THE DREAMLAND INVASION: "Kirby Character Discussion Thread"

[Z1GMA]

It doesn't necessarily have to be a Kirby Character.
Some other character created by Sakurai could be added.
But then again, sakurai hasn't created that many characters outside the Kirby Franshise.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Prince Fluff could be interesting, but I'd actually prefer Bandana Dee and I think he is the most likely Kirby newcomer. That's not saying much though, the Bandana Dee isn't that likely.

 

[EddyBearr]

I love Prince Fluff. I actually think he's more likely, because of yarn mechanics translating into attacks.

Can you guys give me 10 Unique and Personal (or semi-personal) moves for Waddle Dee, please. (not just moves.)

EX: Mario.
Fireball, though can also be used by luigi, is semi-personal. He used it in SMW, and other games.
Cape, though can also be used by luigi, is semi-personal. He used it in SMW, and I think other games.
Fludd: Mario's move, used in SMS.
Up-Special: This is how mario jumped in SMB(1), and I think SMW. He would get coins from blocks, hence the coins in his move.
Jab Combo: Jab combo from SM64.
Down Smash: Attack from SM64.
Dash attack: Attack from SM64.
Backthrow & forward throw: How he threw bowser in SM64.j
Wall Jump. He could Wall Jump in SM64.
Classic Taunt: He grew big from mushrooms in many games.
Dair: Spinning jump from SMW.

EX: Peach.
Floating: from I think SMB(2).
F-Smash (golf club): from Mario Golf series, where she is a classic player.

EX: Yoshi.
Double Jump: How yoshi "double jumps" in games.
Down air: Slight extrapolation from how Yoshi double jumps in games.
An example wouldn't be, though: "random spear attack because he has a spear." He has to actually make the motion. An example wouldn't be: He has a fast running speed because it was written he's fast in this game, or is fast in this game.

 

[Sid-cada]

I love Prince Fluff. I actually think he's more likely, because of yarn mechanics translating into attacks.

Did you not play Return to Dreamland? He's equipped with the Spear Ability there. Anyways, on to the 10 moves...

Spear Thrust - A simple jab with the spear forward, the most basic move from the Spear Ability.

Mulitspear Attack - A rapid blur of spear strikes that continues the attack from above.

Finisher Strike - The last hit in the combo, similar to Spear Thrust while taking a step forward.

Skyward Thrust - Grabbing the spear in both hands, he points it upward before thrusting.

Moon Drop - A mid-air move. Points the spear straight downwards, then drops down while spinning.

Spear Throw - A simple toss of the spear, a curving projectile with good distance.

Triple Throw - A charged up version of Spear Throw, throwing 3 spears at once in a spread. While both of these used to be a dash attack, I'd feel they'd be more at home in the Neutral Special. Potentially, more spears could be added.

Spear Barrage - A mid-air version of Spear Throw, capable of being rapid-fired.

Spear Copter - After charging for a moment, spins the spear above his head like a helicopter. This gives him flight while damaging anything caught in the spear.


Other moves, not taken from the Spear Ability:

Jump Tackle - An expression of the damage-on-contact Waddle Dees have been doing for ages.

Arena Toughness - Waddle Dee takes on a defensive pose that reduces damage and knockback if he is hit. A reference to the unusually durable Waddle Dee in the Arena from Superstar, which was replaced by Bandanna Dee in Ultra.

Megaton Punch - An ultra-powerful, earth-shattering punch to the ground, causing shockwaves and tremors. Likely a Final Smash. A reference to the mini-game of the same name from Superstar, where Bandanna Dee made his first appearance.

Slide Kick - The same duck, then kick move Kirby has been doing ever since Adventure. Rather general, but called out as one of Bandanna Dee's trademarks in the True Arena description for Returns ("When the bandana wearer kicks...").


All in all, that's 13 moves. I managed to do it without referencing anything from the Crystal Shards' specific Waddle Dee or the Parasol Ability Waddle Dees are associated with, which adds a great deal more moves.

