-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Wario's Week 16 Matchup REDISCUSSION: MetaKnight
- Thread starter Padô
- Start date
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Why not post it?
Padô
Smash Lord
I'd be VERY grateful if you did.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
PX says it 60:40
slikvik
Smash Master
If mk plays super safe, you're not getting in. this MU blows
Corrupted
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
- Messages
- 446
Lol I've actually got I written down on paper. I was kinda bored I guess.
I don't have time to type it out atm but I'll have it up by tomorrow around 8 GMT.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
8 GMT is 3 EST Right ? I'll be looking forward to it man.
Padô
Smash Lord
Scan it.
Host on Imageshack.us then send me via pm and I type it down.
Hmm. I would say 45-55 mks advantage. I havent played any amazing mk's offline though so 40-60 is viable too.
A few things:
1) Punish his up-b with claps and dairs
2)You can try the bike toss gimp if hes far away off stage and your sure you have enough time to get it out and throw it. If your bike is on stage, safest way to get rid of it is doing the bike jump (Jump +side-b) while bike is on the floor then just immediately jumping off so your bike bounces off the stage.
3) I have found that one of the best times to fart on him is when he's in glide mode. They rarely expect it and you can either trade hits or land the fart in most cases. Just be sure to jump at them from below.
4)If they are spamming retreating sh fairs, bike towards them and try to time it so you hit right as they land from their last fair.
5) ALWAYS expect a tornado. If you are anticipating it then it is so much easier to punish with f-smash or dair for massive damage. I find that mk's most commonly nado when they are hanging on the ledge and want a safe way to get back on stage or after they have used all their jumps.
6) When youre playing mk, randomly run towards him and sheild. Sometimes you can catch them off guard by getting into their "bubble" and end get an fthrow.
That's all I got for now. I'll add more if I can think of anything else.
A few things:
1) Punish his up-b with claps and dairs
2)You can try the bike toss gimp if hes far away off stage and your sure you have enough time to get it out and throw it. If your bike is on stage, safest way to get rid of it is doing the bike jump (Jump +side-b) while bike is on the floor then just immediately jumping off so your bike bounces off the stage.
3) I have found that one of the best times to fart on him is when he's in glide mode. They rarely expect it and you can either trade hits or land the fart in most cases. Just be sure to jump at them from below.
4)If they are spamming retreating sh fairs, bike towards them and try to time it so you hit right as they land from their last fair.
5) ALWAYS expect a tornado. If you are anticipating it then it is so much easier to punish with f-smash or dair for massive damage. I find that mk's most commonly nado when they are hanging on the ledge and want a safe way to get back on stage or after they have used all their jumps.
6) When youre playing mk, randomly run towards him and sheild. Sometimes you can catch them off guard by getting into their "bubble" and end get an fthrow.
That's all I got for now. I'll add more if I can think of anything else.
slikvik
Smash Master
My Match-up summary below
"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."
"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."
YagamiDark
Smash Journeyman
Just saying, when a bee stings something it dies. :D
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
actually bees only die when they sting mammals due to our thick skin
Bees always die, *****. Their stingers are like a switch blade, and for whatever dumb reason, built into their body along with a bunch of vital organs. The second they whip it out, they're dead.
Really though, people should use wasps or hornets for that analogy.
Really though, people should use wasps or hornets for that analogy.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
bees sting though and ali is yhe greatest.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
they die because their stingers are barbed and get stuck in your skin, and when they pull out they rip it off.
while researching this i also found out that when a queen bee mates she rips off the male bee's junk and absorbs it so she never has to mate again <_<
TheLastCacely
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2009
- Messages
- 6,937
i know this is an old thread, but could someone please explain how aggro mk's are easy to ****? how can u punish them like that when all there moves are basically lagless.
- and i know my profile looks like an mk main, but i main wario.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Shield Grab.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Yeah MK is pretty easy to shield grab if the player is being too aggressive. Also, they leave themselves open to fart a lot more.
I was playing Eggz a while ago, and he is hella aggressive. Lemme tell you, it was a close *** match. The first 2 kills in the 3rd match were from getting super armor on my Fsmash, and the last kill was a total DBZ moment. It was on Brinstar, and he was gliding towards me, I jumped and biked up to meet him in the air (I'm pretty aggressive too), but I had a plan. He glide attacked me, and I timed my fart (1 min charge) to hit him at the same time. We both shot off in opposite directions, he died off the side and I star KOed. He died first
This was first round of a tournament btw. He was like "This game is gay" but I was like lololololl ggs!
