TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[UncleSam]

@ US
Wrong. That logic is faulty at best. You and I do not know how many bounties Captain Falcon has brought in. It could be 50, it could be 100, it could be over 150+. Each one will be different and offer different experiences to Falcon, as Samus' have for hers.

Your sig is faulty too. =\

how many wars has C. Falcon been in?

toc you know a martial art you know about momentum right?

 

[payasofobia]

OK, first of all.

Captain Falcon armor: He is NOT inmune to shots or laser guns. Nowhere in canon has it said that his suit is anything more than a racer's suit. It does not give extra protection. It is nothing more than a racer outfit.

http://fzero.wikia.com/wiki/Captain_Falcon#Characteristics

-----------

Second: electrolaser and paralyzer being the same.

You can say that the paralyzer its useless because it cannot harm the space pirates in the game but, think for a second and look at the power suit's standard attacks and the space pirates in the mothership.

Those pirates are red ones. The strongest kind of space pirate second only to the gold ones, as shown in Super Metroid and Metroid Zero Mission. They have superior weaponry and armour. They are the elite of an extremely advanced race that has technology proven to be more than a match for the galactic federation they are fighting against.

Hell, even Metroid Prime 3's strongest breed of Pirate is red:

The only thing shown to be a match for that armour is a beam that can pierce through anything, has an infinite range, shoots 3 blasts per shot and freezes the opponent completely.


This is more a case of the pirates and the power suit beams being extremely broken, not a case of the paralyser being super weak.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolaser


And this brings up the potency of the electrolaser. It is basicaly a taser taken up to eleven. It will jam your electronic weapons (Falcon's futuristic blaster), it will completely paralyze Falcon if he survives the blast and the bullet is as fast as a lightning. About 96% of the speed of light actually.

And you can shoot it whenever you want. You don't have to stand still to use it.
---------------

Third:

No, the captain's muscles realisticaly would not let him move as fast as he does in Brawl. It is not realistic.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MusclesAreMeaningless

Proof:

Joseph Greenstein, known professionally as The Mighty Atom (and likely inspiring the golden age DC Comics character of that name, and Astro Boy's original name) weighed 15 pounds less than Bruce Lee did. His feats included changing a tire without any tools, biting through nails and chains, lying on a bed of nails with a 14 piece Dixieland band playing on a board on his chest, and stopping a plane from taking off by clipping it to his hair. He first became interested in developing his body and mind when a jealous suitor of his wife shot him at near point blank range between the eyes. The bullet broke his skin, but flattened itself against his skull.

Pictured above: The Mighty Atom.

No bodybuilder can do what he has done.

Some of his feats of strength included:

Pulling a 32 ton truck with his hair.
Holding back an airplane with his hair.
Lying on a bed of nails supporting a 14 person band on his chest.
Breaking up to three chains by expanding his chest.
Removing a car tire from its rim, bending steel bars, spikes and horse shoes, all with his bare hands.
Driving spikes into wood planks with his palm.



Bruce Lee was about 160 pounds at his heaviest, and slimmed down in later years. By his movie-making prime, he was about 135-140 pounds, 5'7, and could do pushups with a 250 pound man standing on his back.

This is because he opted to gain lean muscle instead of mass muscle in his training. Just like in the bodybuilder example, those large muscles are mostly for show and the smaller-looking man of similar weight is often the actual stronger one.



Tone>Bulk.

 

[REL38]

@Nova

Biased, dude.

Falcon has his manhood and neck exposed. Both of which can't be countered upon taking the impact.

Samus has her breasts, crotch and hair. All of which can be countered upon impact.

Both have joints and neck as weakpoints.

 

[payasofobia]

Point of post: Captain Falcon loses.

 

[UncleSam]

paya get on xat, and watch people not agree with it.

 

[Snowstalker]

ZSS could always just fake-flirt with CF, get close, and then just zap him.

 

[UncleSam]

ZSS could always just fake-flirt with CF, get close, and then just zap him.

omg dude I said that like 4 pages ago and nobody cared.

