Recovery Tier List (Updated 1-5-07)

[B-Will]

Recovery Tier List (Updated 1-5-07)​

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Green arrow indicates a move up from the previous tier list. Red arrow indicates a move down from the previous tier list. The numbers on the right indicate the character's rank on the previous list.


Top Tier
--1. Jigglypuff
--2. Mewtwo
--3. Samus

Upper Tier

4. Peach (6)
--5. Pichu

6. Pikachu (4)

High Tier

7. Ice Climbers (9)

8. Kirby (10)

9. Fox (7)

10. Link (8)

Middle Tier
--11. Sheik
--12. Young Link
--13. Zelda
--14. Ganon
--15. Yoshi

Low Tier
--16. Marth

17. Ness (21)
--18. Donkey Kong
--19. Game and Watch
--20. Luigi
--21. Bowser

Bottom Tier
--22. Mario
--23. Falco
--24. Captain Falcon
--25. Doctor Mario
--26. Roy

 

[B-Will]

Explanations for the tier list.

I have cleared this space up for explanations for characater placements because it was requested.

First of all, this tier list, at first, was based on just the distance and versatility of a character's recovery. However, I think this list has evolved into one that is more realisitc. That means that things like character DI, predictablitiy, and ledge teching all play a role in the new list.

Character DI: There was confusion as what I meant by this. All it means is that the floatier you are, the more likely you are going to be able to recover from a hit, assuming you don't get star KO'd. An easy example, game and watch. People complain about his lack of horizontal recovery and while this is very true, a lot of times he doesn't need it. Imagine him getting hit by a fsmash of marth. With proper DI, he will be hit in a vertical trajectory moreso than the other characters and he can merely float back to the stage, then use his recovery. Fastfallers don't have this luxury. To illustrate that, imagine falco with peach's parasol. When it comes down for it, peach is known for it which makes her di so good. But if falco possessed it, it still wouldn't make his recovery great simply because he isn't able to utilize it at a high altitude because of how fast he falls.

Predictability: There is a reason why people think that ganon's recovery is far from godly. Distance wise, yes it sure is. However, what good is it to have it when you are going to continually be knocked off the stage? While you can mindgame with it and ledgetech, it doesn't negate the fact that it lacks versatility.

Anyways, explanations of each character will come later.

 

[SuperRad]

doesnt zelda have a huge Up-B range?

maybe im confused.

 

[B-Will]

doesnt zelda have a huge Up-B range?

maybe im confused.

Zelda has a rediculous up-b range. However, her landing lag has got to be one of the worst, if not, the worst in the game. There IS a reason why top players don't transform to zelda from shiek to make it back to the edge. Her recovery is too easy to predict, laggy, and be knocked back to the edge. Players don't bother even using it most of the time.

 

[forward]

I would put Pika in the top with mewtwo and jiggs, he can almost always make it back, and he has a fair amount of mix up on where to go with his up b. I would probably also put fox in the top, he has so many options it's kinda stupid, and where do you get that he is easy to ledge guard?

 

[Sm00th_Crim1nal]

Jiggs and Samus are girls.

 

[McRustyJr]

zelda recovery is not the worst -_-. the landing lag isnt even as bad as u make it sound to be.

 

[B-Will]

zelda recovery is not the worst -_-. the landing lag isnt even as bad as u make it sound to be.

I never said it was the worst. I said that the lower and bottom tiers are IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER. I'd probably place at least doc and CF below zelda without putting much thought into it but dunno. I wasn't basing her placement solely on landing lag. Her ability to DI her up b well while airborne is almost nonexistant, thus making her recovery predictable as well.

I would put Pika in the top with mewtwo and jiggs, he can almost always make it back, and he has a fair amount of mix up on where to go with his up b. I would probably also put fox in the top, he has so many options it's kinda stupid, and where do you get that he is easy to ledge guard?

You may very well be right, I may be underestimating pika's recovery...but higher than peach and samus? Maybe, maybe not.

Same with fox, I know that I have a hard time edgeguarding your fox... or any decent fox for that matter if he knows what he is doing, but I definitely wouldn't put him as high as you did. I'll probably move him up a little though.

