Recovery Tier List (Updated 1-5-07)

[chronofreak]

I think I'll stick with what mew2king said about not factoring in DI. I really haven't been doing it this whole time and I am going to continue doing that.

So we're not implementing DI's into characters' recoveries? No offense, but that's absurd. Up b is only a part of a character's recovery. If this is going to be a recovery tier list, every aspect of a character's recovery should be considered, especially DI.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Every character can DI.

Every character has a recovery, but they're all differnt.

This list should be considering recovery from the top left/right, as well as the bottom left/right and paralel to the stage.

 

[Cort]

I think Peach should be better than Pichu/Pikachu. Her dj + float alone outclass them...

Marth should be higher too, his general floatiness paired with good DI almost always makes sure he can clasp onto an edge with just a double jump... But maybe I'm exaggerating a little.

 

[mathos]

So yea definiately only 2 replies to the fact that wallteching should be considered a recovery move, so I'll bring it up again.

Wall teching is a verifiable addition to recovery considering some characters (ie Ganon) do amazingly well with walltechs to get back to the stage whereas other characters (ie Yoshi) make no difference at all.

So I think Wallteching should be considered in this evaluation of recovery tiering.

 

[Cra$hman]

DI helps certain characters more than others, with ganon if he goes high up he can recover from just about anything thanks to his down+b, but with falco if you get knocked higher it barely helps him at all because he gets most of his distance from forward+b which isn't affected by height

 

[Cort]

Also, Luigi should be low tier atleast. His recovery is aboslutely horrid... Even pressing B 14/second doesn't help too much. Well, maybe it does but it can still be punished easily. Luigi can be light shield edge gaurded also, unless they sweet spot perfectly.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

No, this is a recovery list, not an endurance list. If we wanted to know how long characters would live, we would have an endurance list

So what you're really trying to say is that this list is useless in determining real-game recovery ability?

 

[B-Will]

Alright, I'm going to implement DI into this to make it more useful. That being said, floaties and semi floaties are going to be affected most by this. I'll take this into consideration and update the list with the current posts later...I'm too lazy right now.

EDIT: Ledgeteching is something I somewhat overlooked. While it probably won't affect the list as much as DI, I could see it making an impact.

 

[Powda193]

why is CF so far down this list? have u ever played a good CF on dreamland64? he doesnt die.

maybe this fact will come into play when considering DI. however, that CF upB has some really good reach (esp when compared to those of falco and dr mario)

EDIT:
btw, i think this is a really hard list to get right... there are so many things u need to consider

 

[Mew2King]

Fox vs Marth is EVEN, as is Fox vs Sheik. People that know how to space themselves can **** up Fox, all Fox really has is shine to up throw combos.

 

[F8AL]

why is CF so far down this list? have u ever played a good CF on dreamland64? he doesnt die.

maybe this fact will come into play when considering DI. however, that CF upB has some really good reach (esp when compared to those of falco and dr mario)

EDIT:
btw, i think this is a really hard list to get right... there are so many things u need to consider

Captain Falcon is very easy to edgehog or cape...

 

[Elemennopee]

I don't think Mario should be at bottom. His Tornado gives him some vertical and horizontal distance, his cape cuts off all of the knockback of an attack, he can save his double jump for defending himself against edgeguards, and he can extend the horizontal distance of his Up B, which is great for sweetspotting.

I think Mario should be moved up.

 

[AS Money]

roy should not be at the bottom he dose have somethings going for him the first and most obviouse being his <-b is pretty good for getting him to the level and once he is there there is possibilitys for him to get back on is the up b it is also an unpredictable up b cuz you can come in from down below/horizontal or any way you want

im not saying that his recovery is goddly by any means it is pretty bad but i dont think the worst

 

[Elemennopee]

Roy has fast falling speed, his Up B can be Shield Hogged, and his Forward B isn't as good as Marth's Forward B.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Ledgeteching shouldn't play too vital of a role in the list and neither should DI.

I mean, it should but...

The list should already assume that the character will DI the best way possible and also that the character will ledgetech when nessacary.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Fox vs Marth is EVEN, as is Fox vs Sheik. People that know how to space themselves can **** up Fox, all Fox really has is shine to up throw combos.

Yes I know, Fox is horrendous. Thats why Marth and Shiek are top not Fox.

I'm being serious too.

Sorry for the double post.

