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Yoshi Matchup Thread

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Mmac

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Right now, MK is standing at a 6:4 MK, 5:5, or even 6:4 Yoshi. I'm still standing by the Even 5:5. Yoshi has just as many ways to get around MK, as MK can get around him. I forgot to mention that Yoshi also plays a better counter game due to his pivot grabs, which can cancel out a dash, his Tornado, and his Drill Rush.

I really like to see what the MK players think about the Yoshi vs. MetaKnight matchup.

Also, Against Wario. The Fabled Infinite DOES indeed work! If he's on a flat stage and not under a platform, it makes Wario Completely helpless once you get the timing, and you can even 0-Death him. I really want to say 9:1. Just one grab and your pretty much done for unless Yoshi screws up
 

AzSvFeZ

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Yea, well you know what I think, you guys put a lot of effort into this, but your gonna have to play every character in the game if you do it competitively, you have this match up, but if you have to face a ddd in a tourny, you do what you can to beat them, its really not a matter of if your advantaged or not its how well you play, not saying I'm the best, but I just started writing and this came out. It may or may not matter but still. Even if your disadvantaged you should still strive to be good enough to beat them.

Just figured I would throw that in there... its not a technique so its... bleh
 

Kiwikomix

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Yea, well you know what I think, you guys put a lot of effort into this, but your gonna have to play every character in the game if you do it competitively, you have this match up, but if you have to face a ddd in a tourny, you do what you can to beat them, its really not a matter of if your advantaged or not its how well you play, not saying I'm the best, but I just started writing and this came out. It may or may not matter but still. Even if your disadvantaged you should still strive to be good enough to beat them.

Just figured I would throw that in there... its not a technique so its... bleh
Absolutely. The purposes of this chart are:
1. To be able to understand when Yoshi is a good or bad choice and when he's getting counterpicked.
2. To show which matches you should prepare to have a harder time with.
3. Determine strategies on how to beat an opponent and things to keep in mind. (This part's the most important but we haven't really been able to start it yet)

So really, it should be helpful in the long run. Or at least I hope it is.
 
D

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Absolutely. The purposes of this chart are:
1. To be able to understand when Yoshi is a good or bad choice and when he's getting counterpicked.
2. To show which matches you should prepare to have a harder time with.
3. Determine strategies on how to beat an opponent and things to keep in mind. (This part's the most important but we haven't really been able to start it yet)

So really, it should be helpful in the long run. Or at least I hope it is.
Well put. Also for zelda:

Like i said, u can just wait it out and force zelda to approach with SH nairs and such, and if she tries to approach with foward moving SH dins fire, u can just nair her, which goes through dins as well. Her smashes are gay and i dont know how to DI out of them. Her ground game beats yours, and her ground game beats your aerial game generally, but her aerial game is really bad (fairs and bairs are meh in brawl). If she doesnt approach, ur gonna have to approach carefully, so nair through dins, then try and lure out smashes, and maybe do rising bairs on her shield, and dont come from above (usmash kills =/). I dont have enough experience to elaborate on this matchup, but id say its evenish.
 

Depster

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I think the Yoshi vs. Dedede matchup should be even or 6:4 Yoshi. Dedede can't chaingrab Yoshi which really hurts his game, IMO. Yoshi has such an easy time of camping verse him and can hit dedede so easily with dedede's big frame. The only moves that I really feel that Yoshi doesn't do well against is Dedede's Bair, everything else is easy to beat.
 

Mmac

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Dedede can't chaingrab Yoshi which really hurts his game, IMO.
Uh... no he cant (Unless there's something I don't know about) I know that Yoshi can get out of it easier than the others if Dedede doesn't react right away though.

