The Myth of the Elitist Competitives

[plasmatorture]

Dude, stop twisting the definition of the word "elitist" to meet your own needs.
By your definition, anyone who argues against anything is apparently an Elitist.

The definition of elitism:

1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.a. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
b. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Moving on...

The people you called Elitist do not despise Casual players or casual play, therefore they are not Elitist. They do not believe that competitive players are superior to casuals. They do not believe that casuals are inherently stupid or lower than themselves or some other crap like that. They DO however favor their own style of play over casual play (this is a matter of choice, not elitism) and get annoyed when idiots come along and criticize them for playing the way they do.

Where did I ever call ANYONE elitist?
I never did.

I said some people, including you, posted something that made you SEEM elitist at ONE POINT.
SEEMIGN elitist and BEING elitist are not the same thing.

There is nothing Elitist about despising idiocy are arguing against idiots. If idiots were not opposed by both casuals AND competitives around here, there would be more of them.

But outright flaming people, which is blatantly elevating yourself to a position of being above the rules (ie a position fo being an elite member of the community), is not okay and IS elitst.

You are just throwing the word Elitist at anyone who feels strongly about their position, and that is unreasonable. Yuna, Mookie, and myself will not tell you how to play and do not feel that your style of play is wrong. Therefore, we are not Elitist.

I don't think any of you are elitist.

When you post things like:

You sir are the worst kind of scrub. You are also a very poor troll. You don't understand anything about competitive Smash, but you come here anyway talking about how we ruined the game or some other bulls***.

Guess what loser, we're going to ruin Brawl for you too.

YOU SURE GIVE OFF AN ELITIST ATTITUDE.

Does that mean you are elitist?

No.

You're just giving the trolls fuel to claim you are by acting that way occasionally.

 

[Yuna]

plasmatorture: Quote a single instance of me acting elitist in this thread.

 

[OrlanduEX]

Go plasmatorture! *cough*

He's right, a bunch of people are just getting pissed off at certain people's attitudes at times. You can sound 'elitist' at times but not necessarily be that way all the time. Self-control and respect, people.

@OrlanduEX: He isn't calling anyone 'elitist', did you read the post or just zoom in on the names?

Fine. Define "sounding elitist". How do Mookie and I who posted calmly and logically "sound elitist"? I think Plasma simply has the definition of Elitist wrong. Neither Mookie, myself, or even Yuna have posted anything in this thread that is elitist.

Actually, the boards was made by casuals for casuals because no one took smash seriously as a tourney game. Traditional Fighter tourney people turned their nose at it thinking it had no depth. The site became more of a competitive board because some of the casuals turned competitive. The competitive brought more people. Most of the casuals dropped out while competitive people kept bringing people here due to getting tourney information and discoveries of strats and game engine stuff.

.

Dude. Ask the mods around here how Smash Boards was founded. Ask the people who have been here since the beginning like Azen.

Smash boards was created by competitively minded players who saw the potential in Smash as a competitive fighting game and wanted to improve themselves by sharing knowledge and experiences with other like minded players. This is no casual fan site and has never been.

The main reason that Smash Boards is open to all posters is so that newer competitively minded players can share in the wealth of knowledge that has been accumulated over the years. Smash Boards became a site for casual players as well as competitive ones AFTER the fact.

 

[Holygrail]

I have a good explanation of how competitive gamers (elitist) are trusted as elitists; it is not because those who believe the competitivists ar thought to be "entirely" the best out there, not the best of some specified skill in the game, nor is it believed that there are limits of any kind relative (or compared to) other's skills. The best, even though there are players skilled in more aspects of games than the referred gamer.

People believe that the best players are perfectly unbeatable. It is far less false and more senseless than true. The competivitist can use the fact that people think that they are absolutely true players; make him say that he's the best, and use flaw skilled to attempt to convince any gamer that they know Nintendo or any other gaming company well as if he met Mario's creator, Mr. Miyamoto; "In Japan."

Using Popular demand from the victims who believe him, the competivist use already used, uncreative graphics that are use to get himself attention by making prophices, rumors or false game pictures that shows that he uses godlike charm to look credible as the ones listening to gamers listen to him like he is a person working full time for Nintendo.

