TheRockSays
Smash Journeyman
^i agree with you but R.O.B weakness is platforms.
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Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread
- Thread starter TheZeroSuit
- Start date
Snakeee
Smash Master
D-smash is awesome against ROB because it outranges his F-tilt though. That's the first thing I compare it to when I brag about D-smash's range 
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Inoerite? D-smash is teh shiz.
Don't just use Plasma Whip, though. Dsmash, Paralyzer, Plasma Whip... They all outrange any of ROB's ground moves. If all the ROB does is dtilt, then you can punish him with any of those three. He's screwed if he does anything but jabs, dtilts and ftilts, and those just aren't enough.
I also don't see why my strategy isn't solid. I used that strategy to beat Toasty in tournament, and he is one of the best ROBs in Virginia. My strategy works. I actually win with it. It's not just theorycraft; it's applied science.
I also don't see why my strategy isn't solid. I used that strategy to beat Toasty in tournament, and he is one of the best ROBs in Virginia. My strategy works. I actually win with it. It's not just theorycraft; it's applied science.
toasty
Smash Hero
^True story...I didn't read your strategy so all I'm going to say is to be wary of using our match as true proof of a working strategy. You beat me fair and square, outplayed me, etc...but to be fair I knew NOTHING of the matchup because I've never played a ZSS player before [lol, maybe 5 or 6 months ago? but they weren't very good, but seriously I didn't even know if that move you did was nair or fair! that's how little I know about her]. If you're talking about objective Rock-Paper-Scissor type stuff, then yeah you probably know what you're talking about and other ZSSs should take your words into consideration
Re: ph00t...he's a smart guy........and gahhhhh patient! very patient.
editz: in case I wasn't clear, my point was that your strat might go differently against a ROB who knows the matchup, so keep that in mind...that's all ^_^
Re: ph00t...he's a smart guy........and gahhhhh patient! very patient.
editz: in case I wasn't clear, my point was that your strat might go differently against a ROB who knows the matchup, so keep that in mind...that's all ^_^
soloSHADOWROB
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 299
Not according to M2K who dominates your region you guys dont lol.
True I havent played many good ZZS but FadedImage is good and the best in SoCal
Power Whip is easy to see coming because you can see ZZS winding up for it and I can PS it and punish since it has some lag.
Im not like every ROB player who lives by just spot dodge d-smash.
Its whatever though idk why I post any more Brawl is stupid hahahahaha
True I havent played many good ZZS but FadedImage is good and the best in SoCal
Power Whip is easy to see coming because you can see ZZS winding up for it and I can PS it and punish since it has some lag.
Im not like every ROB player who lives by just spot dodge d-smash.
Its whatever though idk why I post any more Brawl is stupid hahahahaha
You are oficially banned from the ZSS boards.
NeoZero
Smash Apprentice
You forgot one other point in his post... he clearly said ZZS. This is obviously the ZSS forums, not the ZZS forums.
Also, its true that the plasma whip has startup time, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to effectively power shield it every single time. Same thing goes for the laser : you CLEARLY see Rob lean his head back when he's about to uses it but that doesn't mean that it's going to get powershielded every bloody time. If that were the case, nobody would use it and ROB wouldn't be nearly as effective as he is when camping.
That's why you have mindgames. If you use the right mindgames, then you'll be able to hit or space properly. Sadly, no mindgame is perfect and sometimes you slip up and get hit.
Saying "It has some startup lag so I can powershield it and punish you lol." is fine and dandy, but it's still not that easily done, otherwise ZSS would be crap against everyone since it would take away one of her best tools and leave flying off the stage every single time. Saying that I can powershield the laser cuz it has some startup lag doesn't make it anyless effective then it already is. That being said, the plasma whip does work, and so does stuff like laser & gyro camping. Nothing will change that.
Also, its true that the plasma whip has startup time, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to effectively power shield it every single time. Same thing goes for the laser : you CLEARLY see Rob lean his head back when he's about to uses it but that doesn't mean that it's going to get powershielded every bloody time. If that were the case, nobody would use it and ROB wouldn't be nearly as effective as he is when camping.
That's why you have mindgames. If you use the right mindgames, then you'll be able to hit or space properly. Sadly, no mindgame is perfect and sometimes you slip up and get hit.