If he can get out of it, then I will agree with the even 5:5
 
D

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I think the Yoshi vs. Dedede matchup should be even or 6:4 Yoshi. Dedede can't chaingrab Yoshi which really hurts his game, IMO. Yoshi has such an easy time of camping verse him and can hit dedede so easily with dedede's big frame. The only moves that I really feel that Yoshi doesn't do well against is Dedede's Bair, everything else is easy to beat.
Uhhh D3 can cg yoshi, and he can also outcamp yoshi. But we already covered this a while ago -.-
 

Bwett

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Nope you can jab out of it

And I don't know what you mean by outcamp, yoshi has much better range
I didn't know you could get out of his cg with a jab. I'll test it out next time I play one. Also, I agree with you that Yoshi outcamps D3 entirely. Because of the large target and D3's weak throw range, you can make a pretty good wall of eggs with ETS and ECE's. Also, because of D3's slow horizontal aerial movement, it's extremely difficult for him to do SH air dodging or approaching in general.

EDIT: Oops, didn't know yall covered DDD already. Wouldn't have typed so much lol.
 

SOVAman

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Have we decided MK yet or what. I think it is a 5:5 but we haven't decided. I think we should make a decision on this. I think it is a 5:5 because of the easy CG and Yoshi beats MK in the aerial game. But, MK beats Yoshi in speed and the ground game.

5:5 neutral
 

Bwett

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Have we decided MK yet or what. I think it is a 5:5 but we haven't decided. I think we should make a decision on this. I think it is a 5:5 because of the easy CG and Yoshi beats MK in the aerial game. But, MK beats Yoshi in speed and the ground game.

5:5 neutral
I agree for the same reasons, along with the fact that yoshi's eggs break all of MK's special moves, but MK is fast enough that if you don't hit him, you will get punished (Which is just a specific version of what yoshi king said...but I wanted to say it so there lol).
 

SOVAman

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I agree for the same reasons, along with the fact that yoshi's eggs break all of MK's special moves, but MK is fast enough that if you don't hit him, you will get punished (Which is just a specific version of what yoshi king said...but I wanted to say it so there lol).
Glad we agree hopefully he changes it. :ohwell:
 
D

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Nope you can jab out of it

And I don't know what you mean by outcamp, yoshi has much better range
Not if they do it right, if u dont buffer a dash u can jab, but anyways, they can ftilt afterwards anyways even if u are jabbing them out of it.

Waddles tie with eggs and he can pump them out faster.
 

Depster

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Not if they do it right, if u dont buffer a dash u can jab, but anyways, they can ftilt afterwards anyways even if u are jabbing them out of it.

Waddles tie with eggs and he can pump them out faster.
But he can't chaingrab Yoshi. Period. Test it for yourself, there are a few frames that yoshi can jab out of the grab.

Is called walk backward and use yoshi's range.
 

AzSvFeZ

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you don't have any data on lucas, I did a bunch of human and cpu matches with him today and I was thinking 7:3 advantage, I don't have any problems whatsoever.
 

Kiwikomix

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@ Dedede: Regardless of when Yoshi can get out of the cg, Dedede still has plenty of other options. For example, his grabrange is godly and is a big disadvantage when coupled with Yoshi's ability to be shieldgrabbed. Bair approaches will be shieldgrabbed. Nairs will be shieldgrabbed. It's like running up to a shielding Marth in Melee. Yoshi's only option is to approach from above, and since downB will always be utilted, that leaves dair as Yoshi's prevalent approach. And yes, Dedede CAN outcamp Yoshi, since Waddles and Gordos come out faster and don't get canceled by eggs. These factors combined force Yoshi to get creative and avoid predictability. For example, the Yoshi might try bairing through Waddles and landing far enough to avoid a grab, then ftilting or dtilting to hit from far away or harass the shield. This won't work every time, so Yoshi will have problems getting a hit in the first place.
That being said, Yoshi does have some high points in this matchup. Dair is pretty much god, since it will either destroy Dedede's shield or almost every kick will hit. Dedede's upB can be hit with a uair if you know where it's going. Eggs off the edge are great. And, of course, Yoshi's moves will tend to lead into each other more frequently due to Dedede's enormous bulk. BUT this is assuming Yoshi can get a hit in first. Trust me, play a Dedede and you'll know what I mean.