Causal gamers are victimized by the "elitists" who bully, taunt, insult or otherwise make the gamers think he has no knowledge of games (like smash bros) and make the gamers agree, thus humiliating the person who is in fact smarter than the elitist. The elitist uses negative taunting to keep taking advantage of people, despite being nothing but con-artists and bullies. Elitistssing their status mainly because they want to be more than popular, so they disregard relative skill in other gamers so they can look perfect.

The elitists fear losing a good status that they do not want to give up. They go to every website about a game they are good at. They'll do anything they think will work to stay alive, as they will make smart people look bad.

Not everyone understands or has played games where things are different from its sequal or were made by someone else. Gamers don't even know who Ice Climbers, Star Fox, Metroid, or more than they know about Mario or Zelda games. The elitists usually use this to their advantage to be believed.

This is against the myth. If you can read all of this, the Myth is mostly far from being true.

 

[flyinfilipino]

plasmatorture: Quote a single instance of me acting elitist in this thread.

How about just flat-out sounding arrogant? ie., this entire thread. I'm not trying to call you out for being 'elitist' in anyway, I just think you have a terrible attitude sometimes. You're just inviting crap like this by starting threads like this.

 

[plasmatorture]

plasmatorture: Quote a single instance of me acting elitist in this thread.

Not this thread, but the thread I linked to:

Who are you and why should I no tflame you into infinity?

I won't, though, for users with even a smidge of intelligence should be able to tell you're a crackpot.

Now, for the more sensible users:
SSB64 -> Brawl -> SSBM. The throws, broken infinite combos (some of which were impossible to DI out of) and lack of a meteor cancel (hello, Falcon's Dair!) made for a horribly broken game where a single mistake would literally cost you the entire stock.

Should be obvious how that's an elitist attitude being presented.

Saying "Who are you and why should I not flame you into infinity?" is first of all implying that if this poster was a "someone" then you would flame them, which is an elitist attitude.

You further go on to say that this poster doesn't even have a smidgen of intelligence and isn't sensible.

Sure, the poster probably isn't very smart. But most of his post was valid and to write it off as unintelligent rambling because he's a nobody is an elitist thing to do.


Granted, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were just saying that because of the anti-tournament attitude he gave off, and I perfectly understand that you don't actually think he's a moron for preferring casual play over competitive or one game over the other, only that he's a moron to come here and insinuate that competitive players suck.

BUT
To write off his entire opinion as stupidity instead of the only stupid thing he said was the wrong way to go about it if you don't want to accidently show yourself seeming elitist possibly.





EDIT:

Fine. Define "sounding elitist". How do Mookie and I who posted calmly and logically "sound elitist"? I think Plasma simply has the definition of Elitist wrong. Neither Mookie, myself, or even Yuna have posted anything in this thread that is elitist.

Sounding elitist?
Posting flames and other things that break the rules to say, in effect, "Me and my people are better than you. You're wrong. You're stupid. Get out."
Additionally, saying things bluntly like "Casual players suck compared to us" is elitist. Is it true? Yes. Is it elitist? Yes.

...

I think you and Yuna might of missed that when I said "this thread" I was linking to another thread and not talking about the thread we're currently in?

 

[NES n00b]

Fine. Define "sounding elitist". How do Mookie and I who posted calmly and logically "sound elitist"? I think Plasma simply has the definition of Elitist wrong. Neither Mookie, myself, or even Yuna have posted anything in this thread that is elitist.



Dude. Ask the mods around here how Smash Boards was founded. Ask the people who have been here since the beginning like Azen.

Smash boards was created by competitively minded players who saw the potential in Smash as a competitive fighting game and wanted to improve themselves by sharing knowledge and experiences with other like minded players. This is no casual fan site and has never been.

The main reason that Smash Boards is open to all posters is so that newer competitively minded players can share in the wealth of knowledge that has been accumulated over the years. Smash Boards became a site for casual players as well as competitive ones AFTER the fact.

Smashboards was founded by Gideon around 2001 when he was what. . . . 14 years old. Melee's tourney scene didn't start till like 2002 and each progressive year was big strides in it becoming more of what it was today. You know those backroomers with the green name (not purple for that is the smash backroom)? All of them are casuals and are just friends with Gideon who is indeed casual. They are pretty much the only casuals left from way back then though some old timers like Kilroy, Yoshi, and others have come back since Brawl was announced. The fact is, that it BECAME the biggest site for competitive smash. It didn't start out that way. Way back when, it didn't have a tourney section. It was till a long while (like 2003 2004?) that they actually made one after it was clear people were going to tournies people posted on this site.

