way.

 

[Yankee]

well, for starters w/ falco, he can chain grab you, though you can get out of the basic CG w/ your down-b (even w/out di) but he can still chain grab you by spiking + Grab- Pros- you can get him up to like 60 w/ your down smash Combo

edit: of course that's not it, thats just the basics we should get out of the way.

We are done with falco... Why don't people read the OP and last page before they post?

 

[DeliciousCake]

well, for starters w/ falco, he can chain grab you, though you can get out of the basic CG w/ your down-b (even w/out di) but he can still chain grab you by spiking + Grab- Pros- you can get him up to like 60 w/ your down smash Combo

edit: of course that's not it, thats just the basics we should get out of the way.

Pro Falco players can chain-grab you as long as they want.

 

[Snakeee]

thxs for the fixing im usually almost falling asleep at that time lol. Yea but bum's ike caught me of guard with 2 jab combo, then grab i could not escape could not jump or anything especially that we have a bad shield and the reason i started blabering about bum is cause usually i would give the 5th spot to mario usually we can basically call it the bum spot.

Anyone can escape that, it's never guaranteed. Also, ZSS' shield is not bad or if you meant out of shield options they're really not bad contrary to popular belief.

And when did you play against Bum? I don't know of anyone using ZSS in NY except um...Guilty7 I think was his tag.

Btw, your list of ZSS' worst match ups is pretty off no offense or anything.
Seriously, Ike????????? ZSS has to be one of HIS worst match ups by far. It's probably his second worst. You can camp the hell out of him, and shield grab his f-air/n-air at full distance. He gets gimped, comboed the crap out of, etc etc.
If you're saying that because of Bum, he's the best player in NY and he can play well with a lot of characters.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Anyone can escape that, it's never guaranteed. Also, ZSS' shield is not bad or if you meant out of shield options they're really not bad contrary to popular belief.

And when did you play against Bum? I don't know of anyone using ZSS in NY except um...Guilty7 I think was his tag.

Btw, your list of ZSS' worst match ups is pretty off no offense or anything.
Seriously, Ike????????? ZSS has to be one of HIS worst match ups by far. It's probably his second worst. You can camp the hell out of him, and shield grab his f-air/n-air at full distance. He gets gimped, comboed the crap out of, etc etc.
If you're saying that because of Bum, he's the best player in NY and he can play well with a lot of characters.

There is just no way in hell bum is the best in New York... he's an amazing player but, there are a few other people who ... nvm there really aren't.

Btw what place you take in the brawl singles at GT? That and i wanted to play a 2nd time in person... also did you take 2nd or 3rd in doubles?

and @ delicious diddnt snakeee say a while back that you can D-B outta most Chain grabs and combos? Or was that for DeDeDe only, i just haven't been keeping up on my activity with SWF lately. I need to get my act together and gear up for the next tourney, i'm in shambles .

 

[Snakeee]

There is just no way in hell bum is the best in New York... he's an amazing player but, there are a few other people who ... nvm there really aren't.

Btw what place you take in the brawl singles at GT? That and i wanted to play a 2nd time in person... also did you take 2nd or 3rd in doubles?

and @ delicious diddnt snakeee say a while back that you can D-B outta most Chain grabs and combos? Or was that for DeDeDe only, i just haven't been keeping up on my activity with SWF lately. I need to get my act together and gear up for the next tourney, i'm in shambles .

Me, Anti, and Jman split the pot but technically I got 2nd since we played it out afterwards. Doubles was meh, I played with someone I never teamed with before that uses a character that doesn't live that long Well, we got 3rd. And yeah I wanted to get more friendlies in. Oh well next time.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Me, Anti, and Jman split the pot but technically I got 2nd since we played it out afterwards. Doubles was meh, I played with someone I never teamed with before that uses a character that doesn't live that long Well, we got 3rd. And yeah I wanted to get more friendlies in. Oh well next time.

Ya but for a Jpuff player he was doing fairly good, i wasn't watching the ending rounds where he was playing Kirby but i heard he was doing better there.

