Which stage do YOU consider to be the most competitive?

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Inconsistency is not the same as randomness.

inb4getitright

How?

10yougetitright

Please stop saying this. This has been shown to be false. The time between and during hazards is not consistent.

O rly?

(Prof or it didn't happen)

 

[Zatchiel]

and, btw, I am talking about MU ratios.

As a whole, we're talking about the most competitive stage.

It is incredibly diverse. The problem is the very little warning it gives you, and the inherent problems in that. You get, depending on the hazard, maybe a second of warning. While it is true that there's that safe zone, there's still the issue that randomly, bad positions may be severely amplified, or might not. The gameplay is severely different if I get knocked offstage and try to recovery if the spikes come up, or if the dividing line comes up and gimps me. It can lead to quite serious inconsistencies; I'd place it as "barely legalizable".

Nice response is nice.

Basically, I don't see little warning as an issue if your opponents gives you none.

Do you know what you're saying? :/ BPC gave a legit instance, and quite frankly, i see similar events all the time. You don't need any type of luck for this to happen at any time. May i repeat: The stage in itself is one massive item.

How?

Open a dictionary.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

O rly?

(Prof or it didn't happen)

T-Block posted about it at some point. It's not usually a huge difference, but it's not constant.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Open a dictionary.

Okay, they're different. My point still stands.

T-Block posted about it at some point. It's not usually a huge difference, but it's not constant.

Care to show me?

Also, I don't think pictochat is the most competitive stage. Just sayin.

 

[AvaricePanda]

want to be shown? turn on your wii and PLAY ON THE STAGE.

It's so hard to argue with people so adamant their opinions are right yet they say things like, "Picto transformations last 13 seconds each!" or "Just fast-fall during PS2s air transformation and it's fine!"

 

[ADHD]

Dark Horse is just another noob.

 

[clowsui]

want to be shown? turn on your wii and PLAY ON THE STAGE.

It's so hard to argue with people so adamant their opinions are right yet they say things like, "Picto transformations last 13 seconds each!" or "Just fast-fall during PS2s air transformation and it's fine!"

I don't have a Wii 8D

 

[AvaricePanda]

I don't have a Wii 8D

lololol fine.

point is, no, Picto's transformations don't last 13.33 seconds each. I'm not really sure where that rumor came from cause if you just play on the stage once you'll see otherwise :x

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

want to be shown? turn on your wii and PLAY ON THE STAGE.

It's so hard to argue with people so adamant their opinions are right yet they say things like, "Picto transformations last 13 seconds each!" or "Just fast-fall during PS2s air transformation and it's fine!"

Incorrect. Each picture lasts for 13.3333 seconds, the wait in between drawings is 13.3333 seconds, and a drawing will not appear again until all the other ones have been drawn

Far from random.

I never said it lasted 13 seconds.

Dark Horse is just another noob.

Flame me all you want, it just means your argument sucks.

Edit: sorry, advarice panda, missed your last post. A couple of things:

1. It's 13.3333 seconds
2. It came from a thread, I forget where.
3. Do an 8-minut timer test, and show it to me. Make sure to include the ten thousandths.

 

[AvaricePanda]

13.3333 seconds vs. 13 seconds—I'm pretty sure you know that I knew what you meant.

Did you turn on your Wii and try playing on Pictochat? I didn't have to do an 8-minute timer test including the ten-thousandths (do you mean hundredths anyway, i don't think there's a timer that goes to the ten-thousandths in this game). I played on it for a minute and this happened.

First picture came at 7:58.5, disappeared at 7:46. Second picture came at 7:39, disappeared at 7:23. Third picture came at 7:17, disappeared at 7:03.

If you do math neither the pictures nor the time between them came at 13.3333 seconds each. Maybe the first one was but none of the others came that close. The pictures come close to around 13 seconds each with a few seconds of discrepancy, but the time between drawings isn't even close.

No one has to do a test for you though, JUST TURN ON YOUR WII AND PLAY ON THE STAGE. I know it came from a thread somewhere but i have no clue where they got that information because it's just false. There was a 2nd thread afterwards that showed it to be false anyway.

It's harder to consider your arguments 100% valid when you cling to misinformation and then just discard other things, like when ADHD said on the air transformation when you get hit you go flying and it takes a considerable amount of time to land again, you just said, "not really," and, "fast-falling, look it up," in order to seemingly justify the air transformation to be perfectly fine.

@ anyone, what stages do you consider are more competitive than Battlefield (or Smashville)? People keep saying they're "okay, but..."—well, what's better in your opinion (aside from PS2)?

