Smashfest Thursday, September 1st at 5pm. Brawl

[Toronto Joe]

my GW is exquisite and envigorating

 

[AvariceX]

Everyone frustrated with their plateaus: stop switching characters.

Probably sounds hypocritical coming for me (I'm pretty sure I've been through more mains than Supreme Dirt actually, or really close to it), but I'm speaking from experience here. I love Earthbound and I love the way Ness plays in Brawl and in the first month or so of the game I honestly thought he was one of the better characters in the game, so I really really wanted to make him work. More and more problems kept arising for Ness, and I was always weighing my options with other characters, but I never had the dedication to play any of them except Ness and my original main Dedede (who also had problems). Honestly I would have been much better off if I just stuck with one of those 2 characters and learned my hard matchups and just tried to improve instead of trying to fix everything with a character switch.

The exception to this is if you play a real *** character like Ganon; you need to put a day or so of casuals in, going through the whole cast and find a viable character who is fun. It's really important that they're fun because no matter how good they are or how well you do with them at first, you won't really have the dedication to want to improve with them if they aren't fun - When I mained Snake for a while that was by far the most successful I had been in tourney with any character, but even though I started out really good with Snake I found him boring and didn't like him as a character anyway (and never liked MGS at all) so I plateaued quickly and it wasn't feasible to play him anymore. By viable characters I don't just mean MK Snake Diddy Falco either, pretty much C tier and up, you can overcome bad matchups from there. Just don't be like me and think you need a new main every time you do poorly at a tournament. In fact when you do worse than expected at a tourney that's probably the best way to find out what exactly you still need to work on with your character, and you're throwing all that information away if you give up and switch.

Also, your bad matchups as a player are way more important than your bad matchups with your character. I had always been really really horrible against ZSS, but eventually I figured out the matchup pretty well with Ness, so even though I could play Falco who kinda ***** ZSS, I stuck with Ness in that matchup because I knew it and refused to go through learning one of my personal worst matchups with another character.



^Characters I've mained at some point in time, and honestly I should have just stuck to Dedede the whole way through, but I got ***** at my first tourney with him and lost confidence, so I started shuffling between characters all the time. I don't play this game anymore, but I did kinda the same thing in SSFIV just with a tad more stability, but I've now decided to play 100% Akuma for the rest of the time I play the game; he's the character I started with, he's the character I used when I finally started getting (kinda) good, he's the character I have the most experience with (possibly tied with Abel), and most importantly he's the only character in the game (besides Makoto who sucks) that I find fun. Maybe when AE releases I'll try Makoto again, but even then I'll likely stick with Akuma, and I've barred myself from using any of the other characters from now on, and I think I'll be better for it.


tl;dr: Pick a decent character that is fun, stick to them and you'll be fine. Play around with other characters in casuals if you're like me and have a short attention span, just don't be flaky when it's tournament time.

Holy **** I wrote a giant wall of text. Oh well hopefully someone benefits from it.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Honestly, I've made a decision, I'm going to pick a new main, from at the very least C tier or higher. Has to be a character who isn't outright ***** by MK, Marth, or Snake. And I think I know who it is. Except for the "getting ***** by MK" part. Seriously, character has no range, but at least plays however the hell he wants, dies at stupidly high percents, kills at stupidly low percents, etc. Has no trouble getting away from **** ****.
Then I have GaW for MUs where I need range.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Honestly, I've made a decision, I'm going to pick a new main, from at the very least C tier or higher. Has to be a character who isn't outright ***** by MK, Marth, or Snake. And I think I know who it is. Except for the "getting ***** by MK" part. Seriously, character has no range, but at least plays however the hell he wants, dies at stupidly high percents, kills at stupidly low percents, etc. Has no trouble getting away from **** ****.
Then I have GaW for MUs where I need range.

Wario?


Id say keep GW for when people counterpick Final Frustration

 

[cMeDu]

How about you pick a character you enjoy playing?
I picked wolf falco and metaknight.
Hbu?

 

[Gichan]

yo looft i think so to loool. I saw him post on the wario boards. I really wonder how that will play out.

 

[Patches]

Thatd be atleast 3 warios at this tourney. 4 if joe plays his. Which I've beaten. (;

Gi, dirt, and fishy too, since he enjoys wario more than olimar.

 

[Gichan]

tell him to still practice oli, he's VERY important to have.

 

[Patches]

He is. He just likes the concept of farting on people a lot more than throwing colourful carrots.

