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"The Triforce of Knowledge" Ganon's Match-Up Guide: Character Review, Kirby.

Ray_Kalm

Ray_Kalm

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adumbrodeus said:
...

You people seem to be missing something important and gamechanging.


Ganondorf has a safe on block dtilt and Falcon doesn't have any same on block approaches.


It's nowhere near even when properly played.
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Wouldn't that just be saying that Ganon has a safe and Falcon doesn't in general?

Flying Dutchman said:
l2space

You're saying our bair is worse than Falcon's because of it's speed, yet it comes out at the same time, and both autocancel. Falcon's has less lag, but what does it matter when you can autocancel it to have NO lag?



First of all, your 'plan' has nothing to do with the discussion at hand and second of all, I've already used him in tournament so where you at.

Also, even though my arguments are 'crappy', you say nothing about my fair argument. Oh wait! Maybe it's because I'm actually right.



You might be listening to opinions, but you're always downgrading Ganondorf way too much. I realize that you probably want is for him to be the worst so everybody will underestimate him so that you can ****, but I just can't stand for that.

You are listening to opinions, but pretty much only to the worst. For instance, the PT match-up, PT mains said that some of the Pokémon definitely have trouble with Ganondorf and that it could be close to 50:50 overall, then there were some buttholes who said that was wrong and hey! Suddenly your match-up chart has another 30:70 on it because of Squirtle (not a 70:30 at all). I call bias, but whatever. You have your ideas, I have mine.
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buuuuut because I'm way too lazy I won't be replying to it anymore..
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Yeah.

Flying Dutchman said:
l2space
Click to expand...
Falcon's Up + B has more priority, whether the tipmans are spaced properly or not.

Flying Dutchman said:
You're saying our bair is worse than Falcon's because of it's speed, yet it comes out at the same time, and both autocancel.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am.

Flying Dutchman said:
Falcon's has less lag, but what does it matter when you can autocancel it to have NO lag?
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You can't automatically cancel all the lag by just autocanceling. Some moves that can't punish Falcon, will punish Ganon on a power shielded BAir.
 
Sliq

Sliq

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Messages
4,871
hyperstation said:
Sliq, I had a monocle, top hat and pipe long before that lame dinosaur of yours got one. l2avatar.
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I've been on smashboards longer, have been alive longer, have been playing competitive smash longer...stop me when it's enough.

l2knowyourrolejabroni
 
hyperstation

hyperstation

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Joined
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Sliq said:
I've been on smashboards longer, have been alive longer, have been playing competitive smash longer...stop me when it's enough.

l2knowyourrolejabroni
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l2slowyrroll, papi.

LOL. I'm older than you, baby.

Being on SWF longer and playing competitively longer PALES in comparison to my Ganon sporting a BETTER monocle and BETTER, MINK top hat than your bowser's janky get-up.

l2dressyrself. Yr turtledragondinosaur looks like sh*t. Let's not even talk about the BRIAR pipe my Ganon smokes and the PURP he dranks.

<3 Sliq jus playin'...but I look better than you.
 
Koskinator

Koskinator

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Ok, I'm gonna go ahead and state a few facts k?

@ Dutchman/Kalm- Falcon has a better bair and nair. We have a better fair, uair, dair. And, Ganon>Falcon always forever no matter what.

@ Kalm- You will pull any bull**** excuse out of your *** to make Ganon seem worse than he actually is, and these boards are tired of it. If you can't support the character you main, go main someone else.

@ DAD- Of course you look better.

@ Sliq- Bowser is a giant sand filled vag. Come main Ganon again.
 
@

@HomE

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Minnesota
Koskinator said:
Ok, I'm gonna go ahead and state a few facts k?

@ Dutchman/Kalm- Falcon has a better bair and nair. We have a better fair, uair, dair. And, Ganon>Falcon always forever no matter what.

@ Kalm- You will pull any bull**** excuse out of your *** to make Ganon seem worse than he actually is, and these boards are tired of it. If you can't support the character you main, go main someone else.

@ DAD- Of course you look better.

@ Sliq- Bowser is a giant sand filled vag. Come main Ganon again.
Click to expand...
Oh **** .... and I didn't think I could possibly <3 Kosk more (no homo)(well maybe just a little)
 
PK-ow!

PK-ow!

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hyperstation said:
You f*ckin kidding me?

Kalm writes a novel for each match-up. Read the OP.
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A novel can be poorly organized.

