Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?

[EC_Joey]

You do realize that most autistic people who can communicate are geniouses? "A Beautiful Mind"

LMFAO! I'm at a loss for words here. I find it hard to fathom just how THC can come up with stuff like this.

Oh wait... THC! OF COURSE!

Autism doesn't make you a "genious", and neither does Schizophrenia.

 

[Aesir]

You do realize that most autistic people who can communicate are geniouses? "A Beautiful Mind"

Just because some Geniuses are autistic doesn't mean autism = Genius.

ask any parent of an autistic child, savants don't count. >_>

 

[-Linko-]

Just because some Geniuses are autistic doesn't mean autism = Genius.

ask any parent of an autistic child, savants don't count. >_>

Saying that most autists are genius also doesn't mean that ALL autists are genius.

M2K has really got that syndrome, or it is just some unfunny inhuman joke?

 

[thumbswayup]

No, he really has it. Have you ever seen him in real life? He's insane. He can't sit still and he has frequent twitches and spasms. Not to mention it explains perfectly why he's the best Melee player in the world.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

If we really want to have this conversation, then fine. Autistic people are almost always more intelligent than normal people in several aspects, namely math, and often their intelligence in their one field is somewhat linked to their level of autism. As long as the person can properly communicate, he is far more intelligent than most in things such as numbers and puzzles, while lacking in social skills.

 

[thumbswayup]

Actually, people with Autism are more intelligent in whatever they are interested in. One of the effects of Autism is having obsessive interests. When they want to learn more about something, they will learn EVERYTHING about it. Once again, look at M2k. You ask him anything about Melee, he'll tell you everything you need to know and more (including the most random and exact percentages for every scenario he describes).

 

[SamuraiPanda]

If we really want to have this conversation, then fine. Autistic people are almost always more intelligent than normal people in several aspects, namely math, and often their intelligence in their one field is somewhat linked to their level of autism. As long as the person can properly communicate, he is far more intelligent than most in things such as numbers and puzzles, while lacking in social skills.

Wrong. You're describing high-functioning autism, the most evident subset of which is Asperger's Syndrome (the guy who made Pokemon has that :D). Autism =/= intelligence. Not only that, but you'll have to define intelligence before you can truly argue that point.

Oh yeah, also: Get back on topic.

 

[Aesir]

If we really want to have this conversation, then fine. Autistic people are almost always more intelligent than normal people in several aspects, namely math, and often their intelligence in their one field is somewhat linked to their level of autism. As long as the person can properly communicate, he is far more intelligent than most in things such as numbers and puzzles, while lacking in social skills.

You're thinking of a Savant.

There are many forms of autism that can effect the brain in a positive way, and in those cases it's more of a condition then a disorder.

But there are also many cases where the person be autistic and never grow out of a childs mentality.

 

[EC_Joey]

If we really want to have this conversation, then fine. Autistic people are almost always more intelligent than normal people in several aspects, namely math, and often their intelligence in their one field is somewhat linked to their level of autism. As long as the person can properly communicate, he is far more intelligent than most in things such as numbers and puzzles, while lacking in social skills.

Are you for serious? Do some reading.

"A 2001 British study of 26 autistic children found about 30% with intelligence in the normal range (IQ above 70), 50% with mild to moderate ***********, and about 20% with severe to profound *********** (IQ below 35). For ASD other than autism the association is much weaker: the same study reported about 94% of 65 children with PDD-NOS or Asperger's had normal intelligence."

I don't believe there is a link between autism and increased aptitude. In fact, from the statement above, it appears the opposite of what you're claiming is true. You might be thinking of something else.

 

[Aesir]

He's probably thinking of Savant which is linked to autism.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7bVVQ0FZeys

 

[Clai]

No, he really has it. Have you ever seen him in real life? He's insane. He can't sit still and he has frequent twitches and spasms. Not to mention it explains perfectly why he's the best Melee player in the world.

I played M2K for one match and it was the greatest thing I have ever seen in the Smash Brothers universe. I don't even care that I get ***** three ways to Sunday, at the end I was too afraid to move, so I just tried to get my brain running and watched the beauty of the ****. Knowing that I will never, ever, ever, reach anything even remotely close to that level, ever, is the reason I play Brawl.

The reason I didn't discuss Melee camping is because the speed and the skill of the faster players makes it a SKILL to camp in Melee. You have to effectively bring down the speed of the other players to your level because if the other player catches up to you, you get comboed, the player gets up to your grill and your whole camping strategy gets screwed over. Saying there's camping in Melee is not a very viable argument.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=f53aeimv8I0&feature=related

I think this match is particularly campy, but it's still good, knowing that the possibility of 2 minute ****-fests are there, and you have to be really careful to camp effectively.

