The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[PkTrainerCris]

This is a pretty rare tier list, and im not talking about character's placements, all those tiers are confusing, specially after having a top-high-medium-low tier list, but i will get used to it... and i feel like it cares a LOT about tourny placings ( thats the way it should be ), the last one didnt have too much tournies to begin... the game was too young
I like this list
Poor captain falcon :/

 

[Steeler]

lol, go to the boards and go on the tourney thread buddy.

There's your answer.

i'm not your buddy, pal!

yoshi has placed top 2 in 1 tournament since june, a win at a 16 man tourney. 9 top 4's. 36 placements overall, 2/3 were at tourneys smaller than 25 players.

that sounds like low tier to me. arguing if he should have dropped one spot is kind of asinine when the whole low tier is separated by less than a single point in a voting system.

 

[TheNix]

Thats right,
The most lamest Ditto's ever would be Diddy vs Diddy or Falco Ditto.

Diddy dittos (that sounds really weird) are actually a lot of fun. Possibly even the most fun of all ditto matches.

Agree that Falco dittos are the stupidest.

 

[Metatitan]

Then again there are many yoshies unable to enter the tournament scene, myself included (**** lack of transportation)

 

[istudying]

Captain falcon really has to be higher dan Ganon and stuff.

 

[bigman40]

i'm not your buddy, pal!

yoshi has placed top 2 in 1 tournament since june, a win at a 16 man tourney. 9 top 4's. 36 placements overall, 2/3 were at tourneys smaller than 25 players.

that sounds like low tier to me. arguing if he should have dropped one spot is kind of asinine when the whole low tier is separated by less than a single point in a voting system.

Well dayum! I guess we can't be friends on a site where people were supposed to talk about a game everyone plays, but whatever. I could care less about how far Yoshi should move up or down at this point. I just want to know what "qualities" make a character GREAT? And before that, people were throwing us to the side saying, "get more tourney placings". Ok, so now we have some, and now those are discredited since they aren't big tourneys? I know big tourneys are more knowledgeable, but wtf? We should just leave those and only try to get to big ones? Plz tell me! I must know!

 

[Roxas215]

so mk gets his own tier.


But im happy zss pika and peach moved up. There all my secondaries But dammit. Diddy is high tier now. I kept dissing my friends because back then diddy was still mid tier. Now there going to complain im using a high tier char. Arrg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But bowser better then fox??? Can someone explain this?

Also why did they change the tier list to letters? It just looks cluttered now. Can someone break this down to the normal top/high/mid/low/bottom?

 

[Metatitan]

Just give it up scatty no one ever listens to us anymore

 

[TheJerm]

Hmm, toon link went down. Understandable since we dont win many big tourneys. Still not in a bad spot =]

 

[Adapt]

Look at the list like this if you want: (Any difference larger than 0.65 started a new tier, with the exception of Top)

Top: (2)
Meta Knight, Snake

High: (13)
Falco, King Dedede, Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Diddy Kong, Wario, ROB, Lucario, Olimar,
Pikachu, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Ice Climbers

Mid: (11)
Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, Pit, Peach, Wolf, Luigi, Zelda, Bowser, Fox, Sheik, Ike

Low: (7)
Mario, Lucas, Ness, Samus, Sonic, Pokémon Trainer, Yoshi

Bottom (4)
Link, Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon

Yes 0.65 is an arbitrary number... I picked it because it sorted the characters into similar sized tiers in the middle. In reality, High and Mid should be combined into one large tier. This, while a good idea imo, makes a very top-heavy list. I also wanted to lump Bottom into Low, but the difference of 1.38 is too large to ignore.



IMO, this is what low tier tourneys should be based on... Low and Bottom would be the only ranks viable.

