Team Fortress 2

[ndayday]

I could be a backup for Medic and Pyro. I'm guessing the chances of needing either of those replacements is going to be slim though, so I don't know if you even want to add me to the list.


Uh. Item drops...yeah. They're nice. Got a kritz last night...haven't seen that one before.

 

[Isatis]

edit: nevermind lol.

 

[M@v]

Also, I'm pretty sure everyone can be a backup heavy, because its well heavy. You can roll your face on the keyboard and still be a decent heavy. I'm not saying its an amazing or broken class; its just that easy to play heavy lol.

The best description of how to play heavy I've seen:

step 1: hit e
step 2: point weapon at bad things
step 3: kill bad things

 

[Krynxe]

Have you played heavy versus actually good players? There's a reason heavy isn't a part of regular 6v6 teams.

It's true that heavy is easy and rolls in pubs, but heavy is very difficult at high level play because it's so easy to kill them since once you start firing, you dedicate yourself and make yourself very vulnerable.

I can agree that pretty much anyone could be a backup medic though, as long they know the couple of things medics need to know. (Stand on front when ubering, not standing still while healing, general communication, etc etc)

I'd go into more detail, but I have had to leave the house like 5 minute ago x_x

 

[M@v]

Thats why I said he's just easy to play, not amazing as a class. The mechanics of playing a heavy aren't difficult: The only real shooting technique that needs to be learned is revving the mini gun while jumping so you can take corners more quickly. Heavies are really easy to kill as you mentioned.

sniper and spy are my 2 most played classes, so when I see a heavy, I immediately think free kill because it usually is :D

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I remember having glowworm on steam, I think

and then I remember "meeting" and adding Morino at a much later time

I don't know if I'm a terrible person for this x_x;

Why don't you just talk to Morino and figure out for yourself.

I could be a backup for Medic and Pyro. I'm guessing the chances of needing either of those replacements is going to be slim though, so I don't know if you even want to add me to the list.

The real question is, do you want to be part of Team SWF for UGC Highlander and / do you want a shiny Genuine UGC Participation Medal? And possibly a ranked one if the team goes huge?

Towards the end of the season or even whenever possible, I'll try to cycle some backups in so they get some experience and actually get to play. Like I said, communication is crucial in and out of matches so we'll be talking as a team.

Have you played heavy versus actually good players? There's a reason heavy isn't a part of regular 6v6 teams.

It's true that heavy is easy and rolls in pubs, but heavy is very difficult at high level play because it's so easy to kill them since once you start firing, you dedicate yourself and make yourself very vulnerable.

There's a reason, it's because the Heavy is slow. All classes in 6's are the fastest in the game (and have immediate high damage output). Scouts and the fastest default, Soldiers and Rocket Jumps, Demomen and Sticky Jumps, and the Medic is the second fastest class (ignoring Equalizer, etc.). If the Heavy was incorporated into 6's, the Medic loses mobility because obviously you wouldn't want to leave the Heavy alone for free picks, so it takes away from the style of 6's.

With that said though, in regards to Highlander, it's very easy for anyone to pickup the Heavy slot. Heavy is one of two classes (the other being the Engineer) in Highlander who aren't "exceptional" in that you can't quite be a "bad" Heavy (assuming you're still playing with a mouse and keyboard). The two classes are relatively shallow compared to all the other classes. Scouts, Soldiers and Demomen need to know rollouts and have strong DM. Pyro's need to adjust to styles of the combo (depending on the Pyro's playstyle) and Engineer (when defending). Medics need high awareness of the environment to make strong comms, among others. Snipers need to know priorities and Spies need to assess situations to know which picks will be most beneficial for the team. The Heavy? Just make sure you can use M2 and are listening to comms and you should be alright.

I'd just rather have Krynxe start because we've played through various games together.

---

John, is it possible to give me the OP? I'd hate to have to keep bothering you and / or M@v for updates.

[collapse=Details]Team: Smash World Fortress
Tag: SWF.