 

[EddyBearr]

Did you not play Return to Dreamland? He's equipped with the Spear Ability there. Anyways, on to the 10 moves...

Spear Thrust - A simple jab with the spear forward, the most basic move from the Spear Ability.

Mulitspear Attack - A rapid blur of spear strikes that continues the attack from above.

Finisher Strike - The last hit in the combo, similar to Spear Thrust while taking a step forward.

Skyward Thrust - Grabbing the spear in both hands, he points it upward before thrusting.

Moon Drop - A mid-air move. Points the spear straight downwards, then drops down while spinning.

Spear Throw - A simple toss of the spear, a curving projectile with good distance.

Triple Throw - A charged up version of Spear Throw, throwing 3 spears at once in a spread. While both of these used to be a dash attack, I'd feel they'd be more at home in the Neutral Special. Potentially, more spears could be added.

Spear Barrage - A mid-air version of Spear Throw, capable of being rapid-fired.

Spear Copter - After charging for a moment, spins the spear above his head like a helicopter. This gives him flight while damaging anything caught in the spear.


Other moves, not taken from the Spear Ability:

Jump Tackle - An expression of the damage-on-contact Waddle Dees have been doing for ages.

Arena Toughness - Waddle Dee takes on a defensive pose that reduces damage and knockback if he is hit. A reference to the unusually durable Waddle Dee in the Arena from Superstar, which was replaced by Bandanna Dee in Ultra.

Megaton Punch - An ultra-powerful, earth-shattering punch to the ground, causing shockwaves and tremors. Likely a Final Smash. A reference to the mini-game of the same name from Superstar, where Bandanna Dee made his first appearance.

Slide Kick - The same duck, then kick move Kirby has been doing ever since Adventure. Rather general, but called out as one of Bandanna Dee's trademarks in the True Arena description for Returns ("When the bandana wearer kicks...").


All in all, that's 13 moves. I managed to do it without referencing anything from the Crystal Shards' specific Waddle Dee or the Parasol Ability Waddle Dees are associated with, which adds a great deal more moves.

Are all these spear techniques just made up on the spot "because he uses a spear," or was he actually "spinning a spear above him like a helicopter" in a game? If it's the former, then those don't count at all. Only the latter constitutes a personal & unique move.

By "Personal & unique," I mean things that truly relates to them in the sense that they actually did them, not that they "could" do them.

Mario's Down Smash is quite literally what happened in SM64 if you crouched and pressed B.
Mario's dash attack is quite literally what happened if you pressed down and b at the same time (or b just after down) while running in SM64.

And no, I've only played Kirby's Epic Yarn Not a Kirby fan at all.

 

[Sid-cada]

Are all these spear techniques just made up on the spot "because he uses a spear," or was he actually "spinning a spear above him like a helicopter" in a game? If it's the former, then those don't count at all.

By "Personal & unique," I mean things that truly relates to them in the sense that they actually did them, not that they "could" do them.

Yes, they are from the Spear Ability. In fact, all those techniques in the first section (except for the Finishing Strike, which is lumped together with Mulitspear Atack) were named from what Spear Ability called them.

 

[EddyBearr]

Yes, they are from the Spear Ability. In fact, all those techniques in the first section (except for the Finishing Strike, which is lumped together with Mulitspear Atack) were named from what Spear Ability called them.

If I'm interpreting you right, Waddle Dee did them all himself, not just kirby? Like, it's not saying that Waddle Dee should be able to because Kirby could after stealing Spear Ability?

If so, good enough for me. Sadly, a pure spear moveset can be quite bland, so I'm wondering if you can throw me 3-4 unique/personal moves (2 if they're fantastic) he could have alongside them, that have nothing to do with spears (or things pretty similar to spears.)

 

[Robert of Normandy]

If I'm interpreting the page right, Kirby used the moves originally, but eventually Waddle Dee used them all himself?

