Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia! This is Halloween! Town Wins!!!!!!

Cello_Marl said:

Did I say "the scum faction"? On that note, why are we assuming that there is only one? I'm beginning to think that two factions is more likely.

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This is interesting, How many would be on each faction? 2 seems way underpowered when 3 seems too anti-town. Especially considering I strongly suspect from my knowledge of J that there is an Indy in this game.

Exclude indy for now: 2 3-man scumteams each with a kill and then group anti-town together. Run worst case scenario

D1 - 12v6
D2 - 9v6
D3 - 6v6


same dealio but with 2 on each scumteam worst case scenario for scum

D1 14v4
D2 13v2 (one faction gone)
D3 12v1
Game 12 town win

I find both of those unlikely Cello

While I'm at it dumping mod-meta (feel free to disregard if you're that sort of person) J's favourite roles are Abductor and Poisoner, he is absolutely crazy about the poisoner role and always goes on about it in AIMmaf and how its his fav. role (someone can back me up). I know its very easy to discard stuff like this but I'd actually bet now there is a poisoner of some kind in this game. Also worth mentioning I've talked to J lots about mafia so don't fall into the trap of thinking "J is new, he wont have heard of X role, player Y must be lying"

J also said he spent ages on this set-up if that ever becomes relevant

/memory/meta dump

@X1: Worst case scenario is actually worse than what you say, since the scum factions could cross-shoot and kill two scum on N1, thus leading to a D2 13-man win.

Still, you've assumed several things, most importantly an even number of members per faction and a mafia NK per faction. It could be 12(with vig)/3(no kill)/2(kill)/1 (indy). 12/3(NK)/2(NK)/1(indy), with stronger PRs for the second group. I'm personally assuming two NKs due to the size of the game, but whatev. Also, what is the difference between scum screwing up and helping town with their NKs and a town vig making a correct shot? None really, in terms of the end result. Usually, that factor is balanced in PRs, not player count.

I doubt there is an abductor. Since it is a non-killing role, I think it would have processed N0. That, and if it turns out to be Tiger after all, then he's dead as dead. We'll know that toMorrow at any rate. Same thing for Poisoner by D2 at the latest.

@Rockin: Why are you trying to undermine SephMasa?

This is UTDZac, edited for space

Haha Gord you really let yourself go. Try eating less sweets next time.
Also, can't wait to watch this movie. Not sure how i've gone so long without seeing it.
Vote: Rockin
For being the last one to confirm. Rafe

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Swiss may be obv scum, but Rockin man... totally scum. Either is a good play for today.

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Gordito, vote yourself

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So with that said, tiger why did you claim your roulette ability? If you answered this already then I'm sorry for missing it in the past 50 pages.

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Ha, you should have played Discworld mafia with me.
At any rate, I still don't think Tiger answered my question a while back.
@Rockin: I don't like the fact that Tiger claimed. The argument between Gordito and Cello was totally uncalled for, and as much as I'd like to try to make a case against one of them for it, I just don't think it's reasonable to use the argument against them.
@Cello, I don't understand your question regarding Gord's punishment...

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@Cello, I see the argument as a null read. And no I'm not throwing my vote on Dooms. And I have no idea what you meant by this: "You only know me as scum, you don't know me as town. Know me as town. And win. Or lose, if you're scum. But win."

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I will also be away the following two to three days because of christmas.
Unvote

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So, here is EVERYTHING that UTDZac has posted in this game. Rockin, defend your position that Zac has provided more content than Spear Pillar. A few things of note; Tiger had already explained why he claimed (he tallied votes incorrectly out of game), the only other stance he's made is "Cello and Gord are scummy but I don't want to talk about why because it's not 'reasonable' to do so" (whatever that means).

Conversely, Spear Pillar went out of his way to correct a faulty premise of mine, which, had he left it alone, would have left him in a better position. Why do this at all? He literally gained nothing from it (I've never seen someone say "that hydra is town!" for saying which head said something). He even posted a town and scum list (one I disagree with for the most part, but whatever). You can't really "take stances" more than that. If you don't like why people are where they are on it, ask them about it.

I voted yes on Spear Pillar said:

I just wanna say, you guys have no lives whatsoever, how do you guys manage to put so much content out there over christmastime? Seriously.

Given the other obligations that people have during this time, I'd say it's a little early to start calling people out for inactivity lynches, so rather then going for a safe lynch why don't you try asking some questions to, I dunno, determine my alignment, or pressure the slot into being active?

