Worst Matchups Character Specific

[AndrewCarlson]

Pit is more of a thread to Bowser than DK is. Hes actually a pretty big threat to DK too.

Olimar vs Pit is 50:50 so theres no need for him to be listed as one of Olimars worst matchups and I fail to see how Snake has more problems with Pikachu than he does with Pit.

Agreed on Snake. Even though Pit may not be his absolute worst match-up (wouldn't that be Dedede?), he's still a nice counter I'd say.

 

[Dyyne]

Oli's worst match ups is without a doubt peach. The next worst is probably luigi, and maybe rob after that. Pit is by no means his worst match up.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Even though I am hating to admit it, but Pit doesn't like Kirby so much, and sometimes Jiggs, ugh...
I assume Pit does do really well against large heavy chars.
That would be DK, Bowser, Dedede, Wario, sometimes vs Snake, and maybe Ganon.

Basically Pit has an F-throw chaingrab (capped at about 40-50% depending on weight and DI) that works well against large heavy chars, especially DK, Bowser, and Ganon, then Snake... Dedede and Wario seem kinda floaty and have a better chance at escaping it.
In addition, Pit's N-air is really good against large chars. For Bowser and DK, he can use Mirror Shield to gimp their limited recoveries. As for the other mentioned chars, arrows just to stop their jumps when trying to recover.

However, Pit's Ledgecamp + Edgeguarding + Gimping capabilities (Chaingrab too) make him very brutal against DK and Bowser, maybe Ganon. As for Dedede, if he didnt have that chaingrab and long range to save him (Dedede is also floaty and can avoid Pit's CG easier than other heavies can)... but that doesnt mean that Pit cant take him down with pressure. Snake suffers the same from Pit's pressuring ability.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

I don't think it's easy for Dedede to escape Pit's chaingrab considering he falls faster than Donkey Kong, is heavier than Ganondorf, and has the worst air speed in the game.

 

[Praxis]

Why do you consider Falco a nightmare matchup, Praxis? He really isn't that bad. Sure he has projectiles and a reflector but that goes for the rest of the cast as well. If you play smart, Peach has just the right tools to deal with a good falco.

Falco is a bad matchup against Peach if he plays with a certain playstyle. Even Edrees feels it's her worst (I think G&W is slightly worse but Falco's horrible).

PM me if you want details, I don't want to give away our secrets

And the Snake matchup is debatable. I, too, do very well against Snake if he goes the least bit on the offensive, but when he decides to camp, and can do it really well, it gets significantly harder to break through. Didn't you say the exact same things about other characters such as Wolf and whatnot? How much experience did DSF have against Peach anyways? And have said results been replicated on a regular basis? To me, it goes 45:55 Snake... and thus I don't see why I went on rambling about Snake in the first place xD.

45:55 Snake is reasonable, but that wouldn't make him one of Peach's worst matchups

 

[ungulateman]

CF gets ***** by Pika.

(I second CF, FYI.)

 

[YagamiLight]

Falco and Olimar are Ike's worst match-ups, MK is not really close to them at all. (Falco is 3:7, Olimar is 3.5:6.5 while MK is only a very slight disadvantage for Ike)

 

[Hive]

@YagamiLight- Mk was proposed as a counter to Ike by AndrewCarlson... though Falco and Olimar should already be up and ahead of him Since these are the only three so far that have been proposed as Ike counters I left Mk up in third until he can be replaced or hold his position...
@ManiacLyrasist- You're right, I think you, AndrewCarlson and CaliburChamp have all proposed Pit as a counter to Snake, so I'll have to take your word on it ^^
However Pikachu is still left up as a Snake counter since it was proposed by Gheb_101, but he is no longer ahead of Pit...
I wasn't sure though... were you debating Pikachu's presence there, or just the fact that he was ahead of Pit?

 

[AndrewCarlson]

The Meta Knight match-up thread has Ike as a 70:30 advantage in Meta Knight's favor, so I just assumed that was one of Ike's worst match-ups.

