Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[The Official]

Thanks StrongBad. Also that wasn't my Gif that I posted. It was Magus'. I was just wondering if the same thing could be done with Falcon against Falco. I've been following the boards for a while and this seemed very, very interesting to me. I knew no one in the Falcon boards would see it, since it was on the Ganon boards, therefore no one would ask about it. This would be a very good thing for all Falcon main's to learn i think. Also, I will probably not post again unless I have another question no one would probably ask. So thanks

Also, Strongbad you said "unless Falco jc grabs, multishines, or wd's..." Im pretty sure that in the Gif, the Falco was multi-shining since there was no "smoke" after he left the first shine, which would indicate he isn't jumping OoS and wavedashing down into another shine. Also, im not sure about this, but wouldn't the distance from ASDI'ing and SDI'ing avoid the Falco's grab range? Thanks again

 

[TheManaLord]

he's the only smasher in vermont lol there are no vermontese smashers. his first post is awesome, cool stuff.

and yeah if you shield DI you can escape that mos def

 

[The Irish Mafia]

It's just shield DI, i think
he shield di's the shine backward out of the shine's range then shield grabs, if i'm seeing it correctly; there doesn't seem to be the little ring showing an attack landing on shield for the 2nd shine


I spent half an hour trying to find a vid of armada Shield di'ing some lazers. A fox started out a match by hammering B and armada made it halfway across FD lol

 

[KAOSTAR]

Thanks StrongBad. Also that wasn't my Gif that I posted. It was Magus'. I was just wondering if the same thing could be done with Falcon against Falco. I've been following the boards for a while and this seemed very, very interesting to me. I knew no one in the Falcon boards would see it, since it was on the Ganon boards, therefore no one would ask about it. This would be a very good thing for all Falcon main's to learn i think. Also, I will probably not post again unless I have another question no one would probably ask. So thanks

Also, Strongbad you said "unless Falco jc grabs, multishines, or wd's..." Im pretty sure that in the Gif, the Falco was multi-shining since there was no "smoke" after he left the first shine, which would indicate he isn't jumping OoS and wavedashing down into another shine. Also, im not sure about this, but wouldn't the distance from ASDI'ing and SDI'ing avoid the Falco's grab range? Thanks again

Most players cant multishine shield pressure so they are gonna aerial into shines. You are either gonna grab b4 or after the shine. late aerials then wait till after the shine and early ones grab b4.

Watch out if they start grabbing or changing up their patterns so you grab at the wrong time.

Sometimes its best to roll away. Buffer in the roll by holding c stick left or right while shielding. It will roll at the first frame available.

 

[TresChikon]

It's just shield DI, i think
he shield di's the shine backward out of the shine's range then shield grabs, if i'm seeing it correctly; there doesn't seem to be the little ring showing an attack landing on shield for the 2nd shine


I spent half an hour trying to find a vid of armada Shield di'ing some lazers. A fox started out a match by hammering B and armada made it halfway across FD lol

Courtesy of C0nn0r and the Peach boards

hey guys I have a question.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8bdsb7sE6A&feature=related

How the hell do I do THAT?

 

[Strong Badam]

Also, Strongbad you said "unless Falco jc grabs, multishines, or wd's..." Im pretty sure that in the Gif, the Falco was multi-shining since there was no "smoke" after he left the first shine, which would indicate he isn't jumping OoS and wavedashing down into another shine. Also, im not sure about this, but wouldn't the distance from ASDI'ing and SDI'ing avoid the Falco's grab range? Thanks again

yea you can just basically hold away if they're multishining. shine does like 5 shield damage + 6 shield decay from the frames it's up per shine, so they'd have to do like 22-24 shines (IIRC) anyway to actually break your shield, by which time you can DI out of it by just holding away.
it's not really worth learning the timing to grab anyway lol. if a falco is multishining you just buffer a roll.

and no, you wouldn't escape a grab via ASDI + SDI

 

[Teczer0]

...lol

I'm sad that you recorded yourself kneeing a red sheik . You couldn't pick the default color you *******?

But you're still too amazing >_>

 

[Cia]

Are you serious?! Falcon's forward aerial does 18 damage?!

I HATE this ****ing character

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

too bad he's a piece of **** who gets ***** easily by competent characters such as fox falco and sheik

 

[Magus420]

1) Shield one of Falco's aerials. Doesn't matter if you shield DI this or not, or how far he slides into you as long as he doesn't go all the way through you.

2) Continue holding shield and smash away on the control stick immediately after his l-cancel lag would end and would be connecting the shine on your shield to shield SDI it away, and then continue holding away to shield ASDI away as hitlag ends (and in case you mess up and get hit you'll DI the shine by holding away).