I know people from back in the old days. XD

 

[Yuna]

How about just flat-out sounding arrogant? ie., this entire thread. I'm not trying to call you out for being 'elitist' in anyway, I just think you have a terrible attitude sometimes. You're just inviting crap like this by starting threads like this.

Arrogance =/= Elitist

It's also not as much arrogance as witty sarcasm, a biting tone and a *****y attitude against people who I feel deserve it (like if they "threw the first stone"). Is it the perfect way to behave? Hardly.

Is it elitist? No.

 

[OrlanduEX]

I have a good explanation of how competitive gamers (elitist) are trusted as elitists; it is not because those who believe the competitivists ar thought to be "entirely" the best out there, not the best of some specified skill in the game, nor is it believed that there are limits of any kind relative (or compared to) other's skills. The best, even though there are players skilled in more aspects of games than the referred gamer.

People believe that the best players are perfectly unbeatable. It is far less false and more senseless than true. The competivitist can use the fact that people think that they are absolutely true players; make him say that he's the best, and use flaw skilled to attempt to convince any gamer that they know Nintendo or any other gaming company well as if he met Mario's creator, Mr. Miyamoto; "In Japan."

Using Popular demand from the victims who believe him, the competivist use already used, uncreative graphics that are use to get himself attention by making prophices, rumors or false game pictures that shows that he uses godlike charm to look credible as the ones listening to gamers listen to him like he is a person working full time for Nintendo.

Causal gamers are victimized by the "elitists" who bully, taunt, insult or otherwise make the gamers think he has no knowledge of games (like smash bros) and make the gamers agree, thus humiliating the person who is in fact smarter than the elitist. The elitist uses negative taunting to keep taking advantage of people, despite being nothing but con-artists and bullies. Elitistssing their status mainly because they want to be more than popular, so they disregard relative skill in other gamers so they can look perfect.

The elitists fear losing a good status that they do not want to give up. They go to every website about a game they are good at. They'll do anything they think will work to stay alive, as they will make smart people look bad.

Not everyone understands or has played games where things are different from its sequal or were made by someone else. Gamers don't even know who Ice Climbers, Star Fox, Metroid, or more than they know about Mario or Zelda games. The elitists usually use this to their advantage to be believed.

This is against the myth. If you can read all of this, the Myth is mostly far from being true.

Wow. You, sir, have failed in quite a few ways, and if that "sounds elitist", then too bad.

First of all, you establish that all competitive players are Elitists. WTF, man? If I choose to better myself at the game and play to win, I also feel that I am somehow superior to others who play differently? I don't follow your logic there.

Then you say that "People believe that the best players are perfectly unbeatable".
A) This is utterly untrue
B) Poor grammar killed the rest of that paragraph. I'm not sure what other points you were trying to make there...

The following paragraph makes little sense as well. I'll just skip over it...

Now you say "Causal gamers are victimized by the 'elitists' etc". So you mean to suggest that all the arguments, all the negativity that is spread across the internet is caused by Competitive players who despise casuals? You mean to tell me that casual players never come around here and criticize competitive players for the way they play without good reason? Again, I'm not following your logic here at all.

Next you claim "The elitists fear losing a good status that they do not want to give up". Poor grammar has disguised the meaning of this sentence I think, but I guess what you're trying to say is that us "Elitist" spread our vile doctrine of competitive play across the web because we are afraid of disappearing or losing or...something. Some clarification on this particular point would be much obliged. As it is now, it is laughable.

Your next paragraph says something about prior knowledge of Nintendo games. What in the world does this have to do with Competitive players or Elitism, pray tell?

Summary: Your post utterly failed to disprove the notion that the Competitive Elitist is but a myth. You'll need a MUCH greater understanding of what it means to be a competitive player or an elitist to support your points.

@ Plasma: Did I sound "Elitist" here too? Am I wrong for arguing against such faulty logic and blatant ignorance as I have percieved here?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Arrogance =/= Elitist

It's also not as much arrogance as witty sarcasm, a biting tone and a *****y attitude against people who I feel deserve it (like if they "threw the first stone"). Is it the perfect way to behave? Hardly.