 

[Kinzer]

Eh why do the MKs even NEED a matchup chart, am I right?

 

[-Mars-]

Sheik has fairly large disadvantages against MK and G&W.........you should probably just put those two for now.

 

[DRaGZ]

R.O.B. has the advantage against Falco. Falco can't really chaingrab him, and R.O.B. can circumvent Falco's entire game really easily by just ledgecamping well. Once Falco is off-stage, Falco = dead.

 

[Greenstreet]

WTF? Take GaW off Sonics worst. Learn to play Sonic mainers. It ain't that hard...

 

[Yeniths]

ROB does not counter Falco, Falco can simply camp back in this match up, his lazers make it incredibly hard for
ROB to approach.

 

[Ulevo]

This list isn't really coming along at all. It's totally off.

For the record, I forgot to add this in my post, put Wolf down as Pikachus worst match up.

Laser/Reflector/Whateverelse camping shuts Pikachu down quite badly. Pikachu fairs quite well vs Meta Knight. Marth isn't too hot, but not nearly as bad as Wolf. G&W I think is a big misconception.

 

[asob4]

uhhh MK counters oli.
there's no way MK is countered by olimar, no matter how much i would like

 

[YagamiLight]

Might as well make it: Falco, Olimar, Dedede for Ike then.

 

[Gea]

I actually feel Peach has the advantage on Snake. I've beaten every Snake in my region, and taken DSF to last stock and even won a match against him as Snake (couldn't touch the MK).

I can't take you seriously when this is one of those matches you boast about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VFvQsiyHQw

 

[Hive]

@Greenstreet- the idea that G&W is a counter to sonic was proposed by ROOOOY! on page 2, so I'd discuss that with him ^^
@asob4- yea i moved olimar down below mk, but its hard to take him off completely yet since there is so much discussion about the possibility of him countering mk... if there is more support for you I'll do that ^^
@Ulevo- dang :/ I wish it were coming along better, I'm basically just taking people's suggestions though, and keeping notes of who said what, and hoping that the more people post will bring about pretty solid answers @.@... I have no idea what else would be effective though I don't nearly trust my own opinions on any of the matchups except samus' Is there something particularly wrong with it that you see? It seemed like a good idea anyways lol
@Dragz, I'm not sure if you were proposing R.O.B. as having the disadvantage or as one of Falco's worst matchups? ^^ sorry, anyways..
@Dragz/Yeniths- there's been a lot of debate about whether R.O.B. counters Falco... ^^ so pretty much so far is yes (dainbramage, Dragz) and no is (Gheb_101, Yeniths)... I figured I would leave R.O.B. up but at the end of Falco's list until there is more support for either side.

 

[Joxer]

toon link as trouble with MK and olimar

 

[M@v]

Fox is on the money, but MK one of Falco's worst? Last time I checked he could Chaingrab MK.

 

[Praxis]

I can't take you seriously when this is one of those matches you boast about:

Not the one I'm referring to. I've played with DSF several times.

I've checked with several Peaches. Sky, Burton, "You"...none of them think Snake's as bad for Peach as G&W or MK.

Heck, even Dark.Pch says it's not that bad of a matchup.

 

[CR4SH]

While it's true, GW is arguably luigi's third worst matchup (the argument being marth), he's nowhere near on the level of D3 or MK. D3 and MK are TERRIBLE matchups for luigi, like, you don't fight them with L, you just don't. GW is just challenging. So putting them in the same sentence seems odd to me. It's like, MK...D3............................Gw.Marth...everyone else............wario lol.

As far as sonic vs luigi. It's only terrible if the sonic doesn't know how to get around the tornado, andrefuses to stop spindashing into fireballs. Otherwise, its hardly even uphill.

Also, MK is ness' worst matchup. By a fairly wide margin.

 

[Umby]

@Greenstreet- the idea that G&W is a counter to sonic was proposed by ROOOOY! on page 2, so I'd discuss that with him ^^

ROOOOY! is pretty silly when it comes to discussing Sonic matchups.