 

[Brookman]

sheik and marth are easy to edge gaurd against...just hang on the edge.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I think that ledgeteching is a very vital role. It is true that every character has applications for it, but certain characters, mainly Ganon, get more out of it then others.

Also, I think something that is making this list hard to determine is that there are so many different recovery situations. Some characters are better at recovering long distances, while others are best at short distances. Now I know that a recovery can't really be considered good if it has a short range, but keep in mind that this list takes all things into account. That includes range, priority, size of sweetspot, invincibility frames, DI, etc. Some characters who excel at all of those categories except range are incredible at recovering short distances. Basically what I'm saying is that if you get hit 10 feet off the stage the characters best for recovering that distance, and the ones best at recovering from a 20 feet knockback, aren't neccessarily the same characters. If your only a little bit off stage Jiggly's multiple jumps are alot less important then, say, a character with a high priority upB, or who can do something else before second jump. In particular, I feel that Marth is good at close range recovery, because he can perform forwardB near the ledge and at very close range, with the right angle, thats all it takes. If not, then he can DJ afterwards. Also forwardB as you land is useful for protection. If your at a distance that you can recover without having to use your upB then Marth is great.

I realize that this is a matter of weight to a certain degree, and that it has already been said that we shouldn't factor that in. I have a sort of mixed feeling about that. If we are considering things like G&W's DI shouldn't we consider Bowser's weight. G&W has mostly vertical recovery, but we decided that his good DI made up for it. In the same way Bowser has poor recovery range, but he is heavy enough that it is usually all he needs. So instead of having range it has other strengths, like priority, which is more important when near the ledge. Think about it. If a character can recover 20 feet and they are so light that they get knocked back 30, and another character can only recover 10 feet but usually only gets knocked 5, then the 10 ft. recovery is better even though it is shorter. The recoveries are designed to compliment the characters themselves(in most cases).

On the other hand, it would be unfair to put too much emphasis on weight. As has already been said, this is a recovery list not a survivability list. So I wouldn't put down characters like Jiggs, he still has best, maybe second best recovery. But, we should at least realize that there is more to this then simply distance, and in some cases, depending on character and stage, the other factors can become more important than the distance.

EDIT: Made it a little clearer. I was in a rush earlier.

 

[mood4food77]

recovery is based on teh characters ability to make it back to the stage from the farthest point out, so weight should not be a factor, ledge teching should not either because it is the hardest advanced technique to make use of (and the fact that i've only done it twice successfully in a match and died both times from it cause ganon refused to turn around) but that's nto really recovery that's protecting yourself from being stage spiked which is a completely different idea in it's self, it helps you get back to the stage yes, but it is not recovery, so do not include, because if it is, it actually worsens the ICs recovery since you can only tech with one IC at a time

so recovery is the ability to come back to the stage, so a characters ability to make it back after being edgegaurded should be included, falcon and ganon are almost always hit more than once to make sure of the KO, they have the lowest hit lag in the game, which also makes them very annoying to shine spike because you don't expect a character to come back with an up b that fast, yes they're very easy to edgegaurd, but the up b is a grab and it can mess your opponent up if they get too close, the up b do go pretty far horizontally too, they can make it back from places that fox's up b can't when pointed at 0 or 180 degrees

ness isn't limited to his up b, his air dodge goes pretty far, same with zelda (zelda's goes farther than her 2nd jump), bowser can use it too if necessary, along with ICs, DK, yoshi, jiggs, kirby, mewtwo, and mr. g&w, the other characters are either too short or just don't need it (like peach, her float is good enough, she can stop in the air and wait, also her up b has amazing priority, so no need for the air dodge)

also kirby's fair does help him recover, i thought i did it as a habit, but when i don't do it, i don't seem to make it back sometimes as with the fair i do

roy has the worst recovery in the game, he suffers from the most hit lag in the game, he's a fast faller, and his forward can only be used once, if it worked like marth's, he'd be up there, maybe higher than marth because he can sweetspot the ledge better than marth can

jiggs has the best overall recovery, it isn't stage dependent and good luck spiking her, samus is very stage dependent, and mewtwo is the easiest to edgegaurd from the three

 

[mcc]

i think samus is the easiest to edgeguard out of the top 3. her recovery is slow and predictable. and long ranged attacks can screw her up easier than with the other 2. mewtwo's teleport is very fast, can go in multiple directions, and only has 4 frames of landing lag, which makes it hard to edgeguard. also, samus' is stage dependant

edge teching helps with getting back to the stage, so i think it should be counted as a part of recovery. and when would ICs ever need to edgetech?