 

[UberMario]

If you watch videos of Pictochat you can see that it isn't 13.3333 seconds aswell.

In this video:
First drawing:
Started being drawn: 1:58.5
Finished being drawn: 1:57.0
Started being erased: 1:44.5
Finished being erased: 1:44.0
Ok, that's AROUND 13 seconds, lets' continue:
Second drawing:
Started being drawn: 1:35.5
Finished being drawn: 1:35.0 (As you can see, that wasn't even 10 seconds since the last drawing STARTED being erased)
Started being erased: 1:25.0
Finished being erased: 1:24.5 (Once again, it's around 10 seconds from start-to-finish)
Third drawng:
Started being drawn: 1.16.0
Finished being drawn: 1.15.5 (This time it was EVEN QUICKER)
(They both hit the rockets so I can't time how long they'd normally last, but the last one disappeared at 1.00 near exactly)
Fourth drawing:
Started being drawn: 0.55 (only 5 seconds after)

There is no way that is a consistent 13.333 seconds.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Interesting...I guess that thread's out of date.

 

[Raziek]

I'm late to all of this discussion, so I'm not just going to jump in, but I do have some anecdotal evidence to share.

I hosted a large tournament (By Canada's standards: 69 people) yesterday, with my usual ruleset (though MK was legal for his final tournament), and PS2 got used QUITE a bit as the game 1 starter.

Also, the DB glitch on PS2 is SERIOUSLY, the most negligible thing ever.

#1: It only works on the edge of the treadmill.
#2: If you aren't camping the center, you're doing it wrong.
#3: If you aren't camping the center, you better **** well be zoning with fair or nair. There's no reason to ever use DB on that transition.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

To the question at hand: Smashville or possibly Battlefield, followed by PS1/FD.

 

[GTZ]

battlefield has the best setup for some serious competition in my opinion... FD gets boring, banned a lot, etc. I like smashville too, the moving platform can be useful...

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

The most competitive stage is FD.

Raziek and BPC, despite how I agree with you both, there are just to many people who whine that they want FD only.

That's why it's the most competitive stage: it's one the most widley-used stages in competitive brawl.

My definition of a competitive stage is a stage widely accepted by competitive brawl.

 

[Zatchiel]

My definition of a competitive stage is a stage widely accepted by competitive brawl.

I'm recommending you open a dictionary right now.

Competitive

–adjective
2. well suited for competition; having a feature that makes for successful competition: a competitive price.

4. useful to a competitor; giving a competitor an advantage: He was careful not to divulge competitive information about his invention.

I took out the two definitions i thought irrelevant, and i thought this might help you before you post again.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@LP

First of all, I swear you stalk me to flame me.

Second, you could say it's well suite because its the only stage people want to play on. It's feature is that it's bland, giving the illusion it's the only good stage.

 

[Zatchiel]

First of all, I swear you stalk me to flame me.

That's an assumption, and i just happen to lurk in places that catch my attention. Take into consideration that you're not in all those places. In most your posts, you also try to act like a know it all. Not getting at you for that.

Second, you could say it's well suite because its the only stage people want to play on. It's feature is that it's bland, giving the illusion it's the only good stage.

Just because people want to play on it doesn't make it well suited for competitive play.

It's feature is that it's bland, giving the illusion it's the only good stage.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

That's an assumption, and i just happen to lurk in places that catch my attention. Take into consideration that you're not in all those places. In most your posts, you also try to act like a know it all. Not getting at you for that.

O rly?

Just because people want to play on it doesn't make it well suited for competitive play.

Look at second example of 1st definition.

"having a feature that makes for successful competition"

I stated that that feature earlier.

What, do you honestly think the stage is fair?

 

[Zatchiel]

O rly?

Yes.

Look at second example of 1st definition.

"having a feature that makes for successful competition"

I stated that that feature earlier.

If unaltered strategy is a feature that makes a stage competitive (Thanks to BPC to getting this point through in another thread), i don't know what a competitive stage is.. :/
FD is much too polarized and physically neutral to have any effect that would make gameplay more competitive. You've already pointed out that you think competitive means most desired or demanded. Competition is clearly directed by both players having to deal with the same amount of occurrences, forcing them to switch strategy at varied intervals, and making most MU's closer, if not even. Stages like FD, don't contain this trait. I think you're being tournament-centered on this entire discussion.

What, do you honestly think the stage is fair?