 

[Blad01]

Or maybe :

SS Tier
Meta Knight 15.00

S Tier
Snake 13.91

Top Tier
Falco 13.03
King Dedede 12.94
Mr. Game & Watch 12.50
Marth 12.09
Diddy Kong 11.94

Very High Tier
Wario 11.47
R.O.B. 11.38
Lucario 10.94
Olimar 10.94

High Tier
Pikachu 10.34
Kirby 10.16
Donkey Kong 10.06
Ice Climbers 9.59

(High) Middle Tier
Zero Suit Samus 8.88
Toon Link 8.47
Pit 8.44
Peach 8.16
Wolf 7.91

(Low) Middle Tier
Luigi 7.41
Zelda 7.03
Bowser 6.91
Fox 6.66
Sheik 6.44
Ike 5.91

Low Tier
Mario 4.56
Lucas 4.50
Ness 4.50
Samus 4.41
Sonic 4.16
Pokémon Trainer 3.94
Yoshi 3.66

Bottom Tier
Link 2.28
Jigglypuff 2.03
Ganondorf 1.88
Captain Falcon 1.63

 

[Lord Viper]

Wow, how did Olimar get so high?! Hell yes at Kirby getting higher, Wario's place is still godly to me, as for Mario Ness and Pokemon Trainer..... DAMM!

 

[Adapt]

Or maybe :

~LIST~

I was replying to the people complaining that there was too many tiers, offering another way of looking at the list without changing much. I am quite fine with having 9 tiers, because I agree with the method behind the separations.

 

[Steeler]

Well dayum! I guess we can't be friends on a site where people were supposed to talk about a game everyone plays, but whatever.

that was a reference to some line in some movie or something. idk. but you didn't get it so i failed you.

I could care less about how far Yoshi should move up or down at this point. I just want to know what "qualities" make a character GREAT? And before that, people were throwing us to the side saying, "get more tourney placings". Ok, so now we have some, and now those are discredited since they aren't big tourneys? I know big tourneys are more knowledgeable, but wtf? We should just leave those and only try to get to big ones? Plz tell me! I must know!

Yoshi's on the same level everyone else in low tier is at...does okay locally, places decently where a good main resides (ie doesn't often make grand finals or whatever but does place), but struggles to make a big splash at bigger tourneys. look at PT and Sonic. Same deal with those guys.

and imo, if you want to look at how "good" the characters are, you can mesh most of E and F together because there isn't much of a difference there in matchups.

 

[•Col•]

SS Tier (God Tier)
Meta Knight 15.00

S Tier(2 gud tier)
Snake 13.91

A Tier(Top Tier)
Falco 13.03
King Dedede 12.94
Mr. Game & Watch 12.50
Marth 12.09
Diddy Kong 11.94

B Tier(High-high)
Wario 11.47
R.O.B. 11.38
Lucario 10.94
Olimar 10.94

C Tier(High-low)
Pikachu 10.34
Kirby 10.16
Donkey Kong 10.06
Ice Climbers 9.59

D Tier(Middle-high)
Zero Suit Samus 8.88
Toon Link 8.47
Pit 8.44
Peach 8.16
Wolf 7.91

E Tier(Middle-low)
Luigi 7.41
Zelda 7.03
Bowser 6.91
Fox 6.66
Sheik 6.44
Ike 5.91

F Tier(Low tier)
Mario 4.56
Lucas 4.50
Ness 4.50
Samus 4.41
Sonic 4.16
Pokémon Trainer 3.94
Yoshi 3.66

G Tier(Bottom tier)
Link 2.28
Jigglypuff 2.03
Ganondorf 1.88
Captain Falcon 1.63
[/COLOR]

Fixed so people can maybe understand the tiers better. xD

Kinda confused as to why Snake has his own tier though... o-o


EDIT: Oshi-. Someone beat me to it. D:

 

[Ange]

Diddy is high tier now. I kept dissing my friends because back then diddy was still mid tier. Now there going to complain im using a high tier char. Arrg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Simply say "no johns".

Some of the rankings could have merged tho, like B & C and D & E, but Ill just get used to it. I tend to do it quite fast so I wont say anything more about that.