Is it elitist? No.

Good, we agreed.

 

[Yuna]

Not this thread, but the thread I linked to:

I see.

Should be obvious how that's an elitist attitude being presented.

Not really, read below.

Saying "Who are you and why should I not flame you into infinity?" is first of all implying that if this poster was a "someone" then you would flame them, which is an elitist attitude.

"Who are you" is short for "Who the hell are you and why should we believe anything you say, especially when it's really stupid and outlandish?" and I only say it to people who say really, really stupid things.

Did you even read the original post of that thread? He's an obvious troll (that or he's severely intellectually challenged).

Flaming is not an elitist attitude. Flaming is a very natural thing when you completely disagree with someone and view them not to just be uneducated (because no one can know everything) but to be truly moronic. Did you read the original post (the one I quoted)?

It's very stupid.

You further go on to say that this poster doesn't even have a smidgen of intelligence and isn't sensible.

This is elitist how? This is insulting their intelligence. I'm probably going to sound elitist in your ear now, please I urge you to please look up the definition of "Elitist" on http://www.dictionary.com or Webster-Miriam's dictionary.

Sure, the poster probably isn't very smart. But most of his post was valid and to write it off as unintelligent rambling because he's a nobody is an elitist thing to do.

No it wasn't. I made generalizations, assumptions and there were outright lies. It's not that he's a nobody. It's that he's an idiot.

Granted, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were just saying that because of the anti-tournament attitude he gave off, and I perfectly understand that you don't actually think he's a moron for preferring casual play over competitive or one game over the other, only that he's a moron to come here and insinuate that competitive players suck.

That's exactly it. He's a Scrub. He said a whole ton of scrubby things. He insulted the entire Competitive Smash Community. And you're using my response to this idiot as an example of me being Elitist?

Also, that's not the first time he's said something really, really stupid. And it's not the first time I've replied to his really, really stupid posts either. I was more civil last time, though. But this time, he just went too far.

To write off his entire opinion as stupidity instead of the only stupid thing he said was the wrong way to go about it if you don't want to accidently show yourself seeming elitist possibly.

Writing off anyone's opinion ever = Elitist?

I wrote off his opinion because the majority of his post was bovine manure. The rest was exaggerations, untrue lies or things that are very subjective. Almost nothing in his post held any substance, whatsoever. And no real discussion could be held on the things he said that actually make sense and are true.

Sounding elitist?
Posting flames and other things that break the rules to say, in effect, "Me and my people are better than you. You're wrong. You're stupid. Get out."
Additionally, saying things bluntly like "Casual players suck compared to us" is elitist. Is it true? Yes. Is it elitist? Yes.

1) I've flamed. I've never flamed someone for being a worse player than I have.
2) I've never said that Casual players suck compared to "my homies". I have, however, pointed out how the majority of Competitive Players will always beat the majority of all Casual players because of how differently we view the game and how much time and dedication we spend on it.

I think you and Yuna might of missed that when I said "this thread" I was linking to another thread and not talking about the thread we're currently in?

Too bad that wasn't a very good example, either. It was a good example of a troll or possibly just an idiot posting something cataclysmically stupid and people reaction to such stupidity.

Elitism is not thinking someone is wrong or telling them they are. Please look the definition up before replying further in this thread (as you've so wrongfully accused a lot of people of elitism on false grounds already).

 

[Yuna]

Good, we agreed.

Did you just agree on that I'm not an elitist?

You do know that "=/=" means "does not equal", right?

 

[Wiseguy]

Arrogance =/= Elitist

It's also not as much arrogance as witty sarcasm, a biting tone and a *****y attitude against people who I feel deserve it (like if they "threw the first stone"). Is it the perfect way to behave? Hardly.

Is it elitist? No.

I suspect that is a nuance lost on the people who call you guys "elitists." The reason people unknowlegable about Smash use that label is because they see self proclaimed "competitive players" as arrogant.

If being called names on the internet bothers you that much, you can either grow thicker skin or start acting more respectful to "casual plyers" who talk about things they don't understand.

