Metatitan
Smash Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYOWFv48EGY
There's a vid of scatz vs reflex. He doesn't even use grab release on that wario. Lol at them actually lowering his tier position
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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
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There's a vid of scatz vs reflex. He doesn't even use grab release on that wario. Lol at them actually lowering his tier position
SkylerOcon
Tiny Dancer
I'm asking about the reason for Mario specifically. I want to know what made so many people vote that low for him. I want to know what specific qualities about Mario the SBR thought was so bad that they gave him such a low score.
-Ran
Smash Master
Since I'm on my pda, I'll make this quick. The tier divisions are based off of logical gaps. Why do the tier gaps occur? Look at the deviations caused by voting. With a 15, everyone put Mk at the top, this means that the highest the next level would have would be a 14. Snake clearly had most of his votes at a 14 to get the score he had. However, it's clear those in the next tier received very few 14s, if anything due to their scores. Apply this logic and the gaps of the tiers make sense.
You'l also note most of the gaps occur when the score reaches below .5, ie, when the votes are clearly burdened by a lower score.
You'l also note most of the gaps occur when the score reaches below .5, ie, when the votes are clearly burdened by a lower score.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Maybe in a certain section of his game play, but not overall. Captain Falcon's ground and aerial mobility should easily put him above Ganondorf.
hotgarbage
Smash Lord
People who know nothing are lecturing those that do and others are claiming that wifi play should be considered when making the tier list.
Yup, this is a tier topic alright.
On topic though, this list looks pretty solid. Good work.
Yup, this is a tier topic alright.
On topic though, this list looks pretty solid. Good work.
Minwu
Smash Journeyman
Just because plain horrible characters like Mario manage to get some tourney wins makes them better than Yoshi?
MK is right and that matters most though, I guess.
MK is right and that matters most though, I guess.
bigman40
Smash Master
That's a valid concern, but you can rest assured it isn't that way at all.
The SBR members voted. I took the averages of the members' votes and looked at them in a graph, and I selected the divisions according to those two rules I mentioned. Incidentally, I didn't even vote, because I don't feel like I know the characters sufficiently well and I don't have very strong feelings on the matter. But that's great, because I had no predispositions whatsoever regarding who should be in which tier. I didn't care if Olimar ended up too low, or DDD too high, or whatever. I just looked at the numbers and used a discerning eye to determine where the natural gaps were.
That doesn't mean the votes themselves are perfect, but getting smart people together and taking the average of the votes seems like the best way to go about it.
For some reason or another, his tournament record must not have been as compelling to the majority of the SBR as it is to you. I'll have to leave it at that; maybe someone else can give you a better answer.
Luso
Smash Ace
Well, I know one thing: Pit is right where I thought he would be. I didn't think he was that powerful, even with his 'cheapness.' He's harder to use than some people let on. O___o
BoTastic!
Smash Master
If Mario is horrible then Yoshi must be plain **** right? (No offense Bigman) Just this post fails so much.
Babar-Thorbald
Smash Apprentice
Vorguen
Smash Champion
I'm kind of impressed that ROB went down, I was kind of expecting him to rise a bit. Although, as for Diddy Kong I kind of expected that.
TheREALShadowChaos
Smash Journeyman
I did not expect G&W to drop now that they found about Bucket Braking.
Guess Bucket Braking still sucks in the end?
Guess Bucket Braking still sucks in the end?
bigman40
Smash Master
None taken. Honestly, I just don't find the low tiers placed correctly, but eh, what do I know? I'm just a biased Yoshi main (according to most people).
Metatitan
Smash Master
Everyone on this website is biased. Its just the people who have power who are biased that matter
Orange_Soda_Man
Smash Ace
Omis
my friends were skinny
Diddy shocked me but everything else is pretty good.
Listen to you guys... Going on like the tier list has something to do with your ability to play your character. As if the SBR-B offended you personally.
It's a summary of the current metagame, nothing more, nothing less. If your character doesn't deserve to be so low, get out there and prove it.
It's a summary of the current metagame, nothing more, nothing less. If your character doesn't deserve to be so low, get out there and prove it.
Fino
Smash Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYOWFv48EGY
There's a vid of scatz vs reflex. He doesn't even use grab release on that wario. Lol at them actually lowering his tier position
I lol at this argument. The first yoshi vid was boring, and the second was better I admit... but I don't see what made yoshi a GRAET character that you yoshi mains seem to believe.
Char bias... *sigh*
QTF... we'll be hearing and talking about this for months ;-;
~Fino
Minwu
Smash Journeyman
It's interesting that (IMO) the tier list gets more accurate as you get into the better and most-played characters. It's natural that the lesser-played worse characters would have less known about them, but I'm curious as to how it would look if all characters were played an equal amount...
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
I'm sure everyone would like in depth analysis for their character too
Metatitan
Smash Master
I don't think yoshi is too good or anything i just think the position they gave him was very bias
Orange_Soda_Man
Smash Ace
I came to the same conclusion. Also the 2nd vid against the MK, not one tornado. I haven't checked MK boards, maybe I just don't know my who's who but was that MK anyone special?