Saying "It has some startup lag so I can powershield it and punish you lol." is fine and dandy, but it's still not that easily done, otherwise ZSS would be crap against everyone since it would take away one of her best tools and leave flying off the stage every single time. Saying that I can powershield the laser cuz it has some startup lag doesn't make it anyless effective then it already is. That being said, the plasma whip does work, and so does stuff like laser & gyro camping. Nothing will change that.
toasty
Smash Hero
Snakeee
Smash Master
I don't expect side B to hit I expect it to pressure. And what is that about M2K did he comment on this match up? Even if he did, I doubt he knows it well.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
This. M2K is not the end all source of information on everything.
what she said.
Fair enough. Though I think the only thing you really could have done differently was been more intelligent with the suit pieces and been a bit more aware of timing and spacing of ZSS's moves. Might have helped you with recovering, and definitely would have helped in the outset on Brinstar, but you could have had me fooled with how you dealt with my approach, which is the only time when ROB can hope to win the fight.
Wow, stop talking about the East Coast. M2K is just the best. He doesn't dominate. And just because he's the best doesn't mean he's all knowing.
This. If someone can PS Plasma Whip, fine. I have a contingency plan for that. You're drastically oversimplifying ZSS's pressure game. Toasty put it best: patience. If you're patient with ROB, he can do nothing. ZSS has range on him, she manages his projectiles well, and she's built to mete out heavy punishment. ROB is simply more likely to be worn down than ZSS.
kuenzel
Smash Ace
You can FLIPSTOOL the tornado?? That's unbelievable! Thank you sir for this valuable peice of information.
...are we top tier yet?
Flamingo
Smash Lord
What do you mean by flipstool?
kuenzel
Smash Ace
ZSS's down-b allows her to flip. During the flip, ZSS can cancel it and perform a jump similar to a footstool jump, except it doesn't go as high and can be done on objects as well as people (like Snake's grenades!). Hence, FlipStool
I dont know either. Maybe its like a new AT. ZOMG WE CAN BEAT MK CAUSE THERES A ULTRA-BROKEN NEW TECHNIQUE CALLED FLIPSTOOL.
theyre gonna ban ZSS now cause of it. I heard it has the most priority in the game, does 32% damage AND has Snakes F-Smash power and it comes out as quick as her jab.
oh noes ZZS is gonna be banned =/
theyre gonna ban ZSS now cause of it. I heard it has the most priority in the game, does 32% damage AND has Snakes F-Smash power and it comes out as quick as her jab.
oh noes ZZS is gonna be banned =/
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
By me of course
FadedImage
Smash Journeyman
wait, so you have to be patient with large amounts of aggression? I don't understand the gameplan that everyone is suggesting here. You apply lots of pressure, but you have to be patient with your aggression?
You guys say Shadow is oversimplifying the match-up and start talking **** on his lack of forum savvy and ZSS knowledge, but seriously, I think you're guilty of the same crime by drastically underestimating ROB's abilities.
You compare powershielding ROB's lasers with powershielding Side-b, and they are drastically different things. Powershielding a laser results in NOTHING. You just stopped damage and are still forced to approach. Powershielding a side-b means you are now in range for a roll approach which you WILL NOT have time to punish. Now ROB is in your immediate vicinity and what options do you have? Jab? Run away where he will projectile spam you some more? Anything else will get d-tilted, d-smashed, or grabbed.
We obviously have quite a bit of dissent in the ROB topic, we can just skip it and come back to it later if you guys want.
NeoZero
Smash Apprentice
@Faded:
All I was saying is just because you can potentially powershield an attack doesn't make it any less useful then it is. I compared the plasma whip to the laser because the way I understood his message was something like : I can powershield it because it has a very noticeable windup animation. The laser has a similar sort of windup animation but is still a useful attack, despite having waving a huge neon sign saying "I AM GOING TO SHOOT MA LAZOR!".
And yes, I know our options are severly limited if our side-B gets powershielded. I just wanted to say that it's still a feasible tool in the matchup, despite the windup animation.