Jman was sand bagging the entire god **** tourney, i was watching him and half the people who knew him were cracking up as he was doing the funniest ****.

And good round btw, Fox vs ZSS is a pain in the *** even though your Dmash chain was unpolished it still does a solid chunk of damage. Looking foward to the next GT tourney, next time i'll take off from work. I enjoy watching half the players there fall to the ZSS combos .

And i know i keep saying this but i need to get in a ZSS ditto >.>

 

[ph00tbag]

ZSS can't Flip Jump out of DDD's chain grab. She's in hitstun all the way to the ground. She can tech, but DDD can still chase those techs.

I don't know. I must have never been properly chain grabbed by a Falco. I could always escape on the first throw. Then again, I've only played one dedicated Falco main.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

ZSS can't Flip Jump out of DDD's chain grab. She's in hitstun all the way to the ground. She can tech, but DDD can still chase those techs.

I don't know. I must have never been properly chain grabbed by a Falco. I could always escape on the first throw. Then again, I've only played one dedicated Falco main.

Meh, falco has a great match up against err... all my mains. Does that Dsmash chain **** apply to falco or is it fox exclusive? I need to find a counter for falco he's some serious trouble.

 

[James Sparrow]

works on falco too

 

[NickRiddle]

ZSS can't Flip Jump out of DDD's chain grab. She's in hitstun all the way to the ground. She can tech, but DDD can still chase those techs.

I don't know. I must have never been properly chain grabbed by a Falco. I could always escape on the first throw. Then again, I've only played one dedicated Falco main.

If you DI the d-throw up, and airdodge, you can jab or flip-jump before D3 can regrab you.

 

[DeliciousCake]

and @ delicious diddnt snakeee say a while back that you can D-B outta most Chain grabs and combos? Or was that for DeDeDe only, i just haven't been keeping up on my activity with SWF lately. I need to get my act together and gear up for the next tourney, i'm in shambles .

Nearly frame-perfect chain-grabbing by Falco is impossibly to Flip Jump out of. You have to rely on your opponent timing poorly; it just gives you an easier escape option than most others because it's fast and unexpected. But it's not guaranteed to get you out of it.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Nearly frame-perfect chain-grabbing by Falco is impossibly to Flip Jump out of. You have to rely on your opponent timing poorly; it just gives you an easier escape option than most others because it's fast and unexpected. But it's not guaranteed to get you out of it.

Ahhh ic, i honestly dont feel like combing this thread for the answer but does ZSS have a generally even, bad or good match-up vs falco. I don't want a debate just a one word answer .

 

[TheZeroSuit]

Updated OP with Falco matchup. Changed the format a little to better summarize the matchup advice: added a section about Suitpiece use. If you have any input on how to use suitpieces on Snake, please, feel free to contribute.

As for the next character being discussed:

 

[TheZeroSuit]

MR. GAME AND WATCH

Pros:

• Can outrange Mr. Game and Watch's smashes with Plasma Whip.
• Mr. Game and Watch has difficulty shielding the last hit of ZSS's jab combo.

Cons:

• Mr. Game and Watch can bucket ZSS's D-Smash and Neutral-B.
• Mr. Game and Watch has better aerial game due to damage and priority.
• Mr. Game and Watch's powerful smashes can KO early.

Final Verdict: 60:40​

Matchup Advice:

• Game Plan:
  Space Mr. Game and Watch with Plasma Whip until he is forced to approach, and then punish.
  
  
• Suitpiece Strategy:
  Mr. Game and Watch has a very significant glidetoss, so be wary of letting him control your pieces. However, since Mr. Game and Watch lacks a long range projectile hitbox or a reflector, you have a large advantage with suitpieces. Use Neutral-B shots to either stun (for a guaranteed piece hit) or bait him into bucketing (another guaranteed piece hit). Another thing to keep in mind is Mr. Game and Watch can D-Tilt repeatedly to protect himself from projectiles, keep this in mind and mix-up your suitpieces with Side-B.
  
