The SBR official stance on Metaknight.

[Spelt]

it is true.
but no matter what there is always something to complain about, unfortunately.
people are never completely satisfied.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Hylian. There should be more obvious posts encouraging TOs to host MK-banned tourneys. Remind people that they still have their own choice to do so.

I think that's the least violent/controversial path the SBR can take. Banning him -by standard- would be pretty crazy, but just leaving him in and neglecting that all these debates have been taken so seriously is also going to generate a lot of hate.

I know you already posted and said you encourage this. I'm just saying it should definitely be enouraged more and more. It's the closest thing I can think of to bringing a healthy balance to the two sides.

 

[Kewkky]

Hylian, it has lots to do with the human mind wanting to place the blame on others, rather than stress over the difficulty of a problem themselves. It's usually selfishness in a distant form than the ones we usually see (greed for one).

Also laziness is a factor.

 

[Espy Rose]

When people are lost all they can do is try to blame the credentials. They take no notice of the fact that they can act according to their own beliefs and instead choose to complain.

This, I will never understand.

Hylian can't understand the simplicity of complaining over the complexity of acting on one's beliefs?

I guess. C'mon Hylian, step it up.

=Not taking sides or anything, I don't really care. I just thought something like that would be easy to understand for someone of your caliber.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

I expected this to happen.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Yes yes yes **** yes, I love SBR <3

 

[Commander_Beef]

Time to just wait for next year. Hopefully peoples' minds will be changed.

What he said. -_-...

 

[adumbrodeus]

Because technicalities are the only sense of reality we have sometimes.

all i'm saying is that it's kind of weird when you're accusing someone else of being biased, when in fact your accusation itself is probably filled with biases.

The important issue that that's being mentioned here is certain group have a far greater bias inherently.


Like me having a bias for the most logical course of action.

When people are lost all they can do is try to blame the credentials. They take no notice of the fact that they can act according to their own beliefs and instead choose to complain.

This, I will never understand.

Well, understand, there's a fair amount of general animosity towards the SBR period, part of it is perceptions that SBR isn't actually as good as it should be, part of it is disagreements with them, and part of it is this continuing issue.


Again, I'll state that it was premature to make this the "final" one, we sort of needed to deal with it on an evidence level first (which means actually correcting how we look at match-up, supporting that with empirical evidence, etc).

Now the perception that nothing was solved will fester and resentment will build.


SBR needs a PR guy imo.

 

[Browny]

Err am I missing something here, or does Hylian ban MK in all his tournaments while voting anti-ban here?

 

[Zankoku]

Hylian doesn't host tournaments.

 

[momochuu]

Err am I missing something here, or does Hylian ban MK in all his tournaments while voting anti-ban here?

You're thinking of Xyro.


>_>.

 

[Spelt]

The important issue that that's being mentioned here is certain group have a far greater bias inherently.


Like me having a bias for the most logical course of action.

i'm far too amused by your name being pink to give you an actual reply. @@
so this will have to do.

 

[Swordplay]

I personally really just want people to stop arguing all the time about it. We are all apart of the same community and some of the things I've seen said to others just because of their opinions on Metaknight have been pretty unwarranted.

Regardless of your stance, we need to move on.

Optimistic thinking. And I do think we should move on.

God, I had a friend who had an account during the items debate. it was nuts. It was like watching a friend waste his life on such a trivial matter. It drove him so nuts that he out right just left the smash community right around the time I began to look into competitive gaming. (SF and Capcom vs ...whoever FTW) (FAR earlier than when I created this account)

Unfortunately, I don't think the community will let you [SBR] off the hook so easily.

In my opinion what makes this different from the items debate is the metagames will progress further into one where MK is unstoppable or one into which a counter pick is eventually found. Only then do I think people will lay this to rest. Because unlike items which simply dropped one of the two meta games leaving a lack of evidence to a point where we would never back track, the MK argument well........I think a larger community with a steady stream of inflowing data along with some stubborn people will make this topic much harder to drop.



In the end though, you should be able to do what you want. Hell I say screw it. I don't play brawl much anymore. But I do play B+. I even play Item Standard Play in VB. Go do what you want people and stop bothering me.

 

[Vash!]

Boo on the whole metaknight thing, if more then half the people in smash say

"This character should be considered to be banned"

Then hell he should be, I never play as a camper, only a little with pit but I tried to toss in some hits with my what, 2inch dagger?