Edit: Colaya that list definition was good, might be used at the start, and simply overgo to the ABC system, as it will probably be used in the future I suppose?

 

[Teran]

Meta Knight Tier
Meta Knight 15.00

Nades and Ftilt Tier
Snake 13.91

Top Tier
Falco 13.03
King Dedede 12.94
Mr. Game & Watch 12.50
Marth 12.09
Diddy Kong 11.94

High Tier
Wario 11.47
R.O.B. 11.38
Lucario 10.94
Olimar 10.94

(High) Mid Tier
Pikachu 10.34
Kirby 10.16
Donkey Kong 10.06
Ice Climbers 9.59

Mid Tier
Zero Suit Samus 8.88
Toon Link 8.47
Pit 8.44
Peach 8.16
Wolf 7.91

(Low) Mid Tier
Luigi 7.41
Zelda 7.03
Bowser 6.91
Fox 6.66
Sheik 6.44
Ike 5.91

Low Tier
Mario 4.56
Lucas 4.50
Ness 4.50
Samus 4.41
Sonic 4.16
Pokémon Trainer 3.94
Yoshi 3.66

Sakurai'd Tier
Link 2.28
Jigglypuff 2.03
Ganondorf 1.88
Captain Falcon 1.63

Corrected.

 

[thechunkylover]

So many tiers..... Will future lists be like this.

SS stands for Super Saiyan tier.

 

[Red Arremer]

but r0y h4z t3h f1r3!!11

_

Although I think that having people who have no idea about this or that character voting all across the roster is horrendously idiotic, the outcome could be WAY worse.

 

[Kinzer]

LOL at Sonic now being the 7th worst character in the game.

Let's keep up the good work, you guys!

 

[sniperworm]

How were characters with the same averaged score placed? Lucario - Olimar and Lucas - Ness are what I'm talking about. Were they listed based on the previous tier list? Was it alphabetical? Was it based on who had less standard deviation between the votes?

I'm just curious is all.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

This list, overall, is a fairly good list. There are a few blatant mistakes that no amount of convincing could have fixed (like Captain Falcon being the worst still and Sonic being so low). And I definitely feel like we should/could have combined B/C tier into one, but I think this list does its job and otherwise is a good representation of the current metagame.

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi's on the same level everyone else in low tier is at...does okay locally, places decently where a good main resides (ie doesn't often make grand finals or whatever but does place), but struggles to make a big splash at bigger tourneys. look at PT and Sonic. Same deal with those guys.

and imo, if you want to look at how "good" the characters are, you can mesh most of E and F together because there isn't much of a difference there in matchups.

I don't know how other yoshi mains do at tourneys, so I wouldn't know. But I'll probably end up looking at the matchups for the above characters, and see what's different.

 

[Asdioh]

SS Tier
15.00

Damn, I knew this would happen someday.

 

[metaXzero]

"Sakurai'd tier".

I lol'd

 

[EWING]

I think it might be too soon for another tier list, but I guess it can't hurt.

 

[Napilopez]

Finally read through all of this, gosh.

I agree with most of the top placings.

Lower tiers are where I begin to disagree.

Also to Gheb, not to disrespect you, but what makes you think pikachu and marth and whoever else you said should be lower? Pikachu I think is fine in his position, and marth I think is too good to be lower, or at least significantly lower.

I have a problem with the voting system. I think it works perfectly fine for the higher placed characters, but as you come to the low tiers, many disagreements will tend to ensue I would think, and it just seems the lower tiers were less critically evaluated. Not saying they wereee, but it seems that way. I feel like below D rank or E rank, the characters need to be reevaluated moreso on looking at the characters individual properties and results and such. The voting system seems like it would really lead to innacuracies for the lower tier characters because opinions here could vary so much.

I'm not even doing this so much because of Sonic.

