Rate And Discuss Their Chances: Closed

[Starphoenix]

Want: 3.0
Likelihood: 2.5

I'd say she is about fifty/fifty, but it really depends upon whether my prediction comes true or not.

I'm going to talk about my "theory" for a minute. This isn't going to be popular, but if I cared about that I wouldn't support half of the characters I do.

My theory is that Dark Samus has a very good chance if Sakurai decides he does not want to make Ridley playable. I don't believe for a second that the Nintendo Power article, where Sakurai was asked about Ridley, is what people think it is. It reads as somebody who is laughing off a suggestion rather than discussing technical feasibility, and after seeing his appearance in Brawl it is no wonder why he would think that. To add to this it a little known fact that Metroid is not exactly the high profile series in Japan. Not to say it isn't popular, but it is not what it is here in the West and generally lags behind other Nintendo series. This isn't to lay out a case about why Ridley shouldn't be in, I think he should, but just pointing out how he could miss the boat.

Now, time to tie into my theory. What I think could happen is that Sakurai observes a very legitimate demand for another Metroid character coming from the West, despite having two characters already (Zero Suit Samus counts as a separate character). After considering Ridley for a time he is ultimately going to pass over him, again, due to the "challenge" of balancing him [crap reasoning, but whatever]. Instead he will look through the series for another character, if any, he can use. He'll look at the semi-latest game in the Prime series and find Dark Samus. Seeing her as an easier character to implement Sakurai and Namco will proceed with development.

Months later, or whenever Dark Samus is revealed, there will be immense backlash across various Super Smash Bros forums, as well as a growing fear of Ridley not making it onto the roster. Especially if she is even remotely "clone-y."

Finally, all of the horror of the Ridley community will be culminated when Sakurai reveals the Geothermal Power Plant stage, and just like the stage in Dead or Alive Dimensions, Ridley is a background hazard. All hell will break loose and will probably be the anti equivalent to Sonic's Brawl reveal. Super Smash Bros 4 will be deemed a joke by angry fans and will proceed in turning their seething anger onto the "less important semi clone POS". It will become one of those days that live in cyber infamy. For those without any vested interest, it'll probably be hilarious, but for everyone else not as much. Either that or he just doesn't show up at all, in which case there is still resentment.

Or both of them get in and everyone is happy. Or Ridley alone makes it in and what everyone expects happens.

 

[deuxhero]

^
Tecmo Koei
Namco Bandai product

Huh?

 

[Starphoenix]

^
Tecmo Koei
Namco Bandai product

Huh?

Sorry, for some reason I keep thinking Tecmo is a subsidiary of Namco. Must be the "cmo". Either way, I can still see a "Brinstar Depths" happening, or nothing at all. My gut feeling for a long time.

 

[DarkSouls]

Well, technically Dark Samus is a literal clone of Samus, contraining her DNA. A phazon clone

Clones do not work like that, unless you believe that a kid is a clone of his parents.

Clones are genetically identical.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Clones do not work like that, unless you believe that a kid is a clone of his parents.

Clones are genetically identical.

It's Samus' exact DNA, it's not the same thing as a parent passing DNA to a child

 

[DarkSouls]

It's Samus' exact DNA, it's not the same thing as a parent passing DNA to a child

First of all, that is exactly what happens when a parent passes DNA. The DNA comes from the parent's cells, which are the parents' "exact" DNA. It's not all of the parents' DNA, obviously, but it is the parents' DNA.

Secon, clones are genetically identical. That's why they're called clones. Do you think Metroid Prime's genetic material just magically disappeared? "Contains traces of Samus DNA" is not the same as "genetically identical to Samus.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

First of all, that is exactly what happens when a parent passes DNA. The DNA comes from the parent's cells, which are the parents' "exact" DNA. It's not all of the parents' DNA, obviously, but it is the parents' DNA.

Secon, clones are genetically identical. That's why they're called clones. Do you think Metroid Prime's genetic material just magically disappeared? "Contains traces of Samus DNA" is not the same as "genetically identical to Samus.