 

[M.K]

Some people MEAN the right things, but display them in an arrogant manner. It could be someone's first time on the forums, asking a really "general" question (ex. Is wavedashing in Brawl? Who will you pick first)....and everyone won't even give them a chance. It's a little disheartening, really. Smash World Forums has been tainted with elitism, arrogance, and improper grammer >.<.

I can't blame everyone but not myself, however. I have had my share of arrogant comments, and I hope everyone can admit to their own. THAT is what makes you a good person.

 

[OrlanduEX]

Sounding elitist?
Posting flames and other things that break the rules to say, in effect, "Me and my people are better than you. You're wrong. You're stupid. Get out."
Additionally, saying things bluntly like "Casual players suck compared to us" is elitist. Is it true? Yes. Is it elitist? Yes.
I think you and Yuna might of missed that when I said "this thread" I was linking to another thread and not talking about the thread we're currently in?

The post of mine that you linked too was not elitist by your very definition. Yea I called the guy a loser, but I never said that I or anyone else was better than him. I said that "we're going to ruin Brawl for you too", meaning that competitive players are going to develop a competitive scene for Brawl regardless of how casuals hate it. I've never said that "Casuals suck", but I have said that Competitive players will almost always beat casual players in a match, with or without advanced techs. That is a fact.

Smashboards was founded by Gideon around 2001 when he was what. . . . 14 years old. Melee's tourney scene didn't start till like 2002 and each progressive year was big strides in it becoming more of what it was today. You know those backroomers with the green name (not purple for that is the smash backroom)? All of them are casuals and are just friends with Gideon who is indeed casual. They are pretty much the only casuals left from way back then though some old timers like Kilroy, Yoshi, and others have come back since Brawl was announced. The fact is, that it BECAME the biggest site for competitive smash. It didn't start out that way. Way back when, it didn't have a tourney section. It was till a long while (like 2003 2004?) that they actually made one after it was clear people were going to tournies people posted on this site.

I know people from back in the old days. XD

I guess I was wrong. I understand now that it was casual players that founded Smash Boards, but I think that anyone would have to agree that it has become a primarily competitive site. I think it follows also that it is wrong for anyone to disparage other players for the way they choose to play, regardless of who founded the site.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Did you just agree on that I'm not an elitist?

You do know that "=/=" means "does not equal", right?

Yes, I agreed that you're not an elitist, because I never sought to call you anything like that. If you read my post, I said that. I simply think that you come off as very arrogant a lot of the time and that's what rubs people the wrong way enough to try to call you elitist. And yes, if you must know, I know what the symbol means.

 

[Yuna]

If being called names on the internet bothers you that much, you can either grow thicker skin or start acting more respectful to "casual plyers" who talk about things they don't understand.

I never flame or behave overly badly towards people who simply talk about things they don't understand. In those cases, I simply point out why they're wrong (in my eyes) and ask them to please read up on the things they should have read up about before making their argument.

It's when people are stupid that I give up all pretenses and go all out ("The B*tch is Back!").

Them: "Brawl will be as competitive as Melee! Because I say so!"
Me: "Brawl is, at the moment, not as competitive as Melee because of X and Y. And even if you give a chicken 100 years, it will never be able to become as smart as a 10 yearold (human). Brawl can not magically gain depth it does not have. So it's a fallacy to state that 'given enough time', it will be as competitive as Melee."

Them: "Brawl will be as competitive as Melee! The tourneyidiots just don't want it to be because they want their precious wavedash and are afraid of losing to Casual players now!"
Me: "You are wrong and this is why! Please stop trolling!"

Something like that.

 

[NeoZ]

He made one of the best Sonic combo videos out there:

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=kvWcPzbCsDU

So he can be called "Competitive".

Now, trolling quotes:
From this thread: http://zonaforo.meristation.com/foros/viewtopic.php?t=987061&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
In spanish, I will be traslating the most insulting and/or trolling parts for you. (bold ones)







Enough proof for you, Yuna??

I've found one. Three to go, if you include the one a few messages over me.

You're first translation was really wrong(it was: the one that can insult does, not the one who wants) and in that link you gave bugball was the one actually saying "Smash without items is still fun", while others said "no random factor=crap=SF+platforms" or "smash is slow and boring without items", "smash without items and the random factor is not smash".
So that example wasn't really helpful, as he also was defending brawl and saying that even if some adv.techs weren't in the game it was still fun and asked people not to complain about the tournament rules.
Yet I'm not sure if bugball is an elitist/troll/jerk/whatever as it's not the first time I heard that he is...