FD is too level and polarizing to be fair. In all honesty, the dimensions and such seem fair, but its lack of competitive trait is made up for by pure popularity. It's somewhat saddening.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

FD is much too polarized and physically neutral to have any effect that would make gameplay more competitive.

But it and its trait fit the 2nd example of the 1st definition.

You've already pointed out that you think competitive means most desired or demanded.

Then I reworded it to fit your definition.

Competition is clearly directed by both players having to deal with the same amount of occurrences, forcing them to switch strategy at varied intervals, and making most MU's closer, if not even.

How does that have anything to do with competitiveness?

I think you're being tournament-centered on this entire discussion.
[/COLOR][/FONT]

I am being tournament-centered, as that is what makes up most of competitive brawl.

FD is too level and polarizing to be fair. In all honesty, the dimensions and such seem fair, but its lack of competitive trait is made up for by pure popularity. It's somewhat saddening.

Then why'd you roll you eyes at my statement in my last post?

 

[Zatchiel]

But it and its trait fit the 2nd example of the 1st definition.

Polarization is not a feature that makes for successful competition.

Then I reworded it to fit your definition.

What?

How does that have anything to do with competitiveness?

I hope you're trolling. If they have to resort to one steady tactic without even the slightest change in strategical method, it's far from being competitive. Just look at the DDD vs DK MU @ FD.

I am being tournament-centered, as that is what makes up most of competitive brawl.

Oh, my apologies, i meant you're being strictly biased on stage popularity, rather than focusing on the actual competition.

Then why'd you roll you eyes at my statement in my last post?

Because you basically shut yourself down. Try reading what i quoted.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Polarization is not a feature that makes for successful competition.

Quite frankly, people don't care.

What?

Look at definition 4. "useful to a competitor". FD fits that perfectly.

I hope you're trolling. If they have to resort to one steady tactic without even the slightest change in strategical method, it's far from being competitive. Just look at the DDD vs DK MU @ FD.

Yeah, I reread it, and now I get what you're saying.

That's playing the game in general.

Oh, my apologies, i meant you're being strictly biased on stage popularity, rather than focusing on the actual competition.

So you don't think tournaments matter?

Because you basically shut yourself down. Try reading what i quoted.

How, exactly? You just recolor a word, roll your eyes, and tell me to read what you quoted.

 

[Raziek]

FD is CLEARLY not the most competitive stage. This is incontestable.

Popular does not by ANY means = competitive.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@Raziek

Yeah, I messed up. I realized that.

 

[Zatchiel]

Quite frankly, people don't care.

I'll point out that this isn't based on what people care about, so much as the hard facts.

Look at definition 4. "useful to a competitor". FD fits that perfectly.

This isn't basing specifically on a single competitor so much as strategic variation. Which FD does not induce.

Yeah, I reread it, and now I get what you're saying.

All i needed.

So you don't think tournaments matter?

If you're trying to structure all your posts to how tournament organized stages are, i'm just meaning you're trying to derail a bit. As stated earlier in this post: We're talking factually.

How, exactly? You just recolor a word, roll your eyes, and tell me to read what you quoted.

*Shakes head in disappointment*
I'm not even going to spoon feed you. If it's not clear by now, i don't really know what to say.

FD is CLEARLY not the most competitive stage. This is incontestable.

Popular does not by ANY means = competitive.

I've been waiting to see this, QFT.

 

[Raziek]

Actually, now that I think about it, I can't REMEMBER the last time I've seen FD come up as the starter in our ruleset. (Considering experienced players of course, not just randoms who just say, "Wanna go to FD?" because they don't know better.)

I strike it and ban it in almost every set that I play. (Barring match-up specific stuff like MK or Wario)

Most common picks that I see?

PS2, Smashville, Lylat, BF.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

To the question at hand: Smashville or possibly Battlefield, followed by PS1/FD.

GAAAAHHH STOP SAYING THIS!

Smashville is way out there. Battlefield isn't awful, but certainly below PS2 and RC. FD... I think it goes something like
(banned stages)
Picto
Norfair
FD
(other legal stages)

As far as the competitiveness of stages go. You could even debate norfair being worse than FD.

STOP SAYING FD, FD IS A ****TY COMPETITIVE STAGE ON VIRTUALLY EVERY ACCOUNT. IF YOU SAY FD, YOU ARE SHOWING THAT YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

battlefield has the best setup for some serious competition in my opinion... FD gets boring, banned a lot, etc. I like smashville too, the moving platform can be useful...