All of the 3 player characters other than Kirby use abilities that are analogous to Kirby's copies abilities. Dedede is pretty much just the hammer ability(with an infinite hammer throw!), and Meta Knight is Sword with a bit of Wing mixed in.

If so, good enough for me. Sadly, a pure spear moveset can be quite bland, so I'm wondering if you can throw me 3-4 unique/personal moves (2 if they're fantastic) he could have alongside them, that have nothing to do with spears (or things pretty similar to spears.)

He could always use the Megaton Punch from Super Star.

If you'd allow it, you could probably also get something from the Parasol ability(since Parasol Waddle Dees are a thing)

 

[Sid-cada]

If I'm interpreting you right, Waddle Dee did them all himself, not just kirby? Like, it's not saying that Waddle Dee should be able to because Kirby could after stealing Spear Ability?

If so, good enough for me. Sadly, a pure spear moveset can be quite bland, so I'm wondering if you can throw me 3-4 unique/personal moves (2 if they're fantastic) he could have alongside them, that have nothing to do with spears (or things pretty similar to spears.)

On your first point- Waddle Dee was playable alongside Dedede and Meta Knight in Returns to Dreamland. His move set was basically the same as Spear, though he could move faster mid-air due to jumping instead of inflating. Just to clear things up.

On your second point, I already had a section dedicated to non-spear moves. Copy pasted for your convenience-

Jump Tackle - An expression of the damage-on-contact Waddle Dees have been doing for ages.

Arena Toughness - Waddle Dee takes on a defensive pose that reduces damage and knockback if he is hit. A reference to the unusually durable Waddle Dee in the Arena from Superstar, which was replaced by Bandanna Dee in Ultra.

Megaton Punch - An ultra-powerful, earth-shattering punch to the ground, causing shockwaves and tremors. Likely a Final Smash. A reference to the mini-game of the same name from Superstar, where Bandanna Dee made his first appearance.

Slide Kick - The same duck, then kick move Kirby has been doing ever since Adventure. Rather general, but called out as one of Bandanna Dee's trademarks in the True Arena description for Returns ("When the bandana wearer kicks...").

Again, this list does not take into account Kirby and the Crystal Shards, where a Dark Matter-possed Waddle Dee was a mini-boss fight, or Parasols, which Waddle Dees have been using ever sense Kirby began. (Video showing a Waddle Dee with a Parasol.)

 

[EddyBearr]

All of the 3 player characters other than Kirby use abilities that are analogous to Kirby's copies abilities. Dedede is pretty much just the hammer ability(with an infinite hammer throw!), and Meta Knight is Sword with a bit of Wing mixed in.

He could always use the Megaton Punch from Super Star.

If you'd allow it, you could probably also get something from the Parasol ability(since Parasol Waddle Dees are a thing)

Whatever he can do, he can do.

I tend to view Zelda using Nayru's Love and etc. as "unique and personal." Personal due to extrapolation, because of the traits (known and presumed) required for it.
1. LoZ character. Check.
2. Magical. Check (She used some magic in OOT)
3. Member or friend of Royal Family (Zelda's Lullaby to receive item). Check.

So.. It doesn't have to be something only they can do, but it good enough similarity. I also tend to give peach a pass on Tennis Racket and Golf Club. "Personal and unique enough." "Semi-personal, she's OG in Mario Sports."

@Sid-cada. Cool stuff. Waddle Dee has undeniable moveset potential then, best if spear. Sorry for barely reading, I'm running on no battery.

 

[Chandeelure]

Waddle Dee is the only possibility for a new Kirby character,not Prince Fluff, Dark Matter or other weird character choice.
And if he is going to be playable (Obviously ), he will use a spear and maybe the Megaton Punch thing, not a parasol.

 

[FalKoopa]

Thread needs more Knuckle Joe.

 

[Vyzor]

I personally believe that the new Smash Bros. doesn't need another Kirby character. It already has the only three worth while characters. There's not really any other characters in the Kirby franchise that I think will bring anything interesting to the new game.

