Legend of Zelda The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - NO SPOILERS, USE THE SPOILER THREAD PLEASE

[Xyro77]

Ugh I wish I could just play this game like a normal Zelda. I'm very disappointed so far.

 

[Luigitoilet]

On the opposite spectrum, I suspect it's going to be pretty difficult for me to go back to the normal 3D Zeldas after this.

 

[Spire]

This is the best damn Zelda ever made. I'm at Lanayru Desert now and holy mackerel—guessing this is where Hyrule Castle/Town ends up being established? If you look at the map, Hyrule seems to be rotated counterclockwise 45˚.

 

[Deleted member]

Ugh I wish I could just play this game like a normal Zelda. I'm very disappointed so far.

Damn....really?

This game is freaking incredible. What is to hate?

 

[theeboredone]

I know it's looking really far ahead, but I wonder how Wii U is gonna incorporate the tablet and Wii motion+ together. Two different controllers, two different experiences.

And yeah, the

Spoiler

desert

is clearly the best part of the game.

 

[Zook]

I listened to the CD the game came with on my way home from picking it up. The third track brought me pretty close to tears several times.

 

[kupo15]

Ugh I wish I could just play this game like a normal Zelda. I'm very disappointed so far.

I agree. There is just something about a normal controller that can't be beat IMO. Not to say that there isn't some cool stuff in here though...

 

[etecoon]

still at the first dungeon, just had a minor coma after not sleeping forever <_< on the motion controls, I did notice it getting worse and worse throughout the day, going to try changing batteries even though these aren't even half gone yet, at the end I was constantly getting hit due to dropped sword swings

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Something that could have changed in that regard. Let the game pause when the battery dies or something like that.

 

[cloneofshadow]

Twilight Princess Wii comes out

"Waaahhh we want true motion controls and not this waggle stuff"

*Skyward Sword comes out*

"Waaahhh I don't want to use good motion controls to do everything.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Even after all this time, developers are still trying to figure out what motion controls are good for.
Motion controls for swordplay? Great.
Motion controls for bird flying? Not great.

I finished the opening last night, so now the real questing begins. I'm reserving overall judgment until after I clear the first dungeon, but there are a couple of things that have bothered me:

1) Voice acting- It's time. SS just looks plain silly when characters are moving their mouths and no sound is coming out. Link doesn't have to talk (see Persona 3/4), but come on Nintendo. Voiced dialogue is a part of the AAA gaming experience now.

2) The Camera- Maybe the last 13 years have spoiled me, but I can't believe that the camera system is essentially the same one from OoT. This is less SS's own fault and more a problem with the Wiimote, but I can't believe they couldn't find some sort of workaround to give the player full control of the camera.

Other than those two things, I'm enjoying the game.

Spoiler

Chasing Fia

was alot of fun, and I can't wait to see what else the game has in store.

 

[etecoon]

*Skyward Sword comes out*

"Waaahhh I don't want to use good motion controls to do everything.

these aren't good motion controls, I literally almost got killed by one enemy because link just stood there waving his sword around gently while I was swinging like jimmy fallon.

but being WM+ and being in development for 5 years I'm willing to say the hardware simply isn't capable of it, the idea isn't really bad but the technology just isn't up to par yet, where simple buttons are easier and have been around for a long time

other than the motion controls being wonky and the hand holding going way too far this game is about perfect so far, if new game+ eliminates the hand holding this might become my favorite game in the series. I've spent a fair amount of time harping on the controls but these issues are minor compared to what the game does right, I haven't gotten this feeling from this series since MM, it's everything I would've wanted out of WW or TP

 

[cloneofshadow]

1) Voice acting- It's time. SS just looks plain silly when characters are moving their mouths and no sound is coming out. Link doesn't have to talk (see Persona 3/4), but come on Nintendo. Voiced dialogue is a part of the AAA gaming experience now.

This argument again. Almost every game I have played with a silent protagonist and a voiced cast (Recently God Eater) ends up being boring by the end . Then when it comes to the actual voices they will suck. Notice how most (Not all) JP animes have superior VA compared to there NA counterparts.