@ MK: This matchup is weird. Usually Yoshi's matchups look bad on paper and are fine in-game, but this one's just the opposite. At first glance, Yoshi wins: A projectile to spam against a character that can't. Range and priority in the air. Even KOs are easier to score against this lightweight. However, once you start playing, it's ridiculous. Yoshi is a biggish target, and that means MK will be hitting him more and more with attack after attack. Bair outranges MK's aerials, but it's the only one Yoshi has that does that, so damage will become lessened and lessened. This seems like terrible advice, but in this match, Yoshi should stay grounded a lot. Why? Because of chaingrabs and tilts. Dtilt and ftilt (especially aimed upwards) are great at stopping MK's ground approaches, like running grabs or dash attacks or hyphen smashes. Chaingrabs, while they certainly don't last forever, are quite useful in this particular matchup, because they get MK up to a percentage where he can only take a few more quality hits.
One thing to keep in mind here is recovery. Yoshi's recovery is often completely ungimpable, but MK, being a multi-jump character, excels at hitting with a footstool. This is even worse when MK himself is off the stage, because going for a uair KO is a fatal mistake (it places you underneath MK in prime airdodge-to-footstool location) and fairs usually have enough windup lag for MK's quick aerial speed to maneuver around. Trust me, it's bad news. While MK doesn't beat Yoshi as badly as I still think Dedede does, I'm sticking with 6-4. Unless anyone has a good counter-argument :)

Whew, wall of texts hurt my hands.
 

Wubblez

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MK Is a disadvantage for Yoshi. I don't see how anyone could put that at neutral. People need to realize it's perfectly fine if yoshi has a lot of disadvantages and stop giving him the benefit of the doubt or sugar coating his weaknesses.
 
D

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But he can't chaingrab Yoshi. Period. Test it for yourself, there are a few frames that yoshi can jab out of the grab.

Is called walk backward and use yoshi's range.
Ive tested it plenty, if they buffer a dash, u can be chaingrabbed. I have lots and lots and lots of D3 experience, u can jab if dey mess up. Well i wont argue with you any longer on D3, neither can really camp eachother, but gordos go through eggs, wreck your shield, and waddles go faster than egs, gand anyways, D3 shouldnt have any problem approaching. As said, this has already been covered and kiwi restated it very well, thanks kiwi.


Lucas: DONT SAY CPU EVER IN THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!! Anyways, yoshis can cg lucas, and can gimp his recovery without having to worry about 10% kills like with ness =/ Lucas's ftilt is really really annoying, and walk to ftilt is like the most annoying thing in the game =P His aerials are disjointed, but usually your bair and uair beat them. Pivot grab dat nasty SH nair. Wavebouncing really isnt that good, just a minor nuacance, and i think normal SH pk gay is better, but watch out for both, and u can SH airdodge them or just run away and toss eggs. Pk freeze edgeguard normally aint so good, but it can catch u off guard so be wary of it and dont airdodge too early. Id say 6-4 yoshis favor, lucas definately can do some serious damage to an unprepared yoshi. Pk thunder edgeguards arent so effective against yoshi, lucky 4 us =)
 

bigman40

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K guys. Mmac and I tested the CG release again and found more characters.

More News!

DK, ZSS, Ike, and Dedede can be Chaingrabed also. However like the others, you need to be on the ball

Dedede on the otherhand, is probably the hardest one to CG. Seriously, he makes Sonic and Pikachu look like a piece of cake!

Also me and Big tested the Forward CG, NOBODY can be CG'ed by the forward throw, sadly. We also Chaingrabbed everyone on the Release again.