I still don't get why people would want "Bandana Dee". He's so unimportant, that his official name is Waddle Dee.....because he's just a generic enemy. It would be like having the blue Toad from all the New Super Mario Bros. games as a character.

I'm not insulting Kirby characters here by the way, don't get me wrong. I love Kirby games. I just believe all the other characters just aren't worth while/important enough.

 

[SmashShadow]

Thread needs more Knuckle Joe.

You called!

Spoiler

 

[Chandeelure]

I personally believe that the new Smash Bros. doesn't need another Kirby character. It already has the only three worth while characters. There's not really any other characters in the Kirby franchise that I think will bring anything interesting to the new game.

I still don't get why people would want "Bandana Dee". He's so unimportant, that his official name is Waddle Dee.....because he's just a generic enemy. It would be like having the blue Toad from all the New Super Mario Bros. games as a character.

I'm not insulting Kirby characters here by the way, don't get me wrong. I love Kirby games. I just believe all the other characters just aren't worth while/important enough.

Run for your life.

 

[SuperBrawler]

I don't get the point in this thread. If there is even a Kirby rep which is unlikely, it will obviously be Bandana Dee who is most deserving and plausible.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't think Sakurai would see any real potential of a regular enemy using a spear. Probably not worth the inclusion.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Beating a dead horse here: Kirby will probably not get any more characters, but if it did, it would obviously be bandanna dee no question, MK already fills the villain/anti-hero type role.

 

[EddyBearr]

I think Kid Icarus and Kirby would be competing, to an extent, for a new rep, due to Sakurai and all. Palutena is the undeniable leader, and most arguably by a huge margin. For Sakurai to implement a "borderline / barely playable / common enemy / character-prop", he'd have to be willing to risk coming off as extremely biased.

If we got 3 KI reps and 4 Kirby reps (total numbers,) then we might have to call this "Super Sakurai Bros."

 

[Chandeelure]

I think Kid Icarus and Kirby would be competing, to an extent, for a new rep, due to Sakurai and all. Palutena is the undeniable leader, and most arguably by a huge margin. For Sakurai to implement a "borderline / barely playable / common enemy / character-pop", he'd have to be willing to risk coming off as extremely biased.

If we got 3 KI reps and 4 Kirby reps (total numbers,) then we might have to call this "Super Sakurai Bros."

Bandana Dee is not a common enemy, stop saying that because that argument is stupid like the too big argument for Ridley...and why 3 KI reps? The only possible KI newcomer is Palutena.
Super Sakurai Bros? why not Super Miyamoto Bros? because Mario, DK, Zelda, F-Zero, Pikmin and Star Fox.

 

[EddyBearr]

Bandana Dee is not a common enemy,stop saying that,because that argument is stupid like the too big argument for Ridley...and why 3 KI reps? The only possible KI newcomer is Palutena.
Super Sakurai Bros? why not Super Miyamoto Bros? because Mario,DK,Zelda,F-Zero,Pikmin and Star Fox.

Bandana Dee is a common enemy in the same way that Koopa Troopa is. Sometimes playable, usually a "common enemy."

There's a good 4-5 other KI reps that would work, but the only likely one is Palutena.

Because unlike Sakurai, Miyamoto is gargantuan. 7 Sakurai Reps would be insane considering what Sakurai has put out, while even 50% Miyamoto reps wouldn't be too bad. Miyamoto is the source of more than 50% of Nintendo.

 

[Chandeelure]

Bandana Dee is a common enemy in the same way that Koopa Troopa is. Sometimes playable, usually a "common enemy."

There's a good 4-5 other KI reps that would work, but the only likely one is Palutena.

Because unlike Sakurai, Miyamoto is gargantuan. 7 Sakurai Reps would be insane considering what Sakurai has put out, while even 50% Miyamoto reps wouldn't be too bad. Miyamoto is the source of more than 50% of Nintendo.