Inactive lynches are only when you don't have scum reads on anyone.

Why do people think this?

Seriously, scum will figure out whose the most town by the end of the day, they have more people to analyze it and more time. However having townies make town lists creates stances that can be analyzed, usually in conjunction with flips or to search for connections. Especially since consistently giving them gives a picture of what causes people to change those stances allowing us to better analyze people, town/scumlists are ridiculously useful and we should all be giving them on a semi-consistent basis.

So far...
Leaning town:
Cello
x-1
Tiger
swiss
Two-pichus

Leaning scum:
Gordito
Rockin
Zen

Unsure of all else, but only had a chance to skim so far so expect updated reads along with analysis soon.
Once since the game started, Gallax is a bit mia right now so I have really had a chance to talk with him about anything, plus I've been very busy. Dunno if it's simply because I haven't been around when he's around or he's simply busy too but I'm guessing the latter atm.

Question, why you saying it's a flip?

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This is more than EVERYTHING that UTDZac has "talked" about. You can't possibly believe otherwise.

Oh, also, Tiger, I want you to target me after all.

I am confused about almost everything that's going on around here. I'm going to have to do some serious rereading tomorrow -___-.

I wanna lynch Seph, for two reasons:

1. For a buncha stuff that a buncha people have been saying wrt wishy washiness, inability to take stances, bla bla bla. Cuz yea, it's all true (I'd rather lynch Joey, but time's dwindling down and Cello's the only one who really agrees with me here, so *shrug*).

2. @Mod, hypothetically, if there was a closed mason, or neighbors, of some sort, would it be revealed upon flip that said player was in a closed mason, or a neighbor?

This is important because, obviously, it can be dangerous if Rockin is making some sort of a crazy gambit. It'd be freaking risky to think of a gambit like that, but possible.

Hmm... two scum teams... I don't wanna get into flavour determining the game, but...

What of the possibility, that Rockin and Seph can be neighbors of different scum teams O_O? J, u crazy enough ta pull dat shiz off, I know dat. That'd be super funny. But an honest thought. What do people feel about that possibility?

Here's why people should shift over to voting for Joey:

Rockin: SephMasa is your neighbor, and you don't have any overtly negative sentiments of him. If you allow him to die, I'll make it my personal mission to see you destroyed.

Gord: You want him lynched.

SephMasa: It's you or him. This isn't about survival for you, it's that your faction needs as much power as possible, so don't die. So it is I guess, but do it for me.

Zen: You believe SephMasa to be town, so better to lynch someone else, right?

That will put the two lynch candidates at 5 apiece, and as long as we stick to our guns, they'll move over. And failing that, whoever is the sixth vote (or seven, if Joey decides that he wants to vote for SephMasa, surprising really that he hasn't already done so given what's going on) on SephMasa is announcing their intent that a townie should die over scum.

Gord if youd rather vote Joey then vote Joey. You're doing the opposite of what you're saying and it's scummy.

I was thinking it was likely there was more than one faction as well because in the OP J takes the time to say he wont mention how many factions there are. Gord your last post is interesting. J would do some epic stuff like that. But mmmmktgmjtg

I don't have a reason to vote Seph at this time. We still have 4 days and I don't see him as scum yet. I'm going to reread his posts tomorrow. Tiger's too.

Yes Cello I agree.

@Zen: Would you be so kind as to place your vote on Joey, please?

@Swiss: Joey believes that Gord, me, and Tiger are scum. He couldn't even tell what Gord's punishment was, as well as mine. Do you really want him anywhere NEAR lylo?

Cello_Marl said:

Rockin: SephMasa is your neighbor, and you don't have any overtly negative sentiments of him. If you allow him to die, I'll make it my personal mission to see you destroyed.

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Yeah yeah yeah, w/e. Not sure how I can 'allow' him to die at this point. People is going to have to take the claim or leave it.

Also, this doesn't explain why Joey is a good lynch canidate. I kinda like my spot with Gova (which needs a bit more votes imo).

Zεη said:

Gord if youd rather vote Joey then vote Joey. You're doing the opposite of what you're saying and it's scummy.

I was thinking it was likely there was more than one faction as well because in the OP J takes the time to say he wont mention how many factions there are. Gord your last post is interesting. J would do some epic stuff like that. But mmmmktgmjtg

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weak stuff that copypasta is in liek the ruleset of almost every game

Cello_Marl said:

@Zen: Would you be so kind as to place your vote on Joey, please?