 

[fUddO]

yo looft i think so to loool. I saw him post on the wario boards. I really wonder how that will play out.

I've seen him on the Pit boards. Double Pit in doubles didn't last very long, and he's ALWAYS said he's hated Wario's theme/playstyle or something. He might be trolling.

 

[cMeDu]

At this point... I don't know what to say. A new main? Again?

 

[Tin Man]

Okay. Look, GaW is a confusing character to talk about. There are point where he can be completely ***** in singles, but (in my opinion), he's the second best doubles character, behind MK.

He gets ***** from bad matchups mostly and in doubles, thats a tricky one i guess. I haven't seen G&W's full potential with teammates like lucario/ZSS but Snake is a very good character in doubles. Probably better than G&W for being overall better and not specifically better with a certain partner. Diddy, Marth, etc could prolly also squeeze in there.

His smashes are strong, but are damn slow. He doesn't have many approaches. Bair, dtilt, rising nair, and even a fair sometimes. It just doesn't really cut it. However, once you get a character in the air, he can be in trouble. Take a look at this basic combo that I do. utilt -> utilt -> nair -> nair. You can even follow up with it, depending on the character and DI. But with no DI or anything, that's an easy 50ish damage. After that you have to play extremely smart if you want to close the gap on the character you're playing against. Sometimes it's near impossible to get in some characters faces and punch them in the eye with your firestick. However, if you're playing against one of those unlucky characters who get hit with your Dsmash after a dthrow, without teching it, (example MK) sometimes your best option is try to get them with a dash grab/pivot grab, and do that, and hope to god they don't tech it.

A slow smash is like Ike. G&W's smashes are slow yes but not by a lot, more like by enough.
After watching Vinnie play Razer, I saw some excellent combos G&W executed on Battlefield. This use of stage seemed extremely exceptional. Watch their pools match when its uploaded (if it gets uploaded).

In doubles though, GaW SHINES. Team with a lucario or someone, and you'll be set. You can bucket pretty well every one of Lucario's moves, and then unleash havoc. Not to mention that GaW is amazing at saving people with uair and UpB. Those windframes are sexy. I would happily go pure GaW in doubles, if I could see my GaW improving anymore, but it just doesn't seem like he's getting anywhere. Even if I am on Wifi a lot more now, it just doesn't work. My GaW is stuck at a point where he won't get better.

Every one of Lucario's moves lol? pretty sure all his A attacks don't get bucketed, and just neutral and side B. Iunno about the improvement thing. There are roadblocks and its all about how u overcome em. have a issue, heres a tissue (joking lol). But take up ur problems with other G&W's and like get their help. when we talked, you told me u have yet to upload ur own vids and get critique.

Dirt. GaW is a VERY good character if you know what you're doing. You have to be a damn good reader, and you have to know what to do, when the opportunity arises. You have to know when to approach, and you have to know when to back off. You also have to know that bucket braking all the time, won't get you anywhere. That's one thing I'm trying to work on as well. DIing is very important to every character. Even a character who can stop his momentum completely. Try incorporating DI WITH bucket braking. For example, DI up and away from the side you're flying from, uair, bucket. It sometimes works a lot better than just mashing on A, in hopes of getting a nair out before you die so you can bucket.

I agree with most of this. Nair is the fastest aerial and will always be better than any other aerial in terms of getting the bucket out the fastest. Learn the tech skill behind it and master the DI + Bucket Brake.

I wanna see your GaW do good, I want to see you place well with him. Don't give up on GaW. You'll be amazing with him in no time. Just keep your chin up, get videos of your GaW. (Send replays to me, I'll record them for you. ), and put them on the boards, get people to criticize and give you advice. Soon, you'll be placing top 3. You got dis.

You should also use this advice bro. And upload dem vids on ur own personal channel .

Everyone frustrated with their plateaus: stop switching characters.

iknowrite

Probably sounds hypocritical coming for me (I'm pretty sure I've been through more mains than Supreme Dirt actually, or really close to it), but I'm speaking from experience here. I love Earthbound and I love the way Ness plays in Brawl and in the first month or so of the game I honestly thought he was one of the better characters in the game, so I really really wanted to make him work. More and more problems kept arising for Ness, and I was always weighing my options with other characters, but I never had the dedication to play any of them except Ness and my original main Dedede (who also had problems). Honestly I would have been much better off if I just stuck with one of those 2 characters and learned my hard matchups and just tried to improve instead of trying to fix everything with a character switch.

