The MetaGame Collection Thread ~Approaching Options (nondatewise) ~

[Raiken]

I can't .. really describe my style of play that well.

I guess i'm a little more on the offensive side, but not with characters with superior or threatening range (Olimar, marth, DK... learned the hard way just how much range DK actually has >_>) I tend to approach more than i should, but that only proves i'm a bit more offensive than defensive.

Recently noticed i dont use BAS that often, but when i do, it really helps my defensive game since i'm just a naturally offensive player. I can play defensively, but am noticeably more aggresive with my defense in general.

The main thing i've noticed about my style of play that i've actually never noticed with anyone else's is how i like to dodge in the air. I'll charge an aura sphere and do a turnaround with it, and it changes my trajectory pretty significantly. Almost always leaves me with a good amount of room to land safely, and opponents seem pretty hard pressed to try and attack me again before i land. Sometimes if i time it right i'll also charge it in their face lol : P
Try not to use it TOO much though, because it can be somewhat dangerous at times.

Overall, i guess my style leans more towards offensive, but i'm kind of all over the place, lol. More of the "action-reaction" type of play, don't always have a set idea of what i'm going to do.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GG098j...eature=related
^^^
1:49+

Lucario shone wave bouncing, by Side-B and Neutral B.
Milln also is a Huge fan of this.
And yes the guy kills himself, heh laugh it off.
-t2

That looks amazingly usefull D: got to practice it...

 

[Milln]

I've said it before. Aura Sphere is what Lucario is about. It's a spacer, it's an annoyance, it's a killer, it's a blocker, it's a tricker. Aura Sphere is effin' amazing. Use to make the opponent do something else than what they were originally going to do at that moment, putting you at a good position since you've thought a half second longer than they have. Use to it halt advances after you whiffed an attack. Use it to trick people, especially those with reflectors or absorbers, into doing something you want them to do. Use it to gain a point. =D

Lucario players need to stop whimping out on people that have Reflectors/Absorbers. Seriously. Who cares? Instead of firing blindly, shoot 'em off SMART. PREPARE for it to get reflected. Don't shoot spheres from across the screen. Nearly Full Spheres come into play HEAVILY against Reflector/Absorber characters due to the fantastic trick that becomes available at NF Charge.

Force Palm Grab(sup ted) is fantastic and deserves to see more use than what it currently does. The use it sees at the moment is only in chaingrabs, and this is disheartening, especially since it's such a powerful tool. If all you perform it for is for chains, then it's always fresh, right? How often do you grab? Right. Replace every 1 out of 4 grabs with a Force Palm Grab and you'll do way more damage with equal, possibly even better spacing since it puts them in the air. If you+them are at a moderate percentage (In the hundreds is a safe bet) then you could even get a Star KO or Off-The-Side KO. THE MOVE KOS. RELIABLY. I've said --this-- before, too. I've gotten a myriad of kills that I firmly believe I could not have gotten any other way at that moment based on how my opponent was acting. If they're expecting a dash grab, you have the upper hand because they'll spotdodge and since FPGrab is longer, if you use it at the peak distance, you'll grab them out of the startup frames of the spotdoge, if they did it at all!

It does a lot of percent, too, by the way. maxes out on 15% on its own, I think. You can follow up on it too.

Aura Sphere should be thought of in more situations.
Force Palm Grab should just be overhauled and included into a Lucario's game.

Additionally, I think we all need to stop using Fair for a few days again and look at more things that you can possibly due.

Lucario's ground game is fine, it's just that no one ever uses it. Jabs are great, Tilts are great, Sphere and grabs are great. Ftilt is a fantastic tool that no one uses while everyone complains about Lucario's ground game. I don't see what's bad about it(the ground game).

In Closing: Use Aura Sphere, Use Force Palm Grab, you're all dumb, I love you all.

You can APPROACH with other moves, but fair is definitely the only move in Luc's arsenal that is safe on block. Bair does not hit most characters with it's rising hitbox, so you have to fall into your opponent to land the move, something that can definitely become punishable.

Now to attack Timbuhz:
Fair isn't safe on block vs. average height characters if they react to you with a shield grab quick enough. Fair > Dair definitely annihilates all SHAerials though.

Bair lasts a long time so you can input the move and have the burst out of aura out long before you are level with your opponent and fall onto them there. Not only does it sometimes catch people offguard because they think you missed entirely, but if they do shield it all, you suffer little recovery.

