Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
Dedede wants to talk, so let's do so!
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The Pokedex. PT doesn't care enough to analyze 120 matchups. (Update 7/16)
- Thread starter Steeler
- Start date
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
Can we do Pit next.He annoys me to no end.
MaTA
Smash Ace
my buddy plays Pitt really well... and he plays D so it sucks 
but there are ways around him...
but there are ways around him...
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
I kinda feel that Squirtle>Snake,but thats just me.
imo squitle can do well against snake however he is so light that snake kills him like at 60 % sometimes. =/
water gun can stop grenade spam and squirtle can juggle but unless you can grab him out of his cypher squirtle prolly won't be able to kill him.
water gun can stop grenade spam and squirtle can juggle but unless you can grab him out of his cypher squirtle prolly won't be able to kill him.
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
WTF 60%,What kills him?
And anyways,Squirtle does not kill,rather serves him on a platter for Ivysaur.
MaTA
Smash Ace
ha yeah right i swear he can kill squirtle with a Fsmash at like 30%
but yeah if you dont have a fresh move list it'll be a little harder to kill him even if he blast himself up with a mine after you cypher grab him. Just sucks having to get so close to snake knowing your going to get Up tilt
but yeah if you dont have a fresh move list it'll be a little harder to kill him even if he blast himself up with a mine after you cypher grab him. Just sucks having to get so close to snake knowing your going to get Up tilt
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
Water gun messes up his mine recovery though if you want to be gayer.
CHOMPY
Sinbad: King of Sindria
I have a hard time approaching ZSS so can we please discuss about her.
Retro Gaming
Black and White Thinking
I like playing against Snake, Charizard can be inconvenient sometimes because of how big he is and how easy it is to get hit, but otherwise the fight is pretty manageable. Snake uses explosives a lot though so Charizard isn't my favorite to use.
One thing that bugs me about playing versus Snake is that if you pick Corneria you're doing yourself in because Snake can camp the lower area and take total control with his tilts, and none of the Pokémon really have a way of "taking it back" safely. Also, Utilt kills at like 11%.
One thing that bugs me about playing versus Snake is that if you pick Corneria you're doing yourself in because Snake can camp the lower area and take total control with his tilts, and none of the Pokémon really have a way of "taking it back" safely. Also, Utilt kills at like 11%.
Magik0722
Smash Champion
I really dont like charizard to much against snake because of how small charizards roll is when he gets up, it is to easy for snake to dthrow chain a charizard
Canvasofgrey
Smash Ace
I think Squirtle has more of an advantage against Snake than Charizard does. At least Squirtle has mobility where Charizard does not.
CHOMPY
Sinbad: King of Sindria
You can just flamethrower those grendades so they dont get anywhere near you. Charizards long grab range with the neck helps against those that like to camp.
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
Yes but you are the one on the need to approach.Stamina comes kickin in.
Magik0722
Smash Champion
Not to mention the projectiles
Do we have a match up discussion for Pit?
I'm confused also about match up discussions. How many have we done? I dont really remeber how many we have and I would hope that the OP is correct though since it's been a while I have to doubt. So, a little help?
I'm confused also about match up discussions. How many have we done? I dont really remeber how many we have and I would hope that the OP is correct though since it's been a while I have to doubt. So, a little help?
Toby.
Smash Master
I got owned by that in a tournament a while back. Its a really, really bad stage if you are against snake. Onett works in a similar way as well.
o. ok. We need to really get the ball rolling again.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
Yeah, this hasn't been updated FOR OVER A MONTH! START THE MATCH UP/FLAME WARS NOW!!!!!
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
We really need to focus.
Oh, and by the way, the Foxes are talking about us, we may need to pay a visit.
Oh, and by the way, the Foxes are talking about us, we may need to pay a visit.
ElemMasterZeph92
Smash Journeyman
That would be good, many boards do it from what I've seen. Its a good idea, am I right?
It would be easier if you had gave us the link, you know for better access and such
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
I think we should change our matchup stats against Falco.
Reflex counters Falco.
Reflex counters Falco.
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
Reflex also counters Metaknight.
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
Reflex counters everybody. He's the god of PT.
I die a little inside each time I see him use Wario.
I die a little inside each time I see him use Wario.
actually, i think warios should be dying inside every time reflex takes first with just pokemon trainer.
foxes seem to have come to a consensus that squirtle is about neutral and ivysaur/charizard are both slight disadvantage, and fox has like a 55:45 advantage. thoughts?
foxes seem to have come to a consensus that squirtle is about neutral and ivysaur/charizard are both slight disadvantage, and fox has like a 55:45 advantage. thoughts?
Against fox?