@Swiss: Joey believes that Gord, me, and Tiger are scum. He couldn't even tell what Gord's punishment was, as well as mine. Do you really want him anywhere NEAR lylo?

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can we just call him vigbait and leave him for later, if hes still alive lynch him later

Generic reasons for Joey death = good.

1) He thought that Tiger was a good lynch for speculating over "obvious" things that were ultimately shown to likely be something that we didn't think it was, specifically the "town role = maker fun-er of Gorditer" (not a real quote). Tiger also explained that J may have been influenced by one of his ideas, and yet Joey kept clinging to Tiger-lynch.
2) He painted Tiger's role in as negative a light as possible, saying "the fact that a role that chooses random things to do can kill is making my stomach turn upside down" when this is COMPLETELY BASELESS. So far, all we know is one ability. That's it. But, he tried to make Tiger look like a reckless maniac due to his role. Calling something revolting isn't caution, it's fearmongering.
3) "Ninja'd so many times. He could die tonight by targeting himself. I think he should target others at first, but start targeting himself as he starts to learn his possible abilities and such." What was with the sudden change of heart? He went from "he'll kill us all!" to "target others, then himself", without any explanation.
4) Jumped on the burgeoning Gordito wagon, with only the reason that "he fell for the AtE". So, what actual reason did he vote for Gordito? He never says. For having "a mind of his own", he certainly doesn't want to let us know what's on it.
5) Do you really want someone who couldn't figure out our punishments going anywhere past D1?
6) Oooh, there it is. Joey voted for Gordito for "wasting town's time by talking about bad things". Really. Really. He talks about how Gordito is only "focusing on proving [he] is town, instead of trying to hunt for scum", but that doesn't even make sense.
7) In conjunction with point #4: After Swiss comes in and says that Gordito is clear, he unvotes without understanding why that is the case. He asks for an explanation in the same post. But, if he was so convinced, why not ask WHY his position is wrong first? Instead, he simply caved, when he realized that the support for Gordito's lynch was gone.
8) "I don't think you, swiss, or cello can win town a victory just with you three alone." This looks like it is spoken from a position of Knowledge, especially since he supposedly thinks that I'm scum. Why include me in those 3? Actually, the more I look at that, the more this particular point is steeling my resolve. It's a scum slip. If a person says "I'm a vanilla townie" 10 times and "I'm a doctor" once, does that mean he is vanilla because he said it more? No.
9) I love how he refuses to give reasons for why he thinks Pichu isn't scummy, yet demands everything from everyone else.
10) More complete flip-flop.

Joey said:

My thoughts on this game: Tiger is scummy, his claim doesn't change much for me, the fact that a role that chooses random things to do can kill is making my stomach turn upside down, and X1 was very specific with the people he chose to list, and it was really scummy.

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Joey about Tiger said:

I'm not reading all the way back there to pull quotes from everything he's said. His play isn't not scummy, but it's Day 1 and we have a legit claim from what we know. I'm going to leave him at that.

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He does say that he'll leave him alone, but leaves it open to come back to him "unless I can't find someone more scummy later in the day." If the claim didn't do much for him back then, how is it legit? Seems more like just wanting to evade Zen/Swiss's questions.

@MK: Reread #633 and #634, and tell me why

Rockin said:

Yeah yeah yeah, w/e. Not sure how I can 'allow' him to die at this point. People is going to have to take the claim or leave it.

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@SephMasa: You're ok with your partner saying stuff like this? You shouldn't be.

@Rockin: You have your vote on Gova, but I see nothing from you in terms of pushing it. That's called "allowing SephMasa to die", seeing as people are beginning to deadline-panic and he has 6 votes.

@X1: I'll leave Joey to be vigged and Gova to be investigated if you help me build up a Rockin wagon. I won't do it to go against Seph. I'm willing to compromise and invert the vig and vestigate, if that's what it takes. What do you think about how Rockin is willing to let his partner die without taking responsibility?

@MK: Reread #633 and #634 and tell me why you aren't voting for Joey.

I'm okay with a Seph lynch, and it has more momentum, Zen. How have you not seen me state this?

The easy lynch always leads to sadness.

We'll get a Joey lynch, do it do it, prease?

@MK: Reread #633 and #634 and tell me why you aren't voting for Joey.