 

[cloneofshadow]

while I was swinging like jimmy fallon.

Stopped taking it seriously right here. Just watch this and tell me the controls are unresponsive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_aGjL1bwN0

 

[etecoon]

not watching it, controls are about feel, watching someone else play a game can never tell you whether or not the controls are good. the controls are spotty and many people have had these complaints, deal with it.

as I said though, it hasn't ruined the experience at all, the frequent fi interruptions to explain things everyone already knows are worse. still loving it way more than the gamecube zelda's so far.

 

[cloneofshadow]

not watching it, controls are about feel, watching someone else play a game can never tell you whether or not the controls are good. the controls are spotty and many people have had these complaints, deal with it.

as I said though, it hasn't ruined the experience at all, the frequent fi interruptions to explain things everyone already knows are worse. still loving it way more than the gamecube zelda's so far.

Person say the Controls are Unresponsive

*Links to a video with the controls working perfectly and showing the movement of the player*

Refuses to watch the video and then claims everyone says the controls are unresponsive even when various review sites are praising them.

 

[etecoon]

never said everyone, just a very large number of people

video is hardly evidence to begin with

review sites lmfao

 

[cloneofshadow]

never said everyone, just a very large number of people

video is hardly evidence to begin with

review sites lmfao

A few people trolling on various forums/youtube =/= very large number of people

A video showing accurate Motion Controls with basicly everything in the game is valid evidence.

If it was one review site yes,but when 40+ reviews consist of praising the controls you can't say there all wrong.

I just beat the 3rd dungeon a few hours ago and my controls were perfect a good 98% of the time. That 2 percent of the time was my fault and just me raging over it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Your argument fell apart the moment etecoon said that he was talking about his personal experience.

It could just as well be a fault in his sensorbar or whatever.

Also, P3/P4 had the voiced cast/unvoiced MC and it worked out majestically. I know some Shin Megami Tensei games have the principle and overall it can work out great. Bad American voice actors is also no excuse at all, once again referring to the Persona games here.

 

[The Real Gamer]

ITT: Cloneofhshadow defending SS as if it's his child.

It's okay for people to not like the motion controls, dude. Everyone has their own opinions. Plus hes already stated he's really enjoying the game, and that's all that should matter.

 

[cloneofshadow]

It could just as well be a fault in his sensorbar or whatever.

This game doesn't use the sensor bar at all (except for the Calibration before you select your play files)

Basicly you press Down on the D-Pad and the game puts that position as "the middle of the screen" then it's all Gyroscope from there on.It actually works great.

1 problem thats not really a problem but more as an annoyance. Everytime you use anything that involves pointing at the screen the game uses the position of the WiiMote at the time you pressed as the new "center".

^ So if your aiming down at the ground and you press B to use your slingshot the game will recongnise the floor as the "center" so you have to recenter with the D-pad. If you don't the item will go all haywire. Just make sure you pointing at the screen everytime your using an item before you pull it out.

 

[etecoon]

I actually find that kinda handy because the recalibrate button is mapped to calling fi out too <_< much less of a hassle to just whip out an item real fast when you want to recalibrate

I'm liking how there are sidequests and just generally a lot of reason to muddle around doing stuff instead of just going dungeon to dungeon, I haven't even advanced the main story for a while now, I'm just exploring and talking to NPCs a lot

 

[theeboredone]

Woot, we got our first Zelda meat rider.

It's silly to say motion controls work 100% of the time. Personally, speaking, I have a 95% success rate, though that's a bit different when you're in "panic" mode and ganged up, camera botches on you, and your HP starts declining.

And I don't know why people hate on VAs in terms of quality. Yes I've played my share of terrible JRPGs with bad VA, but Atlus in general has proved people wrong in that department. I personally liked the voices in FA3 (Liam Neeson) and New Vegas (Zach Levi.) I know Skyrim also had some award winning actors do VAs as well.

And the ultimate cinematic experience for gaming, Uncharted 3 has some nice VA's as well.

Point being, it's a shot in the dark, but Nintendo can pull it off.