It's a phazon clone hybrid of Samus and Metroid Prime

 

[DarkSouls]

It's a phazon clone hybrid of Samus and Metroid Prime

There you go using that word again.

Clones do not work that way. Learn your genetic nomenclature. The very phrase "clone hybrid of Samus and Metroid Prime" is a paradox.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Ever watch Alien Resurrection?

The alien/ Ripley hybrid is a friggin' clone.

It's the same thing here.

Mewtwo is a clone of Mew and it has human DNA in it

 

[DarkSouls]

Ever watch Alien Resurrection?

The alien/ Ripley hybrid is a friggin' clone.

It's the same thing here.

Mewtwo is a clone of Mew and it has human DNA in it

I don't get what you're trying to prove with those examples; that science fiction writers have no idea how genetics work?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't get what you're trying to prove with those examples; that science fiction writers have no idea how genetics work?

Your trying to use real life examples, saying science fiction isn't how cloning works, to prove a creature in a science fiction BASED on one of those examples isn't a clone?

Now who is using paradox's?

 

[DarkSouls]

Your trying to use real life examples, saying science fiction isn't how cloning works, to prove a creature in a science fiction BASED on one of those examples isn't a clone?

Because we're talking about it from an outside context?

You are using a definition of clone based on a terrible Alien sequel and a terrible Pokemon movie to prove Dark Samus is a clone, and your basis for that is "Well, Metroid is kinda like Alien!"

That's like stating that a caterpillar "evolves" into a butterfly because your Caterpie became a Butterfree.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Because we're talking about it from an outside context?

You are using a definition of clone based on a terrible Alien sequel and a terrible Pokemon movie to prove Dark Samus is a clone, and your basis for that is "Well, Metroid is kinda like Alien!"

That's like stating that a caterpillar "evolves" into a butterfly because your Caterpie became a Butterfree.

You're trying too hard. You lost this the second you tried to say science fiction's loose definition of clones doesn't apply to the Metroid series.

I hate to break it to you, but Metroid doesn't follow real life science. I know it's kind of hard to believe.

 

[Opossum]

...So how about that Dark Samus?

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, hey, hey, both (Dark and Psycho) of you knock it off. I don't want this turning into a flame war and me having to discount both of your votes.

Now I'll go back to work.

 

[DarkSouls]

Posted here because I didn't see the preview button. Alright, I'll take it to PMs.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Edit: I'll just edit this out since he did

 

[jigglover]

Wow. This is why I love this website. Anywho... Mewtwo actually has minimal Mew DNA in it - just for future reference - and I'm pretty sure it's got a bare minimum of human DNA in it too. It's basically chemically generated DNA morphed into a form, if that helps with anything (I don't think it does but anyway.)

 

[assosiaan2014]

Dark Samus and Samus Aran can be made as different as you want them to be. Dark Samus is based off of Phazon, and DS's moves as suggested by Venus of the Desert Bloom are far from similar compared to SA's move set. Dark Samus can be engineered as a completely different character from Samus. And in my opinion, SSB4 could use a new Metroid character. They could be as different as Ike was from Marth in Brawl. People who disagree with this (in my opinion) need to play through the Metroid games and they will realize how different they can be.

 

[Claire Diviner]

So we're doing Dark Samus, the freak clone of Samus Aran? Very well, let's see.

As for want, I really don't care for Dark Samus, so I'll give it a 3.0, since that's directly in the middle for the sake of indifference.

As for the likelihood, I'll say about a 2.0. The reason I say this is because Dark Samus hasn't made as much of an impact in the Metroid series as Ridley and Mother Brain. Also, there's a good chance they would just end up making Dark Samus an alternate costume for Samus instead of a separate character. Now, with that said, the reason I don't rate its likeliness lower than a 2.0 is because contrary to what some may think, Dark Samus, if made playable, will be anything but a Samus clone in playstyle; they can draw inspiration from all of the Metroid Prime series games it appears in to create a moveset unique to it, thus separating it from Samus, not to mention Samus and Dark Samus' combat styles are different from one another, so to give even a Luigification moveset to Dark Samus for Smash 4 only shows that the developers were just plain lazy. Also, even though Dark Samus didn't make as huge an impact in the Metroid series as other antagonists, it is still the main antagonist of Metroid Prime (save for Hunters), so that still warrants enough significance to add it into the roster.