 

[NES n00b]

I guess I was wrong. I understand now that it was casual players that founded Smash Boards, but I think that anyone would have to agree that it has become a primarily competitive site. I think it follows also that it is wrong for anyone to disparage other players for the way they choose to play, regardless of who founded the site.

I agree. It was largely a competitive smash site in 2004 and upward (I think). It wasn't really till Brawl was announced that Casuals came back. When the dojo was announced in May or something was the time when casuals came in droves to the Brawl boards.

Really, this whole thing will be behind us in the end. Casuals will eventually leave (not much left to talk about), accept (if they haven't already), or become competitive (if they were not planning to which I guess you could argue that they were competitive to begin with but whatever).

 

[Yuna]

Yes, I agreed that you're not an elitist, because I never sought to call you anything like that. If you read my post, I said that. I simply think that you come off as very arrogant a lot of the time and that's what rubs people the wrong way enough to try to call you elitist. And yes, if you must know, I know what the symbol means.

I could've sworn you called me an Elitist once. But then I was wrong, I guess.

You've also argued against me in a lot of threads so I just assumed you really disliked me something.

 

[M.K]

Some people MEAN the right things, but display them in an arrogant manner. It could be someone's first time on the forums, asking a really "general" question (ex. Is wavedashing in Brawl? Who will you pick first)....and everyone won't even give them a chance. It's a little disheartening, really. Smash World Forums has been tainted with elitism, arrogance, and improper grammer >.<.

I can't blame everyone but not myself, however. I have had my share of arrogant comments, and I hope everyone can admit to their own. THAT is what makes you a good person.

I always get the last post on a page, so I'm reposting >.<

BTW, Yuna, check the Gameplay Brawl>64>Melee Thread, please.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I could've sworn you called me an Elitist once. But then I was wrong, I guess.

You've also argued against me in a lot of threads so I just assumed you really disliked me something.

Nah, I think the only thing we've ever talked about is how awesome the Yoshi's Story Ending song is.

 

[OrlanduEX]

I suspect that is a nuance lost on the people who call you guys "elitists." The reason people unknowlegable about Smash use that label is because they see self proclaimed "competitive players" as arrogant.

If being called names on the internet bothers you that much, you can either grow thicker skin or start acting more respectful to "casual players" who talk about things they don't understand.

This is what gets people pissed. Ignorance is no justification for being an annoying asshat. Why SHOULDN'T we get angry when n00bs come along and criticize us without even understanding what they are arguing against? I'm not saying that it is right to react with flames or disrespect, but it is understandable and expected.

The way I see it, until the mods do something to cut off the torrent of idiocy flowing into Smash Boards, they can't expect us to not respond with ire.

 

[Yuna]

Some people MEAN the right things, but display them in an arrogant manner. It could be someone's first time on the forums, asking a really "general" question (ex. Is wavedashing in Brawl? Who will you pick first)....and everyone won't even give them a chance. It's a little disheartening, really. Smash World Forums has been tainted with elitism, arrogance, and improper grammer >.<.

I can't blame everyone but not myself, however. I have had my share of arrogant comments, and I hope everyone can admit to their own. THAT is what makes you a good person.

You see, very few Competitive players and/or players who've been around for a long time would flame someone like that. We would just tell them to use the search function more, look around in the stickies more, etc.

 

[ptown]

all players who have claimed they are competitive or pro in brawl, suck.

 

[Wiseguy]

I never flame or behave overly badly towards people who simply talk about things they don't understand. In those cases, I simply point out why they're wrong (in my eyes) and ask them to please read up on the things they should have read up about before making their argument.

It's when people are stupid that I give up all pretenses and go all out ("The B*tch is Back!").

Them: "Brawl will be as competitive as Melee! Because I say so!"
Me: "Brawl is, at the moment, not as competitive as Melee because of X and Y. And even if you give a chicken 100 years, it will never be able to become as smart as a 10 yearold (human). Brawl can not magically gain depth it does not have. So it's a fallacy to state that 'given enough time', it will be as competitive as Melee."