The final list on people who can be CG'ed are:

Bowser
DK
Diddy
Wario
Link
Ganondorf
ZSS
MetaKnight
Dedede
Falco (Though can break it with a well timed spotdodge)
Captain Falcon
Pikachu
Squirtle
Charizard
Ike
Lucas
Sonic

17 Isn't bad, that's like a bit less than half the Roster
This should help on the matchups.
 
D

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Random thought: Ganny is 7:3 at least. Yoshi can camp Ganny, pivot grab those annoying thunderstomps, then cg him for quite a few damage, then rinse and repeat. You really have to not make mistakes, cuz ganny can 0-40 u from an autocancelled dair, and flame choke is painful (the best thing to do usually imo is to do a get up attack, cuz getting grabbed is alot better than getting fsmashed from a back roll, or daired from a foward roll =/). The camp and cg stratigy can also be extremely frusterating for a ganny player, which can often lead to more mistakes by them.
 

Swordplay

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on the chaingrab note....I like the fact that I can CG link but a good link is almost always carrying a bomb to blast him out of it it seems.

Kind of makes CG on him a lot less practical. Also since link camps there will probably be a gale out there and when that comes back it messes up CG spacing
 

Mmac

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on the chaingrab note....I like the fact that I can CG link but a good link is almost always carrying a bomb to blast him out of it it seems.

Kind of makes CG on him a lot less practical. Also since link camps there will probably be a gale out there and when that comes back it messes up CG spacing
Actually, I would think that the Gale would make it EASIER to CG him. Though, I guess the Bomb thing is true, but I haven't used a Link who uses too many bombs yet.
 

ChronoPenguin

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explain the ratio's to me please and thank you.

About DK
Egg toss hits dk well because of his size, once dk is about 20%, getting hit by a egg toss isn't what he wants, it pretty much stuns him enough that if he gets hit by an egg up close, yoshi can dash or grab him.

If near a ledge yoshi dash attacks him off, whatever happens there is.
A) F-air kill by yoshi
B) uair kill by yoshi
c) footstool
d) d air doesn't seem to be that practical to me.
e) dk b-airs yoshi either killing him or knocking him back enough that DK can recover.
f) yoshi screws up the spacing and gets hit by a f-air by dk instead of his own f-air.
g)yoshi gets himself footstool'd...hope its not your 2nd jump =P.
 

Mmac

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We haven't really been discussing characters for awhile, so I'll bring a few more up.

First Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff has little chance against Yoshi. Jigglypuff is superior in the Air, but Yoshi actually has a better air game than her. All of Yoshi Air's are better in range or priority, or at least Equal. I won't even discuss her ground game. Being that Jigglypuff is Floaty as hell, she's a slow moving target that's easy to his, which can easily set up combos or kills. Yoshi's DJ Armour makes Jigglypuff harder to juggle him, which locks down one of her few combo potential and kill moves she haves. Finally Rollout can be easily countered by a well timed Pivot Grab which shut's down another Killmove. the only thing she's got left is a well place Rest, which could easily get her killed if missed. I say this is around 7:3 or 8:2 Yoshi. It's clearly in Yoshi's Advantage.


Secondly Lucario. Lucario has got to be one of Yoshi's hardest, or not, THE Hardest character to fight. Lucario's Air game beats out Yoshi's airgame in almost every direction, causing a huge problem. When Lucario is on the ground, His tilts and Smashes practically set up a wall in which is hard to pierce. Top that off with a nasty Shield Grab, SideB combos, and the Aura Sphere, which can actually pierce Yoshi's Egg Roll if his % is over 90, and you got one difficult to approach character. The only good thing is that if you manage to get him over the edge, then he's pretty easy to gimp. I say 7:3 Lucario.


Finally DK, since were already talking about him. Just like the other Big Characters, Yoshi's multihit attacks and Egg's tear him up. Yoshi Air Game beat's DK's badly, though they can still hurt if your not careful (Especially the Bair). On the Ground however is a different story. DK's Reach is **** scary, and pretty quick also. It's the #1 thing to look out for. Getting DK over the edge (Which you should easily with Chaingrabs ;) ), He's actually a pretty hard character to gimp. You can easily peg him with Egg's, but his UpB makes it very hard to spike. You can easily kill him though with a Uair if your Under him, so that's a plus. Speaking of Uair, DK seems to be the easiest character to combo with Yoshi. While DK Does have 3 Spikes, they're all easy to see coming and can be easily avoided. The last thing though is the Dreaded Headbutt + Giant Punch Combo.