 

[Echoist]

I belive that DK's recovery is much better than Bowser's.

 

[Eaode]

Jiggs and Samus are girls.

And Kirby's a guy.

Oh and Pika's landing lag is remarkably reduced if you dont drive yourself into the ground with up B i.e. a good pika can finish up B right above the ground as opposed to on it, to cancel lag.

 

[B-Will]

And Kirby's a guy.

Oh and Pika's landing lag is remarkably reduced if you dont drive yourself into the ground with up B i.e. a good pika can finish up B right above the ground as opposed to on it, to cancel lag.

I forgot about that. I'll consider pika's recovery to be higher in the tier list but I'd like to see other people's input about it...

I belive that DK's recovery is much better than Bowser's.

...
And for the last time, the bottom two tiers are IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER right now. I think I am going to put that in bold red like that in the original post. I do agree that DK's recovery is better, but for the time being until we establish the first 15's I'm not going to work on the second half.

 

[ChozenOne]

First off... Zelda should be higher due to the fact that you can aim for the ledge, and eliminate some of the lag... and if you've seen some of Capt. Jack's games he does transform to Zelda, hit the ledge, then transform into sheik on the ledge...

Secondly... Shiek's recovery can ledge-hog, but it has very little distance. At the very least put marth in front of her with gannon. Even though Gannon can be ledge-guarded easily, his recovery is still rediculous.

Third off... The IC's are in the same boat as Gannon... they have insane recovery, but they can be easily edgeguarded... Kind of.

Forthly... Fox's recovery is rediculous. Any character that can waste their jumps and still come back from the bottom of FD is not Mid Tier Material.

And Finally... Falco+Doc have the worth recovery in the game no matter how you look at it. End of Story... Worst being Doc, Second Worst being Falco. Doc's lack of better UpB, and his weight make his recovery horrendous, and Falco's weight, plus his UpB's range is no help either...

ChozenOne Out.

 

[Samochan]

Mister Gaw has insane vertical recovery that enables for him to recover from almost anywhere, even from the bottom of FD. Trying to Kirbycide him on FoD is kinda suicide for Kirby, since GW can still make it back to the ledge, whereas Kirby can't. And GW can still nair him out of his recovery. >.> A lot better recovery than Marth or Yoshi have. Edgehogging GW is very tough, since you have to have very precise timing not to get hit by his up B or since he pounces up, the range he grabs the ledge is quite big too. He's pretty tough to edgeguard too, since his up B has great priority and is very fast. And I quote Chozenone for this:

Forthly... Fox's recovery is rediculous. Any character that can waste their jumps and still come back from the bottom of FD is not Mid Tier Material.

GW can too, so yeah, at least better than Yoshi and Marth. :3 I hope this post helps you to determine his place on the recovery tier list, or at least you consider what I had to say.

Edit: Peach should be top tier since she's very tough to spike (unless you're Fox) given her Parasol's ultimate priority and it's fast as heck too. Unless the Peach player is quite incompetent or somewhat slow, Peach will never get spiked by dairs, imo. Plus she can easily DI too high for anyone to touch her.

 

[Skler]

A far reaching recovery is great and all, but this list is based on recovery as a whole (which includes not being edgeguarded to death) so fox belongs in mid. Link should be above shiek in recovery (his range is a lot more and although he can be edgeguarded, it is one of the toughest ones to stop).

 

[Magus420]

Keep in mind that Mewtwo relies on having his 2nd jump to have such a good recovery. Since his game often uses DJC airs, he can end up off stage without it quite often. Jiggs VERY rarely gets knocked off stage with 3 or less jumps, which is easily enough to make it back, and usually plenty to go over the person at the edge and avoid edgeguarding too if they want. On FD, Jiggs can make it back over the edge starting from the blast zone at the bottom btw, so vertical is not that big of a deal. Besides, to be in a position where Mewtwo would be getting spiked by those moves he'd most likely have already used or be in the process of using his 2nd jump, so in most cases he wouldn't have it after getting spiked anyway. Because of that, I don't think he should be in the #1 spot.

 

[Earthbound360]

Mr. G&W has very good recovery. IIRC, the second highest in the game next to the IC. They also have good recovery. They can recover vericaly as well as horizontally. Those two deserve high tier.