I'm honestly with the yoshi mains here, I can't think of a single reason why Yoshi would move down. I do think he needs more tourney rep in large tournaments, however, but clearly this isn't just about tournies. Even just looking at character attributes and matchups, I don't think he deserves to be there. Likewise there is the problem with Ness and Lucas. I think Ness is clearly better than Lucas, and I think that Yoshi and Sonic PT show at least more potential than lucas and samus.

So thats my gripe with the voting system. Its alot of characters for individual people to evaluate on a 15 point basis, and overall agreements are likely to exist in the higher tiers, the lower tiers just don't seem right by simply looking at it logically, from my point of view. Perhaps use a voting system first, and then critically reaveluate parts of it in order to make sure there is an accurate representation in the lower tiers?

Its hard to explain what I'm getting at, but it just doesn't "feel" like the voting system would yield accurate results in the lower tiers. Think about it and maybe you'll see what I mean.

Any clarification from the SBR-B would be much appreciated though, these are just my personal thoughts =P

 

[Gea]

Peach is deeead middle.

 

[Red Arremer]

Peach is deeead middle.

She's everyone's girl.

 

[Chis]

Could the tier list discussion from the SBR be posted so that we can see?

 

[Affinity]

I dunno if it was that video vs Dojo (I'm assuming it is, if I'm right I deserve 2 cookies), but if it is I heard Dojo beat him a few times right after those videos.

Yes, that was him. Bwett beat Dojo at a late night tournament (around 4am) in a mini-tournament the night before HOBO11 when we were all at BadNewsBear's house. Dojo 2 then 3 stocked Bwett in HOBO11 brackets.

 

[typh]

hahaha pokemon trainer went down, good ****

 

[•Col•]

Finally read through all of this, gosh.

I agree with most of the top placings.

Lower tiers are where I begin to disagree.

Also to Gheb, not to disrespect you, but what makes you think pikachu and marth and whoever else you said should be lower? Pikachu I think is fine in his position, and marth I think is too good to be lower, or at least significantly lower.

I have a problem with the voting system. I think it works perfectly fine for the higher placed characters, but as you come to the low tiers, many disagreements will tend to ensue I would think, and it just seems the lower tiers were less critically evaluated. Not saying they wereee, but it seems that way. I feel like below D rank or E rank, the characters need to be reevaluated moreso on looking at the characters individual properties and results and such. The voting system seems like it would really lead to innacuracies for the lower tier characters because opinions here could vary so much.

I'm not even doing this so much because of Sonic.

I'm honestly with the yoshi mains here, I can't think of a single reason why Yoshi would move down. I do think he needs more tourney rep in large tournaments, however, but clearly this isn't just about tournies. Even just looking at character attributes and matchups, I don't think he deserves to be there. Likewise there is the problem with Ness and Lucas. I think Ness is clearly better than Lucas, and I think that Yoshi and Sonic PT show at least more potential than lucas and samus.

So thats my gripe with the voting system. Its alot of characters for individual people to evaluate on a 15 point basis, and overall agreements are likely to exist in the higher tiers, the lower tiers just don't seem right by simply looking at it logically, from my point of view. Perhaps use a voting system first, and then critically reaveluate parts of it in order to make sure there is an accurate representation in the lower tiers?

Its hard to explain what I'm getting at, but it just doesn't "feel" like the voting system would yield accurate results in the lower tiers. Think about it and maybe you'll see what I mean.

Any clarification from the SBR-B would be much appreciated though, these are just my personal thoughts =P

I agree with this.

After initial voting has been done, there should probably be a second phase of voting for each individual tier.

Example: G Tier; Link, Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, and Cpt. Falcon. How would you rate them against one another? Which one do you think is the worst out of these four, and who do you think is the best? Finally, do you believe any of these characters could/should move up a tier or if any could/should move down tier?

 

[Palpi]

Woot Pokemon Trainer for (F)ail tier!

More reason for me to play him I guess so.

(Plus squirtle is legit.)

