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The Official Ohio Brawl Power Rankings (11/25/12: NEW RANKINGS UPDATED!)

Carls493

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
924
Location
Columbus, Central Ohio
NNID
Carls493
3DS FC
5000-2571-4495
I am trying to improve, really. What I've been trying to do for a while is learn more MUs with :fox: and see if I can conquer them. Though I can see some flaws with that confidence, especially against :popo: or :sheik:.

The fact that I use Fox at all means that this improving won't be happening as fast or as easily compared to most or all characters above him, but I AM still trying, and I want to try with Fox.

One problem I have is that I don't get to fight every character enough.
 

Carls493

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
924
Location
Columbus, Central Ohio
NNID
Carls493
3DS FC
5000-2571-4495
Yes, MW isn't the strongest region. Must someone point that out every time a rankings occur?.
With the audacity and how common I'm seeing that now, it's almost makes me think it's the worst region. I don't believe that, but I can't say it's the best region, either.

Or is this just a situation where our region is just an overblown punching bag for the others, where we get a BIT more criticism than we deserve just because we aren't at the top of things?
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
For a detailed discussion on how Midwest realizes that we're the weakest region in the United States for Brawl, please see every other thread in the Midwest forum.

Less talking, more improvement please.

/notdirectedatanyoneinparticular
 

Ridley Silverlake

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
112
Location
Radiata Castle
These sissys banning :metaknight: at their regionals and playing around on weird stages for years probably had a hand in it too I'm sure. Come to think of it...Michigan probably is better since they actually woke up and smelled the conservative coffee.
 

Ralph Cecil

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
2,416
Location
Somewhere in KY QQQQQQQQQQ
NNID
RalphCecil
3DS FC
4098-4850-8033
For a detailed discussion on how Midwest realizes that we're the weakest region in the United States for Brawl, please see every other thread in the Midwest forum.

Less talking, more improvement please.

/notdirectedatanyoneinparticular
I feel this was directed at me. ಠ_ಠ

Also I support more talk of improvement. >:D

EDIT:
You take that back!
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
These sissys banning :metaknight: at their regionals and playing around on weird stages for years probably had a hand in it too I'm sure. Come to think of it...Michigan probably is better since they actually woke up and smelled the conservative coffee.
We were bad before MK was banned. We were bad while MK was banned. We were bad after MK was banned. I doubt banning MK is why we are bad.

The MW is bad because outside of our like Big 7 players, everyone is a giant follower. As in they try to emulate a "better region" whether it be in rules or gameplay and tactics, and end up being a second rate knock off.
 

What's The Point

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
3,830
Location
Plymouth, MI
MW definitely isn't the weakest region, and this is ignoring those fake regions like Idaho or something (I do not know if Idaho has a scene).

The order is NY/NJ, SoCal, FL, TX, NE, MD/VA, MW, the other MW, GA/AL, Canada, NC, the stuff between NY/NJ and MW, NorCal
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
Stop being followers and lead in something.

There's a reason why the statistically ranked big six (MJG, Kain, Zinoto, Shugo, DeLux, Krystedez, Kel actually being right in there as well so maybe I should say 7, maybe 8 if Domo "unretires") have shown the ability to compete with the countries best, if only even sporadically.

It's because most of us aren't worried about things like copying that EC player etc. and have been pioneers with our characters (some of us multiple characters). We don't only watch videos to find new stuff because that's being one step behind. We literally have been the ones finding new stuff.

Typically the ones that want to win are the ones that win. Saying you want to win is one thing, and showing definitive actions to prove you want to win is another.

Copying other people < Playing and getting help from each other < Playing and trying to beat each other with what you know < Playing and trying to beat each other with what you've learned through competitive desperation to win < Playing and trying to beat each other with what you've discovered through competitive desperation to win
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
At its core:

1. There is a reason why I win
2. There is a reason why I lose
3. I must understand why these reasons matter
4. If I understand why I win and why I lose, winning and losing are entirely in my control
5. Having reasons why I lose is unacceptable, therefore losing is unacceptable but correctable
6. Corrections in fixing why I lose ultimately lead towards a reason as to why I win
 

What's The Point

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
3,830
Location
Plymouth, MI
Zinoto watches videos and learns from other Diddies. I'm pretty sure TLs (MJG) are well known for taking between each other. When lain was still the best in the MW, he learned MK by watching M2K. Shugo's MK is probably very M2K influenced since he learned the character when M2K lived near him. Kel definitely researched other players.

Learning from others is like the #1 way a person learns, grows, and improves.