Squirtle I can agree 50-50. That dair>usmash gets the poor guy sent home at 80% on most stages. Utilt locks on a fox will work well, but shine gives us trouble off stage. Hydrojabs, and grabs will help a lot in this matchup. Its pretty much give and take.
Ivy nair>bseed is too God. No I didn't miss an O. ;-) a lot of our combos/chains work well against him, if we space properly we'll come out on top....so long as we aren't shined offstage again. -_- so 45-55 in foxs favour
Charizard, again more spacing. Rack up damage with jabs, sh rock smash>grab, and save the dtilt and usmash for the kill. In my opinion charizard does the best against foxy. His dair and fair will give us trouble since zards fat *** gets him hit. Our fair will get him good and dead if he's recovering. Foxs upb recovery is really gimpable and zard can capitalise on that well. But zards survivability will come out on top. 60-40 in my experience.
Squirtle I can agree 50-50. That dair>usmash gets the poor guy sent home at 80% on most stages. Utilt locks on a fox will work well, but shine gives us trouble off stage. Hydrojabs, and grabs will help a lot in this matchup. Its pretty much give and take.
Ivy nair>bseed is too God. No I didn't miss an O. ;-) a lot of our combos/chains work well against him, if we space properly we'll come out on top....so long as we aren't shined offstage again. -_- so 45-55 in foxs favour
Charizard, again more spacing. Rack up damage with jabs, sh rock smash>grab, and save the dtilt and usmash for the kill. In my opinion charizard does the best against foxy. His dair and fair will give us trouble since zards fat *** gets him hit. Our fair will get him good and dead if he's recovering. Foxs upb recovery is really gimpable and zard can capitalise on that well. But zards survivability will come out on top. 60-40 in my experience.
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
Squirtle is 55:45 advantage.
Squirtle will not likely be hit by a Dair because he will be in the air so much. Fox will have to worry about getting Uaired possibly if he is above Squirtle. I am also pretty sure that Squirtle has better Air mobility and his Aerials are very great. Also Waterfall them if they get to close with that shine.
Ivysaur is 45:55 disadvantage because that Onstage, Ivysaurs spacing works well. He also has options dealing with Fox.Bullet seed basically can punish Foxs.
However, Fox has alot of speed and his Upsmash is scary on an Ivy.(not so much on Squirtle cause landing one is harder than it looks.)
Off stage Shine just kills you. Getting Ivy offstage is a chore though.
Charizard is like 45:55 Foxes advantage. WITH HONOR!
Seriously, Fox might as well be a Squirtle in sheeps clothing.(at least compared to Charizard.)
Everything you most likely do will be punished. Fox can combo you to holy hell.
He also can finish you off with an Upsmash like Squirtle.
However thats basically PUNISHMENT. So making no Mistakes with Chariazard is vital.
Start spacing with your Jabs, Flamethowers and your Rocks. You can punish Fox as almost heavily as he can, but with Greater risk.
Squirtle will not likely be hit by a Dair because he will be in the air so much. Fox will have to worry about getting Uaired possibly if he is above Squirtle. I am also pretty sure that Squirtle has better Air mobility and his Aerials are very great. Also Waterfall them if they get to close with that shine.
Ivysaur is 45:55 disadvantage because that Onstage, Ivysaurs spacing works well. He also has options dealing with Fox.Bullet seed basically can punish Foxs.
However, Fox has alot of speed and his Upsmash is scary on an Ivy.(not so much on Squirtle cause landing one is harder than it looks.)
Off stage Shine just kills you. Getting Ivy offstage is a chore though.
Charizard is like 45:55 Foxes advantage. WITH HONOR!
Seriously, Fox might as well be a Squirtle in sheeps clothing.(at least compared to Charizard.)
Everything you most likely do will be punished. Fox can combo you to holy hell.
He also can finish you off with an Upsmash like Squirtle.
However thats basically PUNISHMENT. So making no Mistakes with Chariazard is vital.
Start spacing with your Jabs, Flamethowers and your Rocks. You can punish Fox as almost heavily as he can, but with Greater risk.
PkTrainerCris
Smash Ace
I agree with vermis, and i like your avatar...
Heheh thx.
Made it mahself. I man PT and Kirby so it's perfect =D
And yeah, now that I think about it, squirtles air game > fox's air game.
And a ff dair(without the last hit)>upsmash/reflex utilt lock works really well.
I've still found that in my experience Zard does well against most of the fox mainers in my city, but varied opinions makes the matchup discussion more interesting ^.^
Made it mahself. I man PT and Kirby so it's perfect =D
And yeah, now that I think about it, squirtles air game > fox's air game.
And a ff dair(without the last hit)>upsmash/reflex utilt lock works really well.