 

[kupo15]

You guys really need to think more critically about how games are programmed

I agree 100% with etecoon on the controls. Mine have been spotty especially the jab. A skulltulah almost killed me because the thrust just wouldn't come out. I agree that the video doesn't really provide proof about the spotty controls we are experiencing. Some things I had no problems with like multi slashing Ghirahem and spin attacks seem responsive. Maybe you are one of those ppl who are really getting into the game by standing up and pretending you are actually swinging the sword, cloneofshadow. Maybe that is why you find it not a problem. But there are gamers like me who don't prefer that type of control because it feels less immersive and responsive than buttons. For one thing there is no physical feedback which is very important! The controllers job is supposed to be invisible and waggling everywhere is not that.

Twilight Princess Wii comes out

"Waaahhh we want true motion controls and not this waggle stuff"

*Skyward Sword comes out*

"Waaahhh I don't want to use good motion controls to do everything.

SS is still a bit off of 1:1 and tbh, it is only marginally better than TPs sword play. In fact, SS is covering up the fact that it still is "waggle stuff." The only thing different is that it can sense your slashing direction. That's it! Even though it does that, it doesn't feel 1:1 because it still is a waggle triggered action. This isn't what I thought we were getting.

Difference between SS's FAKE 1:1 vs SS w/ REAL 1:1:​

SS's FAKE 1:1
-The gamer swings, THEN
-The wii calculates how you swung using "Starting points" and "ending points", THEN
-Link does a pre-programmed sword swing in a straight line between those two points

SS w/ REAL 1:1 (how it should work)
-The gamer swings, THEN
-The wii calculates how you swung using "a frame by frame keypoints as reference"
-Link swings exactly with the gamer​

The important concept to understand is this, PRE-PROGRAMMED. In the SS's fake version, the act feels like its in two steps and not one because the swing uses only two reference points, start and end. The gamer swings a motion then watches (feels) that action being repeated onscreen like a bad mime. In the Real 1:1, the gamer experiences his motion being directly performed onscreen because the swing uses and infinite number of keyframes. (not infinite but you get the point) Compare the current SS "1:1 swordplay" with real 1:1 found in the SS and in other forms of gaming. The difference should be so obvious:

List of Real 1:1
-Moving SS's bug net around (not actually catching things)
-Moving SS's sword around for the eye puzzles
-Disney World's motion games in "Innovations" in Epcot(?)
-Those silly "shadow games" you find in malls where the game is projected on the floor

Here is how SS should have programmed the sword. Think back to OOT/MM the "infinite sword glitch." Now imagine having that sword glitch, in SS, attached to how the bug net movement is programmed. Now we need something to trigger the sword hitbox otherwise you would be able to do damage by simply caressing something. This is where the technology of WM+ fails to be capable of true 1:1 (based on how the WM+ feels playing the game) If the WM+ IS capable of what I am about to say then Nintendo simply doesn't know how to program 1:1. The game needs to be able to constantly read how fast the WM+ is moving in the players' hand (WM+ can do this as confirmed by bug net mechanics) and when that velocity exceeds a certain threshold, activate the sword hitbox. When it goes below the threshold, deactivate the sword hitbox.

Do you see the difference? Its taking a digital medium and forcing it to feel like its analog. Its the difference between a dimmer light switch and an on/off switch. Do you now see how SS's sword play isn't "good motion controls" like you say they are, cloneofshadow? And do you now see that SS's sword is virtually the exact same as TP?

With how the tech is now, I think basing the game around it is just silly.

 

[cloneofshadow]

^ Wall o Text Needs a tl;dr

Anyways with real 1:1 it would be EZ mode and you could just waggle (Jimmy Fallon) you're way through the game with ease. Not to mention the large amount of coding needed.

 

[kupo15]

^ Wall o Text Needs a tl;dr

Wow seriously? Its not like the formatted makes it tough to read and its good info. But you want a TL;DR. Fine.

SS sword mechanics is not 1:1
SS sword mechanics is exactly the same as TP
You need to learn to understand what is actually happening in the game instead of what you think is happening.