 

[Browny]

Lucario's ground game is fine, it's just that no one ever uses it. Jabs are great, Tilts are great, Sphere and grabs are great. Ftilt is a fantastic tool that no one uses while everyone complains about Lucario's ground game. I don't see what's bad about it(the ground game).

It would be fine if it wasnt outclassed by so many characters. He has nothing like a lucas jab, marth db, wolf fsmash, zelda dtilt. nothing blindingly quick that does a lot of damage or trips often. the only thing above average is the range on his jab and speed of utilt from behind, the rest is average at best when compared to the rest of the cast.

oh and of course fsmash' range...

 

[Timbers]

Now to attack Timbuhz:
Fair isn't safe on block vs. average height characters if they react to you with a shield grab quick enough. Fair > Dair definitely annihilates all SHAerials though.

Bair lasts a long time so you can input the move and have the burst out of aura out long before you are level with your opponent and fall onto them there. Not only does it sometimes catch people offguard because they think you missed entirely, but if they do shield it all, you suffer little recovery.

Fair is safe on block, Milln. Don't throw yourself into their shield, if it's blocked then back off.

Bair is much like fsmash. Luc extends his hurtbox when he uses this move. Unlike fsmash, bair lacks the range, shieldstun, and cooldown that fsmash does. Remember the hitbox goes dead as soon as it hits a shield, while you're still in afterlag and on most occasions, landing lag as well. DDD can grab you out of a blocked bair at perfect spacing, for example. Marth can dolphin slash (and I'd imagine dancing blade too, but it's never been used on me) oos, MK and Snake can ftilt.

The biggest reason bair is pretty bad for approach is that you have to be descending to hit most characters. A rising bair, at it's peak, won't even hit Snake. So you have to really fall on their shield to hit with this. Fair gives you more airtime as you're free to use it whether rising or falling, rising obviously being safer as you have more movement to retreat.

It would be fine if it wasnt outclassed by so many characters. He has nothing like a lucas jab, marth db, wolf fsmash, zelda dtilt. nothing blindingly quick that does a lot of damage or trips often. the only thing above average is the range on his jab and speed of utilt from behind, the rest is average at best when compared to the rest of the cast.

oh and of course fsmash' range...

It's not good, but it's not bad. It's pretty average, which is fine given Luc's airgame and projectile I think. But yes, Luc has one of the slowest jabs in the game. His running speed is pretty blah, poor grab range (forcepalm has more startup than grab. Whether you think it's better than grab or not is irrelevant when needing an effective oos option), Tilts are all punishable on block, etc.

But without his ground game, Luc would also be pretty bad. His ground game isnt really designed to approach nor defend (save for fsmash), but it's more for punishing. Everything lingers. If I had to class Luc's ground game as anything, I'd say it's designed for anti-air. Utilt snatches overhead approaches very well. Ftilt catches shad, airdodges, landing frames, etc. Usmash does this to a lesser extent as well. Fsmash's lingering hitbox punishes characters landing and can easily trap those with poor aerial movement. Jabs have an exceptionally good range, both vertically and horizontally. Dtilt catches airdodge to landing frames well with it's long hitbox extending through Lucario, popping them back in the air.

Hope that made sense.

 

[Milln]

the only thing that would hit Lucario at a perfectly spaced Bair distance, would be Snake's Ftilt.

I take that back, that's a guess. I can't test right now, i'm playing Fable 2. >,>

 

[tedward2000]

Alright guys, I was worried that something like this would happen.

Nothing.

So, im going to move the discussion to something else. Like FP and DT. So....
yea...
-t2

 

[Timbers]

forcepalm grab is good, but you have to be aware of who you're using it against and what kind of opponent you're playing against.

Some characters get some weird landing lag where they crouch too low for you to grab them with the forcepalm, making you whiff. I've had this happen with character such as Pikachu, Kirby, Squirtle, Olimar. This weird crouch animation can come from hitting them into the air with jab1 or jab2.

Characters with fast nairs or jabs can also punish you for trying to interrupt your jabs with a somewhat laggy move. Peach, Ness, MK, Sheik are good examples of this.

To top it off, you might be facing an opponent where they're heavy on spotdodging your jabs incase a followup comes up, in which case you're best off going for a grab if you decide to cancel the jabs, as it's much faster and gives less time for the opponent to dodge you.