While an Aggressive DK Player is quite easy to take care of. A Defencive DK is generally more bothersome. I'm going to say 5:5, or 4:6 Yoshi

Also Wario should be changed to 7:3, maybe even worse

Discuss
 

Kiwikomix

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*cracks knuckles*

First Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff has little chance against Yoshi. Jigglypuff is superior in the Air, but Yoshi actually has a better air game than her. All of Yoshi Air's are better in range or priority, or at least Equal. I won't even discuss her ground game. Being that Jigglypuff is Floaty as hell, she's a slow moving target that's easy to his, which can easily set up combos or kills. Yoshi's DJ Armour makes Jigglypuff harder to juggle him, which locks down one of her few combo potential and kill moves she haves. Finally Rollout can be easily countered by a well timed Pivot Grab which shut's down another Killmove. the only thing she's got left is a well place Rest, which could easily get her killed if missed. I say this is around 7:3 or 8:2 Yoshi. It's clearly in Yoshi's Advantage.
Poor Jiggz. Her aerial game was so nerfed in priority that Yoshi should have no problem harassing her with bairs, uairs, and nairs. Even her bair, which is by far her best aerial, is nerfed in usefulness because Yoshi can't be shield poked.
Nothing to fear from the stubby-legged kicks on the ground, though fsmash has pretty surprising range. It's not like Jiggz will be spending time there.
One small note: rollout can be sort of hard to handle if Yoshi doesn't react in time. DON'T THROW AN EGG. You'll just get punished for it. The best thing to do is attempt to time it right with an ftilt or grab (note that a pivot grab will take time to set up, and an ftilt will only cancel the rollout, not go through it, so follow up with a jab). Egg roll is usually an option as well, but beware its windup lag... if you didn't react in time, you'll eat a big hit. This cancels out rollout as well, so follow with jabs or tilts.
A note on Jiggz' floatiness: Eggs while she's recovering will be pretty useless, but given her slow rate of approach, they're great at the beginning of the match... though you should beware an instant rollout. Also, her light weight all but negates Yoshi's problems killing, so there's a disadvantage of each character canceled out by each other.
You may be exaggerating a bit on her kill moves, seeing as she still has fsmash and the WOP (though Yoshi could always jump out of it). Pound is also an option once Yoshi is at a higher percentage.
A final thing: Avoid shielding too much, more so in this match than in most others. Pound eats shields alive, and Jiggz can usually stay airborne long enough to poke-poke-poke at it even if she can't shieldstab.
If Jiggz could force Yoshi to go on the defensive, she would have this matchup made. However, she lacks the skills to capitalize on Yoshi's weaknesses, and that's why he has an advantage. I hesitate to make it an 8:2 but 7:3 sounds very reasonable.

LoL, I can't believe I wrote all that about Jigglypuff of all characters :laugh:

Secondly Lucario. Lucario has got to be one of Yoshi's hardest, or not, THE Hardest character to fight. Lucario's Air game beats out Yoshi's airgame in almost every direction, causing a huge problem. When Lucario is on the ground, His tilts and Smashes practically set up a wall in which is hard to pierce. Top that off with a nasty Shield Grab, SideB combos, and the Aura Sphere, which can actually pierce Yoshi's Egg Roll if his % is over 90, and you got one difficult to approach character. The only good thing is that if you manage to get him over the edge, then he's pretty easy to gimp. I say 7:3 Lucario.
Not much about this one I can say, because I'm unfortunately lacking in the Lucario knowledge department (hint: I secretly hate that guy). But I think he deserves the advantage just because of one reason alone, and that's Yoshi's problems killing. Inability to KO + damage multipliers = bad matchup. Any other input on this one? I'd like to get another knowledgable opinion on the ratio, because I'm lost.