 

[assosiaan2014]

....contrary to what some may think, Dark Samus, if made playable, will be anything but a Samus clone in playstyle; they can draw inspiration from all of the Metroid Prime series games she appears in to create a moveset unique to it, thus separating it from Samus, not to mention Samus and Dark Samus' combat styles are different from one another, so to give even a Luigification moveset to Dark Samus fro Smash 4 only shows that the developers were just plain lazy.

Thank you for agreeing with the many people that believe that Dark Samus can be made to not be a Samus clone. Kudos to you!

 

[kisamefishfries]

Well Dark Samus sounds more like a texture/alt costum to me. But then again I didn't really play the games too much I was under the impression they had the same skills. Assuming she would be a clone or even clone like.
want: 0
Likelihood: 1.5

Whoops, forgot my nominations
Nominations:
Lloyd Irving x3
Paper Mario x2

 

[FlareHabanero]

Dark Samus seems to be a pretty lame choice of character to be in Super Smash Bros. At best it will be an alternate costume for Samus, and at worst it will be a clone of Samus shoveled in at the last second of development. Oh and dark archtype characters are a sign of lazy writing, but that's a different topic.

Want- 1.12
Likelihood- 1.27 (at best)

For Muddy Mole, I predict a 3.24.

Due to winning, my nominations are Starfy x2, Palutena x2, Zoroark x2, Issac x2, and Little Mac x2.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Dark Samus:
Want: 2
Likelihood : 2.4

I dunno. Dark Samus has pretty decent chances, but, other Metroid characters do have bigger chances to appear.

Nominations :
Samurai Goroh x2
Black Shadow x3

 

[MelMoe]

Nominations

Chibi-Robo
Isaac
Lip
Yoshimitsu
Tingle

Voting & Discussing

Dark Samus

Personal Bias: 4.99
Likelihood: 2.67

Dark Samus may appear as just a cheap imitation of Samus, but she is not. As already mentioned, Dark Samus's abilities are her own & not a complete rip-off of Samus's. She can levitate, exhaust & control the toxic substance; Phazon, become transparent, produce her own clones, disintegrate & reform via Phazon particles, move at lightning speeds using her enhanced Morph Ball, reflect non-energy attacks, create Phazon implosions, & manipulate others. As a fighter, she's a speedy, mid or light-weight character that can rack up damage using her Phazon abilities. She is letal at both close & long range. Metroid is one of the underrepresented franchises in Smash, along with Donkey Kong. It could use a 4th character. Ridley, of course, should come first. Kirby & Pokemon received more than one newcomer in Brawl, it is completely possible for others as well. The Metroid series less popularity in Japan could hurt the Metroid franchise as a whole. It is only likely for her to be a clone if Dark Samus is late in development.

Dark Samus (or Metroid Prime) is a heavily Phazon-mutated Metroid. Metroids are known to evolve rapidly according to the environment. Metroid Prime original form is a large, black arachnid-type creature with impenetrable armor; only the beam weapons could harm it. Metroid Prime has the ability to absorb weapon technology & fuse it to it's genetic make-up. The black arachnid was merely Metroid Prime's shell & not it's true form. After it was defeated it attempted to absorb Samus, but instead, absorb the Phazon suit & some of Samus's DNA. It is now a she. With her new shell, Dark Samus utilized the Phazon suit's ability to wield Phazon as a weapon. She gains a lust for power & travels the universe in search of more Phazon. She evolves every time she absorbs Phazon becoming a much larger threat to everything in her way.

In regards to the trophy debate, King K. Rool's trophy states that Kaptain K. Rool is his brother & not an alter ego. Trophy descriptions aren't reliable.