You have to see Fuddo's list of Dirt's mains lol, its amazing xD. Staying with ur characters is also a very good thing to do as u attempt to fix their problems. Something else you can do is, instead of maining a different character, keep your main and work on someone else on the side until you are satisfied with them.

The exception to this is if you play a real *** character like Ganon; you need to put a day or so of casuals in, going through the whole cast and find a viable character who is fun. It's really important that they're fun because no matter how good they are or how well you do with them at first, you won't really have the dedication to want to improve with them if they aren't fun - When I mained Snake for a while that was by far the most successful I had been in tourney with any character, but even though I started out really good with Snake I found him boring and didn't like him as a character anyway (and never liked MGS at all) so I plateaued quickly and it wasn't feasible to play him anymore. By viable characters I don't just mean MK Snake Diddy Falco either, pretty much C tier and up, you can overcome bad matchups from there. Just don't be like me and think you need a new main every time you do poorly at a tournament. In fact when you do worse than expected at a tourney that's probably the best way to find out what exactly you still need to work on with your character, and you're throwing all that information away if you give up and switch.

I heavily agree with the last statements. when you do worse than expected, it really makes u think how to improve. I can completely relate to this bak when I started tourneys and even now at Pharaoh's and the OPC where I did worse than I expected. I also agree that C tier characters are viable, but they are bad viable characters. Most characters below them are unviable, just good at certian matchups (Yoshi beating ICs then u see Poltergust beating Smoom at Whobo). The higher the tier you go, the better the chances of you getting better. Minus told me, the better the character you choose, the faster you improve. Viability in a character is a major part of improvement.

Also, your bad matchups as a player are way more important than your bad matchups with your character. I had always been really really horrible against ZSS, but eventually I figured out the matchup pretty well with Ness, so even though I could play Falco who kinda ***** ZSS, I stuck with Ness in that matchup because I knew it and refused to go through learning one of my personal worst matchups with another character.

^ YES! Although, if u did switch to Falco, eventually you'd be more proficient at ZSS with Falco haha. character matchups are still important lol.

^Characters I've mained at some point in time, and honestly I should have just stuck to Dedede the whole way through, but I got ***** at my first tourney with him and lost confidence, so I started shuffling between characters all the time. I don't play this game anymore, but I did kinda the same thing in SSFIV just with a tad more stability, but I've now decided to play 100% Akuma for the rest of the time I play the game; he's the character I started with, he's the character I used when I finally started getting (kinda) good, he's the character I have the most experience with (possibly tied with Abel), and most importantly he's the only character in the game (besides Makoto who sucks) that I find fun. Maybe when AE releases I'll try Makoto again, but even then I'll likely stick with Akuma, and I've barred myself from using any of the other characters from now on, and I think I'll be better for it.

Go getem tiger!

tl;dr: Pick a decent character that is fun, stick to them and you'll be fine. Play around with other characters in casuals if you're like me and have a short attention span, just don't be flaky when it's tournament time.

*thumbs up*

Holy **** I wrote a giant wall of text. Oh well hopefully someone benefits from it.

Honestly, I've made a decision, I'm going to pick a new main, from at the very least C tier or higher. Has to be a character who isn't outright ***** by MK, Marth, or Snake. And I think I know who it is. Except for the "getting ***** by MK" part. Seriously, character has no range, but at least plays however the hell he wants, dies at stupidly high percents, kills at stupidly low percents, etc. Has no trouble getting away from **** ****.
Then I have GaW for MUs where I need range.

At this point... I don't know what to say. A new main? Again?

I totally agree with you on this one. Dirt. Why do you keep changing characters? I wanna help you out with this one.

How about you pick a character you enjoy playing?
I picked metaknight.
Hbu?

Fixed. U dropped the others.

tell him to still practice oli, he's VERY important to have.

The only bad matchup Wario has that Olimar covers is DDD. You only truly need a secondary for a matchup you go less than even with. There there are stages as well I suppose. Dat snake takes u to Halberd/FD, go Olimar. My point being tho, Peach, MK, and Marth are big problems because those bad matchups overlap for both characters. I'll take MK out of the equation because going even with MK is rather difficult so to add more room to that, use a character thats -1 on MK (which wario is) and I realize you do not want to use MK.

The characters that go at the very least even with Peach, Marth, and Dedede (sans MK) are:

Falco, DDD, Toon Link.