Ness may not have the best recover, but when you think about it, it is fairly good. You can slope up the wall of FD and you can sweetspot the ledge with skill. It can also send you in infinite directions. And with a lot of skill, it can prevent being edgeguarded by preventing knockback (via PKthunder barrier). He deserves mid.

Yoshi's recovery is also not too good. Sure it goes high and long, but most likely if you are sent flying off the edge, you are high on damage. If Yoshi's high on damage, a good aerial will stop him. And Sheik is not that good either. It can be somewhat predicted, which could lead to a smash. It also doesn't go that far, and what if you get beneath the ledge? You cant slope up wall with teleport move, unlike FireFox and Super JUmp Puch, so if you do without your second jump, your screwed. They deserve Mid.

 

[Skooled]

I have to say, the Europeans on the Euro SSBM forums loved my tier list.....I don't understand French but from what I could decode, they were either saying "Your a genius" or "I want to eat you."

 

[HyperTheHedgehog]

Jiggs and Samus are girls.

Jiggs can be either gender....

 

[Skylink]

I think that Shiek and kirby should be moved down. Kirby has good/great recovery distance but movement is slow and Kirby has no alternate options, so He can be edgegaurded easily. Shiek Simply can't recover as far, and doesn't belong in high tier.

Also, I think that the middle tier should be bigger. It should include Kirby, Shiek, and Captian Falcon at least, as well as others. Perhaps maybe mario or something. And Luigi. Maybe.

 

[B-Will]

I think that Shiek and kirby should be moved down. Kirby has good/great recovery distance but movement is slow and Kirby has no alternate options, so He can be edgegaurded easily. Shiek Simply can't recover as far, and doesn't belong in high tier.

Also, I think that the middle tier should be bigger. It should include Kirby, Shiek, and Captian Falcon at least, as well as others. Perhaps maybe mario or something. And Luigi. Maybe.

I'll consider your kirby comment; like I said in the first post I believe Kirby has probably the most overrated recovery in the game. However, even if I do believe that, it's hard to place a character with 5 jumps lower than 9th as he is now.

It seems that there are a couple of people that believe that I place shiek to high. I'll probably move that around.

I think you are right about middle tier being bigger. I'll probably be adding dk and ice climbers to it, and now maybe shiek like you said. However, captain falcon? No way in hell. I'm considering putting his recovery at bottom or second to bottom next to doc. His recovery is just as predictable and easier to edgeguard and he can't use his infinited jumps back as effectively as ganon.

Mr. G&W has very good recovery. IIRC, the second highest in the game next to the IC. They also have good recovery. They can recover vericaly as well as horizontally. Those two deserve high tier.

Ness may not have the best recover, but when you think about it, it is fairly good. You can slope up the wall of FD and you can sweetspot the ledge with skill. It can also send you in infinite directions. And with a lot of skill, it can prevent being edgeguarded by preventing knockback (via PKthunder barrier). He deserves mid.

Yoshi's recovery is also not too good. Sure it goes high and long, but most likely if you are sent flying off the edge, you are high on damage. If Yoshi's high on damage, a good aerial will stop him. And Sheik is not that good either. It can be somewhat predicted, which could lead to a smash. It also doesn't go that far, and what if you get beneath the ledge? You cant slope up wall with teleport move, unlike FireFox and Super JUmp Puch, so if you do without your second jump, your screwed. They deserve Mid.

You are right about IC's they should be a lot higher than they are now. I'll move him up. Mr. G&W...yes he has an insane vertical recovery, but you say he has a horizontal one...his horizontal one is almost nonexistant which is why I'm not a fan of his recovery. He is easy to be edgehogged since that is all he has, a vertical recovery. But I'll keep that in mind.

And about yoshi....here is the thing, he has to be high on damage to receive a knockback to put him to his death. And even then, he still has that airdodge to mindgame with. How many times have you seen doc not being able to make it back to the edge at 60? CF good as dead at 40? Falco die at 50? I still like yoshi's placement because he will ALMOST ALWAYS make it back and if at high damage, mindgame with air dodge. I'd like to see what others think about it first. I know The Cape disagreed with me and his knowledge about the game is rediculous but I'm hoping to be able to convince him and other doubters about yoshi's recovery.

