Worst Matchups Character Specific

[EdreesesPieces]

Peach falcon is 80-20 in peach's favor, no exageration. If peach decides to turnip camp and spam back air when falcon's close, there aint a thing he can do to win the match. He doesn't have any two hit combos on her either. Neutral air will break any single 2 hit stringed attack falcon has.

 

[Joxer]

for Ganon: MK and Marth
for Kirby: Zelda, ICs, Marth
for TLink: MK, Marth, Wario, Olimar
for Wario: Yoshi, DDD, Marth, Luigi

 

[PhantomX]

Luigi isn't one of Wario's worst, it's just a bad one.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

wait, lucario has the disadvantage in snkae fight? and in the thread you had for lucario it's an old discussion about lucario's CG on snake that stops at like 40 if snake drops the nade...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176912

 

[Hive]

@betterthanbonds9- sounds reasonable enough ^^ I think it was CaliburChamp who proposed Snake as one of his bad matchups- but I'll take that down until it can be supported or opposed more ^^

 

[Hive]

@ Bowser Mains: Do you think it is reasonable to say that Samus is one of his worst matchups?
I know DK and Diddy are up there too @.@ what do you guys think?

 

[Flayl]

No way. Honestly the rating is already too in favor of Samus. Other characters have to deal with ZAir too, and they're lighter than Bowser. I can concede she has an advanatge, but it's really only a small one.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Samus is one of Bowser harder match-up's but not that much in her favour

Btw I wouldn't rely too much on the character board match-up threads. Many of them are either biased, outdated or have too many n00bs, which completely messes them up.

The match-up thread in the Fox board is absurd. They think they have the advantage over Snake and it took Emblem Lord, DMG, Dojo as well as myself to convince them, that they don't have an even match-up with MK.
The GnW boards are a bit dated. I'm not quite sure but I think they still have TL as a bad match-up, while they have Snake, MK and Marth as nautrals despite the fact, that he has the disadvantage against all 3 of them (and having a slight advantage over TL)
Falco apparently has the advantage over MK (according to the Falco boards) despite the fact, that MK is one of his worse match-up's. It's easily 65:35 in MKs favour.
Snake boards are a bit dated imo. They still have DK and MK as one of their hardest match-up's. Pikachu and Falco are more dangerous but are rated lower...

Just to make sure: keep your eyes open. Not all the threads are reliable. It would be better to ask pro players.

 

[Hive]

true. other character's have to deal with zair/missile spams as well... but bowser is EXTREMELY vulnerable to them because he really lacks any sort of ranged game against samus, is a large character/hitbox, and lacks any good approaches (like sonics dashes, mk's tornado, lucario's side dodge, and DDD's cg that just kill her spacing)
Of course the possibilities of a good bowser fighting a good samus are really rare... so its hard to say... ; ;
I don't think its only a small advantage though... but maybe not as large as some of the other's is what I was wondering...

 

[Hive]

@Gheb_101 -yea its hard to get any kind of reliable answers from the matchup charts right now :/
(kwl thread btw- most even matchups ^^)
A lot of the time the most complained about character's end up being the most represented high tiers in tournaments because a lot of the people in these threads are disadvantaged b/c of the skill level... though they interpret this as a difference in the character levels. And characters like MK and stuff will get "worst matchup" complaints a lot because even if a character (like Yoshi, if he does) has an advantage it won't show up until far into the metagame. ^^
Plus matchups that are more common will be represented more too Say, 50 people on ? boards play Mks regularly and realize he's a bad matchup (maybe 30-70) and only 10 people on the ? boards play DK mains regularly since he's a rarer main and realize he's a bad matchup say at 20-80. Even if Dk ends up being a harder matchup it will seem like Mk is just because he'll have higher representation ^^
Its really hard to get reliable answers

edit: someone suggested I should go to the different boards and make "worst matchup" threads there too ^^... it sounds like a good idea... but kinda tedious, and while it fixes some problems it introduces others...

 

[Flayl]

Bowser can swat missiles, one of the slowest projectiles in the game, with his jab.Samus takes FOREVER to actually kill Bowser. Honestly Zair is the only reason she even has the advantage, as it allows her to set up her approach.

That's right being big actually HELPS Bowser.

 

[Greenstreet]

Gah stop double posting. lol. Also cheers on taking gaw off sonic.