God dammit people. Doesn't anyone remember what I posted a while back? DON'T JUST NAMEDROP STAGES. That doesn't help anyone except the mob mentality. Back up your claims, please.

The most competitive stage is FD.

Raziek and BPC, despite how I agree with you both, there are just to many people who whine that they want FD only.

That's why it's the most competitive stage: it's one the most widley-used stages in competitive brawl.

My definition of a competitive stage is a stage widely accepted by competitive brawl.

So, you cave into scrubs? Sounds good to me.

 

[Raziek]

Stop ragin' BPC, if they just come in a namedrop a stage without reading the thread, chances are, they aren't coming back to look at the responses.

If they don't back it up, leave it be.

Also, this is ultimately an OPINION topic, so in the end, we can debate all we want, but they're still entitled to their opinion.

 

[Zatchiel]

Also, this is ultimately an OPINION topic, so in the end, we can debate all we want, but they're still entitled to their opinion.

Couldn't have said it any other way, got to it before i did.

But BPC is correct in elaboration of decisions made by half the people that have posted here; i would actually like people to give legitimate reasons why they think said stage is the most competitive, rather than making it seem like a +1.

 

[Raziek]

i would actually like people to give legitimate reasons why they think said stage is the most competitive, rather than making it seem like a +1.

I would too, but it's not like we can do anything about it.

Spoiler

+1

 

[Bartolon]

Smashville probs.

 

[DTP]

Smashville imo.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Also, this is ultimately an OPINION topic, so in the end, we can debate all we want, but they're still entitled to their opinion.

/thread.
+1!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

God dammit I hate you guys.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Sorry about last night, I was tired and not thinking straight.

 

[Zatchiel]

I would too, but it's not like we can do anything about it.

Spoiler

+1

Lol.

God dammit I hate you guys.

I love you too.

 

[Kole]

Sorry about last night, I was tired and not thinking straight.

Spoiler

that's what she said

 

[AvaricePanda]

GAAAAHHH STOP SAYING THIS!

Smashville is way out there. Battlefield isn't awful, but certainly below PS2 and RC. FD... I think it goes something like
(banned stages)
Picto
Norfair
FD
(other legal stages)

As far as the competitiveness of stages go. You could even debate norfair being worse than FD.

STOP SAYING FD, FD IS A ****TY COMPETITIVE STAGE ON VIRTUALLY EVERY ACCOUNT. IF YOU SAY FD, YOU ARE SHOWING THAT YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.



God dammit people. Doesn't anyone remember what I posted a while back? DON'T JUST NAMEDROP STAGES. That doesn't help anyone except the mob mentality. Back up your claims, please.



So, you cave into scrubs? Sounds good to me.

lol why u mad tho? opinions yo.

I agree that FD isn't the most competitive stage but it's by no means "a ****ty competitive stage on virtually every account." It's constant and one of like...three or four stages that can provide 100% consistent results.

tbh I think most stages are pretty close on competitiveness. I believe the layer of depth that things like changing terrains or physics adds to the game in most cases is very thin, and I think the amount of competitiveness subtracted by stages being randomness isn't much either, but I still probably think the latter is in most cases more important than the former and that Battlefield is still the most competitive stage (but like every stage is very competitive still, except for like Mansion oh god lol).

But for example, on PS2, yes there are 5 different transformations and 3 of them with completely different non-broken physics changes. Yes you could say it adds depth; personally I feel like the treadmill and air stages subtract depth because the number of viable (or at least intelligent) options is smaller; the ice, rock, and normal stages are fine. Whatever depth is added or subtracted is still kind of slim IMO overall, but another main thing that subtracts "competitiveness" from the stage is the fact that the stage transformations aren't constant. An MK vs. Diddy game that starts out with the air then electric transformations is different than the one that starts out with the earth and ice transformations. Those beginning minutes can determine momentum and in some cases the entire game (and in a 3 minute tiebreaker, while those rarely happen, they become "different stages" altogether).

Some stages just don't add any negligible depth IMO, and some just subtract it. Yes you can "say" that Mansion adds depth because of tech skill and the factor of destroying the stage, but unless you're abusing the stage qualities you're losing—gameplay pretty much deteriorates to that. Water based gameplay? Okay, but when some characters on Pirate Ship have the issue of water camping which technically isn't stalling for the entire cast, it kind of deteriorates gameplay.

but eh, I still can't see how you consider BF to behind RC or PS2 in terms of competitiveness.
What are you judging "competitiveness" on?

also @ Raziek, is that Carl or Hazama in your avatar? or neither?