 

[JOE!]

ok, thats a nice description of 1 guy in history, but how does it relate to Falcon? He may be a bit bulky, but it's not like pipeye fighting bluto here: is falcon that slow compared to Samus, that she literally dances around him, NEVER getting hit or messing up? Or seeing as in all his canon he is shown as fast, he can keep up?


Secondly, is an elctro-laser what samus shoots? last MU we determined it could only function like a taser of our time. And Falcon has a pistol, shoots bullets, cannot be electronically jammed. You even went off and talked about samus' wweapons vs a space pirate. We are using her thingy from brawl.

QUESTION:

What happens if Falcon grapples Samus? Using his strength couldnt he just pretty much break her?

Why arent we discussing who can take a hit better?

Exactly how much faster is Samus?

 

[UncleSam]

QUESTION:

What happens if Falcon grapples Samus? Using his strength couldnt he just pretty much break her?

we were talking about this. reversals

Why arent we discussing who can take a hit better?

@Nova

Biased, dude.

Falcon has his manhood and neck exposed. Both of which can't be countered upon taking the impact.

Samus has her breasts, crotch and hair. All of which can be countered upon impact.

Both have joints and neck as weakpoints.

Exactly how much faster is Samus?

we talked about this as well.
samus has been training since the age of 3.
I want to know how long Falcon's been training.

answered in quotes

 

[JOE!]

Sam, i meant in general. Nutshots were taken out way earlier.

If samus is punches in the stomach, and samus punches falcon in teh stomach, who is worse off?

EIDT: as for reversals, falcon is bigger, and Samus has thinner areas to grab. She will have trouble getting out of say, an arm-bar

 

[UncleSam]

Who's gonna get punched in the stomach?

EDIT: and the bigger stuff is BS and you know it, you can do reversals/sacrifice throws/ect. on people much larger than you with little effort.

 

[JOE!]

its just an example or a general area. But the question stands: when the blows are thrown, who can take the hits of who better?

 

[UncleSam]

but you are expecting someone who has been training all her life to avoid blows and counter attack effectively with little effort to be hit by a simple punch or blow.
She's strong and agile, that combination rules.

 

[Sieguest]

OK, first of all.

Captain Falcon armor: He is NOT inmune to shots or laser guns. Nowhere in canon has it said that his suit is anything more than a racer's suit. It does not give extra protection. It is nothing more than a racer outfit.

http://fzero.wikia.com/wiki/Captain_Falcon#Characteristics

-----------

Second: electrolaser and paralyzer being the same.

You can say that the paralyzer its useless because it cannot harm the space pirates in the game but, think for a second and look at the power suit's standard attacks and the space pirates in the mothership.

Those pirates are red ones. The strongest kind of space pirate second only to the gold ones, as shown in Super Metroid and Metroid Zero Mission. They have superior weaponry and armour. They are the elite of an extremely advanced race that has technology proven to be more than a match for the galactic federation they are fighting against.

Hell, even Metroid Prime 3's strongest breed of Pirate is red:

The only thing shown to be a match for that armour is a beam that can pierce through anything, has an infinite range, shoots 3 blasts per shot and freezes the opponent completely.


This is more a case of the pirates and the power suit beams being extremely broken, not a case of the paralyser being super weak.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolaser


And this brings up the potency of the electrolaser. It is basicaly a taser taken up to eleven. It will jam your electronic weapons (Falcon's futuristic blaster), it will completely paralyze Falcon if he survives the blast and the bullet is as fast as a lightning. About 96% of the speed of light actually.

And you can shoot it whenever you want. You don't have to stand still to use it.
---------------

Third:

No, the captain's muscles realisticaly would not let him move as fast as he does in Brawl. It is not realistic.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MusclesAreMeaningless

Proof:

Joseph Greenstein, known professionally as The Mighty Atom (and likely inspiring the golden age DC Comics character of that name, and Astro Boy's original name) weighed 15 pounds less than Bruce Lee did. His feats included changing a tire without any tools, biting through nails and chains, lying on a bed of nails with a 14 piece Dixieland band playing on a board on his chest, and stopping a plane from taking off by clipping it to his hair. He first became interested in developing his body and mind when a jealous suitor of his wife shot him at near point blank range between the eyes. The bullet broke his skin, but flattened itself against his skull.