Edit: I like Yoshi. I enjoy him as a character. I'd have to do my hw on him and the characters around him, metagame-wise, before I cast personal judgment as to whether imo he is at a good spot or should be higher or lower. My initial thoughts are that I am in agreement with SBR about the placing, but we shall see.
momochuu
Smash Legend
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I dunno if it was that video vs Dojo (I'm assuming it is, if I'm right I deserve 2 cookies), but if it is I heard Dojo beat him a few times right after those videos.
bigman40
Smash Master
Yep....And right there is why we're discredited when we even try to state something. We're not saying great as in ****ing high tier. We know the limitations, so why would we go beyond what Yoshi can do?
Not only that, what qualities makes the other characters higher? (to classify them as GREAT)
istudying
Smash Lord
Captain falcon still low tier, i tought he would rank up.
Diddy going for top tier Alright,
Diddy going for top tier Alright,
Falcon isn't as terribad as people thought he was way back in April, but he's still comparably worse than the rest of the characters.
Thunderstorming isn't exactly a good... reason to make him better than Falcon. OH LOOK IT'S A CHARACTER DOING SHORTHOP AERIALS WITH NOTICEABLE STARTUP AND ENDING LAG (that is, falling/post-attack time).
AWESOME.
+TIERTIERTIER.
...
His Murder Choke followups do, though, assuming that he uses it as a punisher move and not an approach.
lol@yoursigNow I'll show you who's F tier? Now that doesn't sound right.
Apparently, Yoshi has some things that can knock MK out of tornado. U-smash supposedly outprioritizes it (vs high tornado) and his tongue can grab MK out of it if he's low.
and for you disappointed Sonic supporters and such, I'll just quote this post from the Sonic boards. Highlighted stuff for ya:
Alot of the Sonics that have placed recently - I've played alot of them on Wi-Fi via allisbrawl, some of them even before some of you guys had even heard of them (Phoenix Dark, Shugo). The ones that play on AiB play a wide variety of players because there are people who main like, everyone. Or were. We have an idea of character tendencies and adjust their behaviors to what we can expect offline in matchups. Though, Shugo did mention the IC issue. There aren't many IC's on wifi for obvious reasons, but trust me, the few IC mains that do go online tend to know how to make use of desynchs and do many more things than just bumrush you for a chaingrab.
That said, even as we entered our first offline tournaments, we did very well. We have experience trying out different strategies and exposing ourselves to player habits (example, edge or roll habits).
People can say there are tons of Sonic mains that enter tournaments, contributing to his placing, but either that's not true and there are 1-2 Sonics in that region, or the Sonics they play are trash (I wouldn't dare call someone who isn't read up on or explored Sonic's capabilities a Sonic main). But from how I see it, it's just the onslaught as a few of the good 'wifi-Sonics' are finally entering the tournament scene.
You'd think, Oh, but it's their first offline-tournaments, and they placed really high, and/or even won! Doesn't that say something about Sonic as a character??
Here's where it breaks down.
The people they play against didn't have matchup experience against Sonic.
You've seen the trash that prominent members throw around. You laugh at the matchup discussions when people are sprouting on about how Sonic has low priority since they outprioritize Sonic's spindash, while we destroy them with our U-airs and B-airs, and outspace them with tilts and outmanuever their spacing with our movement options and shieldgrabs.
And finally, they see a Sonic main for the first time and they get destroyed.
good game.
And we win.
Seriously, you see the same garbage for Falcon and PT. No, any of the mid-low tier characters.
"Falcon has little priority! lolol" then you come across a Falcon who aggrorushes, punishes your attacks, and outprioritizes you with some surprisingly decent-priority moves and grab followups.
"Charizard is slow! Ivysaur sucks!" Then you come across a PT player who can time Rock-Smash as a counterattack (it explodes on contact), make use of Charizard's 'finished' ('autocancelled') aerials, and grab game. Or someone who can competently use Ivysaur's spacing tools, and Bullet Seed out of spotdodge/shield, or even up-B as an edgehog/kill move. Or even just a PT main who continues to fight you even when low on stamina, whittling away until they can get that D-throw or something to switch, or just straight up take you to a high % and kill.
And I'm sure everyone's familiar with Yoshi, and hopefully Samus players and abilities.
I'd take this season/year as being a more telling time for Sonic, especially if the Sonic mains who just recently entered the tourney scene go to more tourneys and start to go up against people who begin to and finally learn the matchup.
Metatitan
Smash Master
Dojo didn't bother using tornado on bwett because yoshi's egg and usmash beat the tornado. On smashville with plenty of room to egg/usmash there really was no point in using that move.
Babar-Thorbald
Smash Apprentice
Yoshi screws the tornado with eggs (and basically any of meta's b-moves)...
Master Raven
Smash Master
I don't like this method of organizing the tiers. It's hard for me to differentiate high from mid from low and etc.
In any case though DK needs to be higher LOL
In any case though DK needs to be higher LOL
Master Raven
Smash Master
Stupid double post.
Minwu
Smash Journeyman
istudying
Smash Lord
Thats right,
The most lamest Ditto's ever would be Diddy vs Diddy or Falco Ditto.
He doesn't tornado much... against anyone. lol.
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