His complaint has some backing. It's hard to see the data I want to see, and hard to know what I'm looking at, what's next, or where my 'target' information is.

Related note: What's another word I could have used instead of 'targeted'? I feel at a total loss for this idea in English... you know, to describe the thing which is the object of my desire or aspiration in the immediate future.


I don't understand all the tenseness about proclamations of fraternity and homoeroticism.
I can say I love Koskinator. ...and just leave it there.

Is it homo?
Well, I wonder.
 
Vader

Vader

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
13
lol, on the match-up chart on the first page i think the ratio for olimar is messed up a little bit
 
PK-ow!

PK-ow!

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ShinGaruda said:
...I never had to do that?! That **** was hot, too!
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Oh God.

I've derailed our matchup thread.

I'm so sorry. DDDDDDD:


About the Wario chain, I had someone use this on me in tournament. I was so pissed I didn't know about it. It is a rather huge number, but it's not infinite. It is standing, however.

I somehow never got a chance to grab release him...
 
Teronist09

Teronist09

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Joined
Nov 19, 2008
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Greenville NC
Clai said:
Wario's down-throw can chaingrab Ganon to about 60%, I believe. Ganondorf has an infinite on Wario, assuming we actually get the grab off, of course.
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If it's only 60% ish I guess that'd be Kirby-esque. Shouldn't change the matchup too much. I've had problems getting out of it before, but it was wifi so it didn't mean much.
 
PK-ow!

PK-ow!

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ShinGaruda said:
Pretty much, I'm afraid. But we're used to it.
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We just finished talking about why Ganon is better than Falcon.
. . . it's almost saddening because it destroys the universal statement, but there it is.

Kosk claimed Ganon>Falcon always forever. Kalm didn't butt in with his negativity before Squirrely changed the topic to Wario, and then apparently I mindgamed everyone with my declaration of agape for Koskinator.

. . . :urg:
 
ShinGaruda

ShinGaruda

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Okay, minus Captain Falcon. But who honestly cares about that guy?

Also, jk.

Okay, uh... grab-release and do stuff, flame choke to jab him, I dunno, I don't speak in technical terms.

*leaves thread*
 
S

Squirrely

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Wario is terrifying. He excels at aerial attacks and feints and can be extremely annoying when he's bobbing in and out with b-airs, n-airs, and especially d-airs and air dodges. And just about all of his aerials are often landed laglessly which can lead into bites, grabs, f-smashes or more aerials. A huge pain in the *** to deal with. I recommend a quick u-air to deal with Wario when he takes to the sky; it's very fast and should knock him out of any aerial attack.

Spacing is extremely vital. Wario just doesn't have the range Ganon does so take advantage of that. D-tilt for when he's on the ground and u-air for when he's in the air. Wario moves extremely quick in the air so always assume that's where he's heading.

Kill moves to watch out for are f-smash, f-tilt if they see you spot dodging a lot, and a u-air if they've been keeping it fresh. Also if they get in close and jab, I think Wario can jab cancel into several things such as a grab or f-smash.

When you get Wario off-stage, you'll have to outsmart him to kill him. You can't tipman him off his bike and Wario's air dodge tends to last through anything we throw at him. Most will try to recover high so they can air dodge their way back onto the stage at their leisure. As usual for anyone going against anyone who is trying to recover using air dodges, delay an attack to screw them over. Stomping him off his bike is tricky since most will immediately jump off once it's been pulled out but it's the most pleasure inducing way to kill Wario. Also! Remember Wario doesn't have any ledge sweet-spotting moves. Spike and u-tilt if his only option is to up-b or air dodge straight up.

Wario is known for gimping, especially with f-airs and bike tossing, so be on your toes. I think you can destroy the bike with u-air as well as frustrate most of his gimp attempts if well spaced. Ganon's up-b also tends to out-prioritze his attacks. However, Wario can ledgehog you as easily as anyone can AND he has an annoying tactic off immediately u-airing you once you survive the ledgehog and land laggily on stage. ( Argh Blue Rogue )

He has a nasty d-throw that can be tricky to escape from. I've broken out early many times but I can never tell if it's because the Wario screwed up. Needs more testing.

No guaranteed choke follow-ups :( Have to use your brain for this match-up.

Bottom line:
Wario will have a field day with you if you let him control the air. U-air and retreating f-airs work wonders.
As always play it smart on the ground. Choke and stomp when given the opportunity. Don't get suckered into bites and be aware that half-wafts (takes about 90 secs to charge) are very deadly if landed.