I still don't like DT. It's capable of getting past slower projectiles but it also leaves you vulnerable if you happen to be within their attack range after the DT.

 

[supergamer001]

I only throw DT in once in a while to keep them on their toes about it but I take every measure to make sure it works so I don't get grabbed/*****.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

I think that DT could be devastating when you are both high percents and your opponent is getting predictable. I think we all should DT MOAR! I want 3-5 successful DT's every match. Should be used rarely to prevent your opponents from predicting it.

They (Ninjalink?) discovered how to cancel AS charge in to DT. Just throwing that out there. There's a thread on it somewhere in here.

DT is scary to an opponent. That's a good thing. Intimidation = mindgames = good.

 

[Greenpoe]

DT is good for moves with a slight (but noticable) startup, like Lucas' up-smash. It's great against Olimar's or Ness' forward B, too.

 

[h4rdcor3]

In my matches last night I found out that a FP could be a great combo starter. I had a Snake at 70% and he was popped up to the perfect height to start an areal combo. I also used this against a Marth and even a meta.

I also pulled a few areal FP when recovering (on accident) and was able to knock some ledge gaurders back enough to for a safe recovery onto the stage. It also made them think twice about coming up to the ledge. Just a few moar mindgames.


DT, as an attack, i think is useless. I think i've only pulled one or two off successfully in the past months. It just has way too much start up lag and is pretty easy to block.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Common knowledge that I just thought I'd put out there for the sake of the thread:

jab>jab>FP grab>moar FP grabs> grab>pummel>dthrow>FairNair/Uair is Lucario's longest and most evil combo ever.

Disclaimer: Not a true combo.

FP grab can also go into FP grab > fair> nair >jab > jab <FP grab> whatever. I've seen it, but I haven't actually done it to anyone (LAG JOHNS).

Both FP grab and DT can kill when you and your opponent are somewhere near 100% each (depending on position ofc)

 

[tedward2000]

I blame nothing again.

Alright fine, well take this from another direction.

Why Don't we use FP or FPG for that matter.
I know I don't or not nearly what It can be used for. Hell when I get back to playing it I'll start using it more.

What I'm asking is, Why dont we use it?
-t2

 

[Greenpoe]

I blame nothing again.

Alright fine, well take this from another direction.

Why Don't we use FP or FPG for that matter.
I know I don't or not nearly what It can be used for. Hell when I get back to playing it I'll start using it more.

What I'm asking is, Why dont we use it?
-t2

Force Palm-flame is pretty terrible. I keep trying to find a decent use for it, and the only good use would be as your falling to the ground, if they're too far away to hit with an aerial, but even then there are probably better options, and it can probably be punished.

Force Palm-grab has so much more end-lag than a regular grab, but I like it for turn-around out-of-shield grabs.

 

[Ilucamy]

So you're suggesting instead "Why should we use it", "Why shouldn't we use it"?

Here the answer: Unless you hit with the grab, it has horrendous startup and cooldown lag. The attack itself isn't that great dealing terrible knockback and measly damage. VERY easily punishable. It's kinda like ZSS's side-b, if you're going to use it, go for the sweetspot.

FP grab is great, low lag on both ends, high damage, high knockback, easily chains at lower percentages. The only setback is the low grab range if the grab misses, the flame might protect you though.

Analysis for FP: Easily punishable, but the grab is great, if you're going to use it, you have to play close-quarters making it the perfect move for OFFENSIVE Lucario's. DEFENSIVES should stay away from this move as it requires getting into your opponents space, something you generally don't want to do.

DT: Risky, but if it works, it pays off big time. I think the potential for this move is high if we can master it. This is great for getting to projectile spammers especially those slow moving ones and TL's boomerang. This is great for slow smashes with big startup lag. Good for shielding yourself during recovery. This move should be used sparingly. If you're playing against Olimar or TL, this move will work to your advantage more often. One thing I've been wanting to try is punish recoveries that do damage much like Marth uses it. If you see them starting their recovery move (Space animals especially) stay on the stage and reverse DT (you can do normal if on FD or Yoshi's island (brawl)) I think that we should study the uses of doing it offstage such as how to do it safely and be able to actually get the hit in without getting too far off the stage.

Analysis for DT: Risky once again, but the payoff is great and is pretty safe if you get it off. If you miss though, you're screwed. This move should be used against predictable/slow characters on an OFFENSIVE Lucario in order to get off the kill. This move should be used to punish telegraphed attacks by DEFENSIVE Lucarios, just make sure that you get the timing and prediction down.