 

[-Linko-]

No, he really has it. Have you ever seen him in real life? He's insane. He can't sit still and he has frequent twitches and spasms. Not to mention it explains perfectly why he's the best Melee player in the world.

No, I have never seen him in real life. I have seen him on photos, and I have seen his deadly Marth on youtube, but, as my location says (you could have look at it), I live in Spain, so I could never see him unless he comes here to some international tourney (Which aren't hosted in Spain, so anyways there is no way I can see him).

Also because of the same reason, I have never played Brawl (my TV crashes with imported games, so I can't import), so I don't know how sucky it is. This thread frightens me... Should I really buy it in 7 days?

The real question is: Who should I take more seriously: Gimpyfish, AlphaZealot, Scar or Samurai Panda?

 

[EC_Joey]

I think this thread should be closed. Not much real discussion going on.

 

[roy is my boi]

noooo this is my only entertainment.....

 

[Reaver197]

No, I have never seen him in real life. I have seen him on photos, and I have seen his deadly Marth on youtube, but, as my location says (you could have look at it), I live in Spain, so I could never see him unless he comes here to some international tourney (Which aren't hosted in Spain, so anyways there is no way I can see him).

Also because of the same reason, I have never played Brawl (my TV crashes with imported games, so I can't import), so I don't know how sucky it is. This thread frightens me... Should I really buy it in 7 days?

The real question is: Who should I take more seriously: Gimpyfish, AlphaZealot, Scar or Samurai Panda?

Gimpyfish and Scar placed well for tourneys in both games. I don't know about AlphaZealot or Samurai Panda though.

I don't think you should be completely dissuaded from buying Brawl, it's just that for competitive play, Melee strikes a lot of people as the better choice. You can still play Brawl though, but you might become frustrated with it if you expect anything from Melee to really carry over.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

No, I have never seen him in real life. I have seen him on photos, and I have seen his deadly Marth on youtube, but, as my location says (you could have look at it), I live in Spain, so I could never see him unless he comes here to some international tourney (Which aren't hosted in Spain, so anyways there is no way I can see him).

Also because of the same reason, I have never played Brawl (my TV crashes with imported games, so I can't import), so I don't know how sucky it is. This thread frightens me... Should I really buy it in 7 days?

The real question is: Who should I take more seriously: Gimpyfish, AlphaZealot, Scar or Samurai Panda?

You should definately get Brawl. Its a great game that will last you about three months non-stop. Maybe not as a single choice for all eternity like melee, but its absolutely a smash game, so you will enjoy it for a long time, as it has huge replay value.

However, it is a party game, at least in the minds of the developers. So items might be more fun than item-less, FFA than 1v1, and taken lightly it might be better than played for competitive practice.

 

[arrowhead]

The real question is: Who should I take more seriously: Gimpyfish, AlphaZealot, Scar or Samurai Panda?

gimpy and scar

w00t

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Why should you take one person more seriously than another? They're all intelligent, experienced and make valid points.

 

[arrowhead]

Why should you take one person more seriously than another? They're all intelligent, experienced and make valid points.

some make more valid points than others

 

[Pink Reaper]

No, I have never seen him in real life. I have seen him on photos, and I have seen his deadly Marth on youtube, but, as my location says (you could have look at it), I live in Spain, so I could never see him unless he comes here to some international tourney (Which aren't hosted in Spain, so anyways there is no way I can see him).

Also because of the same reason, I have never played Brawl (my TV crashes with imported games, so I can't import), so I don't know how sucky it is. This thread frightens me... Should I really buy it in 7 days?

The real question is: Who should I take more seriously: Gimpyfish, AlphaZealot, Scar or Samurai Panda?

Dude, try this. It might sound craaaaaazy, but it turns out, there's these places that let you RENT games, for like 3-5 days, allowing you to try them out before buying them. Try going there.

 

[LOL_Master]

don't talk about a person's physical traits here, it can be offensive, and if you don't know him, stop posting now

 

[-Linko-]

Dude, try this. It might sound craaaaaazy, but it turns out, there's these places that let you RENT games, for like 3-5 days, allowing you to try them out before buying them. Try going there.

There aren't any near the place where I live. So I always buy or don't play at all.

Why should you take one person more seriously than another? They're all intelligent, experienced and make valid points.

The thing is, what happens when the "valid" points half of them make contradict the "valid" points that make the other half?

But seriously, I will buy Brawl anyways. I was just exaggerating: by some of your posts on this thread, it seemed that Brawl wasn't even worthwhile of being bought!(On this thread one even said: "SSE is the best part of Brawl". And I knew SSE sucks).

I guess the correct answer is just what AZ and Panda said: Give Brawl time for it's metagame to develop...

 

[raphtmarqui]

people still play this game?

 

[RDK]

I guess the correct answer is just what AZ and Panda said: Give Brawl time for it's metagame to develop...