-Starters-
Terywj - Medic, Pyro
Krynxe - Heavy
Bionic - Engineer
Morino - Scout, Soldier
M@V - Sniper, Spy, Scout
GwJumpman - Pyro, Scout
John2K4 - Demoman, Spy
Ulises - Spy

-Backups-
Rei - Medic / Pyro
UltMario - Scout / Soldier / Demoman
Ndayday - Medic / Pyro
Arcansi - Pyro[/collapse]

 

[Arcansi]

I'm a main pyro on a different team, so unfortunately I can't sub for SWF this season.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ahh alright, thanks anyways, Arcansi!

Edit--We're going to be playing in the fall season, not the upcoming summer season for UGC, if that matters.

 

[John2k4]

Sure Tery - let me check with M@v. =)

OP is yours, Tery.

 

[Morin0]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2677458

 

[ndayday]

^totes going to try that.

 

[Isatis]

Updated the thread title so people don't get confused

The single-player map sounds fun

 

[Morin0]

Anyone that is interested in playing should def. hit up MGE servers

(such as myself lolol)

 

[Krynxe]

GRU makes heavy faster than medic lol

Despite heavy seeming simplistic, it's a lot of knowing how much you can take before you need to worry about survival, what is and isn't safe, map positioning, making sure you put yourself in situations where your enemy can't run away or easy kill you, etc.

I'm not trying to argue that heavy is terribly complex and I'm definitely not saying anyone is wrong or right. (I don't want to start an argument >.<). I just believe that heavy is definitely not the easiest to play well, but he is very easy to pick up for a beginner. I think soldier is probably the easiest class to play well, you just need the skills to do so. Once you get the hang of his rocket game - jumping, juggling and such - he's just a fun and easy class who does extremely well both alone and with his team. (Having so few disadvantages and class counters make up for some of the difficulties he has)

Either way, I can play every class aside from sniper at near top level play. I just assume you guys want me on heavy, so I'll accept that. He is my favorite to play after all, next to demo and soldier. If you guys want me on something else though, I don't mind.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

MGE only helps straight up DM ability, only useful for Scouts, Soldiers, and Demomen (to some extent Pyro). Heavies, Spies, and Snipers benefit more from just straight pubbing although a lack of communication can hurt. All in all, try some Highlander Lobbies to get some basic Highlander experience before we start meeting together and practicing.

------

GRU makes heavy faster than medic lol

GRU is banned in 6's.

 

[Morin0]

MGE only helps straight up DM ability, only useful for Scouts, Soldiers, and Demomen (to some extent Pyro). Heavies, Spies, and Snipers benefit more from just straight pubbing although a lack of communication can hurt. All in all, try some Highlander Lobbies to get some basic Highlander experience before we start meeting together and practicing.

aka me

edit:

There's a TF2 update and this caught my eye:

Updated The Enforcer
+20% damage bonus while undisguised
-20% firing speed
No random criticals

I didn't even get the chance to use The Enforcer one last time before this update The slower firing speed kind of sucks so hmm..

 

[UltiMario]

The slower firing speed kind of sucks so hmm..

WRONG

The slower firing speed is awesome

 

[Terywj [태리]]

What the balls? A forced slower firing speed means you're more accurate. Sure, it's less "spammy" but brings more power. What exactly does +20% damage while undisguised" mean? When you shoot from your disguise, aren't you already undisguised?

They finally fixed the Rocket Jumper so it's not useless anymore. I'm interested in what the new model looks like.

 

[UltiMario]

It means that the one shot that undisguises you doesn't have a damage buff.

 

[ulises3000]

I'm glad the Rocket Jumper finally got boosted up to the Sticky Jumper. It was well overdue.

And honestly don't think the nerf on the Enforcer is gonna do too much. The first shot is still gonna be as strong as a regular Revolver shot and if I'm not mistaken, they got rid of the .5 extra second of cloaking and decloaking. The slower firing speed won't do much if the Spy has decently good aim.

