The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[Code Lyon]

I only play Fox for troublesome match-ups--Basically, characters with swords and Lucario.

Doubles, too, but PT is not a good Doubles character.

That being said, I guess one could say I co-main the two now, but, eh.

Fox dittos next tourney in GA you come to son.

 

[hichez50]

I know that lucario as the advantage for the PKT match-up but is it really that bad? Good luck.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I know that lucario as the advantage for the PKT match-up but is it really that bad? Good luck.

It's not so bad. Fighting Lucario is just really, really boring, and with fatigue, it takes even longer, so I decided I'd make it a little more fun for myself by being able to catch his roll and KO him at low percents.

*sigh*

 

[da K.I.D.]

not to mention that guns, do in fact beat swords.

 

[bigman40]

Fighting Lucario is just really, really boring.

Extreme QFT.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

not to mention that guns, do in fact beat swords.

Whenever someone asks me why I picked up Fox, I say, "He's fun, he's fast, and he has a gun."

 

[hichez50]

Well atleast we know that your not a tier *****.

 

[milesg2g]

I just love where Ness is placed

 

[Javon89]

Does Mario have a chance moving up or will he move down next season.

Discuss.

 

[YagamiLight]

Until Mario mains begin attempting to show the world just how good he supposedly is, Mario is going to remain in his disappointing low tier position. I can't personally picture him going higher but, as always, I'm open to surprises.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Does Mario have a chance moving up or will he move down next season.

Discuss.

Down, down, down, down without a new rep. Just Boss and (that other guy who's name I forget, BO X7 or something like that?) aren't cutting it. Potential's there, I doubt it'll ever be tapped into.

 

[YagamiLight]

Every character has some degree of potential left in them. Very few characters (I would say none, actually) have reached a metaphorical "plateau" at all.

That said, you can't keep touting a character's "potential" and leave it at that. Either go out and do something using this "amazing" potential or don't cry when you fall on the tier list, I suppose.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Indeed. I will say that I think Mario and Link have the most potential left untapped in low tiers though, and that I think the EB boys, Yoshi, Samus, and Ike are starting to slow down.

Speaking of Ike: we need that backwards sliding CounterDraw/CounterEruption video sometime soon. I wanna see epic mindgame. ;_;

 

[YagamiLight]

Indeed. I will say that I think Mario and Link have the most potential left untapped in low tiers though, and that I think the EB boys, Yoshi, Samus, and Ike are starting to slow down.

Speaking of Ike: we need that backwards sliding CounterDraw/CounterEruption video sometime soon. I wanna see epic mindgame. ;_;

I'll make a replay of me doing it (although I am so bad at it, haha) and see if I can get a friend to upload it. Stay tuned!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

:D Yays!

Yoshi ain't the only one who can slide around. lol

 

[HeroMystic]

Down, down, down, down without a new rep. Just Boss and (that other guy who's name I forget, BO X7 or something like that?) aren't cutting it. Potential's there, I doubt it'll ever be tapped into.

Urge to rawr rising...

But I won't, because right now it's true.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Urge to rawr rising...

But I won't, because right now it's true.

It's kinda blunt, but think about it.

Think about how long those two have been using Mario.

Now think about how much Mario has changed in tournaments since then. Not stuff discovered on the board but never used in practice, but stuff that actually changed, and has been used successfully in tournaments on a constant basis. You have stuff like screwing over people grabbing the ledge with the cape...but it's not really used. That's potential that isn't, and I doubt will ever be, used. Kinda sad, but it's a case of too much time, for too little results. Somebody can still just throw out a D3 for example and effectively shutdown Mario even with these advancements.

 

[HeroMystic]

Now think about how much Mario has changed in tournaments since then. Not stuff discovered on the board but never used in practice, but stuff that actually changed, and has been used successfully in tournaments on a constant basis. You have stuff like screwing over people grabbing the ledge with the cape...but it's not really used. That's potential that isn't, and I doubt will ever be, used.

Before the Marios go into ATs, they need to first learn Mario's moveset.

Did you know Mario's U-tilt and U-Smash actually beats nearly all aerials that aren't super-disjointed? Did you also know Mario's jab, if sweetspotted, can true combo into D-Smash for 20% damage (1% less than Snake's F-tilt). ATs are worthless if Mario's basic attributes aren't used first.

Besides, Cape Teleport is extremely hard to use. Their hurtbox have to be over the ledge while recovering, and right now it's been proven to only work during ASL.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206631

Besides, I said you were right, but don't go spreading false information as if we haven't been working.

EDIT: Also, I'm beginning to wonder, is Cape Teleport the only AT people know Mario has?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's the most amazing one, thus people know it.

I mean, who else can screw over a guy as he's grabbing the ledge through the invincibility frames? Er...ASL? I'm blanking out on that stands for. >_> <_<

And there is a reason I only talk about Mario when a Mario mainer is around. lol. I knew about the Usmash, had suspicions of the Utilt, did not know about Jab -> Dsmash. What %s does that work at, any %? Because if that's any %, I'm surprised that isn't a staple KOing set-up. Unless it is, and I'm just stupid/behind/forgot.

 

[HeroMystic]

It's the most amazing one, thus people know it.

I mean, who else can screw over a guy as he's grabbing the ledge through the invincibility frames? Er...ASL? I'm blanking out on that stands for. >_> <_<

And there is a reason I only talk about Mario when a Mario mainer is around. lol. I knew about the Usmash, had suspicions of the Utilt, did not know about Jab -> Dsmash. What %s does that work at, any %? Because if that's any %, I'm surprised that isn't a staple KOing set-up. Unless it is, and I'm just stupid/behind/forgot.

