choknater
Smash Obsessed
ic's are bad against g&w imo
However, many of my "colleagues" contend that Metaknight is even less favorable.
However, many of my "colleagues" contend that Metaknight is even less favorable.
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Worst Matchups Character Specific
- Thread starter Hive
- Start date
Natch
Smash Ace
Lucas also has very bad matchups against GaW and DK.
Snowstalker
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 813
I think that GaW should share his spot on Yoshi's toughest matchups with Lucario.
rehab
Smash Journeyman
Wario does terrible to DDD.
Hive
Smash Lord
kwl, thnx to everyone who is adding ^^ I'm trying to update it as soon as I can... there are quite a few conflicts though, which I thought it'd be appropriate to put at the bottom of the list for consideration ^^
nightSN
Smash Ace
is lucario and mk really THAT bad of a match up?
Hive
Smash Lord
@rehab- I'm not sure but are you saying Wario does bad against DDD, or that DDD does bad against Wario?- sorry for the confusion
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179463
Meta Knight match up thread. MK has Large Advantage to Olimar.
Meta Knight match up thread. MK has Large Advantage to Olimar.
Hive
Smash Lord
@fcukinSN- I have no idea lol should I take that down..?. I don't think anyone has actually stated that, it might be a remnant of some of my guesses in the beginning taken from the lucario matchup chart. I'd trust your opinion more than mine ^^
@TLink King- I would be inclined to believe you
but I'm trying to not use my own opinion in this thread, and rely on what other people come up with instead
however there has been considerable debate about this, which I am listing below
5. Is Olimar a bad matchup for MK? People who say yes (Gheb_101) People who say no (TlinkKing) also EdreesesPieces says this "Have they lost to any Olimar players before?" ... I'm not sure if that's a no or not ^^
also, there is pretty much a whole thread on this *** http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201936
which I would say summarizes like this (if I'm not mistaken)
Olimar has the advantage: Atomsk_92, Mew2King, Rykoshet, brinboy789
Neutral matchup: Yawnbored, Zori
Mk has the advantage: Pyronic_Star, Kyas, DanGR, -NaPPy, dabuz
@TLink King- I would be inclined to believe you
but I'm trying to not use my own opinion in this thread, and rely on what other people come up with instead however there has been considerable debate about this, which I am listing below
5. Is Olimar a bad matchup for MK? People who say yes (Gheb_101) People who say no (TlinkKing) also EdreesesPieces says this "Have they lost to any Olimar players before?" ... I'm not sure if that's a no or not ^^
also, there is pretty much a whole thread on this *** http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201936
which I would say summarizes like this (if I'm not mistaken)
Olimar has the advantage: Atomsk_92, Mew2King, Rykoshet, brinboy789
Neutral matchup: Yawnbored, Zori
Mk has the advantage: Pyronic_Star, Kyas, DanGR, -NaPPy, dabuz
HAven't you read my beatiful list at the top of page 2? It's full of win and truth. You should check it out.
And lol @ICs being Wolfs hardest. They are even, some dudes like Hylian even say ot's Wolfs advantage. Wolfs worst match-up is Falco. Period.
@Edreeses
Idk but I heard Atomsk plays Olimar himself sometimes..
And lol @ICs being Wolfs hardest. They are even, some dudes like Hylian even say ot's Wolfs advantage. Wolfs worst match-up is Falco. Period.
@Edreeses
Idk but I heard Atomsk plays Olimar himself sometimes..
rehab
Smash Journeyman
DDD wrecks Wario.
Gea
Smash Master
Peach has a harder time with Snake than MK. Seriously.
Mmac
Smash Lord
For the people that said no to Yoshi vs MetaKnight, Piginabag Is a complete noob who knows nothing of the matchup, and IvanEva is completely 100% Biased against him, and thinks that he doesn't stand a chance because he's in low tier, and only because of that
Hive
Smash Lord
@ Gheb_101 I did read your list ^^ lots of good points, did I miss anything?