Then you will not be another ignorant, stupid gamer that says stupid things like "SS has better motion controls than TP" and that "SS does not have waggle stuff" when in fact 5 years later it hasn't gotten damn bit better.

Anyways with real 1:1 it would be EZ mode and you could just waggle (Jimmy Fallon) you're way through the game with ease. Not to mention the large amount of coding needed.

EZ mode? Wtf are you talking about? God forbid that games should have good controls. Yea, your right, great games are made from challenge due to bad controls. I guess that makes Ghost Busters for the NES the ideal game. Get ready everyone, we should go back to phone style controllers.

And I seriously doubt a large amount of code is necessary to make the sword better. The technology can already read and perform true 1:1 in SS; it just doesn't do anything with that information, however. You would know if you read my above post.

 

[etecoon]

I prefer it when difficulty comes from intelligent enemies doing a lot of damage, not the game giving me poor control over my own character

 

[kupo15]

I prefer it when difficulty comes from intelligent enemies doing a lot of damage, not the game giving me poor control over my own character

QTF

10chars

 

[cloneofshadow]

I prefer it when difficulty comes from intelligent enemies doing a lot of damage, not the game giving me poor control over my own character

It's not the games fault you can't beat a Bokoblin

 

[Luigitoilet]

Blah, more boring controls talk.

I'm uh, still not having any problems at all. Everything works perfect. Thrust works perfect. Swinging around a lot in different directions works perfect. Switching items is perfect once I memorize their spots in the item wheel. I feel like a total badass. I spent 20 minutes stabbing pumpkins from different angles and launching them. The controls are not 10/10 but the way some of you are acting I have to wonder if you are working with faulty hardware.

Anyways, that's boring to talk about and this page is making me depressed so I'm of to go play some more.

edit: one thing I don't like is how the equip/unequp item is the same button. I keep trying to launch the slingshot with B.

 

[cloneofshadow]

EZ mode? Wtf are you talking about? God forbid that games should have good controls. Yea, your right, great games are made from challenge due to bad controls. I guess that makes Ghost Busters for the NES the ideal game. Get ready everyone, we should go back to phone style controllers.

1:1 controls with waggling = Everything dies with no challenge

Just look how Jimmy Fallon owned that Stalfos in a few seconds via waggle.

 

[etecoon]

Just look how Jimmy Fallon owned that Stalfos in a few seconds via waggle.

so obviously the solution is to make the controls less responsive

brilliant

 

[ZIO]

I have experienced no problems with the motion controls. They fit my playstyle.

I see no reason to change them based off these experiences.


And there needs to be Voice Acting in Zelda about as much as Master Chief needs to remove his helmet, Mario needs to be mature, and MW3 needs to not be like its predecessors.

 

[Luigitoilet]

SS does not need voice acting. What it needs is less dialogue and more visual emoting.

 

[etecoon]

I think it could use less visual emoting, it's weird watching the characters' lips move when they aren't actually saying anything...

less dialogue for sure though, especially fi giving advice or text that you see multiple times still not being skippable

 

[ZIO]

Less dialog yes.


Visual communication/emotion I can deal with. I find it part of the charm that Zelda is.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I think it could use less visual emoting, it's weird watching the characters' lips move when they aren't actually saying anything...

less dialogue for sure though, especially fi giving advice or text that you see multiple times still not being skippable

that's not what emoting is.

I'm talking about the facial expressions and body language, not that they are moving their mouths.

 

[theeboredone]

Well if they can maintain the lore, and increase the depth of characterization and story elements while removing a bunch of reading text, I'd be interested. Seeing characters move their lips, while nothing comes out annoys me way too much. Just keep their lips sealed, while I read plz.

It's hard to blame the user for messing up on controls when it's being reported by several people that things don't work out all the time.

Also, to counter true 1:1 sword motions, how about increase the enemy AI and make it more punishing to simply spam your way through vs analyzing your opponent's patterns?

 

[Glöwworm]

I think it would be fine if they talked gibberish much like Midna did in TP. They're talking, but we just can't understand them. But even then, I don't think there needs to be voice acting. More emoting? Sure.

 

[Jam Stunna]

It's 1000 times more awesome playing this game with my son