People get better because they legitamately want to and will put in the time to do it. It just so happens a lot of people who put in the time find their own **** because they are putting in the time.
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
Zinoto watches videos and learns from other Diddies.
What other Diddy has pioneered using the infinite in high profile matches? He can feel free to correct me, but Zinoto has a definite distinct style of play that is different than other Diddy's. He isn't an ADHD/Gnes clone like every other Diddy will try to be.

I'm pretty sure TLs (MJG) are well known for taking between each other.
Nearly every TL tries to emulate MJG, but since you don't play with us, you wouldn't understand the level of testing he and I do

When lain was still the best in the MW, he learned MK by watching M2K.
lain was always the best for his ICs. And he INVENTED the character

Shugo's MK is probably very M2K influenced since he learned the character when M2K lived near him.
Shugo went from the craziest Sonic to the craziest Falco. His MK is good, but he's got a pretty top level Falco that is pretty unique.

Learning from others is like the #1 way a person learns, grows, and improves.
It might be the way you or other MW people learn/grow/improve, but obviously it's not working out too well for people. It helps to find inspiration, but what you do to apply that inspiration is what matters. And if you don't understand how what you see translates to winning and losing, you're just going to be a second rate knock off. We all watch film, but we watch for how we can innovate it, not emulate it.

People get better because they legitamately want to and will put in the time to do it. It just so happens a lot of people who put in the time find their own **** because they are putting in the time.
I disagree

For example:

I lost a match because I tripped in a CG. I understood that if I could prevent dropping that CG I would win. So I invented the tripless CG.

I felt like I didn't have a safe approach option. I noticed that if I played out of grab setup with ICs, it would give me a constant safe approach option. However, the current technology that the ICs had was in adequate to playing out of grab setup at that speed. So I discovered faster grab setup options that were 2 to 3 times faster than what was/is the standard.

I specifically found **** that directly translated into winning and losing for myself.
 

Ridley Silverlake

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
112
Location
Radiata Castle
Nonsense. The only "right" mindset is to take whatever means necessary to make your aspirations happen. You don't have to be a strict video leech OR a constant pioneer to improve, just "do you" and make it work. Finding new things to employ against people works well as a surprise factor to the uneducated...but it all usually comes down to reaction time and resisting hesitation.

That's why most wifi warriors tend to come offline and destroy people, hehe.
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
I completely and positively disagree outside of the due whatever it takes part.

You missed the point of what I was saying on how to overcome being a flawed cookie cutter model that 95% of the MW players try to be. If you have no knowledge of high level of play, then of course you can take away from just copying things high level players do. Even if you have expert knowledge you can do so. But if you want to become the best, you can't get there by only copying which is about as far as people go to get better. Good luck trying to be a better wolf than Kain by simply copying him and not trying to find something to make you better than him.

I've been employing new things for a year and a half, and I have yet to find a situation where someone's reaction time and resisting hesitation has helped them escape a tripless CG once they are trapped, regardless of how educated they are. Sooner or later it stops being a gimmick and starts being the matchup.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
DeLux's ICs are a blatant copy and paste job and he failed to teach me anything Lain wouldn't have.

[COLLAPSE="And..."] I'm the worst liar .:yeahboi: [/COLLAPSE]
 

MegaRobMan

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
7,638
Location
Omaha, NE
WTP, Nebraska is considered part of the midwest, though I appreciate you hyping me up.

My question is, where is New England North Easternerners on that list?
 

Kel

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
4,605
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Maybe if the wifi is awesome for Smash 4 the Midwest can be awesome. I hear other gaming communities have a ton of good players in the MW if the game is played online. Overswarm would randomly get calls while working for IT at his university from Halo pros and then go hang with them after work.

Also, back in 2010, I studied the hell out of people. I had a binder where I wrote down every little habit or gimmick that everyone had when I watched them via a live match/ youtube video. I went around and interviewed a ton of people about what their opinions were and what made them most frustrated about fighting MK. I played every chance I could and asked for advice from every player with every skill level. I was dead set on winning and becoming better. I was slowly but surely achieving my goal of going "pro" with MLG and getting a stipend when MLG dropped us. At MLG DC, I was one placement away from getting a stipend to Dallas (I got 24th and I needed 18th or whatever the next step up was). I was ranked top 15 in the world according to that tournament compilation chart from 2010 and I was doing things like 2-0ing everyone in my Apex pool. Then MLG dropped us and I lost all motivation to actually improve. Sure, I play Marth now and I have fun playing him, but I haven't actually put effort into learning this game since October 2010.