-oh, and where does it say ICs are Wolf's hardest?
-also, I got MK, and DDD as wolf's hardest from your list on page 2... should I only keep Falco?
@Gea- I think it was Praxis who suggested MK? I put up Snake though ^^
-oh, and where does it say ICs are Wolf's hardest?
-also, I got MK, and DDD as wolf's hardest from your list on page 2... should I only keep Falco?
@Gea- I think it was Praxis who suggested MK? I put up Snake though ^^
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Zero suit samus has quite a bit of trouble with falco.
and she goes even with MK(its still being debated).
and she goes even with MK(its still being debated).
Hive
Smash Lord
@Mmac- you and Bigman40 are probably right that yoshi is a hard matchup for mk ^^ sorry I didn't put that up earlier, I think you'd know more about the matchup though , although I'm trying to keep my opinions out of this, and rely on what people tell me instead...
I did however leave up the little comment at the bottom of the list to show that there is at least some debate about it. I'll take that down once there is either more support for you argument, or considerable more support for the opposition ^^
, although I'm trying to keep my opinions out of this, and rely on what people tell me instead...I did however leave up the little comment at the bottom of the list to show that there is at least some debate about it. I'll take that down once there is either more support for you argument, or considerable more support for the opposition ^^
I thoght you have the Iceys as a bad match-up for Wolf...whatever. You should add MK and Dedede to him though.
King Dedede is Marios, Luigis, Samus, Bowsers and DKs worst match-up, since he has the infinite on them. Dedede is also a bad match-up for Wario. No Wario player will tell you otherwise.
ROB isn'T a bad match-up for Falco. It's 55:45 for ROB at best...I could be wrong but he isn't one of Falcos worst match-up's.
Pit has a bad march-up against Marth and Snake but most Pit players will disagree on Snake...
Falco isn't Dededes worst match-up imo. He should switch places with Pikachu.
Fox is certainly not one of Links worst match-up's
Iceys **** DK
I like the idea of the thrads btw. It's better than some match-up threads, most of them are inaccurate anyways
King Dedede is Marios, Luigis, Samus, Bowsers and DKs worst match-up, since he has the infinite on them. Dedede is also a bad match-up for Wario. No Wario player will tell you otherwise.
ROB isn'T a bad match-up for Falco. It's 55:45 for ROB at best...I could be wrong but he isn't one of Falcos worst match-up's.
Pit has a bad march-up against Marth and Snake but most Pit players will disagree on Snake...
Falco isn't Dededes worst match-up imo. He should switch places with Pikachu.
Fox is certainly not one of Links worst match-up's
Iceys **** DK
I like the idea of the thrads btw. It's better than some match-up threads, most of them are inaccurate anyways
Hive
Smash Lord
@Gheb_101-yea, I thought MK and DDD were good against Wolf, ^^ I had them up from your list on page 2, however your last statement said that "Wolf's hardest matchup was Falco, period." I must have misunderstood that, I thought you were refuting your previous statement. 
I think I had DDD up for all of those people except for Luigi, from other people's statements... (and trust me, I would know samus has a hard time against her more than most people @.@ lol) Luigi has an infinite but not a cg though, right (harder to pull off)? So I was waiting for luigi players to confirm this matchup before I put it up. ^^
R.O.B. was put up as a bad matchup for Falco from dainbramage. I'll add that to the debate section though
also Fox was up as a possible matchup against Link by Nintenjoe, but it seemed debatable when he said it... coupled with your opinion I took it down.
Pit's bad matchups (MK and G&W) were given to me from Andrewcarlson. I put up your suggestions (Marth and Snake) as well ^^ though I wish there were some consensus between your opinions, oh well, I'm sure that will change in time.