 

[Greenpoe]

DT: Risky, but if it works, it pays off big time. I think the potential for this move is high if we can master it. This is great for getting to projectile spammers especially those slow moving ones and TL's boomerang. This is great for slow smashes with big startup lag. Good for shielding yourself during recovery. This move should be used sparingly. If you're playing against Olimar or TL, this move will work to your advantage more often. One thing I've been wanting to try is punish recoveries that do damage much like Marth uses it. If you see them starting their recovery move (Space animals especially) stay on the stage and reverse DT (you can do normal if on FD or Yoshi's island (brawl)) I think that we should study the uses of doing it offstage such as how to do it safely and be able to actually get the hit in without getting too far off the stage.

I don't think punishing recoveries would work, since using DT drops you some in the air. DT should work well against those moves that are usually hard to punish, but predictable (G&W bair approach, G&W key, etc.(

 

[XienZo]

I don't think punishing recoveries would work, since using DT drops you some in the air. DT should work well against those moves that are usually hard to punish, but predictable (G&W bair approach, G&W key, etc.(

Its reversed, so you start on the edge, they hit you, and you attack from the center of the stage. Except on FD and Yoshi's, you can wallcling if you aim it coming towards the stage, but thats not my definition of punishing.

 

[TK Wolf]

I'm often on the lookout for a FPG, though I go for throws more often. I think the best times to look for FPGs are early and late in your opponent's life. Early for a chain, and late for a kill. I don't see myself using it in the middle of the opponent's stock more than once, because I have a hard time landing it, and if it's gonna hit, it better be fresh to get that KO!

On top of that, you don't get to flush your attack-buffer with pummel attacks, so instead of pushing out 3-5 hits, you push one.

One question about FPG and grabbing. What frame does your grab, and your FPG come out on? And does FPG have more horizontal range?

 

[Ilucamy]

Like I said (or maybe I forgot to say XD) My idea for using DT as a punishing move is still in the works. I've yet to have time to test it. I'll try to find out if it works on anybody, or if it does, who it works on. I think we should talk about the stale move queue next cause going for the grab to pummel isn't always safe when you need it to be.

 

[Fizzle]

One question about FPG and grabbing. What frame does your grab, and your FPG come out on? And does FPG have more horizontal range?

As far as I know, FP grab has a little more horizontal range than regular grab. I think regular grab is faster than FP grab, but I'd like to know the frame specifics also.

FP grab is an awesome move, but it comes with a lot of risk. Whiff it and your opponent gets a free smash, grab, whatever. It's best to use OOS or out of a jab.

I don't use DT, like, ever. Even though a DT at full aura is a surprise kill, the risk is too great at that percent unless you're sure it will work. Besides, you could always just shield/spotdodge the attack and use another move. Fsmash kills at 80 some at full aura.

 

[Greenpoe]

I think we should talk about the stale move queue next cause going for the grab to pummel isn't always safe when you need it to be.

How's that? If they get out, you can usually just follow up with AAA (except maybe MK can d-smash out of it...but I don't think so). The next topic should be more underrated moves IMO, like...d-smash! It has some good uses (deceptive range, quick/powerful, rarely used->always fresh, dash attack->d-smash, etc.)

 

[Milln]

I'm often on the lookout for a FPG, though I go for throws more often. I think the best times to look for FPGs are early and late in your opponent's life. Early for a chain, and late for a kill. I don't see myself using it in the middle of the opponent's stock more than once, because I have a hard time landing it, and if it's gonna hit, it better be fresh to get that KO!

On top of that, you don't get to flush your attack-buffer with pummel attacks, so instead of pushing out 3-5 hits, you push one.

One question about FPG and grabbing. What frame does your grab, and your FPG come out on? And does FPG have more horizontal range?

Pups knows what's up.


I think I saw some data earlier. Grab is 5 or something. FPGrab is 7 or something. I'm most likely wrong.

 

[Ilucamy]

How's that? If they get out, you can usually just follow up with AAA (except maybe MK can d-smash out of it...but I don't think so). The next topic should be more underrated moves IMO, like...d-smash! It has some good uses (deceptive range, quick/powerful, rarely used->always fresh, dash attack->d-smash, etc.)

I mean actually getting them in the grab is risky if they get out it's even worse might as well throw them to stay safe.