 

[Levitas]

Ok, forgot about this thread.

Lucas: really really loses to G&W and Marth. loses to DK less hard. MK does beat him, but not nearly as bad as those three.

You really need to get rid of MK as one of his worst matchups, he's got matchups that are a LOT worse. Honestly, I think that DK needs to go, too, because he doesn't have the same level of wreck that Marth and G&W have on him.

If we can't get this argument to come to a conclusion here, I'll post a thread on the lucas boards so that we can give you a more definitive answer.

 

[Hive]

k, just went through ALL of the posts again and wrote down all opinions/matchps for every character so far...
the matchup chart got changed accordingly to what people have said.

 

[Ulevo]

@@Ulevo- dang :/ I wish it were coming along better, I'm basically just taking people's suggestions though, and keeping notes of who said what, and hoping that the more people post will bring about pretty solid answers @.@... I have no idea what else would be effective though I don't nearly trust my own opinions on any of the matchups except samus' Is there something particularly wrong with it that you see? It seemed like a good idea anyways lol .

Your best chance for creating something like this that is constructive and accurate is to get the conflicting match ups information from both character boards in question of the said match up. For example, if I wanted to know the top three worst match ups for "W" character, you would go to the "W" character boards to find the information. Scope out the threads and the forum, make sure the information is reliable, and from a reliable/credible/knowledgeable source. From there, go to character "X" forums and reconcile the information you found on "W" boards with "X" boards. If they match up, that's fantastic. Add it to your compilation. If not, create a few threads about it and generate discussion. See why there is a discrepancy. Then move on the character "Y" and "Z" forums, and reconcile the information there.

To give you a more obvious example, Marth is posted now as having a 35:65 match up vs Meta Knight, his #1 worst match up. Upon realizing this information, you would check in the Meta Knight boards (God forbid their match up threads are horrid, so be careful of that), and confirm that the information is consistent. If it were 65:35 for Meta Knight, or reasonably close, add it.

This is how I were to do it if I had the time. I've wanted to do this for some time now actually, but I have too many other ideas and interest in my head floating around, threads I need to update, work to do... and I'm lazy, so no johns.

Anyway, yeah. Don't rely on the random people coming into your thread and spewing out whatever comes to their little minds to give you correct information. Otherwise you'll wind up with results that are skewed and you'll simply get confused by the different answers people are giving you.

 

[Hive]

If we can't get this argument to come to a conclusion here, I'll post a thread on the lucas boards so that we can give you a more definitive answer.

Kwl, thnx! ^^
so far the info. I have on Lucas is as follows:
Marth- (Natch)(Levitas)
MK- (Natch), counterargument (Levitas)
G&W- (Natch)(Levitas)
DK- (Natch)(Blackbelt), counterargument (Levitas)

so I left up Marth and G&W, and took down MK, and DK until there can be more support for either side. Is that ok?

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Pit doesn't do badly against Kirby or Jigglypuff. If by worst, you mean a serious disadvantage (65:35 or greater) then only Meta Knight and Mr. Game & Watch would fit in my opinion. Marth has only a slight advantage in my opinion. So if you really want to list serious disadvantages instead of debatable ones, only Meta Knight and Mr. Game & Watch would fit the criteria.

 

[Hive]

@Ulevo- yea, I thought of that too ^^ the problem with that though, is that in the beginning I DID look at matchup charts and "worst character" specific threads to find starting characters for the discussion. The problem is that almost all of the matchup charts I've seen so far are vastly incomplete, and "worst matchup" discussions are either rare or timed out.... I figure I'd ask the mains themselves in this thread for the answers since they should, most likely, have that info. by now....
On a side note: a lot of the matchup chart's answers were argued lol, but mainly by people who the charts hadn't covered yet....
I don't think there really is a way to do this yet to get a REALLY accurate answer ... but I figure over time this one could get pretty close...

