Sliq is Amazing and so Can You! *Now with Smileypants Bowser Avatar!*

[Najeh]

wow ur even more heroic than i ever imagined!
how timely u responded to my queries!
couple follow-up Qs for my hero (u other guys' input is also very appreciated ive been reading the thread and u all seem to know what ur talking about, thx)

Ok, the aeriel side b is way different than the ground version, it slams them down much faster and is more surprising, but ganon cant attack quick enough afterwards to combo with it, even though it LOOKS like he can. still, i wonder if there is some way to utilize these properties mindgames wise. ideas?

less of a question more of comment, i tried setting the c-stick to attack and at first i was diggin it, but then i started doing all sorts of wierd **** like if u press diagonal direction then he nairs, and if u try to use another aerial before the first one finishes ull jump immediately... bad news.. not to mention the stutter step technique being near impossible. the non fastfalling dair thing was the main reason for trying to incorporate it (also tilts out of side b), but i found a way to stop the fastfall thats not nearly as difficult and debilitating as holding down before u reach the peak of ur jump; u have to TILT (very slightly) down RIGHT BEFORE u do the dair and u wont fastfall, even if u only start tilting down when ur already falling below the stage. the important thing to remember is to tilt down ever so slightly enough that it wont make u fastfall and itll "replace" the smash downward input that ur c-stick dair gives u with a tilted input that doesnt make u fastfall. u can even do it almost at the same time that u dair as long as its a slight tilt. that means instead of holding down from the beginning of ur jump, u have full aerial control of ganon untill the very moment that u want to dair. sorry that was a long paragraph and this may have been discovered already but its amazing. using this technique u can ledge drop (press backwards not down while ur hanging) > immediately tilt down and dair at the same time > not fastfall while u do it > get back on the ledge. u can seriously meteor ppl who are below the lowest part of final under the stage and get back.

one more thing: to whoever said that dtilt is useless in this game: its not. its way better than the melee one even though it doesnt kill at like 20 damage.

 

[leafgreen386]

Wow. That tilt down while dairing to avoid ff'ing is gonna be really freaking useful. I don't know if it was known already or not, but this is the first time I've heard about it (although I don't know why I never thought of trying it, as it makes perfect sense, considering it's exactly the same thing as the "hold down before you start falling" thing, which is also being registered as a tilt - you're just not pressing down all the way). Though for the use you mentioned, you may as well just double jump dair, which is considerably safer, but... Finally! Onstage dairs (while falling from higher up) will actually be somewhat safe to do now, and double jumping out to spike someone isn't suicidal. Definitely gonna need to start using this.

edit: And for tilts out of sideB, just hold down or left/right while you're still in the animation, and then mash A. Since you're already holding the direction, it registers it as a tilt instead of a smash.

 

[Dragmire]

Looks like they finally stickied this

I was screwing around with the B stick and found something rather odd for ganon exclusive.
If you initiate a dash then Bstick down lightly you'll perform a short hop. no real use except for the grand mindgame

 

[Sliq]

Double post because I'm smrat.

 

[Sliq]

yeah i figured you would use it when someone was trying to recover it just seems too hard to time properly and seems pretty telegraphed and avoidable

Well, you aren't trying to hit them as they recover. You do it so the move executes a little after they lose their ledge invulnerability, so all of their options are extremely hazardous.

Ok, the aeriel side b is way different than the ground version, it slams them down much faster and is more surprising, but ganon cant attack quick enough afterwards to combo with it, even though it LOOKS like he can. still, i wonder if there is some way to utilize these properties mindgames wise. ideas?

Well, I'm pretty sure you can still follow up with over b tech chasing, but if Ganon is slower to react from the aerial version of the over b, it is looking like the grounded version is better just due to more follow up options.

less of a question more of comment, i tried setting the c-stick to attack and at first i was diggin it, but then i started doing all sorts of wierd **** like if u press diagonal direction then he nairs, and if u try to use another aerial before the first one finishes ull jump immediately... bad news.. not to mention the stutter step technique being near impossible. the non fastfalling dair thing was the main reason for trying to incorporate it (also tilts out of side b), but i found a way to stop the fastfall thats not nearly as difficult and debilitating as holding down before u reach the peak of ur jump; u have to TILT (very slightly) down RIGHT BEFORE u do the dair and u wont fastfall, even if u only start tilting down when ur already falling below the stage. the important thing to remember is to tilt down ever so slightly enough that it wont make u fastfall and itll "replace" the smash downward input that ur c-stick dair gives u with a tilted input that doesnt make u fastfall. u can even do it almost at the same time that u dair as long as its a slight tilt. that means instead of holding down from the beginning of ur jump, u have full aerial control of ganon untill the very moment that u want to dair. sorry that was a long paragraph and this may have been discovered already but its amazing. using this technique u can ledge drop (press backwards not down while ur hanging) > immediately tilt down and dair at the same time > not fastfall while u do it > get back on the ledge. u can seriously meteor ppl who are below the lowest part of final under the stage and get back.