Its like Street Fighter, with Akuma, they banned him because everyone said, "Broken.." when he came into the picture, and he got banned, and everyone still played the game, and sure it sucks losing the character you've practiced for a while due to a vote. But yeah, I'm sure if I pick up metaknight for a good 3 weeks I'll be amazing, so not much input on that matter

Anyway, if you saw my wario play, total change of how I usually play, just to beat that metaknight FruitCake. It was pretty lame, I was close to getting up and giving up the match just because I was tired of hearing the MK spam tornado and Forward and Back airs. I couldn't get in unless I camped and spammed myself, and that dont seem like much of a grand final in my book. The last match ended with the time running out and both of us camping because we didn't want higher damage, uber lame. If I seriously see big upcoming tournaments with 4 or more MK's then count me out in brawl, I'll come back to it if they add in Smashballs, hah xD

Love and peace

 

[Browny]

You're thinking of Xyro.


>_>.

oh lol yes that explains a lot

 

[Toya]

I'm surprised the results of the other 3 polls weren't somehow part of the process. Many players, especially Melee players around here frown upon rule differences regarding SBR's "recommended/standard" rules.

Obviously most people wish to play in tournaments with the "general guide of standard play" directing the rules.

Unless more people like Xyro, Meta won't ever be banned at any large scale event, where the Mid level aspect really steps up.

I think the one kid's previous point is valid, in saying that most TOs will neglect what they feel is right, and follow the SBR's ruleset, because that's how the big scale tournaments do, and they want a large turnout.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I think the one kid's previous point is valid, in saying that most TOs will neglect what they feel is right, and follow the SBR's ruleset, because that's how the big scale tournaments do, and they want a large turnout.

You don't live in atlantic north dod you?

Our ruleset is SO non-standard it's not even funny.


For every event.

 

[cutter]

You don't live in atlantic north dod you?

Our ruleset is SO non-standard it's not even funny.


For every event.

What other big differences do you have other than banning Dedede's infinites?

Just curious. Oregon's ruleset is actually somewhat similar to AN in terms of stage legality (conservative), but the big thing is that we don't ban Dedede's infinites unlike you guys.

 

[adumbrodeus]

What other big qualm(s) are there other than:

*coughbanningD3infinites*

Just curious. Oregon's ruleset is actually somewhat similar to AN in terms of stage legality, but the big thing is that we don't ban Dedede's infinites.

Well, infinites in general (usually except ICs), also stages tend to be a great deal more conservative and the ledge-grab rule is almost universal.


In general, I oppose this, but I'm here, so what can I do?

 

[Toya]

I live in IL, nor do i play brawl very much, but i do play melee alot, and i haven't heard many rule changes in melee other than "Mushroom Kingdom 2" and "Princess Peach's Castle" being legal in some tournaments.

It would be interesting to see a large scale event make a major change that wasn't either frowned upon by "top players" or people just playing by the SBR's rules just because, they are the general/most fair as voted by top players and TOs.

Like, six stock matches or even any legal stage on random?

I don't see that happening, nor do I see Meta leaving any large scale tournament until the SBR listens the the majority of the people and "recommend" him to be banned.


The closer you tend to follow the SBR's rules, the more it seems your tournament is generally accepted as nicely ran. Banning a whole character is a big jump than making a stage or two legal.

 

[cutter]

Well, infinites in general (usually except ICs), also stages tend to be a great deal more conservative and the ledge-grab rule is almost universal.


In general, I oppose this, but I'm here, so what can I do?

I'm assuming you've tried convincing TOs there otherwise.

I can definately feel for you though. The big deal with infinites is that many of them like ICs and DDD infinites are non-interactive, and when something is non-interactive you're more than likely going to get people *****ing about it.

 

[Ax00x0]

Looking back at this whole debate now...

The only thing that really bothers me is the ignorance/selfishness of the elitist individuals that think the top of the metagame is the only thing that matters. This is a decision that affects the entire Smash community- not just the players that can consistently place in the money at regional/national tournaments, but also the players that fund those tourneys with their entry fees, which makes up a very, very large majority of the community.

That said, I hope anti-ban and pro-ban advocates alike can find the maturity to restrain themselves from stereotyping each other. After all, we're all after the same thing- a better community and a better game.

Quoted for freaking truth. I've been trying to tell this to people forever, but it unforetunatly keeps getting repeated (by a very specific side) over and over again, and I suspect it'll keep getting repeated.