All I was saying is just because you can potentially powershield an attack doesn't make it any less useful then it is. I compared the plasma whip to the laser because the way I understood his message was something like : I can powershield it because it has a very noticeable windup animation. The laser has a similar sort of windup animation but is still a useful attack, despite having waving a huge neon sign saying "I AM GOING TO SHOOT MA LAZOR!".
And yes, I know our options are severly limited if our side-B gets powershielded. I just wanted to say that it's still a feasible tool in the matchup, despite the windup animation.
Aggression =/= offensiveness. Aggression means keep your ranged pressure up constantly and don't let up. Jab and tilt if he gets too close. Even when you're retreating, use pivot Plasma Whips and retreating paralyzers to make sure he doesn't have time to think about projectiles.
This is what I've always mean by aggressive, and it's what I'll always mean. Keep it in mind.
FadedImage
Smash Journeyman
oh, mah bad. I guess I play like that all the time. Constant pressure with spacing tools is the name of the game for me with ZSS, lol. I don't really see another way to play ZSS that isn't "aggressive". So when I hear aggressive, I assume it meant even more aggressive, like forcing aerial approaches and dash attacks, etc.
Adapt
Smash Lord
ROB is my secondary along with Zelda, I know what he's capable of. I may not use ROB to the same degree as I use ZSS. I still see his weakness as being in the air. He has huge blind spots below him because his dair has far too much starting lag. Nair can be used to help cover them, but nair is also incredibly easy to see coming.
On the ground he just doesn't has as many options at medium range as ZSS. Fine he can PS side-B, but it's ending lag is minimal so it doesn't really gain him anything because any followup he has is either out of range or has enough startup lag to be shielded in return. Same with d-smash (as long as you don't followup with another d-smash/side-B.
Once he gets close he is dangerous. He has a mock chaingrab with dtilt (trip) out of a grab release, but as long as you don't trip you can jump away. All his tilts and smashes are rather quick and dangerous.
Just keep him in range but not too close and snipe at him to get him in the air. Then you can followup and deal damage in the air.
On the ground he just doesn't has as many options at medium range as ZSS. Fine he can PS side-B, but it's ending lag is minimal so it doesn't really gain him anything because any followup he has is either out of range or has enough startup lag to be shielded in return. Same with d-smash (as long as you don't followup with another d-smash/side-B.
Once he gets close he is dangerous. He has a mock chaingrab with dtilt (trip) out of a grab release, but as long as you don't trip you can jump away. All his tilts and smashes are rather quick and dangerous.
Just keep him in range but not too close and snipe at him to get him in the air. Then you can followup and deal damage in the air.
One thing I think should be noted is that camping doesn't necessarily mean the be-all end-all of a match-up. The ability to punish and maintain punishment is also important. ROB can outcamp ZSS, sure, but he only has a few options when it comes to real punishment and table-turning. ZSS beats him in those departments, and since her approach is by no means shut down completely by ROB, she can achieve and very easily maintain extended punishment. This is why ZSS beats him.
NinjaLink
Smash Master
Should i do this matchup with Snakeee to put more input on this matchup? I rather analyze it for myself.
James Sparrow
Smash Master
I played Raffi-X on AiB ladder on wifi a few days ago, (he's ranked in top 30 or something) and after beating him he said that ZSS was Rob's biggest counter.
TheRockSays
Smash Journeyman
we still with the ROB match up jesus christ next!
GwJ
Smash Hero
I wouldn't say she's his biggest counter, but definitely significant. If I could give a quick guess, I'd call it 65-35.
kuenzel
Smash Ace
Sounds like some good old fashioned johns to me...
canthandletheSpeculosity
Smash Journeyman
can we go wario or marth now?
James Sparrow
Smash Master
Wario plz.
Snakeee
Smash Master
We should settle the more commonly used characters first. I say Metaknight.
Btw, I take back my standpoint on the Snake match up. I think it's at least even for ZSS now.
Btw, I take back my standpoint on the Snake match up. I think it's at least even for ZSS now.
umm yeaa.
but snakes ftilt just makes me want to pause the game. lol. you can die at 80% if you get hit with it. i suggest alot of jabs, and idk if its just me or im playing a noob snake but when i grab and hit him(A) and dont throw him anywhere i almost always do a effective jab combo afterwards.
idk how you call that.
NeoZero
Smash Apprentice
Grab release combos?