Also all because the Prime series is over, it doesn't mean that Dark Samus is; she can always come back. Afterall Samus never defeated her core in Prime 3; she can gain control of a new shell.

Spoiler

Maybe even a ship.

Prediction

Muddy Mole: 1.75

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anthony Higgs should make it, not Dark Samus. Never saw the appeal of a character that likely at best would be a Luigified-Samus, and wouldn't likely re-appear in Metroid ever again.

As MANthony would say: YOU GOT NO STYLE!

Remember him? That was him talking about Ridley. Just imagine what he'd have to say about Dark Samus.

 

[deuxhero]

Predict 2 for Muddy Mole.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Dark Samus has decent chances for representing the Metroid Prime spinoffs and being Samus's second nemesis. She may be a biological clone, but could have many differences from Samus. Though, one problrm is that I'd highly doubt that thete would be another Metroid game involving here or another Metroid Prime games.
Want: 2.4 Likeliness: 1:2

Nominations: 5x Shulk

 

[Deleted member]

Dark Samus

Dark Samus does meet all four criteria. She was a popular request pre-Brawl, which although significantly diminished, still exist as evident of Venus's vocal support thread. I also don't see how she would be a clone as she fights so differently that making a clone would make little sense. She can also fit in more easily than Ridley and contribute to balancing more easily than Ridley.

However, Dark Samus faces the obstacle of does Sakurai agree that she can be unique? It can be argued that King K. Rool being brothers is misinformation as well and Sakurai may not see it as a problem, but Sakurai could always make an unique move set out of one game for him. Dark Samus is much worse off as she is considered similar to Samus according to Sakurai and Sakurai wants to avoid similar characters (and by similar, I don't just mean clone move set, I mean Sakurai may consider her too similar to Samus to stand out). However, if Sakurai has played Metroid Prime 2 or 3 enough to where he sees Dark Samus's ability and realize that she isn't similar to Samus, then she is up for consideration, if only for one last time.

But even if she does pass by what Sakurai sees in the criteria she has another obstacle to worry about; Ridley and if Metroid will get a third rep. Ridley is a better choice in every way and is one of the most deserving characters to be in Smash. It might be difficult for Sakurai to fit Ridley in and the time it will take to add Ridley in will probably be larger than that of almost any other Nintendo newcomer added, but I would say that the issue of fitting in is less problematic than finding out about how unique Dark Samus is because Sakurai has been confronted with adding Ridley in and as such, pretty much had to seriously consider making him playable, whereas it is very possible that Dark Samus may not even be on Sakurai's mind to be playable. And I seriously doubt Metroid is getting a third rep (thought I wouldn't object to Ridley and Dark Samus being the two newcomers). The only real chance I see for Dark Samus is if Ridley is overlooked and Sakurai feels the series merits a newcomer, basically a somewhat similar situation to Starphoenix (and if the anti-Sonic reveal occurs, a reason for me to move my Mach Rider support topic and possibly the 6th gen mascot support topic (if revealed) to a temporary forum). However, if no Ridley occurs, I see no new Metroid rep as more likely.

So I feel as her chances are low. Her best shot was in Brawl and now that she missed it, she will have a much harder time getting in this game. I give her a likelihood score of 1. And no, this isn't the lowest I can give her. I could give her down to a 0, but I feel I could be wrong about her and there are characters mentioned on this forum that warrants the absolute bottomless pit score.

I nominate Mega Man, Krystal, Toad, Ghirahim, and Mii.

I am extending today until sometimes tomorrow morning or afternoon. I have to go to sleep now and get to work early in the morning and I don't want to cut this day shorter than need be.

 

[Phaazoid]

OK

Here's the thing about Dark Samus
I love the character
Largest protagonist from the Prime series. She is actually the Omega Metroid from Prime one, fused to your phaazon suit in a planetary explosion. that's pretty badass

second, there is NO WAY DARK SAMUS COULD BE A SAMUS CLONE -.- Dark samus does not have a morph ball, screw attack, or missiles. Her charge beam is also completely different, like the dark beam from prime two echos. There go all of her special moves. And I would assume she would be lighter and floatier than samus. And she has plently of unique phaazon attacks that could be her own special moves, or she could incorporate into grabs or normal attacks

So dark samus is pretty cool

HOWEVER
Ridley is better in almost every aspect, and I fear we won't get both. So just for the fact that I think Dark samus would edge out Ridley, I give her a 0 in want. If it were not for that fact, I'd probably give her a 4.