These are Wario's best secondaries.

He is. He just likes the concept of farting on people a lot more than throwing colourful carrots.

 

[cMeDu]

Supreme dirt...
honestly this has to be the last time you're finding a new main ><.
Too often man... you're not giving yourself the chance to actually "learn" the character. Just because you might not get the results you immediately want from a character (even metaknight) doesn't mean you should try to find a character that you THINK will give you the immediate gratification, that simply isn't the case.

Honestly, how many players have simply dropped a character, picked up a new one, and have gotten immediate success? I'm guessing you have yet to uncover a lot of stuff from your 'main' before swapping him for another one.

My point is, learn a character before deciding. That allows you to further develop your fundamentals, improving your game as a whole. If you simply drop characters, you won't be learning anything in the long run.

 

[Smoom77]

Just saying, me vs Polt on livestream were friendlies, and I beat him the weekend before. but whatever.

 

[Tin Man]

=_= name searcher's. Some people need a second hobby...

 

[Supreme Dirt]

LOL WRONG. NOT WARIO.

I am very much considering learning Wario at a much later time, but it's not Wario.

 

[AvariceX]

Sounded like ROB to me tbh. Either that or Lucario.



Except for that "no range" part.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Sounded like ROB to me tbh. Either that or Lucario.



Except for that "no range" part.

Compared to MK and Marth.

Also, considering two secondaries, I enjoy playing both, one has all kinds of item shenanigans, the other is about the fourth gimicky high-top tier character imo.

Spoiler

Lucario, Peach, Mindgames and Watch

 

[fUddO]

Only on the planet of Supreme Dirt does Lucario have no range.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Gi you having another one of these before the tourney?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Hey, if I can't grab someone from 3 falcons away, that's no range.

Also yeah, we should really have another smashfest before the tournament. I need to practice not Forward Smashing.

 

[Tin Man]

Only like Olimar, Samus, Link, ZSS can do that.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Dedede. Well, his pivot grab anyways.

I've heard rumours that people have been grabbed playing 2 televisions over by D3.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Dedede. Well, his pivot grab anyways.

I've heard rumours that people have been grabbed playing 2 televisions over by D3.

Lmao. Made me think of this http://www.halolz.com/2011/02/27/shinku-hadouken/

 

[Gichan]

sorry sexies, not this week too busy with ****.

 

[Patches]

I'mma be down for this next smashfest, even though I live so far away. I need the practice.

 

[Gichan]

Alright, who's down for friday? Or do you guys want to wait one more week before training up again?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'm down for Friday. I'm trying to get down that janky buffered pivot grab for Dedede.

 

[Gichan]

good, I wanna play your DDD. I need help in that MU. How's your DI btw?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Getting so much better.

I don't give a **** what anyone says.

Playing SSE is making my DI better.


Oh, also, since the final version of Minus gets released on Friday, would people humour me a bit and try it out with me? I'm just psyched for it because apparently DK and Peach are actually good now, and MK no longer flat out beats everyone with three moves (DTilt, UAir, and Nado. Except Bowser. Substitute UAir with NAir and Nado with NAir.).

 

[Gichan]

Well, I have 5 tvs now LOL, so why not.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Awesome.
10awesomes.

 

[Patches]

If I can find a ride, Fishy and I will be there.

 

[Tin Man]

5 TV's How?

Btw, not coming. School is ****** lol.

 

[Gichan]

nevermind, no smashfest this friday. We'll do one next week for sure though guys. Sorry.

5 tvs because Ambrose gave me that 27 inch crt tv we were using for Project melee. It's awesome to have 3 27inch crts for casuals but I'm having major issues with sotring it. I might have to give it away but I'd prefer to give it to someone who has a car so they can bing it to tournaments. We'll see.

DAMIT, sorry patches, I promise you next week. Free chocolate bars for you LOL.

 

[Patches]

****.. I had a ride and everything too. XD

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Ingersoll, is your kind of place
For business and for fun!
It's LIIIIIIIIIIIIIFE at the perfect pace,
Where people get things done!
Ontario's festival town.
We're small town big, and big town proud!
Life is good, in winter, spring, summer or FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL!
Life at the perfect pace, Ingersoll!

Done from memory.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Oops. Read this after I texted you

 

[Nicknyte]

I was totally coming to this too.
Not really.

 

[Gichan]

^

LOL. That's so random, what makes you visit canada's social forums?