Nice work btw, very helpful
I tried to change a lot of the characters to your suggestions though, but tell me if I got anything wrong ^^
I think I had DDD up for all of those people except for Luigi, from other people's statements... (and trust me, I would know samus has a hard time against her more than most people @.@ lol) Luigi has an infinite but not a cg though, right (harder to pull off)? So I was waiting for luigi players to confirm this matchup before I put it up. ^^
R.O.B. was put up as a bad matchup for Falco from dainbramage. I'll add that to the debate section though
also Fox was up as a possible matchup against Link by Nintenjoe, but it seemed debatable when he said it... coupled with your opinion I took it down.
Pit's bad matchups (MK and G&W) were given to me from Andrewcarlson. I put up your suggestions (Marth and Snake) as well ^^ though I wish there were some consensus between your opinions, oh well, I'm sure that will change in time.
Nice work btw, very helpful
I tried to change a lot of the characters to your suggestions though, but tell me if I got anything wrong ^^
Gea
Smash Master
Praxis may personally feel like he does better against Snake, but the majority of Peach players seem to fear Snake more than Meta because of Peach's lack of spike, kill moves, and ways around his tilts. Meta is just Meta.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Donkey Kong is worse than Metaknight for Lucas.
Hive
Smash Lord
@Gea- Put up Snake to have the more priority than MK in the Peach bad matchups, but did I get the placement right?
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
One more thing: I don't see Olimar as difficult for Sonic.
Hive
Smash Lord
@blackbelt-yea sorry, I figured out what you went like 2 seconds after I posted lol ^^
I put your opinion up about sonic and Olimar- however there is still considerable disagreement on it....
I put your opinion up about sonic and Olimar- however there is still considerable disagreement on it....
smaci92
Smash Lord
surprisingly, I agree with practically everything on your list so far! good job...keep it up.
good job...keep it up.
Hive
Smash Lord
wow really! 0.0 lol that scares even mesurprisingly, I agree with practically everything on your list so far!
thnx! I can't believe I'm doing something right though lol
Gea
Smash Master
Yeah... You pretty much nailed it.
smaci92
Smash Lord
lol well some people might disagree with some of the stuff you have on there...but everything i've read, it looks like you got most of it right!wow really! 0.0 lol that scares even me
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2006
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- 3,118
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- Lincolnshire, England.
- NNID
- Gengite
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You mean IvanEva's massively bias chart?
Lol.
Eh, that was the opinion of Sonic mains a while ago. I don't think so now, I think it's only a soft counter, maybe 35:65 (let's consider 30:70 as a hard counter, which is generally the standard) but not in the same league as the three already mentioned.
Hive
Smash Lord
@Yonder- yea I think ROOOOY! is probably right on this one for sonic, but point taken for Wario , sonic is probably a soft counter but not one of his absolute worst matchups, but I still left it up for debate . Note though when quoting matchup charts is to keep in mind that IvanEva's is based on his personal opinion of matchups, while Dangrs is based on character matchup charts... ^^ so while it might make a point that a character has a bad matchup on Dangrs chart (because it reflects matchup discussion), using IvanEva's chart as an argument is like saying you believe Luigi is a bad matchup for Sonic because IvanEva thinks so....
which is why I think your opinion on wario makes a stronger argument than sonic in this case ^^
Thanx for contributing, I'm pretty sure you are on of the first Luigi mains to do so other than Gea :D
, sonic is probably a soft counter but not one of his absolute worst matchups, but I still left it up for debate . Note though when quoting matchup charts is to keep in mind that IvanEva's is based on his personal opinion of matchups, while Dangrs is based on character matchup charts... ^^ so while it might make a point that a character has a bad matchup on Dangrs chart (because it reflects matchup discussion), using IvanEva's chart as an argument is like saying you believe Luigi is a bad matchup for Sonic because IvanEva thinks so....which is why I think your opinion on wario makes a stronger argument than sonic in this case ^^
Thanx for contributing, I'm pretty sure you are on of the first Luigi mains to do so other than Gea :D
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Add TL to G&W's worst matchups, he beats him down pretty well.
This is a very strong point of contention. Some Peaches think Snake is hard, others consider him easy.