Keep in mind that Mewtwo relies on having his 2nd jump to have such a good recovery. Since his game often uses DJC airs, he can end up off stage without it quite often. Jiggs VERY rarely gets knocked off stage with 3 or less jumps, which is easily enough to make it back, and usually plenty to go over the person at the edge and avoid edgeguarding too if they want. On FD, Jiggs can make it back over the edge starting from the blast zone at the bottom btw, so vertical is not that big of a deal. Besides, to be in a position where Mewtwo would be getting spiked by those moves he'd most likely have already used or be in the process of using his 2nd jump, so in most cases he wouldn't have it after getting spiked anyway. Because of that, I don't think he should be in the #1 spot.

Haha yeah you may very well be right but I wasn't making the tier list based on that. I made it based on versatility, the ability to be edgehogged/guarded, and distance. You just added a whole other variable that makes my already tough task harder. Maybe after this tier list is done will I take that into consideration but for right now, it's hard as it is already.

 

[B-Will]

I know this is a double post...

But anyways, the tier list has been modified for the first time based on the comments that i received from all of you. The numbers next to the name on the right indicates what position they were at prior to being moved. An "N/A" indicates that the character wasn't on the list prior to the changes.

Keep the comments coming, I know there still are changes need to be made to these 15 before I move on to the lower half.

 

[Z-N_Freak]

I may be totally wrong, but I don't think Marth should be in middle. Al middles have something extra

Sheik has invisability frames and can change direction while performing her up b
IceClimbers have a huge jump
Kirby has multiple jumps
Ganon has his infinite thing
Young Link has his hookshot for mindgames and he has a up b that comes higher than that frome Link
Yoshi 2nd Jump is wicked and as many already said he has his airdodge to mindgame.

Marth has only his side b to stal a bit of time and gain a bit of distance. But his only recovery trick doesn't come that high, is only vertically and if the foe is hanging on the edge, it can be fairly easy edgeguarded (I think)

cause when rolling he can't grab the edge so he has to land on the ground, witch gives him a bit of lag. In the lag (if I am not mistaken) you can F smash him, or you can just go up the ledge grab him and back throw him, then bair him if possible.

Like I said I maybe tottaly wrong as I don't play marth, but This is what I think.

 

[B-Will]

I may be totally wrong, but I don't think Marth should be in middle. Al middles have something extra

Sheik has invisability frames and can change direction while performing her up b
IceClimbers have a huge jump
Kirby has multiple jumps
Ganon has his infinite thing
Young Link has his hookshot for mindgames and he has a up b that comes higher than that frome Link
Yoshi 2nd Jump is wicked and as many already said he has his airdodge to mindgame.

Marth has only his side b to stal a bit of time and gain a bit of distance. But his only recovery trick doesn't come that high, is only vertically and if the foe is hanging on the edge, it can be fairly easy edgeguarded (I think)

cause when rolling he can't grab the edge so he has to land on the ground, witch gives him a bit of lag. In the lag (if I am not mistaken) you can F smash him, or you can just go up the ledge grab him and back throw him, then bair him if possible.

Like I said I maybe tottaly wrong as I don't play marth, but This is what I think.

A convicing argument and honestly, you are having me second guess his placement too. Something else that goes against marth is that gay lightshield to edgehog trick. What I like about his recovery is his ability to sweetspot the edge at will and his ability to ward off edgeguarders with fair...but I'd like to hear the opinions of others about marth's placement.

I think at worst, marth may move one spot down before dk because as of now, without much though, dk is going to be top of low tier. I dunno yet though.