Well, I suppose it's a good thing I live in Texas, then. <3 Xyro.

And New Mexico!

What was decided was decided, but, alas, I can only hope those areas struggling with MK overflux (PR, parts of Canada, etc.) don't expire now. Guess we will see in a year what impact this has had (as it's clear from both the public and SBR votes, this issue is far from resolved). Until, sleep well, you beast of a debate. Let the smashing commence.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I live in IL, nor do i play brawl very much, but i do play melee alot, and i haven't heard many rule changes in melee other than "Mushroom Kingdom 2" and "Princess Peach's Castle" being legal in some tournaments.

It would be interesting to see a large scale event make a major change that wasn't either frowned upon by "top players" or people just playing by the SBR's rules just because, they are the general/most fair as voted by top players and TOs.

Like, six stock matches or even any legal stage on random?

I don't see that happening, nor do I see Meta leaving any large scale tournament until the SBR listens the the majority of the people and "recommend" him to be banned.

I'm sorry that the changes aren't large enough for you, but that's a very substantial change to the metagame and the subject of a lot of debate, opposing the ruleset in the areas I mentioned ARE very substantial.

6 stock isn't gonna happen because it's just a standardization issue, it doesn't really change the metagame except a lot more matches will run to timer or we'll have to increase the timer. I don;t think anyone wants the matches to be 16 minutes.


Your randoms suggestion is the opposite, counterpicks are judged that way because they give substantial advantages to certain characters, I could see a change in what are counterpicks (and have), but making all counterpicks randoms? That's a suggestion that just stupid enough on it's merits to make nobody attend, just like 50 stock 99 minute timer brawl is.


Lol, if you think that, you must've never been to Texas or even heard of it. Here's a hint, Xyro runs massive MK-banned tournaments that draw a very large crowd.

Xyro's not the only one who runs mk-banned tournies either, merely the most obvious.

I'm assuming you've tried convincing TOs there otherwise.

I can definately feel for you though. The big deal with infinites is that many of them like ICs and DDD infinites are non-interactive, and when something is non-interactive you're more than likely going to get people *****ing about it.

Yes, pretty much.

I mean it doesn't affect me much, but it's the principal of the thing, you know? I'm an advocate for the "play to win" philosophy of gaming, and banning without sufficient justification (one bad match-up is not sufficient) strikes me as scrubbish.

 

[Toya]

i was just saying random things, i'm not about to go to a tournament where all the legal stages are on random.....

you obviously didn't understand what i was trying to say.

 

[adumbrodeus]

i was just saying random things, i'm not about to go to a tournament where all the legal stages are on random.....

you obviously didn't understand what i was trying to say.

No, I got it, you were trying to say they don't deviate much.


I was saying that they do, just not into the realm of stupidity, which both of your suggestions were.

 

[Brado]

Wow, this sucks, I'm honestly surprised that the SBR are so against the ban. We had an MK banned tournament this weekend, and it was by far the best I hads ever been too.

Ah well, I guess we can wait to see if there is another vote sometime in the future...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

People need to stop hoping that Meta Knight EVER gets banned but try to become actually good at this game instead.

 

[Toya]

so you changes were.....taking out infinites...

when my argument was just about SBR's "general rule set".

* 3 Stock

* 8 minute timer

* Items are set to "off" and "none"

* All sets with the exception of winner's finals, loser's finals, and the championship are best of 3 matches (best of 5 and above should be played out for any "finals" matches)

* In the event of a dispute, controller ports will be selected by Rock-Paper-Scissors

* No player may choose a stage they have already won on in that set unless agreed upon by both players.

* In team matches, the ports will be determined in a 1221 fashion; whoever wins the RPS will choose first, then the opposing team will get their ports, and then the teammate of the RPS winner will get the last port.

* If the timer runs out, the victor is determined first by stock and then by percentage.

* Metaknight's Infinite Cape glitch is banned.

* If a game ends with Bowser doing his suicide klaw and it ends in sudden death, the sudden death will be ignored and that game will count as a win for Bowser.

* You are responsible for your own controller and name tag. Any malfunctions or errors that occur are your responsibility, so bring an extra controller if possible and always check to make sure you're using the correct settings BEFORE a match is played. If a match is to be restarted due to controller functions, it must be agreed upon by both parties.

* Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.

* Stalling is banned.