Them: "Brawl will be as competitive as Melee! The tourneyidiots just don't want it to be because they want their precious wavedash and are afraid of losing to Casual players now!"
Me: "You are wrong and this is why! Please stop trolling!"

Something like that.

Okay, but I would argue that many of the people who act "stupidly" do so only because they don't know any better, or just like to start flame wars. And as Meta Kirby said, most people (myself included) are guilty of being harsh or arrogant without cause.

I would argue that it's a much better policy to always try and be respectful, even to the people who don't deserve it. If they act unreasonable in spite of the logic presented against them, then any impartial observer will see that. Act arogant, and people will start calling you "elitist."

 

[MookieRah]

I hate how the overall message I'm seeing is this:
"It sucks that there are people that say dumb things that insult everything this site stands for and a large portion of the members of this site, but we have to look out for their feelings and respect their opinions."

Seriously, that is crap. It is. It's a large big steaming pile of crap we have been fed our entire lives. This notion of being politically correct. Anyone who comes into any forum, targets a group of people, and starts spilling out false information based on assumptions and stereotypes is an idiot. They are an idiot. If that isn't being an idiot... what is? That is way more elitist than 90% of the stuff I've been accused of, yet I get railed for being honest with myself, and keeping in touch with the fact that people aren't robots and I'm merely being realistic in regards to flaming.

To sum it up, I respect those that respect others. I do not respect those that do not bother trying to respect anyone.

all players who have claimed they are competitive or pro in brawl, suck.

Ok, for starters, this isn't true. By saying someone sucks, what are you comparing them to? Are you comparing them to the current players of the game, or are you comparing them to how the game is played in the future?

Secondly, there are "self-proclaimed" competitives and pros that simply aren't competitives or pros. These people do fit the bill of what you were saying. If this was your intention with your post then I would agree whole heartedly, although you should have worded it in such a way that you presented your intention without as much opportunities for misinterpretation.

Now, if you are saying that people who really ARE competitive players that are playing Brawl suck, then you either A: are following Hugs logic, which was not meant to be taken this way or B: you don't acknowledge the already obvious skill gaps between the old competitive players of melee and the casual players.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I hate how the overall message I'm seeing is this:
"It sucks that there are people that say dumb things that insult everything this site stands for and a large portion of the members of this site, but we have to look out for their feelings and respect their opinions."

Seriously, that is crap. It is. It's a large big steaming pile of crap we have been fed our entire lives. This notion of being politically correct. Anyone who comes into any forum, targets a group of people, and starts spilling out false information based on assumptions and stereotypes is an idiot. They are an idiot. If that isn't being an idiot... what is? That is way more elitist than 90% of the stuff I've been accused of, yet I get railed for being honest with myself, and keeping in touch with the fact that people aren't robots and I'm merely being realistic in regards to flaming.

To sum it up, I respect those that respect others. I do not respect those that do not bother trying to respect anyone.

If they're not willing to be corrected, you could just ignore those idiots and no harm would be done.

@56k: You changed your entire post!

 

[Wiseguy]

This is what gets people pissed. Ignorance is no justification for being an annoying asshat. Why SHOULDN'T we get angry when n00bs come along and criticize us without even understanding what they are arguing against? I'm not saying that it is right to react with flames or disrespect, but it is understandable and expected.

The way I see it, until the mods do something to cut off the torrent of idiocy flowing into Smash Boards, they can't expect us to not respond with ire.

Welcome to the internet, where the only person's behavior you can control is your own.

It's expected that people will get angry and call each other names, because that's what people do. If you guys are cool with flaming people who act like morons and getting labeled as "Elitists" as a result, then things will stay the same. If you guys want to elevate the discourse on this forum, the buck stops with those who know better.

 

[ptown]

noobs spread lies and hatred.

they're on your boards spreading their lies and hatred right now.

they speak ill about you, your friends, and your family.

 

[MookieRah]

If they're not willing to be corrected, you could just ignore those idiots and no harm would be done.

If it is so easy to ignore things, then why do you and many others like you go around pointing out things like this?

 

[flyinfilipino]

If it is so easy to ignore things, then why do you and many others like you go around pointing out things like this?

Cuz you're not an idiot?

 

[Miharu]

Welcome to the internet, where the only person's behavior you can control is your own.