Pictured above: The Mighty Atom.

No bodybuilder can do what he has done.

Some of his feats of strength included:

Pulling a 32 ton truck with his hair.
Holding back an airplane with his hair.
Lying on a bed of nails supporting a 14 person band on his chest.
Breaking up to three chains by expanding his chest.
Removing a car tire from its rim, bending steel bars, spikes and horse shoes, all with his bare hands.
Driving spikes into wood planks with his palm.



Bruce Lee was about 160 pounds at his heaviest, and slimmed down in later years. By his movie-making prime, he was about 135-140 pounds, 5'7, and could do pushups with a 250 pound man standing on his back.

This is because he opted to gain lean muscle instead of mass muscle in his training. Just like in the bodybuilder example, those large muscles are mostly for show and the smaller-looking man of similar weight is often the actual stronger one.



Tone>Bulk.

You still haven't addressed packing and stacking
and I have proof of PEOPLE who breaks your "realism"
it's called it's a small word...my grandfather
my point stands
don't even know how in the hell you went off on the pirate tangent...
don't even know how in the hell you pulled an electrolaser into this. we determined earlier it's just a taser. We said earlier that Falcon only had a pistol...
and why you still compare Falcon to a Body-Builder is beyond me...
HE'S A BOUNTY-HUNTER! He's been at this job for years, he must be at a peak of physical fitness... it's only "logical"...
Jesus to Heavenly Christ help you...

 

[UncleSam]

You still haven't addressed packing and stacking
and I have proof of someone who breaks your "realism"
it's called it's a small word...
my point stands

I don't get it.
and I don't think anyone actually read that article.
EDIT: marthage- samus has been training since she was 3 and joined the feds at like 18.
what about falcon.

 

[Sieguest]

I don't get it.
and I don't think anyone actually read that article.

I read it...and I don't really see much in it other than a guy, with rock-hard bone structure...

 

[JOE!]

Sam, Samus could have trained for that long, yes, but does that make her perfect, and incomparable to falcon who is the best bounty hunter of his universe?

 

[UncleSam]

Sam, Samus could have trained for that long, yes, but does that make her perfect, and incomparable to falcon who is the best bounty hunter of his universe?

he was trained by humans. In a universe filled with humans and animal/human splices.

 

[payasofobia]

ok, thats a nice description of 1 guy in history, but how does it relate to Falcon? He may be a bit bulky, but it's not like pipeye fighting bluto here: is falcon that slow compared to Samus, that she literally dances around him, NEVER getting hit or messing up? Or seeing as in all his canon he is shown as fast, he can keep up?


Secondly, is an elctro-laser what samus shoots? last MU we determined it could only function like a taser of our time. And Falcon has a pistol, shoots bullets, cannot be electronically jammed. You even went off and talked about samus' wweapons vs a space pirate. We are using her thingy from brawl.

QUESTION:

What happens if Falcon grapples Samus? Using his strength couldnt he just pretty much break her?

Why arent we discussing who can take a hit better?

Exactly how much faster is Samus?

That's because he has the exact physique of a bodybuilder, just in a little smaller scale. He is not going to be Ganondorf slow, but he will be at most as fast as Ike. And the speed will greatly hinder the strenght of his blows.

And what we have been saying in this whole thread: canon != real life.

And Samus will not screw up. She is THE bounty hunter of her universe. A notch above every other bounty hunter ever. She single handheldly eradicated 3 super weapon species and have foiled the plans of an entire galactic empire on par or even greater than the federation. She also was skilled enough to outrun a mothership's worth of elite space pirated without her suit and a relatively weak weapon in her universe, using her wits and dexterity alone.

She has succeded where multiple of the best bounty hunters failed. (corruption and hunters)

She will NOT mess up.


Second: we did not disscus that MU throughly. Electro lasers are more fitting because they are completely ranged and do not require cables to deliver the shocks, like the paralyser.