 

[Totoro_Cless]

What makes this list so tough to be precise is that some chars deserve their positions due to the distance and others due to "tricks", as had been said.
The second is even harder to state cause it all depends on edgeguarding. Disconsidering it, Zelda would be much higher.I just don't see much advantage on Mew2's recovery when compared to Zelda's.^^'
And what you've said about Yoshi's returning skills, B-Will, I agree it's most likely that a good mind-gamed Yoshi will make it back on the stage, that's why I think he should be higher on the list, he has both:Distance and the trick, if only he'd go a little bit higher with that^^'

 

[Z-N_Freak]

I would put Pikachu below Samus, as Samus has a much better recovery imo, cause of her bomb jump and she has her grapple beam + she can wall jump. I think if Pikachu is in Hightier (i agree with that) he would be below Samus. Peach I think should be lower then samus (as she already is thakfully) as she can be screwed when meteored/spiked. Samus still has her grapple/wall jump then. Pikachu I think has a better recovery then Peach, cause it is so fast an he can come back from under FD/BF etc. Still Samus can do that to (only not that fast). I dunno I think Samus and Pikachu are almost equal. I only would Put Samus above Pikachu cause she is so sexy

I think that Pichu deserves to be (for once *baby eyes* ) a upper tier, as she/he is almost the same as Pikachu only a tad slower and a tad less reach, However he/she can Wall jump what could come in handy as a mindgame something.

Link should be above Fox as he has so many ways to come back that is impossible to tell
no really only when he plays on a stage with no walls near the edge, like BF, he is a bit screwed, cause his hookshot is so freakin good and he can't really use it there (but that would be called; stage counter picks)
Fox only has his shine jump thing fore extra height and Fox Illusion to be fast and Fox fire to come from (diognally) down. Link has his Hookshot, his bombjump, his up B and he can sweet spot so freakin good + his up b is hard to edgeguard as it has a really great range. I think only Marth with his long sword and Ganondorf with his Uair can edgeguard his Up b. Fax However can be caped fairly easily (I think) and with some good placed bairs he can't penetrate the defence

Well My opinions are:
Link above Fox
Pichu (down) uppertier
Samus above Pikachu

(Samus Aran )

I would put Pikachu below Samus, as Samus has a much better recovery imo, cause of her bomb jump and she has her grapple beam + she can wall jump. I think if Pikachu is in Hightier (i agree with that) he would be below Samus. Peach I think should be lower then samus (as she already is thakfully) as she can be screwed when meteored/spiked. Samus still has her grapple/wall jump then. Pikachu I think has a better recovery then Peach, cause it is so fast an he can come back from under FD/BF etc. Still Samus can do that to (only not that fast). I dunno I think Samus and Pikachu are almost equal. I only would Put Samus above Pikachu cause she is so sexy

I think that Pichu deserves to be (for once *baby eyes* ) a upper tier, as she/he is almost the same as Pikachu only a tad slower and a tad less reach, However he/she can Wall jump what could come in handy as a mindgame something.

Link should be above Fox as he has so many ways to come back that is impossible to tell
no really only when he plays on a stage with no walls near the edge, like BF, he is a bit screwed, cause his hookshot is so freakin good and he can't really use it there (but that would be called; stage counter picks)
Fox only has his shine jump thing fore extra height and Fox Illusion to be fast and Fox fire to come from (diognally) down. Link has his Hookshot, his bombjump, his up B and he can sweet spot so freakin good + his up b is hard to edgeguard as it has a really great range. I think only Marth with his long sword and Ganondorf with his Uair can edgeguard his Up b. Fax However can be caped fairly easily (I think) and with some good placed bairs he can't penetrate the defence

Well My opinions are:
Link above Fox
Pichu (down) uppertier
Samus above Pikachu

(Samus Aran )

What makes this list so tough to be precise is that some chars deserve their positions due to the distance and others due to "tricks", as had been said.
The second is even harder to state cause it all depends on edgeguarding. Disconsidering it, Zelda would be much higher.I just don't see much advantage on Mew2's recovery when compared to Zelda's.^^'
And what you've said about Yoshi's returning skills, B-Will, I agree it's most likely that a good mind-gamed Yoshi will make it back on the stage, that's why I think he should be higher on the list, he has both:Distance and the trick, if only he'd go a little bit higher with that^^'

yup it makes it tough yet intruiging
I really disagree about Zelda. It is just to hard to sweetpot with her. Her double jump is **** (that is why if I ever change into Zelda I double Jump first with Sheik)
and Mewto's Double Jump is crazy + he has a Up b move with invisibilitty screens and it goes pretty far + it is easy to handle so easy to sweetspot. Zelda should be low tier as she has a great range (still **** up double jump) and she is hard to edge guard when sweetspotted as she has her invisibillity frames. We are going to discuss where she should be in low tier untill the upper 15 (maybe 14 if Marth's going) are done so I am gonna shut up now (for about 10 minutes )

