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The MetaGame Collection Thread ~Approaching Options (nondatewise) ~
- Thread starter tedward2000
- Start date
You mean without, right? Lucario can recover by saving his second jump, just DI'ing toward the stage, using dair's to throw off any special timing they might have had, then double jumping onto the stage and airdodging by their attack, or Double Team can bring you back to the stage, too...but I wonder if it's possible to reverse your aura-sphere direction as soon as you start charging, and rather than tossing it, just DI toward the stage while you start charging, and since charging holds your DI direction, you'll still go that way, then toss it for a slight bonus boost toward the stage, but I dunno how effective that would be.
Raiken
Smash Cadet
^
Using the aura sphere charge that way is something i do relatively often just to space myself. It's very, very easy to perform as well. Never do actually try using it for the sole purpose of recovering, though, doesn't really sound all that safe.
Don't have anything to say about u-tilt other than that it's great at what it does, especially roll punishing >_>
Dsmash.. on the other hand, i don't see why people think it's unreliable. I tend to hit with it more than the majority of the time, but that could just be me. All i really use it for is punishing.
Using the aura sphere charge that way is something i do relatively often just to space myself. It's very, very easy to perform as well. Never do actually try using it for the sole purpose of recovering, though, doesn't really sound all that safe.
Don't have anything to say about u-tilt other than that it's great at what it does, especially roll punishing >_>
Dsmash.. on the other hand, i don't see why people think it's unreliable. I tend to hit with it more than the majority of the time, but that could just be me. All i really use it for is punishing.
TK Wolf
Smash Ace
A few months back, people were saying to just remove dsmash from your game completely, but I think it's good to use it sparingly now. There are openings for it, and a few select scenarios where it's more appropriate than fsmash.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
This might turn into what the Marth boards did about dsmash. For the longest time, only fsmash was deemed good (and usmash). But they realized there was merit to dsmash as well, and I think with Lucario, we could find one too.
Timbers
check me out
Marth has a ton more range on his dsmash though, and first hit comes out on like..frame 8 or something? I'd certainly love to have an 8 frame kllmove for Lucario that killed at like 110 when tipped lol.
Dsmash is still blah. It is used sparingly, but only against moves with such incredible afterlag or your opponent has entered some pattern where it's possible to use such a laggy move to punish them. Example being like...Ike fsmash, Ness PKT2, telegraphed airdodges, etc.
Dsmash really really really needed a lingering hitbox. It's still far from useful. Any move can do what dsmash does, it's just easier to use dsmash in the rare situations that dsmash should be used.
Drizzt6195
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Dwsmash has good start up lag and no range unlike Fsmash.
I used to use it alot but it's really missing some range much better of Utilt for punishing rollers and Fsmash for laggy attacks.
But it sill has a few rare uses if ure facing away from the opponent after his afterlag
I used to use it alot but it's really missing some range much better of Utilt for punishing rollers and Fsmash for laggy attacks.
But it sill has a few rare uses if ure facing away from the opponent after his afterlag
tedward2000
Smash Champion
Would the ducking motion from Dsmash have any use?
Like for example, Rob uses his laser, you Dsmash, avoiding it and hitting ROB.
Oh and thread updated. XD (finally)
-t2
Like for example, Rob uses his laser, you Dsmash, avoiding it and hitting ROB.
Oh and thread updated. XD (finally)
-t2
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
I seem to recall this happening to me once or twice.
Timbers
check me out
The burner from ROB's laser should still hit you at that distance.
h4rdcor3
Smash Journeyman
I use dsmash against diddy's more often than anyone else. When ever i happen to pick up a banana, usually they will charge at you. I'll just throw it at my feet and start a dsmash. Most the time they will slip on the nanner and I release my smash.
Great idea...f-smashing into bananas has made me slip too many times. x.x
TK Wolf
Smash Ace
I think that would be too situational, IMO. And you'd have to time it 18 frames before impact, roughly. At that point, you're as effective as using DT.
Dsmash actually got me 2 KOs at the tourney I went to yesterday. Normally I'd use utilt instead of dsmash, but when dsmash can get a kill and there's an opening, or I predict something well enough in advance, I'll give it a shot. It has good knockback and sends the opponent at a great angle. I never attempted to use it more than 2-3 times in each match I played, but it's now something I keep in my mind.