I use d-smash a lot actually, it's a really generic d-smash though so it doesn't need much discussion. The stale move queue is important though I think we should make like "zones" for where we should use the moves, like f-smash is only for >100% or advice like "try to get fair as stale as possible" maybe things like which moves should be kept for killing/gimping and which shouldn't. I know for a fact that some moves are pretty underlooked kill moves (even though they are kinda bad).

Perfect example is u-tilt: We normally use it and never think of it as a kill move, but if you hit with a weak dash attack and buffer the u-tilt, it'll be inescapable and since dash attack isn't affected by aura, it can combo and even kill at high percentages. Then again, the percents are actually really high so maybe it is useless after all

Maybe we should talk about survival, the basis of all Lucario play, maybe make a DI guide and put in some specifics for certain characters fundamental moves (add it to the matchup guide)

 

[Milln]

utilt kills at a percent to where they should be dead by something else already. XD

Force Palm Grab is just as risky as grabbing. Initially, anyway. You have a larger grab box so it's actually more likely you'll get the grab off. The only drawback is if they spotdodge you and even then there's a chance that the Flame might hit them on their coming-back frames. If they shield it, then yeah, you get grabbed or OOS'd by something quick, but other than that there's no real difference between a missed FPGrab and a missed Grab.

 

[Timbers]

One question about FPG and grabbing. What frame does your grab, and your FPG come out on? And does FPG have more horizontal range?

Grab is 6. Forcepalm is like 10? I can't remember. FPG has more range yes.

Force Palm Grab is just as risky as grabbing. Initially, anyway. You have a larger grab box so it's actually more likely you'll get the grab off. The only drawback is if they spotdodge you and even then there's a chance that the Flame might hit them on their coming-back frames. If they shield it, then yeah, you get grabbed or OOS'd by something quick, but other than that there's no real difference between a missed FPGrab and a missed Grab.

Grab should be used more often only because it's quicker startup, which basically means you're more guaranteed the grab when trying to punish oos. When trying to use grab offensively however, you're as vulnerable to punishment as a whiffed forcepalm grab, the only difference is the degree of punishment.

You're going to have to really bare with me on this, as I forget the numbers offhand, but flame comes out on like frame 20, and you're stuck in afterlag until frame 52 I believe.

So 32 frames of afterlag. Grab is 22 frames of afterlag.

So if you whiff with forcepalm, you're vulnerable for 10 additional frames.

Don't take the numbers seriously, just know that there is a considerable amount of afterlag on forcepalm in contrast to grab. I don't need numbers to tell you what your eyes can already see.

 

[TK Wolf]

I don't need numbers to tell you what your eyes can already see.

Yes you do. FOR THE LOVE OF SCIENCE!!! x3

 

[Silvran]

However, as was said earlier, if you whiff the FP grab, if they've spot dodged or something (not too uncommon), you might nail them with the flame, which can buy you some time (aka the lag time). Also, if I recall correctly, the very tip of the flame can trip, which could lead to a setup if you're other attack whiffs or they roll into you... who knows?

 

[TK Wolf]

In my experiences with FP, the flame rarely protects me. When I whiff FPG I usually get grabbed/hit before the flame comes out.

 

[Ilucamy]

The flame will probably protect you as long as you don't majorly screw up your spacing. If you're in range for the grab, to dodge, they would have to either spotdodge, jump, or move away.

The most common is spot dodging. As we know, if they spotdodge, they'll get nailed by the flame and you'll be safe.

If they move away, most of the time they won't have the time to come back and punish you, though there are some people that predict you going for the grab and will know exactly what to do, this way, you PROBABLY won't get punished, but theres no guarantee.

If they jump, you WILL get punished if they're a competent player, Though jumping is usually not a very common defense towards the FP grab unless they totally see it coming.

The moral of the story is, don't be predictable with your FP grab or else you'll get punished. Also, if they have a projectile, you'll get punished as well.

Now to go check that the unchecked information I just posted is actually true

 

[RMAC]

DT is a great move if you can land it. It makes you more unpredictable, has good KO potential if you're able to get it to hit, and keeps your opponent guessing.

 

[Timbers]

Flame will not protect. If they've spotdodged the grab they've spotdodged the flame.

edit: and obviously that was exaggeration, but seriously like almost everytime if they spotdodge the grab they'll spotdodge the flame.