As for probability, I think Ridley is more popular overall, is a more signature metroid villain in general, and has appeared in far more games, so unless he's a boss again, he has 99% chance to edge out dark samus IMO, I'll give her a 1.5

Really, I just love anything metroid. I'd be ecstatic if every hunter from prime three and prime hunters got in, as well as ridley, meta ridley, and omega ridley, dark samus, and every variant of metroid. But that would be super smash bros metroid, I guess, lol.


VOTES
Issac (golden sun)
Ray MK
Shy Guy
Krystal
Dark Knight (FE)

 

[Deleted member]

A great ball of fire raged the sky in the night as Dark Samus exercised her flexibility and deadly marksman. Hundreds of crowd members were scroaching ashes after this even was done, an event never fulfilled in this stadium before. After essentially being a nightmare, Dark Samus left collectively as if nothing had happened. Little did she know was that she scored pretty weak; a 1.91 in likelihood and a 2.28 in want; neither of which Dark Samus supporters liked.

The winner of that faithful day was the only one spared from the disaster of the fire when the fire came through it's path, which was Habanero. Again, he got five nominations.

Someone noticed a mole digged into the stadium. People asked "who was this guy?" and he immediately popped up. The surviving cast perked their eyes into him and when they realize he was next, everyone decided to borrow a paper or pencil and began.

Day Six has began! It will last until sometimes tomorrow morning. You may vote for Muddy Mole today and predict Palutena's score!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Muddy Mole gets a 2.5 in my book. I've never been familiar with that character, so I'm not expecting much from him.

Day 6 Nominations
1: Rosalina
2: Zoroark
3: Bowser Jr.
4: Mewtwo
5: Black Shadow

 

[Deleted member]

I give Muddy Mole a 2.5 in want and predict 4.43 for Palutena.

Nominate Mega Man, Ghirahim, Roy, Toad, and Krystal.

 

[DakotaBonez]

I love the stories ya make for the characters entering discussion.

I give Muddy Mole a 3.5 for want
and a 2.2 for likelihood.
Predicting Palutena gets a 0.3

Mole Mania was a really fun game and Muddy Mole was a decent character. What else needs to be said?

Nominations

Chibi-Robo x5

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Muddy gets a 2.5 for want and a 1.9 in likelihood mostly for being the only popular and reasonable Game Boy rep.

Nominations:
5x Shulk

 

[Deleted member]

@DakotaBonez: We're predicting the score Palutena gets tomorrow, not voting on likely she is. Or was that for Muddy Mole and you just made a typo?

 

[Opossum]

Well, time to make it count...

I encourage all to read this.

He's a character everyone will dig.

He hasn't been seen in 15 years.

He's defeated a Kangaroo, the Sun, a 100-ton Weight, a Giant Hedgehog, a Plumber, two Sumo Bros, a Snowman, and an Evil Farmer.

He's Muddy Mole.

Background

Now, Muddy Mole, for those of you who don't know, comes from a charming little Game Boy game called Mole Mania. Mole Mania was basically a Puzzle-Adventure Game where Muddy threw iron balls at gates to traverse the land looking for his family members, who were stolen by the evil farmer, Jinbe.

Now, Mole Mania got pretty good reviews, but it faded into obscurity once Pokemon came out and dominated the Game Boy market. Since then, Muddy Mole has yet to make any other game appearances.

Why Muddy Fits the Bill as a Smash Character:

Now, ever since Melee, Sakurai has added retro characters that people would either remember from the good ol' days, or scratch their heads at, going, "Who is this?"

In Melee, he added the Ice Climbers, and in Brawl, he added Pit (at the time he was retro, he's obviously not anymore due to Uprising.).