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

This list, overall, is a fairly good list. There are a few blatant mistakes that no amount of convincing could have fixed (like Captain Falcon being the worst still and Sonic being so low). And I definitely feel like we should/could have combined B/C tier into one, but I think this list does its job and otherwise is a good representation of the current metagame.

I actually hit my funny bone on my desk when I saw this...ouch. Good show Anther xD

(You know I'm messing with you SP)

Overall, I think this tier list is a lot better than the 1st one

 

[Baro]

Ness and Lucas being tied bugs the heck out of me.

 

[AOB]

You Yoshi fans should thank me. Before I took a look at the data, Yoshi was going to be put in the bottom tier!

Going back and discussing the list once you've tallied up the votes sounds nice, but it isn't easy. We sort of did some of that, but it didn't get very far. Anyway, there was plenty of discussion going on as voting took place.

The characters that would need further discussion the most are the ones whose scores had the highest standard deviation. Here are the scores and SDs, for your edification:

Meta Knight, 15.00, 0.00
Snake , 13.91, 0.69
Falco , 13.03, 0.90
King Dedede , 12.94, 0.88
Mr. Game & Watch, 12.50, 0.88
Marth , 12.09, 1.00
Diddy Kong , 11.94, 1.41
Wario , 11.47, 0.67
R.O.B. , 11.38, 1.29
Lucario , 10.94, 0.80
Olimar , 10.94, 1.61
Pikachu , 10.34, 1.18
Kirby , 10.16, 1.25
Donkey Kong , 10.06, 1.52
Ice Climbers , 9.59, 1.21
Zero Suit Samus , 8.88, 1.83
Toon Link , 8.47, 1.32
Pit , 8.44, 1.50
Peach , 8.16, 1.67
Wolf , 7.91, 1.06
Luigi , 7.41, 1.46
Zelda , 7.03, 1.06
Bowser , 6.91, 1.67
Fox , 6.66, 1.89
Sheik , 6.44, 1.27
Ike , 5.91, 1.17
Mario , 4.56, 1.39
Lucas , 4.50, 1.30
Ness , 4.50, 1.34
Samus , 4.41, 1.21
Sonic , 4.16, 1.48
Pokémon Trainer , 3.94, 1.44
Yoshi , 3.66, 1.12
Link , 2.28, 0.96
Jigglypuff , 2.03, 1.26
Ganondorf , 1.88 , 1.18
Captain Falcon , 1.63, 0.79

Yoshi's stdev isn't particularly high, so he would have been a relatively low priority when it comes to re-evaluating the scores. Anyway, you guys know what you'll have to do if you think he's too low.

 

[Steel_Samurai]

woah, marth went up. I didn't see that coming.
Diddy went up much more than I thought, but it seems right
good tier list, placings seem right, but the amount of tiers is kinda confusing.

 

[Dabuz]

to be honest, i think its good even though im sad oli is now bottom of high tier(knew it was gonna happen though) but a few semi-big mistakes i think

peach=bottom C tier, luigi=middle C tier and dk is really top of C tier diddy is top of the A tier, but not A tier, kirby should really be lower C tier, also, lucas is not the same as ness, im sorry but lucas is a little higher than ness by far,

i would say 1 point higher to be honest, hard to gimp recovery by far, jab locking, much more reliable ground game due to tilts, easier to kill with, slighty worse aerials i agree and worse pk fire, better grab range(even though his won't kill like ness), while he still definitely is low or possibly bottom of middle they should not have been grouped together as basically the same people

, while i believe the exact character ordering could be a little better i for the most part agree with this tier list

 

[xDD-Master]

WOW Falco hat high, above DDD, cool :D

And Diddy on 7, thought he will be 5, but 7 is okay ^^

This Tier List is good, but i'll wait for the next one and hope it will be more like I think it will be xD

Pit, Tink, Olimar a bit higher than now for example ^^

Lucas 4.50
Ness 4.50

WHAT?

Lucas > Ness

Lucas has sooooo much potential, it's like Luigi

Only people have two learn with there special "floatiness" (???) ;D

~xDD