3) Start a shield grab immediately as the shine's shieldstun ends (still hold away the whole time), and you'll grab Falco if he does anything besides WD away, JC grab/u-smash, and jumping forward into a perfectly timed immediate rising n-air. Considering you won't be attempting it every single time it's mostly just WD or grab since the u-smash and rising n-air are very unsafe if you don't go for the grab. You should try to time the A button press for the grab, though mashing very fast should work almost as well but you may whiff if they full jump out of the shine where the grab timing needs to be pretty on point.

The first one is with no SDI or ASDI before grabbing the shine, and the one underneath it is the exact same conditions except with a SDI and then the ASDI away+pushback happens 2 frames later.

^^ These were my posts about it in the Ganon boards. Those are indeed perfect forward jumping multishines in the gif, it's just slowed down quite a bit.

It's definitely worth it as long as you're pretty good at it.

 

[Tomacawk]

u dudb;t read **** but i gotta say that was an oustanding post number 1 and 2

 

[Afro_Chris]

ight so i need some help

i need tips vs the fox match up, so like when /how do i get a freaking grab on them, plus how do i escape being **** combo after they like nair threw my moves , i've been told if fox nairs threw falcon's move in the air then shines, if u dont cc the shine u can dash away once u hit the floor cuz theres no stun from the shine. but if u cc it, u continue to get ***** by shines and nair and etc

does that work?

and i need help for the marth match up, if their like dd camping how do i approach without getting ***** by a random *** tipper?

 

[Turazrok]

Falcon has a better dash dance to my understanding, and falcon has the advantage onstage. You just dd a bunch and wait for them to mess up and then combo them is the marth board's take on what falcon does in the MU\

edit: Don't get hit :D

 

[Ryzol_]

If you stomp fox so that after the hit he has 77% and he doesn't DI you get an easy nipple spike. Stomp as fast as you can after you pop him up to nipple. Not sure how useful this is.

 

[Tomacawk]

for fox dd a ****LOAD. small stages are really hard for me in this matchup. I like to pivot bairs when they approach if I can't dd backwards any further because it can sometimes beat his nair. bair->grab at that point if they're at a low %
other than that you can't do much but space nair and try to beat his nair. approaching is a pretty bad idea in this matchup (but when is it not for falcon?) but when you gotta do it, you might stomp them from an above plat, or run in with nair (if they're shielding or dding your approach instead of nairing make sure you space it), or shield approach->whatever/wdoos
the key is get the fear in that dude and make him make mistakes (same thing with sheik imo)
for marth, you gotta be super ****ing patient. they can sit there and utilt after every whiffed aerial they do and catch you before you can grab, so you need to be really careful about how you go in. shield approach works great against marf. so does nair if you can get around the utilt. dthrow until 30%, then uthrow -> uair/nair. uthrow->knee to finish kills after 70%ish, dthrow->whatever at stupid high %s
also a great way to ledgeguard marf is hang on the ledge, then hit away on the control stick and up/backwards on the c stick. it's basically ledge dropzoning but you gotta be FAST because it's hard to live from that

 

[Deleted member]

My favorite move after a mid percent stomp is doing a cross up forward smash. 95% of the time the opponent will miss their DI compared to reverse knee

 

[Afro_Chris]

ight thx tomacawk that helps alot, but about that edge gaurding trick, wont they just tech it? or does it hit marth back off stage?

 

[NES n00b]

whoa someone said my name what up
yea i just got owned by nes noob over and over and then i was confused that jman wasn't ****** him before i realized he wasn't using fox
i'm surprised you remembered me i'm not very memorable

EDIT: Magus is amazing.

Don't be like that. I can **** when I want too.

 

[Strong Badam]

no you aren't darkrain/isai/ss/hax/scar you can't possibly be good with falcon

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Nair will beat a lot of foxes approaches, which leads to grabs and other cool stuff
I just shieldgrab fox if I want to techchase, or do over-b to grab

 

[Tomacawk]

nope
you just hang from the ledge, drop off (DONT FASTFALL) and bair or uair. it hits them backwards and will gimp at **** near any %
but YOU should be the one worried about teching because **** might go down if they're super low percent or if marf up b's as you drop. that's why you should hit r/l right after you aerial because then if you get hit you tech but if you don't get hit then well it's cool because r/l didn't do anything

Nair will beat a lot of foxes approaches, which leads to grabs and other cool stuff
I just shieldgrab fox if I want to techchase, or do over-b to grab

try to shield grab my fox
and I'm not even a great fox

 

[NES n00b]

no you aren't darkrain/isai/ss/hax/scar you can't possibly be good with falcon

Didn't I tell you to not be like that.