I've still found that in my experience Zard does well against most of the fox mainers in my city, but varied opinions makes the matchup discussion more interesting ^.^
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
Considering Reflex's Squirtle, I'd say that part of the matchup 100-0 our favor. Seriously, with an u-tilt lock to about 60% add in 7 aerials and a dthrow and Fox dies fast. Yeah, i know it's not that simple, but I think it's about 65-35 in our favor.
I agree with SSJ5Goku8932 on Ivysaur, so say 45-55 Fox.
On Charizard, I think it's about 55-45 us. Charizard is so much of a powerhouse that if Fox is anywhere close, Flamethrower and Rock Smash are ****. However, Fox is a lot faster, and his lasers rack damage in a hurry. If Charzard can get him offstage, which, being Charizard, is not that much of a chore, then Flamethrower for gimping is soooooooo **** it's not even funny.
So, averaging out the top 2 (Squirtle and Charizard) gives me 60-40 our favor.
I agree with SSJ5Goku8932 on Ivysaur, so say 45-55 Fox.
On Charizard, I think it's about 55-45 us. Charizard is so much of a powerhouse that if Fox is anywhere close, Flamethrower and Rock Smash are ****. However, Fox is a lot faster, and his lasers rack damage in a hurry. If Charzard can get him offstage, which, being Charizard, is not that much of a chore, then Flamethrower for gimping is soooooooo **** it's not even funny.
So, averaging out the top 2 (Squirtle and Charizard) gives me 60-40 our favor.
if the fox knows how to SDI really well, you should not be able to utilt to 60. against the fox here, i'm lucky to get to 40 sometimes. your timing has to be right on. not too early so he doesn't jump out, not too late so he can shield. the latter is more important, because fox falls so fast, he's able to shield if you are a hair off. i assume SDI down would help even more, but you could just utilt faster than normal if you can read it. REALLY good SDI can make Fox almost teleport horizontally and out of range of utilt. i've seen it happen to me a few times.
but that's just the utilt part, you can still grab or uair a few times regardless of how well they di (assuming you do so before they jump/shield/DI really hard horizontally.
lasers don't do that much damage to charizard because his dash speed is pretty good.
also, i think someone in the fox discussion mentioned that reflex's least favorite character to face, or one of them, is fox.
but that's just the utilt part, you can still grab or uair a few times regardless of how well they di (assuming you do so before they jump/shield/DI really hard horizontally.
lasers don't do that much damage to charizard because his dash speed is pretty good.
also, i think someone in the fox discussion mentioned that reflex's least favorite character to face, or one of them, is fox.
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
Eh, I get numbers that add up to 10 mixed up, so I might have meant 40 when I said 60. Why would Fox be any harder than Falco? he doesn't have a laser lock or a chaingrab, so I don't understand why anyone would rather figth a Falco than a Fox. I personally like the damge Fox's lasers can do so fast, but that's the only real reason I would prefer him over Falco. That and his slight more quickness. So, my question: why is Fox that bad of a matchup?
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
I didn't mean it like that. You just said Reflex hates facing Fox, so in that sense it's a bad matchup. Why would he hate facing Fox?
Shine kills.
Usmash kills.
Dair does decent damage and autocancels and it combos into EVERYTHING.
Those factors point out why Reflex may not like the Fox matchup.
In my experience, all fox players play like that, as camping for them doesn't work. And an agressive Fox can be a nightmare. If they get squirtle out of the way nice and early (an 80% usmash kill isn't uncommon) then the matchup is greatly shifted.
So your best bet would be to dthrow and switch to ivy when squirtle's at 80%. Fsmash or dash attack>snipe for the kill and clock up as much damage with bair combos and bseed before he takes stock 1. second stock Zard will do well and by the time he's good and gone, squirtle will be plenty refreshed and you'll have a feel for your opponent and already have the advantage so it should be a cake walk. =)
But that's just my $0.02
Usmash kills.
Dair does decent damage and autocancels and it combos into EVERYTHING.
Those factors point out why Reflex may not like the Fox matchup.
In my experience, all fox players play like that, as camping for them doesn't work. And an agressive Fox can be a nightmare. If they get squirtle out of the way nice and early (an 80% usmash kill isn't uncommon) then the matchup is greatly shifted.
So your best bet would be to dthrow and switch to ivy when squirtle's at 80%. Fsmash or dash attack>snipe for the kill and clock up as much damage with bair combos and bseed before he takes stock 1. second stock Zard will do well and by the time he's good and gone, squirtle will be plenty refreshed and you'll have a feel for your opponent and already have the advantage so it should be a cake walk. =)
But that's just my $0.02