I was playing Eggz a while ago, and he is hella aggressive. Lemme tell you, it was a close *** match. The first 2 kills in the 3rd match were from getting super armor on my Fsmash, and the last kill was a total DBZ moment. It was on Brinstar, and he was gliding towards me, I jumped and biked up to meet him in the air (I'm pretty aggressive too), but I had a plan. He glide attacked me, and I timed my fart (1 min charge) to hit him at the same time. We both shot off in opposite directions, he died off the side and I star KOed. He died first
This was first round of a tournament btw. He was like "This game is gay" but I was like lololololl ggs!
Dynomite
Smash Champion
Yes tires are amazing against mk BUT!!! DONT EVER RISK GETTING GIMPED BY LEAVING YOUR BIKE ON STAGE. MK IS A BUTTHOLE!
Damage Points
Smash Ace
People still think this is 55-45??
leatherhead93
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 467
We have all learned that lesson the hard way
Dynomite
Smash Champion
I retract what i said long ago about mk wario being 50-50.. It is NOT 50-50 mk can outcamp wario, has more range, better recovery, faster, and has an easier time killing then wario does.
60-40.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
How did quoting an apparent ****** emphasize your point.
This is Wario's best MU, or, it's not terrible.
I'll keep it simple, because I have little battery life, but after playing him for a short time, last weekend I took Tearbear to Last game, and Tyrant to last stock last hit, and I go relatively even with M2K in friendlies. Tyrants Wario is actually really good, m2K can't beat it.
So after watching a bunch of friendlies, it's my conviction that this is not horrible for Wario, and I don't expect any of you to believe me, until I actually do something with my Wario but...
Anyway, This MU is literally all about nailing those buffers, and using the ultimate patients to punish. Every time you jump with Wario, you should literally be jumping backward. A short hop, jumping backward. This way, you have so much momentum that you can punish his Fair with your Fair, his Ftilt with your Ftilt, his Tornado with your Waft or your Dair. And you can all do this with small prediction and mostly reaction.
MK doesn't have anything to punish your SH retreating jump, and you have everything to punish him.
Now lets talk about Warios Dair. When you Dair with wario, there's a point in time before you auto cancel on the floor that you can do another ariel. After the Dair, if you buffer a jumping Nair, you can connect both hits to Grab. Or if you buffer your shield upon landing you do not get punished by any attack that MK has. So, pretty much after a full hopped Dair, you have a plethora of options against MK.
After a Dthrow, walking a few steps forward, and then downairing in the other direction baits the Dsmash or the Ftilt and punishes it perfectly.
Your Ftilt is a good mixup when you land on the ground after your retreating jump, because it stops everything MK can do out of a Dash, and it also silences Tornado.
It's all about the jump back. The Facade approach. It's great.
I can't give this MU a Number. It depends on the Wario, and rarely the MK.
I'll keep it simple, because I have little battery life, but after playing him for a short time, last weekend I took Tearbear to Last game, and Tyrant to last stock last hit, and I go relatively even with M2K in friendlies. Tyrants Wario is actually really good, m2K can't beat it.
So after watching a bunch of friendlies, it's my conviction that this is not horrible for Wario, and I don't expect any of you to believe me, until I actually do something with my Wario but...
Anyway, This MU is literally all about nailing those buffers, and using the ultimate patients to punish. Every time you jump with Wario, you should literally be jumping backward. A short hop, jumping backward. This way, you have so much momentum that you can punish his Fair with your Fair, his Ftilt with your Ftilt, his Tornado with your Waft or your Dair. And you can all do this with small prediction and mostly reaction.
MK doesn't have anything to punish your SH retreating jump, and you have everything to punish him.
Now lets talk about Warios Dair. When you Dair with wario, there's a point in time before you auto cancel on the floor that you can do another ariel. After the Dair, if you buffer a jumping Nair, you can connect both hits to Grab. Or if you buffer your shield upon landing you do not get punished by any attack that MK has. So, pretty much after a full hopped Dair, you have a plethora of options against MK.
After a Dthrow, walking a few steps forward, and then downairing in the other direction baits the Dsmash or the Ftilt and punishes it perfectly.
Your Ftilt is a good mixup when you land on the ground after your retreating jump, because it stops everything MK can do out of a Dash, and it also silences Tornado.
It's all about the jump back. The Facade approach. It's great.