Finally DK, since were already talking about him. Just like the other Big Characters, Yoshi's multihit attacks and Egg's tear him up. Yoshi Air Game beat's DK's badly, though they can still hurt if your not careful (Especially the Bair). On the Ground however is a different story. DK's Reach is **** scary, and pretty quick also. It's the #1 thing to look out for. Getting DK over the edge (Which you should easily with Chaingrabs ;) ), He's actually a pretty hard character to gimp. You can easily peg him with Egg's, but his UpB makes it very hard to spike. You can easily kill him though with a Uair if your Under him, so that's a plus. Speaking of Uair, DK seems to be the easiest character to combo with Yoshi. While DK Does have 3 Spikes, they're all easy to see coming and can be easily avoided. The last thing though is the Dreaded Headbutt + Giant Punch Combo.

While an Aggressive DK Player is quite easy to take care of. A Defencive DK is generally more bothersome. I'm going to say 5:5, or 4:6 Yoshi
Like you said, multihits (dair and bair ftw) destroy DK worse than they do Dedede. DK may as well stay out of the air in this matchup, as his only viable move is his bair and he will rarely be facing away from you.
Spamming may be a bit difficult, as I'm fairly sure he cancels out eggs with f-tilt. I've noticed, however, that it's pretty hard to cancel out on a regular basis, so you'll get a few hits in. He doesn't approach fast enough to stop the spam anyway, so feel free to start with a small spam until he gets close.
Mmac got it completely right on the ground game... it's got fantastic range. Ftilt and utilt can stop Yoshi's bair and dair approaches a lot of the time. The best thing to do is let him come to you, then try a pivot grab into cg or a few tilts of your own. A lot of his smashes are pretty laggy, so do your best to punish them with aerials.
DK's recovery is actually not too hard to punish imo... eggs are fun, and dair will beat his uair. Unfortunately, uairs leave Yoshi susceptible to his worst enemy, the footstool. Use with caution. But yeah, gimping usually won't occur. At least Yoshi can tack on a bit more damage.
Overall, this will be a pretty long fight. Both characters will last forever, and each have entirely different styles that can be hard to read. However, each character has enough going for them that I think it should be considered neutral.

Also Wario should be changed to 7:3, maybe even worse
Why exactly? Grab release into usmash is fun, but I don't think it really has a big enough factor on the gameplay to swing it into Yoshi's favor.

Like always, any comments are appreciated.
 

Mmac

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Why exactly? Grab release into usmash is fun, but I don't think it really has a big enough factor on the gameplay to swing it into Yoshi's favor.
Easier Infinite Chaingrab. While I never used it yet (Wario Mains seem to hard to come by), I heard from another Wario main that Defender (Local Yoshi) manage to easily destroy him with it. It's basically a 0-Death combo, and it's easy to grab Wario if you master the Quick Pivot Grab.
 

bigman40

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I would say 6:4 is a more reasonable one. Infinite does have odd and hard timing. And it's hard to counter him in the air, due to his odd speed.
 

Depster

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Either way I think Yoshi has a decisive advantage on Wario. Yoshi counters Wario's spam move (Dair) with jab, Usmash, grab, bair, and probably Ftilt, too.
 

Chaco

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I say 6:4 to, I don't think his disadvantage is that great to Wario.

However I do not feel Samus has that great of an disadvantage to Yoshi.
 

ChronoPenguin

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explain the bloody ratio's to me T_T.

Either way Yoshi either is neutral to DK (i say this cus of his back air and his ground reach) or yoshi beats him,

I've been playing a snake character for a while now >.>
Yoshi doesn't seem that disadvantaged.

out of everything snake does, the 2 worst things he's done are
1) Snake dancing
2) Grenade spam.

I think yoshi's f-air comes out faster too.

Maybe it's a slight disadvantage >.> mines only get you once you start to get fatigued and you stop thinking.
 