Drizzt6195
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Try to do it at least once or twice per match so ur opponents thinks about it and not dt or Fsmash
tedward2000
Smash Champion
*cough*
Bump.....
Ok well, after a couple of days. Time for the discussion to go else where.
This weeks topic!!!
Spamming of AS.
-the good
-the bad
-the ugly
go.
-t2
Bump.....
Ok well, after a couple of days. Time for the discussion to go else where.
This weeks topic!!!
Spamming of AS.
-the good
-the bad
-the ugly
go.
-t2
Drizzt6195
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
You're off stage youre opponent is waiting for you on stage, charge and throw it at them.
Or Fair->AS
Or you put him in the air you have your AS waiting for him either he dodges it or takes a Fsmash in the face
Or Fair->AS
Or you put him in the air you have your AS waiting for him either he dodges it or takes a Fsmash in the face
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Ironically, I find it good against characters who can reflect projectiles, because some will take their good time to reflect it and make themselves vulnerable, allowing you to approach more easily.
TK Wolf
Smash Ace
With reflector/absorb characters, I really like doing some of the following:
1) Hold onto a charged AS and watch them squirm nervously, eventually firing off an unneeded absorb/reflect. (But if they're open, I'll still use the AS)
2) Hold onto an almost fully charged AS, then get ready to fire AS but shield-cancel the charge and run in while they're open.
1) Hold onto a charged AS and watch them squirm nervously, eventually firing off an unneeded absorb/reflect. (But if they're open, I'll still use the AS)
2) Hold onto an almost fully charged AS, then get ready to fire AS but shield-cancel the charge and run in while they're open.
Aura Sphere is hot.
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
BAS works well for brickwalling the opponent, similar to Fsmash. They both have good range. Multiple times I've shot 2-3 BAS's and an Fsmash and they all hit! Oddly, the opponent keeps trying to approach in most cases. And we're not talking noobs here, it's all about making it unpredicable. You have to know when it's appropriate, but BAS works very well as a waller. Throw in some BAS spam every now and then to trip 'em up.
I rarely charge an AS to it's full, usually as far as can be charged without blinking. This way I can AS chargeburn someone behind me (although I usually Utilt), and I can play mindgames with them. Fully and near-fully charged AS work well for spamming (at higher damages) and for punishing bad spacing or laggy moves that you avoid. AS rules!
I rarely charge an AS to it's full, usually as far as can be charged without blinking. This way I can AS chargeburn someone behind me (although I usually Utilt), and I can play mindgames with them. Fully and near-fully charged AS work well for spamming (at higher damages) and for punishing bad spacing or laggy moves that you avoid. AS rules!
h4rdcor3
Smash Journeyman
SH BAS aimed at head level i've found allows you to cut the distance between you and your opponent. putting it above ground level limits their options. Basically a shield, spot dodge or full jump are their only options, a shield or spot dodge can hopefully be punished. If they go areal, well you're lucario, just do what he does best in the air.
Aerial forward smash? How'd you figure out how to do that. =o
TK Wolf
Smash Ace
That would be so friggin awesome. Lucario for god tier.
Ilucamy
Smash Journeyman
K, I just went to a tourney (nothing big, just with some people from school) and I used Lucario almost the whole time. Here's what I found
1. People don't know how to punish fair followups
2. People suck at recovering while I'm shooting Auraspheres at them
3. Charging smashes is a funny mindgame
4. DT is kinda useless
5. AS charge>grab is really good. I pulled it off 3 times in a match.
6. Diddy is really really really really really really really really really really really really annoying.
Personally, I never use BAS. I just don't think it's that great. The lag is kinda big and there's not much payoff unless you're at high percents. I tend to just put the charge in very annoying spots. I also got a few B-sticked AS off. They don't expect an attack when you're jumping away, so you can B-stick one and it'll probably get them.
K, I gotta go so I can't finish this thought. Oh and I got 3rd place which I think is pretty good considering how bad I usually am.