From my personal experience, players in the Midwest CAN improve, but it takes wayyyyy more effort than the other regions. I hardly ever got 2-0ed at MLG, but I couldn't close the deal. I had so much less experience than Seibrik, Havok, MikeHaze, ADHD, etc. that I could not close the deal on them when I had them in a favorable position. In the end, their experience won them the sets I played against them because I would choke or I respected them too much. I had never played a top tier MK, or one of the best Marths, so I was destined to lose. I felt that if I could play them again that I would have a good chance. I felt that I was catching up to the tier of players that I wanted to be, but MLG was cut short and I lost all motivation to play and improve.

At this point, I have switched off MK for Falco and now Marth. I still go to tournaments and I do want to win, but I don't care enough to actually put forth that kind of effort I did in 2010. The amount of effort a MW player has to put in compared to other regions is staggering. Even when OS and I had bred a great local scene and had specialty characters to play against (smash 64's ness, tyr's lucas, YbM's kirby, Infern/ smash 64's snake, OS' ROB) it was not enough to stand up to the national scene.

Another reason the MW has fell short of reaching its potential (at least in the Ohio/ Indiana/ Kentucky area) is that everyone would sandbag against each other. ****ing godkais would never play to win outside of tournament. Even a couple months ago at Chi's no money tournament, AZ would sandbag against me blatantly by not pulling bananas and doing stupid stuff that we both know wouldn't work. He didn't want me to catch on to his habits or how to weave in and out of bananas. He wanted to beat me that day. The problem with this mentality is that when you go out of region, you'll get stomped. I never truly learned how to fight Diddy, and I still don't know how to fight Diddy, despite knowing and teaming with AZ since Brawl began. AZ is just an example but almost everyone in the area did this. Everyone was too worried about beating each other in the next weekend in order to get a rank up on the PR that we didn't learn how to fight each others' characters at a fundamental level. This is still going on today. Would anyone believe that even after a year of living near Judo that I STILL don't know how to fight Shiek? lol

At this point of Brawl, I just look at tournaments like they're something to do/ an excuse to travel with my friends and see people I enjoy being around. That is not to say that I don't want to win, or that I don't want to improve. I just don't want to put the effort forward to do so. It seems that MOST people still feel this way. There are a couple notables that are grinding it out and learning the game day by day (Zinoto, Carls, etc.), but people like Shugo, me, Lain, Judge, etc. we just view tournaments as a chance to hang out and maybe win money by banking on our old skills. We have fun and we want to win, but we don't want to put the effort forth to do it any more.

So, yeah. Midwesterners have a harder time getting decent, but it does happen. It's just that it's usually way too much effort to keep up with. Good luck Carls and Zinoto! The MW is rooting for you!
 

Roller

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
13,137
Location
Just follow the grime...
I've trained with Zinoto for the past year and haven't sandbagged.

Now you all know why he has gotten so absurdly good, so quickly.

You're all welcome for producing your new inspiration, and my apologies for the money he will steal from all of you.
 

Gnes

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
3,666
Location
In Another Dimension...
What other Diddy has pioneered using the infinite in high profile matches? He can feel free to correct me, but Zinoto has a definite distinct style of play that is different than other Diddy's. He isn't an ADHD/Gnes clone like every other Diddy will try to be.
Zinoto plays alot like me. Calm down. That doesn't change how amazing he is. This game isn't about being unique. Its about doing what works and being good at it. And he's pretty damn good at it.

He's got Adhd's DI tho lol
 

Eddie G

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
9,123
Location
Cleveland, OH
NNID
neohmarth216
Zinoto plays alot like me. Calm down. That doesn't change how amazing he is. This game isn't about being unique. Its about doing what works and being good at it. And he's pretty damn good at it.

He's got Adhd's DI tho lol
Sums up my thoughts perfectly, as far as the uniqueness topic goes. Just do what works for you - different things work for different people.

P.S. I've played both gnes and Zinoto at this point and they do indeed play very similar.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
I mean...in every thread that has this Zinoto vs Player 1 discussion, it's the same thing. Several people, even from other regions, even Gnes himself acknowledges Zinoto as an amazing Diddy. Not flawless, but who is? Meanwhile, Player 1 is meatriding himself. Maybe people would take him seriously if he got his head out of his tiny little ***. Just saiyan.

:yeahboi:
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
Well when MW was saying the exact same same things last time about zinoto being the next best thing it's kinda hard to take you seriously.


How many times am I going to have to come to your own region and outplace zinoto before you get his **** out of your mouth?

:phone:


Edit: Idk, Roller, probably when you guys forget zinoto losing to a ROB main
 
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