 

[Hive]

@Flayl- don't worry I'm not going to add Samus to Bowser, I'm trying to leave my opinions out of it, I was just wondering what other ppl thought ^^

however, the homing missiles and zairs are usually used in compliment so that if someone tries to just swat the missiles they will set themselves up for a zair afterwards... or better yet follow the homing missile just after the zair so that they both hit ^^ This is extremely easy to set up btw... Bowser has a really hard time approaching... Samus' spam games is one of the most underrated in the games
And btw, homing missiles are not often used by themselves, but more than anything just serve as a way for samus to space and pressure whether they actually hit or not... it sets up the zair fantastically....
And when you try to shield through the zairs (which is one of his only reliable way to get through)it will set him up for grab.... Size is definitely a factor in how well samus does, and bowser being large puts him at a disadvantage...,. it also accounts for why almost all of samus' bad matchups are small characters

edit: sorry for the double posts ; ; its usually a result of me responding to something someone wrote after I just* wrote the first post lol... I need to use edit more though ; ;

@Greenstreet: yea the G&W thing became more onesided so I took it down...
I think ROOOOY! says yes, and you and TehUmby both said no.... not enough support to leave it up ^^
ps sonic is sooo hard vs. samus I hate it lol he just goes right through my spam game

 

[streetracr77]

Peach falcon is 80-20 in peach's favor, no exageration. If peach decides to turnip camp and spam back air when falcon's close, there aint a thing he can do to win the match. He doesn't have any two hit combos on her either. Neutral air will break any single 2 hit stringed attack falcon has.

Oh ok thank you for clarifying. I wasn't really sure on their matchup, but I wanted to know. I didn't think it was 80-20 though, that's a huuge advantage for peach.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

@YagamiLight- G&W was added from a post by AndrewCarlson.... however seeing as how there is now one person for and one person against I took it down ^^

LOL, it wasn't me. I mentioned Meta Knight and Olimar.

 

[Yonder]

Also, for Olimar having Luigi as one of his worst matchups, I think Luigi has a slight advantage, but I don't think it's one of Olimar's worst. Olimar can keep Luigi back with his massave range, but Luigi can also cyclone alot of his pikmin away, so it's a tough call... i'll come back to this one lol. I still think Luigi only has a slight advantage, not a huge one.

 

[Praxis]

I think captain falcon is a bad match up for peach...but I could be entirely wrong...=x

Every single one of Peach's aerial moves outprioritizes Captain Falcon's entire air and ground game, especially floating dairs...and nair breaks all his combos.

 

[DanGR]

Is Olimar a bad matchup for MK?

Short answer: No.

 

[Hive]

LOL, it wasn't me. I mentioned Meta Knight and Olimar.

@AndrewCarlson- Ack, sorry! i really messed that up @.@ Sorry about that.
I'm not sure where I got that from, I think I miswrote it in my notes :/

 

[cj.Shark]

Pits worst matchup is MK hands down. all the advantages kirby has on pit Mk has too minus the chaingrab.
Mk just ***** pit so hard >_>

 

[Coffee™]

12. There are a lot of Pit suggestions, Andrew Carlson puts his worst matchups as MK, and G&W... Gheb_101 puts Marth and Snake, and Admiral_Bowser puts Kirby and Jigglypuff, both of which AdrewCarlson disagrees with. Cj.shark supports mk- mk seems pretty solid ^^.

I'd list Pits worst matchups are MK, G&W and Marth in that order. Neither Kirby nor Jigglypuff have advantages over Pit, and the matchup for both is simply neutral, they are annoying to face but nothing more. Pit more or less counters Snake, so i'm straight up disagreeing with Gheb there and Bowser is still one of Pit's easiest matchups, not sure if it's one of his worst but it's still pretty bad for Bowser.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Whoever put the myth that Pit counters Snake into the world is a godforsaken fool.

Go to the Snake boards and tell them about Pit countering Snake and they'll lugh in your face

 

[ROOOOY!]

Pit counters Snake?
In bizarro land maybe.

I also think people should stop arguing that Olimar is a bad match-up for MK. The notion is 100% ridiculous.

Anyway, I'll say now that that 'hardest match-up' thread for Sonic is way outdated. The last post was months ago.

And I don't mind that G&W was taken down for Sonic. I thought that this thread specifically needed the three worst match-ups. I put down MK and Wario because they're more or less certain, then just put down a pretty hard match-up at the end because I couldn't think of another. I can't think of anyone harder than G&W though.