  
• Long Range:
  Neither character has a significant projectile at this range, no one is going to be doing anything.
  
  
• Medium Range:
  As usual, this is a great range for ZSS. Repeated Side-Bs will force Mr. Game and Watch to approach with aerials (since his dash and roll are both bad). If he tries to short-hop towards you with an aerial, perform a retreating Side-B to punish the lengthy hitboxes. Also, refrain from using Neutral-B, since Mr. Game and Watch can bucket it to contribute to a rather hard hitting Oil Spill.
  
  
• Close Range:
  If Mr. Game and Watch is able to close the gap and get close to you, he has a number of options. He can pressure you with D-Tilt, jab, and grabs or he can perform smashes in an attempt to KO. In most situations, this would put ZSS at a great disadvantage, however, since Mr. Game and Watch has trouble shielding the third hit of the jab combo, you have a 1 frame attack to space Mr. Game and Watch back to Medium Range. If at any point you feel threatened by Mr. Game and Watch at close range, jab. Jab will be able to interrupt all of Mr. Game and Watch's smashes, which should allow you to live for extended periods of time and make Mr. Game and Watch rely on F-Air for kills.
  
  
• In the air:
  Surprisingly, ZSS does not want to join Mr. Game and Watch in the air. While both characters are in the air, Mr. Game and Watch will be able to perform any number of very high priority, high damage attacks. He also has fairly good aerial mobility and speed, enough to be comparable to ZSS's. However, the landing lag of Mr. Game and Watch's aerials are all rather significant. The plan here is to go into the air to bait Mr. Game and Watch into performing an aerial close to the ground (most frequently D-Air) and then punish the landing lag with Side-B. This is the situation you want to exploit when forcing Mr. Game and Watch to approach.
  
  
• When Mr. Game and Watch is Recovering:
  Unless you catch him off-guard with a Side-B off the stage, there probably is not much you can do off-stage (since he has great returning hitboxes and an amazing Up-B). However, once Mr. Game and Watch has grabbed the ledge, he is very limited in his options. Since his ledge attack and roll are fairly bad, most Mr. Game and Watch's will resort to ledgehopping or jumping from the edge with an aerial. Both of these options are easily punished with a D-Smash. As a general rule, wait until Mr. Game and Watch has grabbed the edge and begin charging a D-Smash. When Mr. Game and Watch begins moving off of the ledge or his invincibility runs out, release. Good follow-ups include B-Air stage spike, Down-B spike, and B-Air.
  
  
• When ZSS is Recovering:
  The main aerial to look out for while recovering is Mr. Game and Watch's F-Air. It is extremely powerful when it first comes out and lingers for a significant amount of time. Also, be careful when recovering with tether, if Mr. Game and Watch performs a B-Air while dropping alongside your tether, it has a high chance of stage spiking you.
  
  
• Matchup Unique Information:
  Mr. Game and Watch can be grab released to the air, where you have a guaranteed U-Air or F-Air. Mr. Game and Watch's D-Throw can be teched by tapping a shoulder button towards the end of the animation (when he juggles the fourth ball). You can also DI his D-Throw behind him to prevent jab and D-Tilt follow-ups.
  

Counterpick Advice:

• Stages to Counter-pick:
  • Final Destination - A nice flat stage where you can properly space and predict Mr. Game and Watch's aerials and approaches. Nothing fancy here, just a great stage to amplify the match-up advantage.
  • Pokemon Stadium 1 - Another rather large stage, great for spacing. Comes with the added bonus of tricky edges (to mess with Mr. Game and Watch's ledge game) and stage transformations that you can exploit (since Mr. Game and Watch doesn't have hitboxes to go through walls and such).
  • Jungle Japes - With such a high ceiling and an expansive stage, Japes is a solid pick. However, since the platforms on the side cause problems with Side-B, this should be considered a double-edged sword.
• Stages to Avoid:
  • Stages that force you both into the air (Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, etc.)
  • Low Ceiling stages (Corneria, Halberd, etc.)