Uh... it doesn't cape through the invincibility frames... and ASL = Auto-Snap Ledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v10373amNZY Watch 0:26 and notice how Marth's body is above the ledge. In order for Cape Teleport to work the cape has to hit, and the hitbox isn't wide.

It's also not Jab -> D-Smash. It's Jab-Jab -> D-Smash.

Mario

First Jab
HB1: -2
HB2:
- no action: +4
- aerial action: -2
- air time: 2 frames

Second Jab
HB1: -4
HB2:
- no action: +5
- aerial action: -2
- air time: 3 frames

Second Jab after First Jab
- no action: +7
- air time: 5 frames

The frame data showed here shows that if both jabs connect, Mario has a +7 frame advantage to perform any attack before the opponent can do anything. Legit setups are D-Smash (Frame 5) and F-tilt (Frame 7, have to buffer correctly).

Why isn't this used alot? Because the jab has to be sweetspotted, which is the front of the fist. This means Mario has to space his jabs correctly for this work, and Jabs are typically used as a GTFO move, and F-tilt is better for spacing since it can poke out of grab range and can be used consecutively before the opponent is able to do anything outside of 2-Frame jabs.

 

[Nanaki]

AFAIK, it works at all %'s. Jab-Jab-Dsmash. You also have to buffer the Dsmash, as you only have a 7 frame advantage from the 2nd jab, and only if you sweetspot the 1st jab.

<---- Not a Mario main, so I could be wrong.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Uh... it doesn't cape through the invincibility frames... and ASL = Auto-Snap Ledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v10373amNZY Watch 0:26 and notice how Marth's body is above the ledge. In order for Cape Teleport to work the cape has to hit, and the hitbox isn't wide.

It's also not Jab -> D-Smash. It's Jab-Jab -> D-Smash.



The frame data showed here shows that if both jabs connect, Mario has a +7 frame advantage to perform any attack before the opponent can do anything. Legit setups are D-Smash (Frame 5) and F-tilt (Frame 7, have to buffer correctly).

Why isn't this used alot? Because the jab has to be sweetspotted, which is the front of the fist. This means Mario has to space his jabs correctly for this work, and Jabs are typically used as a GTFO move, and F-tilt is better for spacing since it can poke out of grab range and can be used consecutively before the opponent is able to do anything outside of 2-Frame jabs.

You remind me of myself with Peach. good **** on this dude. need more people like you doing work.

 

[HeroMystic]

I don't want to take any credit for finding any of this out. If anything, I'm more like the "Mom" of the Mario boards.

People find stuff out, I just organize everything, put it in a directory, find ways to apply it in a match, and tell the Mario boards "You need to do this".

And yes, it works at any %. The jabs have fixed knockback.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'm the uncle or in some chases, father of the Peach boards. Maybe we such hook up and ..talk........

All jokes aside I think Mario should be above Yoshi and maybe Ike.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Mario's b moves are too good, lol.

 

[<π]

You remind me of myself with Peach. good **** on this dude. need more people like you doing work.

>: (

Sheik can do the same thing! I've been saying this for months. It helps her kill issue so much. she can combo into nair as well as dsmash and other moves. (grab, dash attack, jab, ftilt, etc.)

 

[Dark.Pch]

>: (

Sheik can do the same thing! I've been saying this for months. It helps her kill issue so much. she can combo into nair as well as dsmash and other moves. (grab, dash attack, jab, ftilt, etc.)

Dude, that is not excatly what I ment when I said that.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Can we discuss him more?

 

[stingers]

n o

 

[Zeratulfenix]

I cant have been the only one to notice that the current 'G' list is made up of the triforce XD

 

[solecalibur]

I cant have been the only one to notice that the current 'G' list is made up of the triforce XD

See post 4 and about the other 100 pages where it is mentioned at least 1 per page

 

[Kitamerby]

I mean, who else can screw over a guy as he's grabbing the ledge through the invincibility frames? Er...ASL? I'm blanking out on that stands for. >_> <_<

Try tossing out Pit's mirror shield as Marth recovers.

 

[smashking420]

EDIT:

Its awesome to see C.F go up two places, the only thing I wish that happened is that Mario went up from
7th to 11th or something, hes getting to the point where he can fair decently with middle lowers or low high chacters, at least in my openion.

But overall, its ALOT better. :D

 

[Javon89]

Wow, 2-3 weeks and we're on the 131st page, I guess we have alot to say about the new tier list.

Zelda is bad, thats my 2 cents

 

[Sinister Slush]

Yoshi actually went up a few ranks... I am glad. He deserved a bit more then what his old spot was. THough he knocked mario down one when I think mario should've gone up by four or three.

 

[hichez50]

Wow, 2-3 weeks and we're on the 131st page, I guess we have alot to say about the new tier list.

Zelda is bad, thats my 2 cents

Zelda suffers from GAW's 1-D metagame sickness. The only problem with zelda is that 8/10 you know what see will do.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Wow, 2-3 weeks and we're on the 131st page, I guess we have alot to say about the new tier list.

Zelda is bad, thats my 2 cents

Well I bet more than half of those posts came from people just coming in and saying something random.

 

[Code Lyon]

And the other half where flames/ and one page was that ganon guy.

 

[Noa.]

Remember the Chuee arguement.

 

[Code Lyon]

Remember the Chuee arguement.

That goes under stupidity/flames.