I can't give this MU a Number. It depends on the Wario, and rarely the MK.
leatherhead93
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 467
I honestly think ddd is harder matchup than mk but thats just me.
Sky were they playing super gay or fairly aggresive?
Sky were they playing super gay or fairly aggresive?
leatherhead93
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 467
Also thats true mk is good at baiting wario thinking he has good openings :/
Padô
Smash Lord
I think what Masky's wanted to say is that MK can cover easily the ground you are letting go, so he starts to put you in a bad position and abuse from you with his rnge and transcedent priority. Honestly, having MK in the air while you are on the ground is really not a bad idea and by jumping too much Wario gets in the air WITH MK and this is generally a bad idea.
leatherhead93
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 467
Ahhh i c now
Indeed (h)
Indeed (h)
Blue Rogue
Smash Ace
hai guys am I contributing rite?
In summary, none of this works as a reliable/safe way to get hits, but if they let it work, then do it. The risk/reward or whatever is usually against Wario though.
I'm starting to like utilt here. MKs have been mixing up dair camping with just FF ADs when I try to just jump and uair at then ;(. Just standing below then and spamming utilt until they use some jumps seems to be working. Also I think it beats nado...
It's his worst.
Are there any active Warios around there anymore? And I think M2k's only half-way decent vs. Wario from what he's let me do to him. Not as bad as Diddy but yeah.
You're basically describing Wario's game lol. I'm curious as to how you're punishing MK's fair with a fair if you're jumping before him, and how you're punishing ftilts on reaction...
If you're SH close enough to him to where you're looking for a bait/punish, he can just nado. If not, you'll run out of stage eventually/ you're getting no where. Of course if they just run at you while you do this you could get stuff to work... But they shouldn't.
yep yep, but MK shouldn't be letting you get close enough to do any of this dair approach stuff most of the time as a way to approach. If he just stands there while you jump above him and he shields when you jump at him, go ahead and dair at him.
Wait, full hop? Or dair bombs?
NO ONE, especially MK, should let dthrow stuff happen anymore, they can just run/jump/roll away. But again, as with the dair thing, if they let it work, do it. IMO you're better off uthrowing and catching them being stupid that way. lolairspeed.
Decent mixup? Maybe. But it doesn't beat shield if they can get close enough, and any farther away they shouldn't be running at you, and they'll have enough time to react and shield/ reset the situation. I can still get hits by just throwing out ftilts when mk is far away from me though, it's stupid.
In summary, none of this works as a reliable/safe way to get hits, but if they let it work, then do it. The risk/reward or whatever is usually against Wario though.
That's Wario. That, and camping.
I'm starting to like utilt here. MKs have been mixing up dair camping with just FF ADs when I try to just jump and uair at then ;(. Just standing below then and spamming utilt until they use some jumps seems to be working. Also I think it beats nado...
hunger!
Smash Champion
first off. blue, you basically covered everything in sky's post i wanted. second, blue, your sig is very wrong <3
ok sky. blue described to you how WRONG your post was. metaknight IS wario's worst matchup. (him and d3 imo) blue went over everything i would have fixed. If you're still using full hop dair and it's working, then people dont hold down vs you (every character can just hold down, not SDI, just hold it) Dair is only good if you poke with t he last hits then follow up imo. It's not an amazing aerial like people think. It's very punishable at top level.
Also, when you said m2k cant beat tyrants wario, LOL wtf. M2k JV3'd him at bio4 so i hope your post was made before that happened.
And yes blue, strong uptilt hitbox beats nado.
ok sky. blue described to you how WRONG your post was. metaknight IS wario's worst matchup. (him and d3 imo) blue went over everything i would have fixed. If you're still using full hop dair and it's working, then people dont hold down vs you (every character can just hold down, not SDI, just hold it) Dair is only good if you poke with t he last hits then follow up imo. It's not an amazing aerial like people think. It's very punishable at top level.
Also, when you said m2k cant beat tyrants wario, LOL wtf. M2k JV3'd him at bio4 so i hope your post was made before that happened.
And yes blue, strong uptilt hitbox beats nado.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
yeah and sky your post also assumes MK is going to approach <__<
i wish MKs always approached
i wish MKs always approached
Mew2King
King of the Mews
Sky is better than almost all of you ******s here. Listen to him douchebags. He has been improving a lot lately.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
They are still salty about MLG.
Damage Points
Smash Ace
What's the best way to dair then if full hop dairs are bad???
Blue Rogue
Smash Ace
Why u seem mad? ;( Nothing wrong with discussion.