If you look in the section of the first page called "Fuck Fastfalling," I already covered it. Sorry. All you have to di is hold down before you have downward momentum, then hit a and you'll stomp without fastfalling. You can also run off the ledge and stomp immediately without fastfalling if you follow the instructions in the section.

one more thing: to whoever said that dtilt is useless in this game: its not. its way better than the melee one even though it doesnt kill at like 20 damage.

Down tilt has more range than forward tilt.

Wow. That tilt down while dairing to avoid ff'ing is gonna be really freaking useful. I don't know if it was known already or not, but this is the first time I've heard about it (although I don't know why I never thought of trying it, as it makes perfect sense, considering it's exactly the same thing as the "hold down before you start falling" thing, which is also being registered as a tilt - you're just not pressing down all the way). Though for the use you mentioned, you may as well just double jump dair, which is considerably safer, but... Finally! Onstage dairs (while falling from higher up) will actually be somewhat safe to do now, and double jumping out to spike someone isn't suicidal. Definitely gonna need to start using this.

edit: And for tilts out of sideB, just hold down or left/right while you're still in the animation, and then mash A. Since you're already holding the direction, it registers it as a tilt instead of a smash.

See above message, and read the section in the first post called "Fuck Fastfalling."

 

[aequitas.veritas]

whats the b stick???? like setting the cstick to special?
if youre talking about the left joystick then its not the motion of it going down after the initial dash that causes the sh but actually if flicked quickly enough it will rebound back (and THAT motion registers as up) and give you a little sh after the quick crouch. kinda cool technique.

also, i cant seem to stutter step fsmash. is there a video somewhere i can see? because ive tried hundreds of time to hit back and fsmash at the same time and all different timings and they all seem to look the same. i never travel any distance, or else i do a dash attack instead which is completely frustrating.

as to the double reverse warlock punch. its kinda a novelty. would look cool in a hrc but the di's are the same sorry. its all in how you tech your fall. i dont see any real use.

 

[The_Dyne]

The double reverse Murder Fist gives Ganon more aerial acceleration, but the same top speed, I think, so its use is rather limited... but it still has some use.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

The double reverse Murder Fist gives Ganon more aerial acceleration, but the same top speed, I think, so its use is rather limited... but it still has some use.

you forgot the part where you beast the person edgeguarding you in the face with a giant fist of justice

 

[Najeh]

If you look in the section of the first page called "Fuck Fastfalling," I already covered it. Sorry. All you have to di is hold down before you have downward momentum, then hit a and you'll stomp without fastfalling. You can also run off the ledge and stomp immediately without fastfalling if you follow the instructions in the section.



Down tilt has more range than forward tilt.



See above message, and read the section in the first post called "Fuck Fastfalling."

SLIQ PLEASE READ CAREFULLY THIS IS DEFINITELY NEW
i read that **** fast falling section but this is a new technique. u should update the section to say that u can TILT DOWN VERY SLIGHTLY AFTER U ALREADY HAVE DOWNWAD MOMENTUM to not fast fall the dair, basically u tilt down on the control stick at the same time that u hit down on the c stick at any point during ur jump. if u hold down like u said in the first post then u have to start holding it before u have downward momentum, but that limits ur horizontal movement while doing it because for most of the jump your busy holding down instead of moving left or right. also read carefully about the ledge drop thunder stomp i discuss in that post, its mad useful against charcters who have a vertical up-b/ tether recovery, and its impossible to do unless u use the down tilt method, holding instead of tilting down after a ledgedrop will make u fastfall no matter what because ur momentum is carrying u down as soon as u let go of the ledge. im talking about after a ledge drop, not after he falls off the stage.
.
also i meant to say utilt when i said dtilt isnt useless because someone was complaining about how useless it was a few posts ago. granted, its situational, but still mcuh better that the melee version.