1. People don't know how to punish fair followups
2. People suck at recovering while I'm shooting Auraspheres at them
3. Charging smashes is a funny mindgame
4. DT is kinda useless
5. AS charge>grab is really good. I pulled it off 3 times in a match.
6. Diddy is really really really really really really really really really really really really annoying.
Personally, I never use BAS. I just don't think it's that great. The lag is kinda big and there's not much payoff unless you're at high percents. I tend to just put the charge in very annoying spots. I also got a few B-sticked AS off. They don't expect an attack when you're jumping away, so you can B-stick one and it'll probably get them.
K, I gotta go so I can't finish this thought. Oh and I got 3rd place which I think is pretty good considering how bad I usually am.
Drizzt6195
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Dt is a killer move!! How many times im on my last stock and him too and i kill him with Dt
h4rdcor3
Smash Journeyman
Well that is what he does best, and would be ridiculously awesome. But then again, his areal game is top tier as well.
Well, I suppose bair is close enough. Azen calls it his "mini-fsmash." lol
I don't have a whole lot to say about AS. It's just something you have to learn for yourself when you become a Luc player. AS is one of your primary killing moves, and it's important to know the best times to fire. You have make every charged AS count.
BAS I don't find myself using very much anymore. Not that I'm embarrassed to spam or anything, but rather it's very easy to outprioritize and wade through. People are getting really good at powershielding now.
I think we should hit oos options next. Because Lucario's oos is less than stellar at best, I see a lot of players struggling with punishing attacks... even though Lucario is not the best punisher around. As much as we all love fsmash, using fsmash oos just won't work, folks.
Lucario has a fine OOS game. SH-fair, grab, FP and up-tilt are solid options (FP is slightly risky, but I love the range!).
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I sometimes like dsmash oos, and ftilt to add onto the list.
ForcePalm is not a good out of shield option. With the what? 4-5 frames it takes to let down your shield, then combined with the 12 frames to start up forcepalm if you're perfect, they still have 17+frames to punish you. In other words, unless you just shielded Ike's Fsmash, you're probably not going to pull that off.
SH-fair isn't that great of an option either against most characters.
...
WHAT?
At least Ike Fsmash oos kills.
Ftilt isn't that safe, either, but meh.
Our only realistic options against foes who aren't named "Ike" are jab, grab, and utilt.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Just remember, if you add "mindgames" to your strategy, just about everything you post can be validated as "useful" and "tactical". You could say "I liek mudkeps", and right next to it, "mindgames", and yep, ppl will say, "bravo, brilliant".
edit:
10sarcasms/sardonic isms
Just saying that I should have added "mindgames" next to my post.
Ftilt is good if they want to perfect shield after an attack, and tend to lean in that direction, because we all know about how Lucario gets screwed if utilt is blocked.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
If you guys get this locked by being stupid I'm sending you to hell.
This may be true for facing MK, where the wrong OOS option could get you d-smashed, but against the rest of the cast, FP OOS works fine, obviously you shouldn't force it, but there definitely are times when there's an opening for FP.
Look at this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202204&highlight=data
Most characters have fairly quick jabs or tilts that can hit you long before you can get an FP, ftilt, or a smash off. FP oos is viable only on very laggy attacks.
Like Kita said, his only good oos options are utilt to the rear (pray that it's not blocked), jab (which isn't even that fast), and grab (which isn't so effective due to Luc's **** poor grab range).
Seriously, folks, Lucario's moveset is not meant for this type of play. Play smart, play safe, and if worst comes to worst just roll away and reset. Don't force yourself to fight close-range if you're fighting a superior character.
EDIT: Dair oos is pretty good too. I use that quite a bit.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Then again, you don't usually shield a jab in the first place, because they are likely to switch to grab, then ur screwed. You usually shield tilts, tho occasionally, jabs are ok to shield.
I'm still going with ftilt being ok, so long as they aren't staying shielded, even then, against a shield, it's better than utilt. Man, I wish Lucario had as good an oos game as Marth (DS is too good).
TK Wolf
Smash Ace
Seriously? Unless they're practically going through you, you'd have to get to a reasonable height (1/2 Luc's height maybe) before it has enough horizontal range to connect. And that takes extra time.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
This discussion is a good reason WHY we need to get into OOS for the next topic. Too much difference, and the topic hasn't been touched on much.