Bandana Dee is more like than Kamek, you know that magikoopas are normal enemies in Mario games and they look exactly the same as Kamek, but the difference is that Kamek (like Bandana Dee)is an important character for the games because they are like the right hand of the Boss, they have personality and are more powerful that the others of their species.They are not normal enemies.
Well, only Sakurai knows what is better for the Kirby and KI representation.
At least for me Bandana Dee and Palutena are the only characters with chances.

 

[EddyBearr]

Bandana Dee is more like Kamek,you know that magikoopas are normal enemies in Mario games and they look exactly the same as Kamek,but the difference is that Kamek (like Bandana Dee)is an important character for the games because they are like the right hand of the Boss,they have personality and are more powerful that the others of their species.They are not normal enemies.
Well,only Sakurai knows what is better for the Kirby and KI representation.
At least for me Bandana Dee and Palutena,are the only characters with chances.

Eh, feels like pushing it, but I can see how you'd say that. IMO he's kinda borderline (hence why I had so many descriptions in my posts for Waddle Dee's status.)

To be perfectly honest, I think only Palutena has a real chance.

At least I learned a bit about Waddle Dee here.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't think Sakurai would see any real potential of a regular enemy using a spear. Probably not worth the inclusion.

Waddle Dee is not worth the inclusion, but characters like Dr. Kawashima, that Hanafuda guy, and other characters nobody wants are?
Blue, you have to think about what you say.

 

[Bowserlick]

Sakurai is better off going with Palutena or some other retro character that he can design unique moves for.

I think the Kirby franchise is represented well.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Waddle Dee is not worth the inclusion, but characters like Dr. Kawashima, that Hanafuda guy, and other characters nobody wants are?
Blue, you have to think about what you say.

Eh, I just think Waddle Dee doesn't add much diversity to the cast, if it's only a spear-based moveset.

 

[Louie G.]

Eh, I just think Waddle Dee doesn't add much diversity to the cast, if it's only a spear-based moveset.

But it's something we've never seen in Smash, so it's a good concept, right?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I would add Waddle Dee if he actually gets popularly requested at the level of Metaknight.

 

[EddyBearr]

I'd add Waddle Dee if he gets more popular than Mewtwo. I feel 3 is plenty for Kirby.

 

[dimensionsword64]

I think Taranza from Triple Deluxe is an option. He could be unique, and he's recent.

(I made a thread for him, BTW) http://smashboards.com/threads/the-master-of-puppetry-taranza-for-smash.354881/

 

[Sxips]

I think the megaton punch thing can be Bandana Dee's down throw as the animation looks like it can work, or maybe multiple punches or something.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I was just wondering.
If Bandana Dee is so much important, why you can 100% Kirby Returns to Dreamland without even using him, and he is also completely absent from the cutscenes of Kirby Triple Deluxe?
There was room for him in the cutscenes, since when Taranza kidnaps Dedede, there are some spear Dees defending him, but despite this, he is not present, not even when all the characters escape from the place where the final bossfight is. He theorically "is" near the bossfight, since he gives some food to you, but when it comes to relevance to the story of the game, in cutscenes, he is not present at all.
It's like his only real role was that small scene in Kirby Super Star Ultra when he got owned by Kirby, that's pretty weak to me.

Anyway, this thread should not be only about Bandana Dee.
There are:
Galacta Knight, Chef Kawasaki, Daroach, Magolor, Marx, Adeleine, Dynablade, the 3 iconic animal friends, Gooey, Ribbon and even Whispy Woods to talk about, maybe more. It's like Bandana Dee thread 2.0.

P.S.: someone should remove or replace that picture from the OP, it's disturbing.

 

[Leafeon523]

So, how would you guys feel if Galacta Knight was added as a clone of Meta Knight?

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Kirby Fighters was a concept. Kirby Fighters Z was a demo. We need a full Kirby Fighters game at some point, with characters retooled into abilities.