Also, stats are not unchanging. Case in point: Charizard and Galleom. One day they are kicking *** because of a lack of investigation and the next they suck at everything.


3) Question: what happens if a well defined Samus with a LOT more speed and strenght and therefore likeness of grappling the Captain grapples him?



4) The captain can take more hits, but again, Samus is stronger, attacks more quickly and accurately and dodges better. She still has the advantage.




5)And Samus's training made her superior or equal to the best humans in the world. The current fastest human runs 10.6 meters per second.

 

[UncleSam]

here's something for all the people who thought she has Chozo blood. it's DNA.
The change in proteins developed by the body in this splice led to increased efficiency in Samus' skills.
It's what the government tries to do in all those sci-fi shows except the chozo were actually successful.
create a superhuman.

 

[payasofobia]

And guess what new technology we have developed in recent years that can TOTALLY change the physiology of a lifeform?

Yeah, UncleSam brought a good point. She could actually have superhuman powers.


The only reason this MU went this far its because of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

 

[UncleSam]

Also that wikitroid is gay with clashing views.
and people think wikipedia is bad... my god... look at this... wtf...

 

[JOE!]

And what we have been saying in this whole thread: canon != real life.

And Samus will not screw up. She is THE bounty hunter of her universe. A notch above every other bounty hunter ever. She single handheldly eradicated 3 super weapon species and have foiled the plans of an entire galactic empire on par or even greater than the federation. She also was skilled enough to outrun a mothership's worth of elite space pirated without her suit and a relatively weak weapon in her universe, using her wits and dexterity alone.

She has succeded where multiple of the best bounty hunters failed. (corruption and hunters)

She will NOT mess up.

i found this funny as hell


as for the rest, If she grapples falcon, he'll break out becaus ehe is harder to hold onto (bigger, think of gripping a Can of soda vs a 2liter) and much stronger.

Seriously, how strong do you think she is?

As for her being better than every human. How vague is that? Thats almost going back to poke-stats in how Lucario should be able to move Battleships, because he is 10 attk points lower than machamp, who can move mountains.

Being better than every human has got to mean better than a normal human. There will be better people than her in some areas.

 

[UncleSam]

The only reason this MU went this far its because of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

you're welcome.

i found this funny as hell


as for the rest, If she grapples falcon, he'll break out becaus ehe is harder to hold onto (bigger, think of gripping a Can of soda vs a 2liter) and much stronger.

Seriously, how strong do you think she is?

As for her being better than every human. How vague is that? Thats almost going back to poke-stats in how Lucario should be able to move Battleships, because he is 10 attk points lower than machamp, who can move mountains.

Being better than every human has got to mean better than a normal human. There will be better people than her in some areas.

did you not just see the word superhuman in my post?
she's been spliced with the DNA of descendants of GODS.
if it ends up as Ike vs. Samus in the end I'm pulling this back up since paya thinks Ike would be invincible.
it was paya right?

 

[payasofobia]

Grapple him in his joints.

And like I and Adum have said: tone>bulk.

The captain will have a harder time getting out of a grapple or grappling samus. Samus can just use her chest muscles to break chai- I mean, break out of the grapple. Samus is stronger, more accurate and mobile than the captain. The only thing he has is defense because of his muscles.

Not counting the fact that her Zero suit is actually made for battle, that she is WAY more skilled than him and has a better weapon.


And the last problem its simple: comparing her performance with that of famous people in history using databases.

 

[UncleSam]

she can also target joint areas to throw him off balance, free hits? taser/electrolaser?
it can happen vice versa, but it's harder for Falcon to get in a hit.

 

[payasofobia]

Or simply electrolaser.

96% the speed of light anyone? Even if it doesn't kill him, his muscles will be too damaged to move.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Soooooo.....is it over?

 

[Sieguest]

he was trained by humans. In a universe filled with humans and animal/human splices.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Imah get to this

Sam, Samus could have trained for that long, yes, but does that make her perfect, and incomparable to falcon who is the best bounty hunter of his universe?

adding on............