 

[tehSANDMAN]

I like mixing in aerial gerudo every so often because it forces them to make a quick decision. Okay, tt doesn't force it's just quicker so opponents temd to make rushed decisions, especially get up attack which you can stomp. Other than that and its OoS use, eh. I usually stick to the ground with it.

 

[:034:]

Hai thar Sliq, I have some questions (in fact, goes for everybody reading this).

Okay, so, we know that dair is awesome. It's obvious that it can break through various non-attacking recoveries and spike. But, the question is, through what attacking recoveries can it break? This question arised when I spiked a Fox during his forward B, to their death (it was pretty manly, I grew 2 feet taller, beer came out of the wall and my hand turned into a gigantic axe).

If somebody could find out which recoveries we can gimp with the dair, I think it'd pretty useful.

 

[Najeh]

as long as u dont hit a disjoint hitbox like a sword and hit the characterf themselves, i think the dair goes through everything. its all about timing but im pretty u can at least trade hits with any up b in the game, except for ike during his super armor frame

edit: yeah sandman i will try that, i guess the shocking speed at which they het hit by aerial gerudo would make an opponent instinctively hit the attack button

 

[whut?]

since when was sliq amazing?
hes an average nobody.

 

[Blackshadow]

since when was sliq amazing?
hes an average nobody.

Join Date: May 2008

lol wut

Spoiler

10ironiccomments

 

[Sliq]

SLIQ PLEASE READ CAREFULLY THIS IS DEFINITELY NEW
i read that **** fast falling section but this is a new technique. u should update the section to say that u can TILT DOWN VERY SLIGHTLY AFTER U ALREADY HAVE DOWNWAD MOMENTUM to not fast fall the dair, basically u tilt down on the control stick at the same time that u hit down on the c stick at any point during ur jump. if u hold down like u said in the first post then u have to start holding it before u have downward momentum, but that limits ur horizontal movement while doing it because for most of the jump your busy holding down instead of moving left or right. also read carefully about the ledge drop thunder stomp i discuss in that post, its mad useful against charcters who have a vertical up-b/ tether recovery, and its impossible to do unless u use the down tilt method, holding instead of tilting down after a ledgedrop will make u fastfall no matter what because ur momentum is carrying u down as soon as u let go of the ledge. im talking about after a ledge drop, not after he falls off the stage.
.
also i meant to say utilt when i said dtilt isnt useless because someone was complaining about how useless it was a few posts ago. granted, its situational, but still mcuh better that the melee version.

Sorry, I misread your post due to lack of paragraphs and capitalization (you might want to look into that).

I was under the impression that it was common knowledge that you only fast fall if you smash down, but I suppose I could add it to to the first post.

 

[QUIVO]

Gunpunch with all the guides and ****

 

[Cooper736]

Okay, new question. I'm trying to become pro with Ganondorf (but then who isn't, right?), but am having some trouble training. Namely I don't know what I should be practicing. I've got the hang of all his techniques, though I do have some trouble Thunderstorming consistently, but I'm trying to learn how to apply them all in practical combat. How do you Sliq, or anyone else, go about daily training to get better?

 

[Sliq]

Okay, new question. I'm trying to become pro with Ganondorf (but then who isn't, right?), but am having some trouble training. Namely I don't know what I should be practicing. I've got the hang of all his techniques, though I do have some trouble Thunderstorming consistently, but I'm trying to learn how to apply them all in practical combat. How do you Sliq, or anyone else, go about daily training to get better?

1.) Go to allisbrawl.com

2.) Sign up

3.) Put your Brawl FC in your profile

4.) Go to chat > matchmaking

5.) Fight a **** ton of people online

Also, attend as many tournaments as you can.

Playing against good people is the best way to learn.

 

[Cooper736]

I suppose I should do that then, but the laginess of Wi-Fi has always turned me off to it. But then I'll just put up with it. Hopefully my college days will be better than these ones, because I'll be able to drive places (there are no tournies where I live).

Thanks for the speedy response.

 

[lain]

I don't think you gain any more distance just jumping then you do murder-fist recovering.

I've tested it short range from top of battlefield platform, which reaches the near edge whichever way you use to get there. But it looks like ganon moves faster horizontally later on in the MFR. testing anyone?