 

[UltiMario]

Less DPS.

No random crits for pubs.

Isn't OP with Dead Ringer.

I think that's a fair nerf.

 

[Arcansi]

Ahh alright, thanks anyways, Arcansi!

Edit--We're going to be playing in the fall season, not the upcoming summer season for UGC, if that matters.

Don't count on me being in. No offense, I would just rather be a main pyro if I can, and it looks like I can.

 

[Krynxe]

GRU is banned in 6's.

I had no idea. Seems a bit silly, but I can see their reasoning haha

 

[Terywj [태리]]

And honestly don't think the nerf on the Enforcer is gonna do too much. The first shot is still gonna be as strong as a regular Revolver shot and if I'm not mistaken, they got rid of the .5 extra second of cloaking and decloaking. The slower firing speed won't do much if the Spy has decently good aim.

Ohh you're right, I completely overlooked the lack of a longer decloak time. That's absurd too. A straight upgrade to the default Revolver, a rough sidegrade to the Ambassador.

Don't count on me being in. No offense, I would just rather be a main pyro if I can, and it looks like I can.

Oh no, that's what I was saying, was that if you were interested in subbing for us, we would be playing in the fall season. I'll remove you from the list of backups. And I think you meant "and it looks like I can't".

 

[UltiMario]

So who else has been playing on hightower after this update. A lot.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I just have my jump maps. I never liked the concept of Payload Race and I don't really pub often anyways.

Edit--I consider Saxton Hale a completely different mode.

 

[Krynxe]

They finally fixed the Rocket Jumper so it's not useless anymore. I'm interested in what the new model looks like.

I'm glad the Rocket Jumper finally got boosted up to the Sticky Jumper. It was well overdue.

huh whaa??

What did they do? Increased clip size? No fall damage when equipped? Remove the stupid damage nerf?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

huh whaa??

What did they do? Increased clip size? No fall damage when equipped? Remove the stupid damage nerf?

The Rocket Jumper has the same qualities as the Sticky Jumper now, no absurd "+100% damage from everything". And the sexy orange styled skin.

 

[Krynxe]

So they returned it to its former glory?

*fabulous voice*
Time for some CTF!

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So they returned it to its former glory?

*fabulous voice*
Time for some CTF!

Oh, and you can't grab intelligence while using either Sticky or Rocket Jumper.

 

[Krynxe]

dfkbgfdghbfgadsfgj

GABE NEWELL

Oh well, I guess I have to up the metagame of soldier now

I got the best idea

disciplinary actions your teammates from spawn to the front, then rocketjump back and repeat

Support solly

 

[Terywj [태리]]

dfkbgfdghbfgadsfgj

GABE NEWELL

LMAO

Oh well, I guess I have to up the metagame of soldier now

I got the best idea

disciplinary actions your teammates from spawn to the front, then rocketjump back and repeat

Support solly

That sounds like the most uninteresting / boring / lame idea ever.

 

[Morin0]

How about Market Garderer Soldier?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Rocket Jumper / Mantreads / Market Gardener is the only Soldier setup. The Soldier setup.

 

[Krynxe]

The batt. backup was awesome when it would charge from fall damage LOL

good times

 

[Isatis]

Rocket Jumper / Mantreads / Market Gardener is the only Soldier setup. The Soldier setup.

This is now the "Trollider Loadout" according to Reddit.

Although, yeah, it's a GODLIKE loadout now. Now I wonder if there will be Strange qualities for the Rocket Jumper/Sticky Jumper.

 

[M@v]

Still gonna use the enforcer. Yeah its nerfed, but its still probably the best spy gun, although the ambassador can actually make a case for best spy gun now too. You need to be godlike with headshots on it though. That's crazy hard to do, and this is coming from the sniper.

Although its always fun killing razorback snipers assassination style with an ambassador headshot

 

[Mic_128]

Now I wonder if there will be Strange qualities for the Rocket Jumper/Sticky Jumper.

