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The Pokedex. PT doesn't care enough to analyze 120 matchups. (Update 7/16)

Steeler

Steeler

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lol updated.

i'd like to focus on correcting what we have, at the moment.
 
Toby.

Toby.

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I agree with Steeler. We've already covered the priority matchups, but a lot of the ratios don't reflect the current metagame anymore. It is far more important that we properly understand our D3 or Snake matchups rather than have a basic understanding of how we fare against, say, jigglypuff.
 
DemonFart

DemonFart

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I'm gonna go ahead and say....1. It was a hard choice, they're all weird looking,lol.

<3

Oh and, PT MATCHUPS ARE COOL STUFF.

:094:
 
Steeler

Steeler

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well they have both been done before...if we are going back through old matchups, i'd much rather go through people like snake and falco before we do GW.
 
D

dz1234

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Ike isn't that good against squirtle... my brother mains ike and marth, so i know this. For me, squirtle is best against both ike and marth.
 
D

dz1234

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Ike isn't that good on squirtle... my bro mains ike and marth, and squirtle is best against both of them.
 
sasook

sasook

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Hello PT mains. The Links discussed this matchup not long ago. The thing is, a while back, the Links had a huge fight with the mods and moved to AiB. While we did get some PTs to come and comment on the matchup, we realized many SWFers didn't have AiB accounts, so we thought of an idea - after the writeup, ask the SWF boards of said character to critique it.

Without further delay, here is the Link board's analysis of the matchup:


Charizard:

Link's Advantages

* Charizard is very big target making him easy to hit with projectiles and Zair.
* Charizard has no projectile and is forced to approach Link which can be difficult due to his size.
* Charizard has trouble with projectile spam offstage. They force him to use up his jumps.
* His size makes is easier to Jab Lock or GBAL him then other characters.

Charizard's Advantages

* Charizard's Flamethower can stop most of Link's projectiles and is very good for spacing and racking up damage.
* Charizard has 3 offstage jumps, the least in the game for those with multi-jumps, and can use them to Fair gimp you.
* Charizards weight can make him difficult to KO at times.
* Grab Release Combos that work very well on most characters.
* Very impressive Out of Shield game.

This is particular match-up shouldn't give either side that much trouble. Link is going to want to stay on the defensive since he gives himself an advantage with the ability to camp. Charizard is a very big target which makes him very easy to hit with said projectiles and makes him very easy to space against him with Zair. Charizard has the least jumps of any multi-jumper in this game and this should be taken advantage of offstage. Pressure him with arrows and gale boomerangs to force him into using his jumps so you can attempt to gimp with a Nair or something. Offstage Charizard can pose as a problem for Link. His Dair Spike has a bit of a disjoint on its bottom and is a very powerful spike even from low perecents. His sweet spot Fair is an amazing offstage weapon that can completely destory Link offstage. Charizard has a number of grab release tricks he can use on you. His OOS game is very good as well. His grab range is very good, Usmash OOS has great range and power, and his UpB OOS has Super Armor Frames on the start up and can KO if all hits connect. Link's Jab Cancel's can work very well against Charizard. Stick to using Jab Cancel>Grab, Jab Cancel>Usmash and Try and save Jab Cancel>Dsmash when you're ready to KO Zard.
Click to expand...
Squirtle:

Link's Advantages

* Squirtles light weight makes him very easy to KO.
* Projectiles and Zair can interfer with his aerial game.

Squirtle's Advantages

* Very quick and can close the distance between himself and Link very quickly.
* Amazing aerial game which gives him incredible combo potential in the air.
* Hydro Grabbing can be used to grab or to appraoch into Jabs or Dtilt.
* His RJCUsmash is very similar to a DAC, but it can KO pretty early.
* Squirtle's Water Gun can be used just like Mario's FLUDD. Link is very easy to gimp with this.

This match-up is going to be tough. Squirtle is fast, has fantastic combo potential, and is a very real threat offstage. Link has little chance here in this match-up. He's heavy, slow on the ground, and his projectiles are easy to get through with speed like Squirtles. Onstage you should focus on trying to predict his aerial approachs and stopping them with a Gale Boomerang or Zair. Double Draw has no real use in this match up due to Squirtle's size and speed. He could easily be infront of you by the second arrow. Try not to use this. Bair>Arrow Cancel is always a decent option to stop Squirtles from approaching you. Squirtle is very good offstage with the ability to throw multiple Fairs at you offstage which will gimp you. Squirtle also has Water Gun, a lesser version of Mario's FLUDD, but can be used in very similar ways and lets face it, it doesn't have to be that great to be able to gimp Link. Link's only real advantage in this match-up is that Squirtle dies very early to our KO moves like Dsmash, Dair, Fsmash, Ftilt, and Utilt.
Click to expand...
Ivysaur:

Link's Advantages

* Projectiles give Ivysaur some real trouble.
* Very easy to gimp, even for Link.
* Bombs have 2x the normal knockback due to Ivysaur's Grass Type.
* Link has little trouble dealing with Razor Leaf.