 

[goodoldganon]

I suppose I should do that then, but the laginess of Wi-Fi has always turned me off to it. But then I'll just put up with it. Hopefully my college days will be better than these ones, because I'll be able to drive places (there are no tournies where I live).

Thanks for the speedy response.

I have the same problem. I play good people offline but I lose to people online thanks to wi-fi lag. Between using an HD TV, a wavebird, and wi-fi lag I just can't handle Brawls online for anything other then FFAs.

 

[IR.O.B.edC.Falcon]

This thread is so amazing now. The murder kick cancel helps me a ton with spiking/edgeguarding.

Sliq, who did you main in melee?

 

[Sliq]

This thread is so amazing now. The murder kick cancel helps me a ton with spiking/edgeguarding.

Sliq, who did you main in melee?

Jigglypuff

 

[IR.O.B.edC.Falcon]

That is the most amazing thing I have ever heard in my life. I love you.

 

[Big_R]

lol scrubs of brawful

 

[wWw Dazwa]

hey sliq have you discovered any ganondorf-related uses for meowstepping?

 

[leafgreen386]

hey sliq have you discovered any ganondorf-related uses for meowstepping?

What's... meowstepping? Is it new or something? I haven't heard of it.

 

[Sliq]

What's... meowstepping? Is it new or something? I haven't heard of it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171090

 

[Aeothera]

Dang, thats intricate. Maybe I should try that...

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

A question about murder fist recovery.

I understand he built in Brawl-specific pivot, but how do you do the other pivot, the initial one?

 

[leafgreen386]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171090

Ahahaha. That's great. I'm definitely gonna try incorporating this "meowstepping" into my game now.

 

[aequitas.veritas]

those meowstepping comments really sorta killed the end of this thread. still, props to the person who linked the rickroll video. it got me. i was as excited as a little boy before christmas upon clicking that link

 

[Sliq]

A question about murder fist recovery.

I understand he built in Brawl-specific pivot, but how do you do the other pivot, the initial one?

The same way pivoting neutral b's without the built in pivot (Marth's, Falco).

Tap the opposite direction you are going, and as soon as you release the control stick to the neutral position, hit b.

 

[Pure-???]

Very useful. I may main Ganondorf yet, or at least put him as secondary.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Hey umm, maybe I missed it on the guide thing, but I didn't read about the difference between Aerial Murder Kick and Ground Murder Kick, so I'll go ahead and announce it.

Apparently, Ganondorf's DownB is a spike attack attack when used in the air, so it can be used as a freaking awesome edgeguarding tool, I have found that you will not kill yourself even if you do it right level from the stage, you can merely jump and UpB right back to the ledge.
There is also an EXTREME change in power between aerial and ground murder kick. When done in the air, it can kill even the heavier characters like, Snake, at around 100%, even if the foe is standing on the ground on FD!

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Sorry about the double post, but I have just come to a revelation on how to simplify the Murder Fist Recovery.
You can simply convert the C-stick to B-stick, and you will be able to effortlessly do a pivot punch. From that point you may do the second pivot for the awesome recovery.

 

[Sarijy]

Just picking up Ganondorf, mainly because he is the most evil/kick*** character in Brawl and I want to be good at playing him.
I love his various tricks, but I develop initial skill at a character by sitting down playing 2 life matches with a random CPU set to increasing levels and save every match I win or lose <That I don't screw up horribly on>
Well IC blocks can be reflected when your murder kick hits the ground, such as jumping up and then Down B-ing into the front of the projectile. Does this work with any other projectiles?

 

[MoblinMan]

I'm having trouble with the murder slide, the one where you can slide while throwing a projectile. I roll and then smash the c-stick directly after, sort of like a stutter step but with a roll. It definitely works, but I only slide a couple feet, not half of BF. Can anyone trouble shoot for me? Am I doing it wrong?

 

[Sliq]

I'm having trouble with the murder slide, the one where you can slide while throwing a projectile. I roll and then smash the c-stick directly after, sort of like a stutter step but with a roll. It definitely works, but I only slide a couple feet, not half of BF. Can anyone trouble shoot for me? Am I doing it wrong?

It's all about timing. Just mess with the timing on it. Do it faster, slower, just keep trying it until you get it. When done right you slide quit a ways.

Unrelated note:

Inspiration:

Isaac Brock is the ****.

 

[HAT]

talk talk picture picture
Isaac Brock is the ****.

you have ugly hands that are used to thread hooks on fishing lines.