How? You can't get any kills with them.

 

[UltiMario]

Ohh you're right, I completely overlooked the lack of a longer decloak time. That's absurd too. A straight upgrade to the default Revolver, a rough sidegrade to the Ambassador.

Okay no let me put this to bed.

REVOLVER:
BASE DPS:
40 dmg / .58 sec = 69 dps

ENFORCER:
BASE DPS:
48 dmg / .696 sec = 69 dps

DPS for both weapons is THE SAME. ON TOP OF THAT:

DISGUISED DPS (over 2 shots):
40 + 48 dmg / 2(.696) sec = 63 dps

2 Shots has the most difference with normal DPS for the enforcer, obviously. Losing about 6 damage per second if you start firing from a disguise.

TIMING however, the most noticeable difference between the two is:
Enforcer deliver a bigger punch for ONE SHOT (undisguised)
Revolver delivers TWO SHOTS in noticably less time, and can do 66% more damage in that time the enforcer is still recharging.

Of course, the revolver still fires the rest of the shots faster, so your damage comes out earlier and earlier.

For Pubs, the enforcer now also loses its crits.

It's not an upgrade. I'd have trouble even calling it a side grade now. The Enforcer, for once, could actually have become a DOWNGRADE. If the FIRST SHOT that you fire with the Enforcer doesn't kill the opponent, you're BETTER OFF USING THE REVOLVER. Not to mention, if you fire your first shot from a Disguise, again, you're STILL better off using the Revolver, or even better, the Ambassador.

How? You can't get any kills with them.

Counts Miles Jumped.

 

[M@v]

There's one key thing missing in your info ulti. The dps is important, but we need to take that info one step further and turn into how many shots that equals to kill each class, and the time it takes. We will assume all classes are full health and no overheal.

I will also include a 3rd calculation, which will be the enforcer with the "nerfed" first shot. It will be called disguised enforcer.

125 health classes:

Revolver-needs 4 shots:
.58X4=2.32 seconds

Enforcer-needs 3 shots:
.696X3=2.088 seconds

Disguised Enforcer- Needs 3 shots (40+48+48)
.696X3=2.088 seconds

150 Health classes

Revolver-needs 4 shots:
.58X4=2.32 seconds

Enforcer-needs 4 shots:
.696X4=2.784 seconds

Disguised Enforcer- Needs 4 shots
.696X4=2.784 seconds

175 Health classes

Revolver-needs 5 shots:
.58X5=2.9 seconds

Enforcer-needs 4 shots:
.696X4=2.784 seconds

Disguised Enforcer- Needs 4 shots
.696X4=2.784 seconds

200 Health classes (soldier)

Revolver-needs 5 shots:
.58X5=2.9 seconds

Enforcer-needs 5 shots:
.696X5=3.48 seconds

Disguised Enforcer- Needs 5 shots
.696X4=3.48 seconds

300 Health classes (Heavy)
note: revolver and enforcer reload same speed, so that will not affect heavy results

Revolver-needs 8 shots:
.58X8=4.64 seconds

Enforcer-needs 7 shots:
.696X7=4.872 seconds

Disguised Enforcer- Needs 7 shots
.696X7=4.872 seconds

What does it all mean?

REVOLVER is better vs all health ranges except 125 health and 175 health classes.
It shocked me that the revolver kills a heavy quicker even though it needs 1 more shot.

ENFORCER deals with 125 health and 175 health classes better, which under normal loadouts, make up 6 of the 9 classes.

Enforcer deals with normal Sniper, spy, normal scout, normal engy, pyro, and demoman better.

Revolver deals with Gunslinger engies, medics, dangershield snipers, milkman kit scouts, eyelander demoman, soldiers, and heavies better.

THE DISGUISED ENFORCER shot makes no difference when up against full health classes; it kills just as fast as normal enforcer shots. It would only come into play against damaged/overhealed classes.

Honestly, its kinda hard to determine a better revolver. Valve balanced it very well.