Mr. Game and Watch Contributors:

A2ZOMG
Thanks guy!​

Mr. Game and Watch's Thread​

Old Information:

Current match-up advice:

Only use paralyzer when you catch him off guard, other wise don't use it.
Stick to Dsmash.

Don't use moves that'll leave you vulnerable when he's high up. Do a couple fake aerial approaches and try to make him use his D-Air. That way you can just get in position and Side-Special, D-Smash, and whatnot.

Also your D-tilt is godly against him, and spamming grabs generally puts him in the air. So either scare him into going aerial and use your U-Special, Up Smash, or do a SH U-Air.

The one issue I do have fighting Game and Watch is because of anticipating a DI from throws. All of them look, relatively the same. Also his Up+Smash, and Side-Smash are the two moves you want to avoid entirely. Don't get to close and keep enough pressure and spacing so you don't get Flaming-Poop-on-a-sticked.

For the G&W conversation, i treat him kinda like a would toon like. Put him up in the air and bait him to use his dair on top of you. It is easy to dodge if you expect it, then you can punish easily with a side B or combos, depending on his percent.

G&W can break through your defenses too easily, and this is a major problem. He can through your Forward B spacing quite easily which is the main option at a distance especially since he can bucket your Paralyzer shots.
So once he closes the gap you are pretty likely to get hit. You're going to have to shield camp a lot when he gets in close and go for a power shield if possible. G&W will eat ZSS' shield quickly if you don't find a way out.
You even have to watch out for him bucketing your D-smash (which will cause the strongest move in the game), but this is a lot harder for him to do.

By now we should have this down, use the format given on OP, and go to town!

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

MR. GAME AND WATCH

Current match-up advice:







By now we should have this down, use the format given on OP, and go to town!

Tell DSR that G&W can bucket ZSS's Dsmash... and lemme tell you it packs a wallop.

I guess i'll be reading the falco matchup after all later >.>

 

[FadedImage]

lolraped by smashboards!

 

[FadedImage]

I guess i'll be reading the falco matchup after all later >.>

In one word: horrible.

the Falco matchup is 3:7 Falco's favor. If you don't know the ratio system, lemme explain.

5:5 even matchup

4:6 soft counter, disadvantaged matchup (things like our matchup with Snake, it's uphill, but far from unwinnable)

3:7 hard counter, extremely disadvantaged matchup (the character's playstyle is perfect for ****** yours, things like Peach's matchup with Olimar, it's really difficult to overcome the obstacles, but it's still winnable.)

2:8 WTF hard counter, this is the result of things like, infinites/zero-to-deaths, and the like. Dedede's matchup with all of the infinite-able characters, like DK or Samus, Marth's matchup with Ness, etc.

1:9 Completely unwinnable, this matchup doesn't really exist in Brawl, it's reserved for absolutely broken matchups where skill is absolutely negligible. This character will always lose against that one, no matter how good you are and how bad they are.

By now we should have this down, use the format given on OP, and go to town!

lol, I just realized that was a rhyme... I'm a poet and don't even know it. lol

Anyways, I'll post my thoughts on GaW probably tomorrow, when smashboards stops sucking balls at speed.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Tell DSR that G&W can bucket ZSS's Dsmash... and lemme tell you it packs a wallop.

I guess i'll be reading the falco matchup after all later >.>

3 paralyzer shots (yes, even uncharged) or 3 d-smashes (also uncharged) into GnW's bucket is a 02D kill when fresh.

 

[knightzy]

When I throw G&W into the air I find it extremly usefull to use n-air,I dont know if this works for you guys or not,I dont use this move often,but it seems to work well against G&W, against his d-air I find it to work well as you can keep out of his range and has deceptive range.

 

[TheRockSays]

I live In NY proof: ask bum. I will use punctuation marks, god if it makes you happy. Next time ill pick Final D as a counter pick against bum, because its my favorite stage. And for some reason i was not landing my b-air. But on to the task at hand.