 

[Samochan]

Peach can be hardly spiked since her DI is very good and no characters have an easy way around her parasol's almost unmatched priority. Peach always comes back if she doesn't die and comes back well. There's no reason to put her below Samus or even Pikachu, when both are a lot easier to edgeguard than she it. Samus can be spiked, Samus can be stage-spiked, her bomb recovery can be interrupted. A good Peach player will hardly ever need to use parasol, since she can just recover above the stage. Pikachu, when knocked far off the stage, usually needs to grab the ledge, or his recovery is otherwise predictable in a way that enables the opponent to send him off again. Pikachu's recovery might be better than Samus', but definitely not better than Peach's.

 

[Courtofdoom]

I agree with Z-N. Samus has a better recovery overall with bombs and her grapple. Pikachu does have a quick upb, and the forwardb does help for recovery, but not as much as Samus' bombs.

Luigi is being under estimated in my opinion. He has his forwardb which can end up in a misfire, which basically means he's at the stage. The range at which he can grab the edge is impressive. His downb goes ridiculously high if you can press B 14/sec. I think he should be near the top on the lower tier.

I was wondering why Pikachu and Pichu weren't basically side by side. Is Pikachu's recovery that much better than Pichu's? I don't use either of them very often.

 

[Z-N_Freak]

Pichu's side b is the same as that from Pikachu (minor difrence maybe) but the B up of Pikachu is faster and has a greater reach. As I said; Pichu can perform Wall jump and when used correctly it can save you

 

[Magus420]

EDIT: Nvm, whoever claimed that is an idiot.

 

[Z-N_Freak]

* is turning on his Gamecube *

(I think that is not true so I am gonna check that now)

edit:

Pichu and Pikachu move with the same speed when they perform there up B
however Pikachu's up b reaches further (the first and second) and his "fourth Jump" / "second up B" is performed quicker after he finishes his first up B.

So Pichu is a tad slower due to his lag between his/her 3rd and 4th jump.

 

[ecstatic]

Most importantly, I think the Icy's should be in the top 5. I used to be them, and I could make it back to the stage after a smash from 140%. Not to mention the over b has pretty good priority and will probably still be spinning after you get over the stage.

Second, I have no idea why Mewtwo is so high up, please tell.

 

[Soanevalck]

mewtwo should not be above jiggly, they can get back from generally the same distances, but jiggly has much more options in the air and is harder to edgeguard

with her great DI she can easily avoid any attempts to knock her back out and get on the stage or sweetspot the ledge

mewtwo relies on his second jump to get back and once thats gone he's dead, and during his second jump he's easy to edge guard

during his up B he may have invincibility frames, but if the opponent can predict which way mewtwo will teleport than mewtwo is dead

also, pika should not be above samus, pika can side B, double jump and up B back to the stage and if pika doesnt sweetspot he's hit with a great deal of lag no matter what

samus can bomb jump, grapple beam, and up B and still save her double jump, or still double jump and save her grapple and even if she doesnt sweetspot she doesnt have crazy lag like pika, samus also has better options than pika for ledge hopping back to the stage since her range and priority are better

also, samus should be above mewtwo for that matter, she can recover better than he can

ice climbers should be above fox, they can recover from much farther and are just as unpredictable, if they're both together side B is a great move for recovery since if you can mash B fast enough, the height gained from it is almost as much as fox's verticle recovery with his up B and can go farther horizontally, up B should be saved when nana and popo arent close enough together to side B

also, pichu should be right under pika, they have basically the same recovery except pichu has less lag upon landing, in fact, the least lag out of any char upon landing (if you have good timing), he has a wall jump, pichu's up B doesnt do damage to opponents and he takes some damage, and pichu's up B is slower, for distance, on stages with a flat wall, pichu win's with his wall jump, otherwise, pika can recover from farther away, although with just side B, double jump and up B, the difference is just so small to be acknowledged

i would put jiggly first, samus second, mewtwo third, than pika fourth, and pichu fifth, peach sixth, than ic's and so on

 

[Z-N_Freak]

* is turning on his Gamecube *

(I think that is not true so I am gonna check that now)

edit:

Pichu and Pikachu move with the same speed when they perform there up B
however Pikachu's up b reaches further (the first and second) and his "fourth Jump" / "second up B" is performed quicker after he finishes his first up B.