Kiwikomix

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explain the bloody ratio's to me T_T.
Sure... if the two players playing as each character play ten matches, then the ratios are a prediction of how many games each player will win. Simply put, it's a way of determining how easy or hard a matchup would be.

I've been playing a snake character for a while now >.>
Yoshi doesn't seem that disadvantaged.
I personally thought it should be 6:4, but Burntsocks put up enough of a persuasive argument that I kept it undecided.

Edit: @ Chaco: What does Samus do in the matchup to stop Yoshi?
 

Chaco

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Projectlie spamming, I mean Samus can bay you completely.
 

Kiwikomix

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Not really as much as she tries to. Bair will break through missiles and (I think) charge shot. Fully charged might be a problem but she doesn't get it too often and it was nerfed anyway.

Off-subject: Now that the infinite-grab on Wario has been developed, I'll change it to 6:4. I hesitate to make it go any farther though.

Off-subject #2: I need a ratio on Lucario.
 

Mmac

Smash Lord
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Apr 8, 2008
Messages
1,967
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BC, Canada
I agree that Samus should be 6:4. Even though she's been nerfed, She's still a force to be reckoned with, if used correctly. Her projectiles can be mean, but I still think Yoshi still has the upper hand. I haven't really played many Samus's, though the ones I did play are pretty tough, and that Zair is annoying as hell.

Snake I feel should be 6:4 also. I feel like Snake is nowhere near like fighting Falco or Lucario, as Yoshi has way more options to fight back, and has more ways of getting around him. Plus Snake is a really easy opponent to spike with the Fair.
 

Kiwikomix

Smash Ace
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Nov 3, 2007
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927
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Ames, IA
When it was just me vs burntsocks it was questionable, but now it seems like there's quite a majority in favor of 6:4 Snake. I guess I'll change it.
 

bigman40

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
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Just another day.
Reason why snake is being lowered is because Yoshi can take out the projectiles and traps he uses, and can stop his approach with pivot grabs. While snake can tilt and shield grab the crap out of Yoshi.

Lucario is about a 7:3. I haven't fought a good one yet, but luc's range, CG and (DBZ) power can hurt Yoshi horribly. Pivot grabs are more than useful here cause they are the only things to stop Lucario's approaches.
Lucario's air game > Yoshi's air game. Possibly, Lucario's ground game = Yoshi's ground game. He's just too much for Yoshi with that CG (up to 50% possibly?), and the range. Eggs, and pivot grabs are about the only thing Yoshi can do to slow down Lucario too
 
D

Deleted member

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Uhh alot of this stuff is iffy. Jiggs is 6-4 yoshi imo, cuz jiggs may not be able to beat your bair directly, but if jiggs can get you while u are facing foward, you are in for some pain. Yoshi's shield can block dair to rest which is nice tho, and u outkill, and low% uairs are great.

Dk beats yoshi. At first i thought it was yoshis advantage, but then i realized how DK can just stay on the ground and he beats yoshi pretty decently. Walk to Ftilt>yoshi lol. If they approach from the air, they have troubles with egg spam and pivot grabs, but DK can just walk, shield, ftilt. Also tech those stage spikes =P Dk outpriotizes and outranges you everywhere, so you cant really approach well. He also outkills you (donkey pawnch!).

Wtf is with this lucario crap, lucario isnt hard imo. I mean, maybe i havent played good enough lucarios, but i seriously dont see how it could be any worst than 6-4. Id say even, but i dunno why =/ Hes disjointed all over which is annoying, and u cant juggle him T-T However, he cant really chain fairs offstage cuz of yoshis super armor on his double jump. Defensive lucarios are a pain, but i find spacing bairs right outside of his shield to be effective, because if he tries to fsmash, you can punish (lots of lucarios space with that). You cant directly take him on in the air, but hes floaty, so tho u usually cant uair, you can sometimes get a few eggs on an airbourne lucario. Also lucarios recovery sucks, and if u get the first kill, you can often survive much later due to lucarios low base power at low %s.

Thats all
 
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