Now, Sakurai has stated in an interview (still trying to locate this one...) that character inclusion must follow 4 basic guidelines...

1. The character's inclusion must make people want to play the game.

2. The character must be unique.

3. The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.

4. They must contribute to the game balance

I'm just keeping this here for future reference. Now, Muddy Mole has an ability in Mole Mania that makes him a force to be reckoned with: digging.

This can easily translate well into Smash, which I'll get to later on. No other character can do this, so it is unique.

This may also make people want to play the game, as the new mechanic is bound to have fans.

One interesting fact about Muddy Mole is that he was made by Shigeru Miyamoto, i.e., the same man who made Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, Fox McCloud, and Captain Olimar. I'd say he fits into the style fine.

For the game balance thing, you can easily make Muddy powerful without being overpowered, but I guess Number 4 is the responsibility of the production team.

Now, you may ask as to why Muddy over other retro characters. Well, in Melee, Sakurai dismissed some retro characters: Excite Biker, Balloon Fighter, Bubbles from Clu Clu Land, Sukapon, and Urban Champion, for various reasons ("Unable" to find a way for him to fight on a bike or jump, Wonders what he'll do if his balloons are popped, Couldn't figure out a way for her to fight, too complex, and "boring", per say, respectively.) Many, if not all, of these characters were more popular than the Ice Climbers on the Melee poll. However, Sakurai chose them because he saw them as original due to their Tag-Team style. For this reason, Muddy could be in due to his "unique" style.

Now, many detractors of Muddy say that the retro spot is exclusive for one or two characters per game. This is usually followed by "Why Muddy over other Retros? I think *so and so* is more likely!"

Now, I'm of the belief that it isn't that exclusive, and more can be added if so desired, but under the premise of "one only," I would still choose Muddy. Why, exactly? I'll go through the dilemmas that other retros face, and in the end show why Muddy may top them in Sakurai's eyes. Keep in mind that I would like to see many of these characters more, and these are just my reasons as to why I think Muddy is more likely. This is in no way meant to bash the other characters or their support base. :D

[collapse=Retro Debates]

Vs Little Mac

Simply put, with the new game, he's no longer retro, and therefore not really a threat to Muddy. I only put him here for those who believe he still counts. They could easily coexist even under the premise that we only get one retro.



Vs Sheriff

I've seen this fella come up a few times. Many say that his claim to fame is that he's Nintendo's first character. Now, I've yet to find one that came before him, but that's not what breaks him as a choice. It's more of a question of originality, as they need to add something to the game. This may be seen as a problem, seeing as all you did in the game was walk slowly and shoot. I mean, they could go for a Cowboy inspired moveset with a lasso, gun, spurs, etc., but why would you go for a generic cowboy when Nintendo has a cowboy that can offer much more in Dillon's Rolling Western? Muddy at the very least has other things to offer.


Vs Prince of Sable

Prince of Sable is an interesting case. For one, he has low popularity in the US at first, but then much larger support came for him after the false "Universe Leak." The main thing holding back Sable is the fact that he's an obscure Japan-only character. Sakurai is very wary about adding Japanese only characters. The Fire Emblem characters almost didn't make it to the American Melee...even after that, the only Japanese only character added was Lucas, from a series that in itself wasn't Japanese only. For the Frog the Bell Tolls is a one-game series that, while a cult classic, is largely unknown and exclusive to Japan.


Vs Lip

Now, I'll start by saying that Lip is a choice that I like. That being said, I do not find her likely. The reasoning behind this is that, well, she is also kind of Japanese only, but in an arguably worse case than Sable. Her game was released in the US, but she wasn't. Yep, they removed all traces of Lip and the other fairies out of Panel de Pon and renamed it Pokemon Puzzle League or Tetris Attack (TBH I don't remember which...). For this reason, I find her unlikely. And there's the fact that even Sakurai mentioned her obscurity...