Mr.Game and watch is the most dangerous character i have ever faced in this game Due. That reason alone is that broken B-air of his plus going through my shield its unfair. I have no tactical solution against this monster. I have beaten MK in tight games, but i have gotten 3 stocked against G&W. Players: Meltdown XYZ, And my Cousin.

 

[Yankee]

The match up is pretty straight forward. You are going to see a lot of bairs,fairs,dairs,and nairs. He has very little lag so it is very important to take advantage of most mistakes. He is going to try to jump all over you, so pick a stage that isn't too tight. Pick a wide, flat stage so that he is easier to space. As far as killing goes, you have an advantage because of his extremely light weight. Get rid of him fast before you find yourself in a down throw -> down smash combo or being burned by a front smash. As long as you mix it up, the bucket shouldn't be too much of a problem, just don't use the paralyzer as much.There is a very small chance that he will bucket your down smash like in a double when it is premeditated. His recovery covers a large verticle and decent horizontal distance and he can attack from it, but it isn't impossible to gimp. So all in all:

Pros:
Very Light Weight
Proper spacing can help diminish his airiel game.
Can grab him while he is in his short hop.

Cons:
Bair pokes shields and has tons of priority.
Grab -> Down Smash can possibly kill you if don't teched/get away before the dsmash comes out.
He has good speed and is a threat to your spacing game.
Can bucket your stun gun and downsmash (although the latter is unlikely).
Has very little lag on his moves.

Counter Picks: Anything in the style of Final Destination.

Verdict: 55-45 G&W

 

[Snakeee]

Eh, again my input is old as is everything from that thread. I'd rather you guys not use that or well at least we can go over it and fix it.

The match up against G&W I believe to be 55/45 ZSS' favor. Her spacing is actually very effective against him, and when he does get close enough her jab is very effective after shielding his aerials. The bucket is annoying, but it relys on good reads and on the other hand if the ZSS player makes the read then G&W leaves himself open for a side-b with the bucket.

That's all for now I got work

 

[bludhoundz]

Can you down b directly out of shield? If so, you'd have a way of avoiding turtle ****.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Can you down b directly out of shield? If so, you'd have a way of avoiding turtle ****.

The thing about his turtle is that it holds you in your shield. If you drop your shield to do anything while it's hitting you, you will get hit.

 

[bludhoundz]

That's why I said "directly out of shield." Moves like MK's Shuttle Loop and Marth's Dolphin Slash can be used to counter the turtle this way.

I don't think you can do this with a down b move though.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

That's why I said "directly out of shield." Moves like MK's Shuttle Loop and Marth's Dolphin Slash can be used to counter the turtle this way.

I don't think you can do this with a down b move though.

The reason they work is because the Up-B moves cause you to instantly drop shield and do the move. This is because you can jump out of shield and those moves work like that.

Any other move like ZSS's Down-B requires the shield to first be dropped by letting go of it and then using the move.

 

[FadedImage]

Pros:

• GaW's light weight means earlier KOs.

Cons:

• GaW's bucket puts a dent in ZSS's projectile game.
• GaW can rack up damage fast and KOs early as well.

Final Verdict: 5:5​

Matchup Advice:

• Game Plan:
  Let Game and Watch use his aerials and smashes, predict and punish the lag.
  
  
• Suitpiece Strategy:
  Big advantage here. Since GaW lacks a long range hitbox and can't bucket the pieces, you can pressure him pretty freely. Just like a reflector character, you can try to bait the bucket with paralyzer shots, and then punish with a suitpiece. Something to watch out for: GaW's d-tilt will stop pretty much any horizontal suitpieces. You can also bait the d-tilt with pieces, and then punish with a side-b.
  
  
• Long Range:
  Neither of you have much going here. Just read GaW and see what he's planning on doing. Most likely he'll approach from the air.
  
  
• Medium Range:
  GaW will probably start approaching from the air with b-airs and n-airs. I haven't played too many GaWs, some I'm just sort of spouting out theorycraft here. Staying in your shield against a B-Air is bad, it's just going to eat it all the way up, and then he won't have any lag. I heard it's possible to spotdodge midway through the b-air so that the landing hitbox won't hit, which would be useful, since you could immediately punish with U-Tilt or Jab. I haven't tested it, but how's rolling towards GaW when he's about to B-Air? Just curious if you would be able to roll and dashattack/dsmash/dtilt punish the aerial.
  