 

[Ulevo]

@Ulevo- yea, I thought of that too ^^ the problem with that though, is that in the beginning I DID look at matchup charts and "worst character" specific threads to find starting characters for the discussion. The problem is that almost all of the matchup charts I've seen so far are vastly incomplete, and "worst matchup" discussions are either rare or timed out.... I figure I'd ask the mains themselves in this thread for the answers since they should, most likely, have that info. by now....
On a side note: a lot of the matchup chart's answers were argued lol, but mainly by people who the charts hadn't covered yet....
I don't think there really is a way to do this yet to get a REALLY accurate answer ... but I figure over time this one could get pretty close...

If you want to ask the mains themselves, you should be asking in specific boards. There isn't anything stopping you from going to the Ike boards, or the Sonic boards, or the G&W boards, etc., to get this information. If they do not have it, or if it largely debated in the threads that are old or already created, make a new one. Start a discussion. That is what I would do. It doesn't take much to go to the Fox boards, ask them who there worst match up is, have them tell you "PIKACHU OMFG I HATE THAT RAT" and then go to the Pikachu boards to have them tell you "Yeah, Fox is cake. We do it like dis, see. We grab em, pound em, toss em, and fry em."

You're done. Go to the next character board, and repeat the process. It's a long one, and it may require you to get into a few debates over matters, but it will get the job done a lot faster than asking here. By posting in here for answers, you're going to get people throwing you information that they have no experience on, just because they feel like it. Even I was guilty of doing it in my post before. I have no idea if Wolf counters Pikachu. I'm pretty sure myself, since a player of a lower skill level than myself beat me or nearly beat me consistently in this match up where I would otherwise two stock him at worst. I'm fairly analytical in my thinking, and I see things as they are for raw results. But that doesn't mean I am right about this, and you shouldn't take my answer as truth even though I was throwing it out in good will. You should go to the Pikachu boards and find out yourself. Wolf could be a cake walk for all I know.

Just my two cents anyway.

 

[Hive]

@Ulevo- no harm done ^^ I appreciate all of your criticisms afterall it can only make the thread go into the right direction...
Should I really post on each board? it sounds tedious, but you're right... it would probably get better answers... I'd just be afraid that it would get modded as spam or if the board had already discussed the topic a lot, it might also only be discussed on newer members who hadn't already spilled there minds over it...
Maybe it would be good to do the more contested characters first...
Anyways, thanx for the input... ^^

 

[Nintendevil]

R.O.B.-MK, G&W, DDD

Change ddd to Zelda and ur good imo XD

 

[choknater]

Wtf? This thread is cool lol, but change IC's bad matchups. Sheik is IC's BEST matchup. Not their worst.

 

[Hive]

Wtf? This thread is cool lol, but change IC's bad matchups. Sheik is IC's BEST matchup. Not their worst.

done and done. ^^ I think Bnzaa suggested Sheik as one of ICs bad matchups ^^ but he didn't sound so sure... glad you corrected that.

 

[YagamiLight]

Er, why did Game and Watch get added to Ike, haha? It's a neutral match.

 

[streetracr77]

I noticed that G&W and marth were up there for quite a few people. I know mk was up there a lot, but he has too many advantages towards other characters and all that cheap stuff.

 

[Hive]

@YagamiLight- G&W was added from a post by AndrewCarlson.... however seeing as how there is now one person for and one person against I took it down ^^
@streetacr77- yea G&W sort of surprised me too ^^ at one point he had more than MK

 

[streetracr77]

I think captain falcon is a bad match up for peach...but I could be entirely wrong...=x

 

[brinboy789]

7. Is R.O.B. a bad matchup for Falco? People who say yes (dainbramage, Dragz) people who say no (Gheb_101, Yeniths)

ummmmm...lolwut.

falco is a bad matchup for ROB. he can laser camp, his reflector shuts down all of robs camping abilities, can CG to pretty good percents, his dair kills robs recovery since you cant air dodge during it (i think). so IMO rob sucks against falco. case solved