So Pichu is a tad slower due to his lag between his/her 3rd and 4th jump.

quoting hisself

and the Iceclimbers can come back fairly good, yes. But what if you are alone? You only have side B as you recovery move then. It is also good, but does let you think of a DK/Bowser recovery. If they always would be together they would have made it there I think, but when you are alone you have problems I think. Maybe you should put them twice in the list. One time with Nana and one time without Nana.

If not, I think the IC's are fine as where they are.

 

[Soanevalck]

when popo is alone, he can still make it back pretty often with just his double jump and side B (which goes higher than DK's or Bowser's up B)

unless you're hit by a move like sheik's fair or yoshi's dsmash, you dont really have to worry about not making it back, just DI up and towards the stage

 

[Z-N_Freak]

Yeah maybe your right, I don't play the IC's much so I agree. I also agree with your whole post before mine on this page.

Samus Second

No it really is right and I wanted to come with arguements about that jiggs should be above Mewto. You were faster.

I tattaly agree with:
1. jiggs
2. Samus
3. Mewto
4. Pika
5. Pichu
6. Peach
7. IC's

Still want Link above Fox

 

[Magus420]

Pichu's 2nd part of the up-b is longer though, making the total distance the same. Pichu's is 3 frames slower on each "jump", but pichu has less landing lag than pika does.

Quick Attack (Pikachu)

Total (1 jump): 68
Total (2 jump): 81

Time to aim 1st jump: 13
Time to aim 2nd jump: 26

Hit: 13-18, 27-31

Landlag: 24
Landfallspeciallag: 4

Agility (Pichu)

Total (1 jump): 71
Total (2 jumps): 87

Time to aim 1st jump: 13
Time to aim 2nd jump: 29

Landlag: 12
Landfallspeciallag: 1(!)

About the IC's, sure DIing the hit well will let you live, but that won't stop you from getting hit again... and again... and again.

 

[Z-N_Freak]

That can't be right

what I did was in training mode: both Pichu and Pika next to each other. I did up b at the excact same time and Pikachu was "launched further into the air

You are saying that both the first B up of Pichu and the second B up gives you a greater distance then that from Pika. Though I have seen like a minute ago that that would be not true

 

[Timotee]

I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring for Ness here, and say that he deserves a little respect on this list. Unless he's at the bottom corner of FD, by which I do mean off screen, about to die, a good Ness can get back. If this isn't PAL, then he can use the PK thunder to stop his fall after a spike. He has a large sweetspot.

And then everyone jumps in with "yeah, but people can just jump out and take the PK thunder." Yep, you're right. But Ness doesn't need it if he didn't go off the edge of the screen, and even then it isn't a required thing. Personally, when I do find the need to pull out PK thunder, I do it well before it's become obvious that I'll need it, and it cuts the window to steal it. Oh yes, and it if connects successfully, with "infinite" directional capability, there are the invincibility frames.

But that's just me. Whatever.

Edit: Freak, the stats for Pikachu and Pichu in that post refer to the number of frames it takes to do it, not how far it goes. At least, I'm fairly sure that's what it means.

 

[Soanevalck]

About the IC's, sure DIing the hit well will let you live, but that won't stop you from getting hit again... and again... and again.

exactly, thats why you either go over them, fast fall to the edge, side B into them, or other things like that, it works, and i've made it back to the stage many times

 

[Magus420]

Pichu's 2nd part of the up-b is longer though, making the total distance the same.

Maybe you should read it again? Yes, pika's first is longer, but pichu's 2nd is longer, adding up to the same distance overall.

If they are at a decent percent and get hit by a decently strong attack, they're not going to be able to go over the person afterwards. I play someone who mains ICs often, and if I get him a good amount off stage that he needs to over-b to get back, he usually doesn't get back if I'm using someone who can hit reasonably hard.