Nair will beat a lot of foxes approaches, which leads to grabs and other cool stuff
I just shieldgrab fox if I want to techchase, or do over-b to grab

Only if the first hit of the nair is perfectly spaced. So only a small amount of approaches you predicted or you threw out a well spaced nair and they ran into it.

**** trying to shieldgrab or over b. Now see, that is what is going to get you killed

 

[Tomacawk]

yeah I've been reviewing my matches and noticed how often I side b, especially against puff. I'm gunna pretty much stop doing it always unless I'm tech chasing
anyways, new matches
what do you guys think? ps., I do some pretty creative stuff (KNEEGALIZE!)
vs puff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCP3myJvVlA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8dV34ohX0g
vs marf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpk9P91WeHw
bonus combo video-the big james
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgyPOhLC4TU

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

stuff
(kneegalize!)
Stuff

<3 .

 

[Tomacawk]

<3 .

check my first game dude
I was at the height of creativity lol

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

just watched it. i like

unexpected cc fsmash was beautiful and so were the platform buffer rolls haha

 

[Tomacawk]

thanks lol
I was trying to make falcon kick do something useful but I failed
pretty sure that move is useless
but I will never stop using it

 

[Reaver197]

One thing I've always wondered about, is there any reason to fear dairing a puff after dthrow at low - mid percentages? I often do it against puffs I play in order to tech chase their roll for more grab/knee/****. But, I'm not really sure if that would work against a high-level puff and whether they can, I dunno, DI/wiggle the throw to rest me or something.

On the other hand, another thing I've learned to do is to avoid landing on the level if I can help it against a Jigglypuff (unless, of course, I can ledgecancel or can get far away enough). If she's close enough (which she probably will be if you're returning as Falcon), she has time to rest you out of the landing lag of your up-B. So, be careful with that against puffs who know about it.

 

[Strong Badam]

why would anyone want to approach a fox as falcon
that guy can kill you by running around and kicking and holding down and then hitting b.
run back and forth and then do stuff whenever he tries to attack.

 

[Tomacawk]

yeah clearly nobody will ever need to approach a fox
doesn't he have a gun with unlimited ammo?

 

[Strong Badam]

commence laser dodgin'

 

[Tomacawk]

lol =D
ten =D's

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

thanks lol
I was trying to make falcon kick do something useful but I failed
pretty sure that move is useless
but I will never stop using it

I combo with it.

I break out of techchases by dodging grabs with it.

I fail to understand your concept of "useless".

Oh also I put up a critique thread for my falcon, would be helpful if I got some advice.

 

[Afro_Chris]

yeah I've been reviewing my matches and noticed how often I side b, especially against puff. I'm gunna pretty much stop doing it always unless I'm tech chasing
anyways, new matches
what do you guys think? ps., I do some pretty creative stuff (KNEEGALIZE!)
vs puff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCP3myJvVlA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8dV34ohX0g
vs marf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpk9P91WeHw
bonus combo video-the big james
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgyPOhLC4TU

hey in the first vid u cc jiggs bair into forward smash, is it possible to cc the shot hop bair and grab jiggs out of it? if they do 2 bairs u cc the first and grab them out of the air, i think this should work anyone wana test it and get back to me?

 

[tubes]

yeah clearly nobody will ever need to approach a fox
doesn't he have a gun with unlimited ammo?

I was thinking about this and technically you can punish fox for shooting a laser if your close enough to him right? So why not just dash dance camp close enough so that Fox can't safely shoot lasers and is thus forced to approach you by other means?

 

[Afro_Chris]

I was thinking about this and technically you can punish fox for shooting a laser if your close enough to him right? So why not just dash dance camp close enough so that Fox can't safely shoot lasers and is thus forced to approach you by other means?

falcon gets ***** no matter wat the fox does

 

[Tomacawk]

tubes if that were the case then foxes wouldn't laser falcons
SHL is too fast. and if you're that close then you're just going to get approached
and if you go at them when they land they will shine

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

falcon gets ***** no matter wat the fox does

Afro Chris where u at son!?

 

[Deleted member]

can you shield DI closer to a shiek who down smashes your shield to shield grab him?


i've found that the most i can do from a shiek who down-smashes but isn't quite close enough to get grabbed is to wave dash in and hope he does something dumb like spotdodge

 

[Mogwai]

no, but if Sheik were a dude, you could.

It would be very difficult anyway, since the move has many hitboxes and you would have to shield DI most of them to stay close enough I think and that would probably just shield stab you anyway.