It's expected that people will get angry and call each other names, because that's what people do. If you guys are cool with flaming people who act like morons and getting labeled as "Elitists" as a result, then things will stay the same. If you guys want to elevate the discourse on this forum, the buck stops with those who know better.

Idealistic, but no, that honestly will have little to no chance of working on the internet.

 

[Yuna]

Welcome to the internet, where the only person's behavior you can control is your own.

It's expected that people will get angry and call each other names, because that's what people do. If you guys are cool with flaming people who act like morons and getting labeled as "Elitists" as a result, then things will stay the same. If you guys want to elevate the discourse on this forum, the buck stops with those who know better.

It's stupid to label someone as an elitist just for being harsh on someone else, especially not when that someone else threw the first stone, said a bunch of stupid things and the 2nd person wrote an eloquent and logical post on why the original person was wrong.

 

[Holygrail]

I am saying that all people does not mean it applies to all who trust in elitists. There are those who want believe that a number of things they want should be in the game. They had no sense on how the character they want or ideas for stages would be fun for the game. They are unaware that they don't know why the would not be decided by Sakurai or Nintendo to be put into the game. The fans don't know how awkward/stupid/foolish or unintelligent it would be to put characters they may not even know about.

And yes, there are competivitist who are not elitists. However, some want to be superior not just by skill, but knowlege on the game itself. They want to be a more credible then as a player,; to they make things uo without enough proof as an attempt to deceive what they would expect everyone to see. Even though
There are those who disaree by spotting flaws or not even believing it, the competivitist does care as long as there are many people who still believe it.

What I was saying is that there are factors that affect this belief. These were just some points I was trying to prove. I was just naming a few that apply to particular situations. I was not adding everything in. There are more factors than what I understand.

Also, try not to think what my last post said was perfect. It was not. It was only a first draft. I understand pranks as much as why people believe things on the net. So if you read this, play some music read this and break it down!

 

[MookieRah]

Cuz you're not an idiot?

Well dangz, you got me thar.

Actually though, if I took that kind of advice I wouldn't have changed some of the people I have, nor would I have changed my views into what they are now. A lot of debates I have with people may start off heated, but over the duration of the back and forth communication we eventually start to see how human we both are, and we relate more to each other, and this sort of mutual respect for each other comes about.

Case in point being the infamous Dyln_Tnga. You guys remembered how he was back in the day. I kept debating with him, and I didn't let up. We hated each other at first. We would go back and forth. Eventually it became the norm, but we kept debating. Over a period of a month or so, I noticed that he started to realize some of the things I was trying to tell him. After one last big fight, we actually came to terms, and he realized that he was in the wrong for a lot of things. He honestly had changed quite significantly. The sad thing is that even though his views had changed, nobody else cared to take notice. He had already been labeled as being an idiot, and so eventually he got tired of trying to convince people that his views had changed.

He wasn't the only one either, but he was the one that opened up the most to this sort of thing. I've had a lot of debates with people that ended up in everyone learning a little bit more about the other and where they came from and why they held the views they did.

 

[flyinfilipino]

@MookieRah: There are some exceptions I guess. He might have been a persistent idiot back then for it become normal for you to both to go back and forth. That kind of thing might end up differently over time. I guess you can't completely judge a book by its cover.

 

[Yuna]

@MookieRah: There are some exceptions I guess. He might have been a persistent idiot back then for it become normal for you to both to go back and forth. That kind of thing might end up differently over time. I guess you can't completely judge a book by its cover.

That's not judging a book by its cover, though.

That's labeling someone for life and never acknowledging their changes. Dylan Tnga wasn't judged by the color of his skin or the way he looked. He was judged for how he acted. If he indeed actually changed and nobody ever acknowledged that he had, then he was judged for his past actions, not by his proverbial cover.

 

[flyinfilipino]

That's not judging a book by its cover, though.

That's labeling someone for life and never acknowledging their changes. Dylan Tnga wasn't judged by the color of his skin or the way he looked. He was judged for how he acted. If he indeed actually changed and nobody ever acknowledged that he had, then he was judged for his past actions, not by his proverbial cover.

In the end, yeah, those people were condemning him for his past actions. But I was talking about before he changed, and people not giving him a chance then. Had MookieRah totally given up on him from the beginning, maybe they might not have eventually seen eye to eye.

V@56k: Very sneeky! But I saw what you did there.