I actually feel Peach has the advantage on Snake. I've beaten every Snake in my region, and taken DSF to last stock and even won a match against him as Snake (couldn't touch the MK).
No. You're doing it wrong.
Like I said; I've beaten every Snake in my region. I taught "You" the Snake matchup, and she went on to beat the best Snake in her region (Zjinn) shortly thereafter.
MK is way, way harder. Peach can perform 60% combos on Snake, edgeguard him well, float over his traps...it's nowhere near as bad.
At the very least, it's such an arguable point that he should NOT be listed as her worst. I actually consider it to be in Peach's favor or even. They call me The Snake Raper over here and tell noobs to take Snake against me so they can laugh- it's my favorite matchup.
Not true. It's 55:45 G&Ws favour
Samuelson
Smash Lord
Lucario's worst matchups are Marth and DDD. GaW in theory is a bad matchup for Lucario but in reality it isn't THAT bad. MK and Lucario go pretty even i would say it's like 55:45 or 50:50 depending on the stage.
Hive
Smash Lord
@samuelson- yea my friend wolfpuptk tells me that DDD is a horrible matchup for Lucario as well ^^, I was waiting for someone to say that lol
Bnzaaa
Smash Ace
Bowser gets ***** by the Ice Climbers. Gannondorf boards say that they lose really bad against the Ice Climbers. And Sheik is on of the Ice Climbers worst matchups (I don't know this matchup well.)
Ice Climbers also lose badly to Snake and Game and Watch.
Game and Watch doesn't get destroyed by Toon Link. It's almost even, or a bit in Toon Link's favor.
Fox loses to Zero Suit Samus pretty bad.
Marth having a big disadvantage is pretty debateable to me. Marth doesn't have many **** matchups aginst him in general aside from Meta Knight.
And Pits love fighting Snake. They will argue that Snake is far from one of Pit's worst matchup.
I like this idea. Keep building on it.
Ice Climbers also lose badly to Snake and Game and Watch.
Game and Watch doesn't get destroyed by Toon Link. It's almost even, or a bit in Toon Link's favor.
Fox loses to Zero Suit Samus pretty bad.
Marth having a big disadvantage is pretty debateable to me. Marth doesn't have many **** matchups aginst him in general aside from Meta Knight.
And Pits love fighting Snake. They will argue that Snake is far from one of Pit's worst matchup.
I like this idea. Keep building on it.
Pit is more of a thread to Bowser than DK is. Hes actually a pretty big threat to DK too.
Olimar vs Pit is 50:50 so theres no need for him to be listed as one of Olimars worst matchups and I fail to see how Snake has more problems with Pikachu than he does with Pit.
Olimar vs Pit is 50:50 so theres no need for him to be listed as one of Olimars worst matchups and I fail to see how Snake has more problems with Pikachu than he does with Pit.
Samuelson
Smash Lord
Why do you consider Falco a nightmare matchup, Praxis? He really isn't that bad. Sure he has projectiles and a reflector but that goes for the rest of the cast as well. If you play smart, Peach has just the right tools to deal with a good falco.
And the Snake matchup is debatable. I, too, do very well against Snake if he goes the least bit on the offensive, but when he decides to camp, and can do it really well, it gets significantly harder to break through. Didn't you say the exact same things about other characters such as Wolf and whatnot? How much experience did DSF have against Peach anyways? And have said results been replicated on a regular basis? To me, it goes 45:55 Snake... and thus I don't see why I went on rambling about Snake in the first place xD.
And the Snake matchup is debatable. I, too, do very well against Snake if he goes the least bit on the offensive, but when he decides to camp, and can do it really well, it gets significantly harder to break through. Didn't you say the exact same things about other characters such as Wolf and whatnot? How much experience did DSF have against Peach anyways? And have said results been replicated on a regular basis? To me, it goes 45:55 Snake... and thus I don't see why I went on rambling about Snake in the first place xD.