The metagame as of right now is pretty much probably how it's going to be from now on. AlphaZealot knows this, but I'm not so sure about Samuraipanda.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

The metagame as of right now is pretty much probably how it's going to be from now on. AlphaZealot knows this, but I'm not so sure about Samuraipanda.

I can't see the metagame eternally being dominated by only Snake and MK, but the main tactics seem covered. If it developes much, Brawl's metagame will most likely develope slower than melee's.

 

[fkacyan]

I can't see the metagame eternally being dominated by only Snake and MK, but the main tactics seem covered. If it developes much, Brawl's metagame will most likely develope slower than melee's.

Clearly, then, you know about some game-breaking AT that they can't do and the rest can, that nobody else knows about.

Who dominates the metagame doesn't matter. All that matters is who dominates the actual game (i.e. wins), and what that comes down to is who is better.

Regardless, please stop arguing that Brawl has a chance. The only reason many of us play Brawl over Melee is because Brawl has a tourney scene, and Melee doesn't. Or does to a much lesser extent.

Now, can we not turn this into a Melee vs Brawl thread (lol hypocrisy)?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Clearly, then, you know about some game-breaking AT that they can't do and the rest can, that nobody else knows about.

Who dominates the metagame doesn't matter. All that matters is who dominates the actual game (i.e. wins), and what that comes down to is who is better.

Regardless, please stop arguing that Brawl has a chance. The only reason many of us play Brawl over Melee is because Brawl has a tourney scene, and Melee doesn't. Or does to a much lesser extent.

Now, can we not turn this into a Melee vs Brawl thread (lol hypocrisy)?

By that double-standard, Ike dominates at the noob level because noobs can't handle him, and Snake doesn't dominate except in the metagame because he is so difficult to learn. Does that mean Ike wins as much as Snake, and they are equally dominant?

 

[fkacyan]

By that double-standard, Ike dominates at the noob level because noobs can't handle him, and Snake doesn't dominate except in the metagame because he is so difficult to learn. Does that mean Ike wins as much as Snake, and they are equally dominant?

This is... Not what I said.

All I said was that the best people win.

If you're going to have a try at word-twisting... Don't suck at it.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I misunderstood what you meant when you said the game comes down to who is better. I thought you were talking about characters, not players.

 

[Zankoku]

I have no idea what you're talking about, and neither, I suspect, do you.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I have no idea what you're talking about, and neither, I suspect, do you.

I thought that MK and Snake would stop dominating the metagame after a while, then Thiocyanide said the better player always wins, which I took to mean the better character (as in the cast) wins every match in spite of the level of play, then Thio corrected me and I corrected myself.

 

[RDK]

Winning a match in Brawl is more dependant on picking the better character than actually being the better player.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Winning a match in Brawl is more dependant on picking the better character than actually being the better player.

At this point, you're at least half-right.

 

[LOL_Master]

he's right atleast 70 percent, so it makes him more than half right

 

[Eggm]

You have to pick a decent character and have the most patience thats IT. I can't believe people still play this either LOL.

 

[Aesir]

^ So true.

being patient and gay is basically how you play brawl.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

The metagame as of right now is pretty much probably how it's going to be from now on. AlphaZealot knows this, but I'm not so sure about Samuraipanda.

When did AZ ever say that we've reached the pinnacle of the Brawl metagame 4 months after the game is out? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say that, because, ya know, he's intelligent.

Or if you're saying that the "metagame" of which characters are the best, then AZ would disagree with that point as well. Being a Diddy player, he's campaigning for Diddy's position in the game, which many place too low for the character.

EDIT: I forgot my own opinion. I've made it abundantly clear that I believe anybody who thinks MK and Snake are in a god tier above every other character in the game is just bad at Brawl. They are good, but not that good. And I've seen, first hand, the evolution of the metagame for various games spanning many genres, so I'm not naive enough to think that our metagame is anywhere near developed. And if you think we're already as good as we will possibly, then you are just bad at Brawl. Simple as that.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

^ So True.

Being Patient And Gay Is Basically How You Play Brawl.

. .

patience In This Game Is The Be All End All Game. If You Can Make Less Mistakes Than Your Opponent, You're Bound To Win.

edit: wtf @ the quote system, why did it randomly cap every word except "aesir" "cort" and "patience"?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I'm not naive enough to think that our metagame is anywhere near developed.

True dat. But people tend to think that this IS as far as the meta will go and are just giving up on Brawl. Which causes less advances and more people give up. Stupid cycle.

MOST people will probably be playing Brawl by the end of the year because advances WILL be made, but much slower than they would be otherwise since people aren't willing to do the work.

 

[Corigames]

Which isn't fair to the people still making advancements in Melee and being criticized for it, or facing a shun from their communities.