  Oh, and of course, don't discourage approaches with the neutral-b, it'll just get bucketed. I assume retreating side-bs would work like normal.
  
  
• Close Range:
  I think I remember hearing that GaW is one of the few characters that can't shield our jab combo? If so, you have a big advantage here in close range. Any weakness you predict can be punished with your 1-frame jab, which will actually complete!!
  
  At any rate, be very very careful of smashes at this range. You should be able to interrupt all of them with jab, but be very careful anyhow. A single smash will kill you at very low percents.
  
  
• In the air:
  This can be a problem if ZSS is above GaW. GaW has great upward hitboxes (N-Air and U-Air), and is fast enough to track ZSS. It's also dangerous to try to d-air GaW, since he can d-air right after you and fastfall just as quickly.
  
  When GaW is above you, it's pretty much key-city. Either try to hit through the key with U-Smash, or bait the key and punish with side-b.
  
  
• When Mr. Game and Watch is Recovering:
  If GaW can't return to the stage by a jump, he's probably going to let himself float down to below the stage in order to sweetspot the edge. It's possible to use your invincibility frames to edgehog GaW, but it's likely that he'll have enough space to make it back on stage. In this case, flipjump off the edge and kick him back off the stage. Other than that, stick to the classic forms of off stage game: side-bs and b-airs.
  
• When ZSS is Recovering:
  Shouldn't be too much to worry about here. F-Air is basically the only hitbox that is useful for GaW's edgeguard, and it's pretty obvious when he's going to use it. The only thing you're probably going to have trouble with is when GaW D-Smashes you out at a horrible angle. Be sure to clear the edge with u-air before trying to tether.
  
  
• Matchup Unique Information:
  ZSS should never be hit by a D-Throw->D-Smash. She should be able to roll and get invinc frames before the d-smash comes out, (iirc). Anyhow, DI behind GaW and tap a shoulder button when you enter the fourth ball. Even if you miss the tech GaW won't be able to jab/dtilt/bucket you.
  
  GaW can be (air) grab-released into a F-Air or a U-Air. If they don't know how to SDI, do the F-Air, if they do (or you suck) do the U-Air.
  

Any other move like ZSS's Down-B requires the shield to first be dropped by letting go of it and then using the move.

Technically, any move that can be used out of jump can be used out-of-shield. You just have to input the jump at the same time as the move. The reason most people do Up-Bs is because (with tapjump set to on) pressing up automatically inputs your jump command, and then the b does your special. People with tap jump off are used to having to press jump manually along with their choice of move.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Meh, guess there are still things you i can still learn. Thx. And i now wish i could delete this thread cus it's just spam.

 

[FadedImage]

woah, dying thread...

come on guys, how are we ever gonna finish up GaW when no one is posting matchup stuffz?!

don't let me down ZSS board!

 

[NeoZero]

All the good stuff has been said
What we need are G&W mains to either confirm or refute what has been said about this matchup... why arn't they here yet?

 

[ph00tbag]

I honestly don't know anything about the GaW match-up. The only GaW player in NC is Ragnar0k, and I've only ever played his DK.

 

[FadedImage]

well whatcha guys think? 5:5 sound good?

 

[Snakeee]

I think it's at least 55/45 or 60/40 ZSS. But, I'm not going to throw a fit over it because 50/50 is possible too.

G&W's usual strategy really doesn't work well on ZSS as she can space him well. Another thing to note is that she is one of the only characters that can consistently break his down air. An Up B will break through it's start up frames and an up smash will always break through if the right part of it hits.

 

[Charby]

I can Add that ZSS's Dsmash can easy space GW dsmash storm, but caution it's very dangerous.

 

[knightzy]

i find that n-air works,because not many people know the range of it,it work well against g&w,but thats just what i think.