Kirby getting any selected ability
Sword Meta Knight
Hammer Dedede
Spear Bandana Waddle Dee
Newly-retooled-Paint Adeliene
Whip/Yo-Yo Prince Fluff
Spark/High-Jump Kracko
Leaf Whispy Woods Jr.
Wing Baby Dyna Blade
Magic/Bomb/Animal Daroach
Beam/Mirror Magolor
Circus/Ball Marx

So on. And that's not even getting into the helper enemies, Kirby's animal friends, and various other bosses throughout the series. The reason we need this so badly is because most of these Kirby characters will never even be in Smash Bros. and most of us are fully aware of it. Kirby is one of the only series that genuinely needs its own Smash Bros.

Getting more onto topic, Bandana Waddle Dee, Magolor, Daroach, and Prince Fluff all seem to be the next most likely possible characters in that order, though none of them seem extraordinarily necessary in the first place. I'd say Bandana definitely has a shot at this rate, though. Magolor definitely has a chance to appear in a stage or as an assist trophy, which is way better than nothing.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

So, how would you guys feel if Galacta Knight was added as a clone of Meta Knight?

I'd like him, but as a clone, I don't know... I think he has some unique moves that can make him different, but he's kind like Dark Pit. Even if you make him with a different moveset, he would still feel similar to MetaKnight because of his look. Anyway, he has a shield and his weapon is a lance, technically, his fighting style should be a little different than MetaKnight's. Especially the shield, it suggests that his gameplay should be slower and more defensive.

Kirby Fighters was a concept. Kirby Fighters Z was a demo. We need a full Kirby Fighters game at some point, with characters retooled into abilities.

Kirby getting any selected ability
Sword Meta Knight
Hammer Dedede
Spear Bandana Waddle Dee
Newly-retooled-Paint Adeliene
Whip/Yo-Yo Prince Fluff
Spark/High-Jump Kracko
Leaf Whispy Woods Jr.
Wing Baby Dyna Blade
Magic/Bomb/Animal Daroach
Beam/Mirror Magolor
Circus/Ball Marx

So on. And that's not even getting into the helper enemies, Kirby's animal friends, and various other bosses throughout the series. The reason we need this so badly is because most of these Kirby characters will never even be in Smash Bros. and most of us are fully aware of it. Kirby is one of the only series that genuinely needs its own Smash Bros.

Love this concept.
When there are Kirby characters to choice, there are always lots of debates, this is the proof that anyone has their favorite characters and just one is not enough. A game like this would be the perfect occasion to give each fan his favorite character, without any problem of "character slot" or relevance/importance.
Anyway Kirby Fighters isn't like Super Smash Bros, it's more similar to a traditional fighting game, since if you are precise, you can lock your opponent and do several combo hit without him being able to react.
I'd add Cook/Chef Kawasaki in the party, since I think that it's an underrated character and has moveset potential.

Getting more onto topic, Bandana Waddle Dee, Magolor, Daroach, and Prince Fluff all seem to be the next most likely possible characters in that order, though none of them seem extraordinarily necessary in the first place. I'd say Bandana definitely has a shot at this rate, though. Magolor definitely has a chance to appear in a stage or as an assist trophy, which is way better than nothing.

I agree about Bandana Dee: In my opinion, his chances aren't so high (the strongest point of the character is being used in a recent game), but at the same time it's one of the most requested characters, so he's one of the most possible choices for Sakurai. Magolor will probably be a stage hazard, since I'm expecting a Lor Starcutter stage on WiiU, while Daroach is a more complicated thing.
Daroach and Adeleine have similar chances and have the same number of appearances in games (2 games each). They are both cool characters with enormous moveset potential, but I think Adeleine has more chances than him, for the simple fact that she has been in games that are more important than Daroach's. Adeleine's games are 2/6 of the Dream Collection games, while Daroach has only been in a DS game and in a spin-off. Anyway, both of them would be nice additions, I'm a fan of both.
Prince Fluff, I really don't know.