 

[<π]

yeah mewtwo can sweet spot or go for the stage almost every time he is hit off the stage since both are so easy to get and if you peg the sweet spot right you are invincible almost right out of your dodge or upB. I main sam and her recover is quite attractive nice sweet spot for up B (way under the stage)and nice options for low and high recovery, she is a little stage dependant but DI easily fixes that on most stages you need it.
Jiggs has no Up B just a dodge and pound as good solid comeback options (and jump to sweet spot) but these two are also pretty effective...

 

[Earthbound360]

You're going to make me write an essay defending Ness' recovery if he is not moved up

 

[Elemennopee]

What? So everyone is going to ignore why i think Mario should go up on the list and why Bowser should go down?

 

[cowboyardee]

significantly (at least a few spots IMO) too high:
fox, gannon

significantly too low:
sheik, luigi

top tier looks pretty good. Bottom tier should be something like:
mario
doc mario
falco
roy
falcon

 

[mcc]

shiek has horrible landing lag

luigis recovery is unprotected, predictable (usually), and sucks majorly vertically

theyre fine where they are

 

[StripesOrBars]

Luigi's recovery is under rated.

Predictibility shouldn't matter.

If they can get back who cares.

 

[mcc]

predictability makes them easier to edgeguard

 

[StripesOrBars]

If they can get back to the stage, then its good.

 

[nitro-blazer]

Predictability is a huge part of recovering. If the opponent is predictable, they own't be making it back to the stage because they'll be knocked back out.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Play Green Mario, then tell me any character's recovery is predictable.

 

[Airo]

if predictability didnt matter in this tier list...

mewtwo and samus wouldnt be where they are right now.

instead of calling this a recovery tier list.. you might as well call it "who can jump the highest and farthest" tier list.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Recovery is who can make it back to the stage from the same point.

Everyone would still be exactly the same. Mew2 and Samus included.

 

[mcc]

without edgeguarding?

 

[StripesOrBars]

I really don't see edgeguarding as a factor with recovery.

Maybe slightly. Well, alot really, but,

This isn't a "how long a character can last" list.

 

[cowboyardee]

shiek has horrible landing lag

luigis recovery is unprotected, predictable (usually), and sucks majorly vertically

theyre fine where they are

sheik should most often be sweetspotting (ridiculously easy with her and almost impossible to edgeguard from on the stage) She can mindgame with her teleport and often slap edgehoggers right off the ledge or at least threaten to, which makes edgehogging a somewhat risky proposition unless she'f far enough off the level. There's only a pretty small range of how far off the level sheik can be where the landing lag really matters. Most of the time she's either close enough to mindgame her way to a sweetspot/safely back on, or she's far enough that an edgehog would kill her outright anyway. I'm not saying her recovery is top tier, but it is better than kirby, fox, and maybe the ICs.

Luigi's recovery does suck vertically, but it's **** good horizontally, and it's not even all that predictable if you still have your midair jump after you ->b. Better than DK and G&W.

 

[mcc]

this is a "who can get back to the stage and regain control over their character before getting hit back off the stage" list. edgeguarding plays a large role in that. besides, what good is a long recovery if you're just gonna get hit off again? this list would be pretty useless if it only considered distance. and if it were only about distance, the list would noticeably different

for shiek's recovery: you get invincibility frames when you pull up from the edge, so it's hard to hit someone with teleport while they're hanging there.

luigi: his horizontal is good, and shouldn't usually be a problem if you DI right, but any move that spikes and semi spikeswill kill him

 

[StripesOrBars]

Eh, not really.

Characters that can't get back to the stage easily get edgegaurded easily.

 

[Airo]

I really don't see edgeguarding as a factor with recovery.

Maybe slightly. Well, alot really, but,

This isn't a "how long a character can last" list.

certainly not. but your chances of recovery successfully does depend on your predictability, and predictability is closely linked to stalling capabilities in quite a few cases.

If they can get back to the stage, then its good.

the thing is... they wont make it back..

 

[StripesOrBars]

3rd jump should play the biggest role.

 

[Airo]

ouch for jigglypuff, samus, yoshi, link, younglink, ganon, and luigi