Say they're able to react on frame 3 of your forcepalm, hypothetically speaking to say that you're trying to FPG them out of jab cancels. They spotdodge, spotdodge comes out on frame 5 of your forcepalm. On frame 9 the forcepalm grab whiffs. Most characters have 18 frames of invincibility on their spotdodge, with 5 frames of afterlag.

So their spotdodge starts when you're on frame 5 of forcepalm, and they will become vulnerable again on frame 24 of your forcepalm.

If flame hits on 20 (it might be 22, I honestly can't remember) then they've spotdodged both the grab and the flame successfully. The only way they could spotdodge the grab and not the flame is if they spotdodged on like, the same frame you started the FPG.

 

[Milln]

Flame will not protect. If they've spotdodged the grab they've spotdodged the flame.

Not in every instance. I can remember quite a large number of occasions where my FPGrab was spotdodged, but the flame came out when they came back from their spotdodge, knocking them away keeping me safe. Yes, there is a certain time that, if you're unfortunate enough to initiate your FPGrab at, both attacks will miss; but this isn't a surefire thing.

 

[Timbers]

I edited my post in regards to that.

The only way you'd really be able to get them with flame and not grab is if they started their spotdodge before you started forcepalm, or like on the same frame.

A way to put this in perspective is if someone were to spotdodge Luc's grab the same frame Luc attempts to grab. They spotdodge and are vulnerable until frame 25. Luc is vulnerable until frame 28. Very few things can punish 3 frames of lag, and iirc the fastest grab is 6 frames. You'd technically be able to avoid being punished by a grab IF they spotdodged on the same frame that Lucario attempted the grab. Realistically speaking if they're spotdodging, it's because they read through your grab and will likely spotdodge a good deal before you grab, and you can still be punished by like grabs and stuff.

BUT it's only hypothetical. If you have people spotdodging prematurely, forcepalm could be ideal to catch them out of spotdodge with flame. It's not something I will attempt (trying to get the flame to hit on 5 frames of vulnerability is left too much to chance, especially considering that you're also hoping that you read their spotdodge), but people are more than welcome to play around with it.

 

[Milln]

But the point is, is that there is a chance that the flame will still hit them on their vulnerability frames.

 

[Timbers]

response :

A way to put this in perspective is if someone were to spotdodge Luc's grab the same frame Luc attempts to grab. They spotdodge and are vulnerable until frame 25. Luc is vulnerable until frame 28. Very few things can punish 3 frames of lag, and iirc the fastest grab is 6 frames. You'd technically be able to avoid being punished by a grab IF they spotdodged on the same frame that Lucario attempted the grab. Realistically speaking if they're spotdodging, it's because they read through your grab and will likely spotdodge a good deal before you grab, and you can still be punished by like grabs and stuff.

BUT it's only hypothetical. If you have people spotdodging prematurely, forcepalm could be ideal to catch them out of spotdodge with flame. It's not something I will attempt (trying to get the flame to hit on 5 frames of vulnerability is left too much to chance, especially considering that you're also hoping that you read their spotdodge), but people are more than welcome to play around with it.

If flame hits on frame 20/22, you'd have to hope for their spotdodge to happen within a 3/5 frame window. It's just not something that I would put my money on.

 

[Milln]

It's not something you intend to happen. You're GOING for the grab. If you miss with the grab, you can HOPE they get hit by the flame because it's actually possible.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

FP flame usually works to punish if they spotdodged the grab part.

 

[Timbers]

If you're talking about jab cancels, refer to my post on last page.

If you're referring to punishing oos with FPG, refer to my post on last page.

You have to actually delay your forcepalm in most cases to hit with the flame and not the grab. Obviously don't intentionally delay your forcepalm, but that's usually how you get the flame to hit vulnerability.

 

[Milln]

If you're talking about jab cancels, refer to my post on last page.

If you're referring to punishing oos with FPG, refer to my post on last page.

You have to actually delay your forcepalm in most cases to hit with the flame and not the grab. Obviously don't intentionally delay your forcepalm, but that's usually how you get the flame to hit vulnerability.

Hey let's talk about something else before I flip out and yell at everyone for being ignorant and stubborn and pessimistic.

How about that Uair? Tail hits, amirite?

 

[Timbers]

Hey let's talk about something else before I flip out and yell at everyone for being ignorant and stubborn and pessimistic.

You're too easy.

How about that Uair? Tail hits, amirite?

***** airdodges.