You don't really see any major changes to that, nor any other thing in the ruleset.
Do you really think if SBR came out and said,"We would to ban all kinds of infinites." most TO's wouldn't just blindly listen? Where you around for the Wobble debate?


Meta seems to be, by far the best character, and the best choice for almost every situatiion.

My general point was that you're not going to see like, a SMYM's or a Genesis with Meta banned or Infinite Grabs banned.

 

[Nic64]

People need to stop hoping that Meta Knight EVER gets banned but try to become actually good at this game instead.

Right, because fiction, azen, chillin, havok, CO18, holy, hugs, lee martin, melee1, ninjalink, OBM, praxis, reflex, and utd zac are all a bunch of scrubs who just need to get better(just a quick scan of YES votes and memory, probably a lot of good players I missed).

I have no interest in the banning of meta knight btw, I main him and would likely quit the game if he were banned as over a year of my time would be wasted, I just objected to the mind numbing stupidity of that statement.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Right, because fiction, azen, chillin, havok, CO18, holy, hugs, lee martin, melee1, ninjalink, OBM, praxis, reflex, and utd zac are all a bunch of scrubs who just need to get better(just a quick scan of YES votes and memory, probably a lot of good players I missed).

Uh what? I didn't say "all pro-banners are scrubs lololololololo", I said people need to stop hoping that he'll get banned. This doesn't apply to people, who actually win vs MK like some of the people you mentioned (and those ARE "actually good" like NinjaLink and Fiction) but to people who say "let's wait for another vote and hope he'll get banned then".
There are pro-banners who are good enough to beat them consistently (although imo only few people in your list are really good enough) but it's pretty obvious that my post wasn't directed towards them but to random poster #234876 who prefers to wait for another instead of becomeing actually good.

 

[Vyse]

In my opinion what makes this different from the items debate is the metagames will progress further into one where MK is unstoppable or one into which a counter pick is eventually found. Only then do I think people will lay this to rest.

Doesn't sound too different to the situation we saw in early Melee.

I remember a time when using Fox against Peach was suicide.

I remember a time when Marth seemed like an extremely average character, then this guy named sephirothKen came out of nowhere and beat MattDotZeb.

Of course the circumstances were extremely different back then, but still, even with the heights Melee reached in 05-06, that game is still evolving today too.

 

[Arora]

it's over proban will never get 2/3

 

[yellowroy]

lol brawl did something right.

 

[:mad:]

it's over proban will never get 2/3

It already is over.

 

[mountain_tiger]

It already is over.

Er, that's what he said, wasn't it?

 

[Nic64]

Uh what? I didn't say "all pro-banners are scrubs lololololololo", I said people need to stop hoping that he'll get banned. This doesn't apply to people, who actually win vs MK like some of the people you mentioned (and those ARE "actually good" like NinjaLink and Fiction) but to people who say "let's wait for another vote and hope he'll get banned then".
There are pro-banners who are good enough to beat them consistently (although imo only few people in your list are really good enough) but it's pretty obvious that my post wasn't directed towards them but to random poster #234876 who prefers to wait for another instead of becomeing actually good.

Still seems like a pointless dig to me, I don't think there is an overall difference in skill between the two sides for the most part, there are scrubs, intermediates, and top players on both sides, it's a philosophical issue, not a "you're bad at the game" issue.

 

[Kewkky]

Still seems like a pointless dig to me, I don't think there is an overall difference in skill between the two sides for the most part, there are scrubs, intermediates, and top players on both sides, it's a philosophical issue, not a "you're bad at the game" issue.

Point well said! You cannot deny that there are also people who both use MK and/or simply find it detrimental to the game, banning a character in their favorite game series' most recent installment. Don't randomly throw out that the pro-ban side has a larger concentration of scrubs than the anti-ban unless you measure it yourself and filter all the pro's and alt accounts from the poll results.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Finally, now I can not worry about the build up of Diddy Kong mains. It seems that everyone who uses Meta Knight uses Diddy Kong or Wario anyways... strangely. †

 

[Kewkky]

♪ Finally, now I can not worry about the build up of Diddy Kong mains. It seems that everyone who uses Meta Knight uses Diddy Kong or Wario anyways... strangely. †

It *may* have to do with their sudden addition into the top tier.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ It might be. †

♪ I'm just surprised I didn't see a high amount of them using Snake or Falco.... or even D3. I guess it's a strange world I suppose. †