Grapple him in his joints.

And like I and Adum have said: tone>bulk.

The captain will have a harder time getting out of a grapple or grappling samus. Samus can just use her chest muscles to break chai- I mean, break out of the grapple. Samus is stronger, more accurate and mobile than the captain. The only thing he has is defense because of his muscles.

Not counting the fact that her Zero suit is actually made for battle, that she is WAY more skilled than him and has a better weapon.


And the last problem its simple: comparing her performance with that of famous people in history using databases.

Almost there....

she can also target joint areas to throw him off balance, free hits? taser/electrolaser?
it can happen vice versa, but it's harder for Falcon to get in a hit.

one more.........

Or simply electrolaser.

96% the speed of light anyone? Even if it doesn't kill him, his muscles will be too damaged to move.

........yes..............

This reminds me of something I said a long time ago, when I had a cooler name...and such...lemme search it, or if you can guess what I'm about say based on these quotes I've quoted, then go ahead and try to argue it...

will edit...

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Whoops, no, it isn't.

 

[Sieguest]

Whoops, no, it isn't.

technically you could say it is....

No one is going to agree with what I'm going to post, they didn't last time so.....

 

[payasofobia]

Ill go away for a few hours. Don't finish without me.

 

[UncleSam]

technically you could say it is....

No one is going to agree with what I'm going to post, they didn't last time so.....

nobody ever agrees with what anyone posts. that's what an argument is. clashing opinions.

 

[Sieguest]

with both of their universes' attributes in comparison to a foreign universe is a null argument....

This is why I haven't been convinced...

In a nutshell with minor tweaking to fit situation...
Nostalgia ftw...

@sam-then they're doing wrong...
the point is to come to a consensus...

 

[Skadorski]

nobody ever agrees with what anyone posts. that's what an argument is. clashing opinions.

I dissagree with this.




Anyway, if she god the DNA of the descendants of god then I don't know how anyone can think Falcon can win.


You know what.... it seems like JOE! is going on one side here... while he should be giving facts and for the most part staying out of it....
The thread maker should be on both sides.

 

[UncleSam]

The point to come to a consensus is a debate. all in all people still aren't going to like the results

 

[Sieguest]

I dissagree with this.




Anyway, if she god the DNA of the descendants of god then I don't know how anyone can think Falcon can win.

You're the reason I made the afore mentioned post....

You know what.... it seems like JOE! is going on one side here... while he should be giving facts and for the most part staying out of it....
The thread maker should be on both sides.

JOE! has just as much right to argue his point as any other person even if he is the thread creator...
lay off...

@Sam- Well not everyone can be pleased, but as long as they understand, then the discussion is successful
There's a difference

 

[UncleSam]

JOE! has just as much right to argue his point as any other person even if he is the thread creator...

lay off...

thing is he can tweak rules.
he took out crotch shots for Wario and for Falcon because they had that weakness and the other didn't.
EDIT: also the debates go by pretty fast people are still not going to be satisfied. why do you think Sheik vs. Zelda was still being discussed long after it was put on hold/stopped?

 

[JOE!]

if samus is created by the DNA of gods....why isnt this in itself barred out?

Seeing as mythical gods = dont exist, therefore their dna = dont exist o_O

also, how the hell is she stronger?

look at this "pic"

(ignore the Lulz factor plz)

look at how much smaller ZSS is to falcon. How is it possible she is stronger? even if she is toned? His hand and arm look strong enough to break he neck by grabbing it o_O


Im not trying to take sides, but really...how is Samus able to pull off this super-human strength vs Falcon?


@ crotch shots:

they were taken out cus it was too silly/situational and would account for what? 2 kills if they are both going at it?

 

[Skadorski]

You're the reason I made the afore mentioned post....


Wait wut

JOE! has just as much right to argue his point as any other person even if he is the thread creator...
lay off...
Dude I was giving my opinion. The person who decides the winner should be on both sides, therefore there is not a biased answer. If he is on both sides, then his decision would always be the winner, no matter how much info the people give.

So what's going on here, have we come to a desicion?