Vs Mach Rider

Mach Rider offers a bit of competition to Muddy, no doubt. Sakurai stated that he was his favorite character for "Smash 2" (this was pre-Melee). We managed to get his theme in Melee, and a trophy, but nothing else. In Brawl, the song was carried over and his trophy was ditched. What happened to Mach Rider? One can only guess. Many theorize that he was the 20th character Sakurai was going to add, before he decided on the six clones instead. Many also guess that due to his similarities to Falcon, he was originally going to be the Falcon clone before Sakurai realized Ganondorf's popularity. My only guess is that since Sakurai never spoke of him again, he only saw him feasible off the bike as a clone of Falcon. On the bike, Excite Biker was decided against for being unable to jump, or something similar. I assume he thought the same of Mach Rider.


Vs Takamaru

He is definitely Muddy's biggest hurdle. Takamaru's got many things going for him. Amazing moveset potential, popularity...except that he is also currently from a Japanese only game. Now, I know that Sakurai stated that if Takamaru ever gets another game, he'll likely get in Smash, but that's the problem...

You see, in Samurai Warriors 3, they remade his game to fit the gameplay style of the game, iirc. I'm not sure if a remake counts in Sakurai's eyes. He also has a minigame in NintendoLand...where he doesn't appear. Then there was a minor cameo in Captain Rainbow! He didn't really do anything. I believe Sakurai meant another game of his own. In this case, it has yet to happen. That being said, I still find him Muddy's biggest competition.



In the Unlikely Case of Version Exclusives:

In this case, I find that if retros are version exclusive, Muddy is a lock for the 3DS. I would also say that Takamaru would be the best bet for the Wii U. It would then be likely that you could transfer those characters to the other version. This would be a win win for the Muddy and Takamaru fans, but its chance of happening is rather slim.

[/collapse]

From the Muddy Mole Support Group

Overall, he'd be a great character to fit the bill of a retro, and also unique in that he "controls the stage" between his underground maneuverability a use of traps based on his game.

I'd go as far as to say a 3.2 in likelihood.
Of course, I'd say a 5.0 in Want

Interestingly enough, his game came out on the American 3DS Virtual Console today. What timing! Perhaps it will work in his favor and get him more supporters? Who knows.

For Palutena, I predict a 3.4

For nominations, I'll put in x5 for Starfy.

 

[Claire Diviner]

For Muddy Mole, my want is at 3.0; I don't know him to really want him or not. All I know is that he's a retro character. With that said, I give his likelihood a decent 3.0, because he's a retro character, and seeing as Game & Watch and R.O.B. were made playable to represent retro characters (though, in R.O.B.'s case, an accessory), who is to say they won't do the same for Muddy Mole, if they don't get the Duck Hunt Dog, or Balloon Fighter in before him? Also, didn't Sakurai acknowledge Muddy Mole's existence at one point? I forgot if he did, but assuming that was the case, it would indeed help his chances, if only by a little bit.

I nominate Rosalina x5

 

[DakotaBonez]

@DakotaBonez: We're predicting the score Palutena gets tomorrow, not voting on likely she is. Or was that for Muddy Mole and you just made a typo?

Nah I predicted Palutena and Scored Muddy Mole.
I'll add the word "Predict" before Palutena.

 

[BKupa666]

Want: 3
Likelihood: 1.5

It's difficult to rate retro reps, since aside from the rare fan favorite ones, (allegedly) like Takamaru, it's a toss-up as to which characters fill those slots. That said, after that one interview, Sakurai is at least -aware- of Mole Mania's existence, so it wouldn't surprise me for Muddy Mole to receive some consideration, if he's not outright included to begin with.

I do think he, like the Duck Hunt Dog, would bring more to the table than another swordsman, who would be using swipes and stabs for their main moveset, regardless of whatever 'potential' they may have. It would be great to see a pitfall-based moveset, allowing him to tunnel under the stage to build a large burying trap. But honestly, potential means nothing, so his inclusion is really dependent on how Sakurai views him vs. his competition, as well as how many retro characters are set to become playable. Personally, I think he'll be glossed over, but I'd be happy if proven wrong.

Palutena will get a higher score than she deserves a 4.5 in likelihood.