It's really not that bad of a match-up, despite the Li vs. Kite video.
maybe 40-60 Wario's favor since d-airs, grabs and off-stage game can do a number if connected.
 
ShinGaruda

ShinGaruda

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I think the techchasing game is Wario's true downfall against Ganondorf. As well as grab-release options. On top of that, he shouldn't be too difficult to thunderstomp. While he still has some advantage over Ganondorf, he's more or less an annoyance.
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

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Vs Wario:

It's one of Ganon's better matchups discounting the grab madness IMO. As in...he doesn't lose THAT severely against Wario. I'd go with 6/4 Wario.

Mainly because U-air spamming is good for Ganon. It's something that is moderately difficult for Wario to work past due to his poor range and priority on most attacks.

Grab release F-smash, Up-smash, etc are all very helpful in scoring that KO or getting free damage on him. Pivot grab a lot I guess if you think you can predict an approach. Then again...it's a lot easier for Wario to get grabs....=/
 
MorphedChaos

MorphedChaos

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You forget, Your a giant pinata for a waft kill, and once your offstage, you lose to a Fair gimp. And with Ganon having the worst grab in the game, GL grabbing Wario, hes the hardest one to grab in the entire game. 7:3 Wario due to CG to Fsmash.
 
PK-ow!

PK-ow!

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Squirrely said:
Spacing is extremely vital. Wario just doesn't have the range Ganon does so take advantage of that. D-tilt for when he's on the ground and u-air for when he's in the air. Wario moves extremely quick in the air so always assume that's where he's heading.
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When will he ever be on the ground?
Why won't Wario just jump to carve out the hitbox of dtilt, wait until you commit, and land riskless fairs and dairs?

When he is close he has CG, Fsmash, you know, anything he wants pretty much.
Somehow no one has mentioned his DACUS yet. I wonder if he can trade hits with stomp, with that or utilt.

And oh sweet Jesus, I hate his mouth. Let's say I predict the mouth and I have like 13 frames. What should I do?


Waft I don't see being relevant. Perhaps you could be more clear, MorphedChaos.

Question: Will fair disrupt a Murder choke?
 
MorphedChaos

MorphedChaos

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Flare choke isn't all that good, unless your next to Wario, I can see a sidestep dodge to Fsmash if you do it, but meh. For your stomp, I don't think DACUS or Utilt can trade hits with it, but you guys keep thinking Wario will be on the ground. Hes in the air most of the time, so I dunno why you mention all your stuff with fighting Wario on the ground, how often will it occur?
 
S

Squirrely

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I like how I got quoted and hassled for suggesting what to do if he's on the ground when I immediately said right after that you should always assume he'll be going for you in the air...

Sigh.
 
@

@HomE

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Ganon shoudn't even have a Match-Up chart at this point is should be a "how big of a hill do we have to climb chart"
 
stRIP

stRIP

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Dont think its grabrelease

it has nothing to do with the grab

need to test it at first with Z1GMA but hes off, so we will do it tomorrow.
 
Clai

Clai

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MorphedChaos said:
And with Ganon having the worst grab in the game, GL grabbing Wario, hes the hardest one to grab in the entire game. 7:3 Wario due to CG to Fsmash.
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Ganon only has the shortest grab range; his actual grab is actually the fastest in the game. Besides, why would Wario want to close in on a grab to do the chaingrab when he risks getting infinited?

Besides, Ganondorf has a decent aerial game himself, and since he's so slow on the ground, Ganon should probably be spending most of this time in the air as well. If you play him fluid, I say Ganon has a pretty good chance of dealing with Wario's aerial shenanigans.

40:60 sounds like the right number to me
 
Z1GMA

Z1GMA

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stRIP... That was a SICK discovery!! To think I've never even thought of that O_o'

From here on, everytime i connect with a Gerudo on Wario, it's a garanteed 42% no matter what his % he has.
This plus grabrelease -> Fsmash gets you A LOT of free damage on him :lick:
If this works with up angeled Fsmash, it'll even be 44% ¤_¤

But 90-10 in Ganon's favor Vs Wario, just because this combo? Naa... You're overating it big time.
I honestly think it makes the matchup 50:50 though...

You should make a vid of it... Or maybe I can do it?

This might as well work on other floaty characters too.
 
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