The problem with Sonic's match-ups is that every single main plays completely differently to the next. One Sonic mains easiest match-ups may be anothers difficult one, just because playstyles vary so drastically.
Note : This doesn't apply with Wario. EVERYONE struggles against him, or at least should do ._.

I very strongly contest Olimar being one of Sonic's hardest match-ups though. You should write my name down on there twice, lol.

 

[Hive]

I'm lost... I don't see pit countering snake anywhere @.@
what are you guys arguing?

 

[Bnzaaa]

done and done. ^^ I think Bnzaa suggested Sheik as one of ICs bad matchups ^^ but he didn't sound so sure... glad you corrected that.

If I did, it is a mistake. I meant that Sheik gets destroyed by the Ice Climbers but I don't know the matchup.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Sudai]

Take Zelda and DDD off the ROB list. Neither's a good match-up, but the MK and GnW match-ups are -far- worse for ROB.

ROB outranges Zelda like hell and can just Zone her to death.
ROB just plays by the ledge a lot against D3. His size makes him an easy target for ROB's low % combos and ROB outcamps him like hell. Just keep running away and staying close to the ledge or on platforms.

 

[Inui]

Have they lost to any Olimar players before?

And what levitas said. IMO Ness is even with IC. He may even have the advantage O_o

I lost to Atomsk's Olimar twice and BlackWaltz's once. Mew2King lost a tournay match to Starzonedge and has lost friendlies to Atomsk's Olimar.

 

[Tien2500]

I lost to Atomsk's Olimar twice and BlackWaltz's once. Mew2King lost a tournay match to Starzonedge and has lost friendlies to Atomsk's Olimar.

The question is though do they lost consistently (at least half the times) to comparable skill olimars.

Anyway PT's worst match is probably Marth.
Individually Squirtle's is either ZSS, Marth, or Yoshi.
Ivy's is MK.
Charizard I'm not sure.

ZSS' might be Lucario.

 

[chimpact]

forgot diddy kong. Id say Falco is his worst matchup, because of the lasers and reflector nullifying the bananas. He has an amazing glidetoss too.

 

[Mmac]

What does "Top 5 Lowest Tier Characters to Make the List" Mean?

If it's what I think it means, then I am going to be very insulted, and then people are going to be eaten!

Edit: I am also with the Yoshi > Wario Crowd. I haven't really seen much proof on the "Grab Break" on Yoshi yet, and it seems to be fickle (For me at least) at best.

 

[Tien2500]

Actually speaking of low tiered characters Samus may be PTs toughest match. A good Zamus shuts Zard down with Zair and Ivy is outcamped. Squirtle is just ok. Its a tough fight. Maybe as tough as Marth.

 

[Dyyne]

Also, for Olimar having Luigi as one of his worst matchups, I think Luigi has a slight advantage, but I don't think it's one of Olimar's worst. Olimar can keep Luigi back with his massave range, but Luigi can also cyclone alot of his pikmin away, so it's a tough call... i'll come back to this one lol. I still think Luigi only has a slight advantage, not a huge one.

Cyclone, and I think jab, can also interrupt oli's grab, since it doesn't have grab armor. Not to mention luigi's nair ***** oli's air game, except for up-air which can't be used from a sh to hit luigi's nair from a sh.

 

[ice_cream_man]

where's diddy?

 

[doom dragon 105]

Who said Ike vs Olimar and Ike vs Falco was his worst!

that su wrong

Ike vs DDD and Ike vs Snake Ike vs wolf maybe

 

[Veggi]

where's diddy?

Bananas>matchups

 

[J4pu]

I was under the opinion Falco was one of Snake's worst match-ups considering the either 0-death or 0-80% Chain Grab, but I also know DDD fights Snake well. I don't understand Pikachu though.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Marth has one bad matchup. MK is at 65:35 or 60:40 (it's being re-discussed) for him.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

wait, lucario has the disadvantage in snkae fight? and in the thread you had for lucario it's an old discussion about lucario's CG on snake that stops at like 40 if snake drops the nade...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176912

Lucario vs Snake is 50:50 according to Luc boards.

 

[Gindler]

I've noticed MK and GW being recurring themes

Marth has one bad matchup. MK is at 65:35 or 60:40 (it's being re-discussed) for him.

Well it's worst matchups, so the others must be his worst neutrals...

 

[Hive]

hey sorry for not updating this in the last two days guys I was out a few days, promise I'll get to it tomorrow