Ivysaur's Advantages

* Bullet Seed is an amazing damage racker on heavy characters like Link.
* Can space well with his Bair
* Razor Leaf can set up for grabs or other attacks.
* Very good Nair that Ivy can combo out of.
* One of the best Usmash's and Uair's in the game.

Wait..what's this..? Link has an advantage?! I must say. I don't know what to do here. I've never been given a match-up where I actually have a chance at winning. In all seriousness, this match-up should be the easiest of the three. Ivysaur has a lot of trouble dealing with Link's projectiles and even with his own he cannot camp on the same level as Link. Ivysaur onstage can be a little trouble if you don't know what to expect. Ivysaur can space very well with his Bair but take note of the small landing lag inbetween each one. This should be enough time to get close to him and hurt him with some jabs or jab cancels. Ivysaur offstage is very easy to gimp. Just by grabbing the ledge or Nair'ing him back out, it's pretty simple. Ivysaur will attempt to use Razor Leaf to keep you onstage at times. Just Nair through them and grab the ledge. Ivysaur won't be coming offstage a lot against you since he has to basically risk is life to get a gimp off on you, and the only thing he might be able to gimp you with is Bair.
Click to expand...
Other stuff:

Where should I stage CP Pokemon Trainer?
Take Pokemon Trainer to a place like Halberd or Norfair. The small blastzones and ceilings make it easy to KO all three of them. Squirtle will die extremely early, Charizard won't live as long as he's used to, and Ivy will die a little earlier as well. Final Destination or Smashville is always an option due to their camp friendly structure. Try and stay away from Battlefield here.
Click to expand...
We'd would greatly appreciate if you guys could comment on this. If you feel like something's wrong or a misconception, please do tell. Thanks guys ^_^


Btw, I would have posted this in the Link topic that is linked in the OP, but the last post was in like, October, and I didn't wanna get in trouble for necro bumping.
 
T

Tien2500

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Overall the Link's boards analysis seems pretty good. I'd add that if Zard can't outright gimp link flamethrower can edgeguard very well. I believe Zard has a mini chaingrab on Link. At 0% he can Bthrow to Fthrow which should put Link off the stage pretty early.

For offstage gimping Ivy can spike with Nair or Dair. Probably won't see this too much though.

Overall I don't think Link vs Ivy is much of an advantage for Link. Probably even. Maybe 55:45 Link at best. Bullet seed racks up damage really really well against Link. Ivy can also combo of a fast falled Bair.

As for stages I'm not so sure about Norfair. It should be ok for Ivy/Zard but Squirtle is going to be tough to deal with here. Also Ivy's problems recovering are decreased here a lot what with all the platforms.

Battlefield isn't an amazing stage for trainer so unless Link does poorly there in general (might make it harder to camp) there isn't much reason to avoid it. As long as you're careful on the platforms you'll be alright.

On Smashville (and other moving platform stages) trainer can switch with no lag.

But yeah good job. The Link boards seem really good with matchups.
 
Steeler

Steeler

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the bombs just have 10% more knockback (x1.1) not x2 lol. that would suck ***. it's that much weaker against squirtle too.

overall you guys got the gist of the matchup down. squirtle *****, zard is about evenish and momentum can swing quickly to either side, ivysaur is the worst of the three but not that bad. ivy bair cancels out all of link's projectiles so they are annoying but not devastating.
 
sasook

sasook

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Ok, cool, thanks guys. Much appreciated.

And btw, Link mains know how to DI out of that bullet seed really quick ;)
 
T-block

T-block

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Yeah looks pretty good.

Ivysaur's b-air can autocancel, so be careful when you say you can rush in after. You might be eating an f-tilt or something.
 
F

Fearmy

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t-block said:
Yeah looks pretty good.

Ivysaur's b-air can autocancel, so be careful when you say you can rush in after. You might be eating an f-tilt or something.
Click to expand...
agreed. Bair has the least amount of lag compared to the others as well. and the something could be a F-tilt, Grab, or a bullet seed.
 
sasook

sasook

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Just curious, what follow ups do you have out of bullet seed, provided we DI out of it? What follow ups do you have, should you end it early on purpose? I'd think a grab but I dunno how long Ivy's grab range is, considering we could jump away after getting out. Thanks in advance.
 
T-block

T-block

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No real follow-ups in the guaranteed sense. After we end early some people tend to try to use an aerial attack which can be shield-grabbed. I've landed f-smashes before too, but it really shouldn't happen >_> If you're smart about it, there's really nothing we can do to follow up.
 
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