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I suppose I put too much faith into my interpretation of SephMasa's meta....which, tbh, still holds some credit, but this masonry relationship between Rockin and SephMasa is interesting. Cello, it's clear that you still don't necessarily trust Rockin (your own #737 in the @X1 part) so...I'm not really understanding your position. You want Joey lynched because of the reasons in #636, but you still suspect the Rockin/SephMasa duo enough to forego the Joey lynch in favor of a Rockin lynch?

So, if I'm getting this right, you trust the Seph part of the neighborhood than the Rockin one?

I'll unvote for now to reevaluate the situation.

more than the Rockin one*

I don't suspect Rockin/SephMasa at all. I suspect Rockin/Joey/someone

No, that's not right. Rockin/UTDZac/someone, and Pichu/Joey/someone.

Cello_Marl said:

@Rockin: You have your vote on Gova, but I see nothing from you in terms of pushing it. That's called "allowing SephMasa to die", seeing as people are beginning to deadline-panic and he has 6 votes.

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Again, there's nothing much I can say at this point. I did my best to presuade the lynch before the claim. Then I claim. A few people are still dead set on lynching him. I didn't even want to claim, but I needed to so as to avoid seph getting lynched.

I havn't even heard of some of the other player's opinion about the claim (Tandora, Swiss, and a few others).

@Rockin: You've claimed that Gova is your "main target". Why is the only thing that you've said against Gova is that you think his vote on SephMasa is opportunistic? You think Tanny is scum, what do you even care about her opinion for? Here, you have a completely captive audience. Explain to me why Gova is scum.

What's that noise?

Everyone was bickering amongst one another while they all stood in a circle in the middle of the town hall just trying to pick sides and everything.

Everyone was becoming really heated with the words as they all tried to think of someone who would try and ruin their preparations for making a Christmas of their own again. People were having votes thrown at them, some watched as the people argued, and others yelled across the room at each other.

................Then. Suddenly out of nowhere a loud shrill sound erupted into the hall. Everyone fell silent as they waited for the sound to stop. Someone howled at it, others shrieked, and some people tried finding the source of this noise. Finally they all found it was coming from the town PA system. They turned towards the box and someone could be heard laughing a bit to themselves.

The person thought they were smart with what they had conducted so with a cough and a slight voice fixation they began to speak.



Then with a little beep the PA system shut off. Everyone had frozen solid at the message and some jaws gaped wide open to what they had all just heard.


Sadly no one in the town had realized that someone had had to sneak off to DO the message but they had returned to the room without anyone realizing it and joined right back into the conversation.

The town settled back down as they all pondered what this strange message could mean. One thing was for certain and that was something was up.

Soon enough everyone was back to standing in their circle they had made and decided to continue where they left off.

Cello_Marl said:

@Rockin: You've claimed that Gova is your "main target". Why is the only thing that you've said against Gova is that you think his vote on SephMasa is opportunistic? You think Tanny is scum, what do you even care about her opinion for? Here, you have a completely captive audience. Explain to me why Gova is scum.

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There's other stuff I've said about him. His lack of post content (I did a search on his post WITHIN THE GAME and saw he hardly posted of any content except maybe one read or two.) His last and 2nd last post is, like Spear Pillar at the time, a huge gap of what's been going on. On that same last post, he tells that seph is scummy and then votes on it without even telling his opinion about what went down or anything.

And even now, he refuses to post and try to add content, even though I'm sure he's been online several times. The guy needs to go, now.

The only thing Tandora is scummy for is that fake contribution thing with the flavor. As that alone stands, it's not enough for a lynch, cause it doesn't really prove she's scum (only that her action is anti-town).

Woah...that was a bit random there.... o.o;

I said what gord's punishment was, and it was obvious that yours was the bark/kupo thing. >_>. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not that dumb.

Yea my ADD won't let me read that whole thing right now... gimme time to find out the importance there right quick...

@Joey: Then were you feigning ignorance at first, or did it just take you as long as it did to figure it out?

oh wow, I was outdated. Ninja'd hardcooore D:.

I gotta see where I got ninja'd lol i'll post in a sec

K. What. The. Hell.

If this is just J calling Swiss scum I'm gonna laugh my a** off. But probz not cuz that'd be gay (game wise, not fortehlolz wise).

I didn't really find much significance to it tbh... Maybe cuz it's 1 AM idk... but I'll reread it in the morning.

I've been working under the assumption that pink = J and blue = rPSI.

OMG, why isn't Spear Pillar talking?!

Put your vote on Joey, you two! Jeez!

@Cello

Unvote Vote Joey

I'll trust you on this. I want his lynch as bad as you, trust me. I'll see what I can do tomorrow.

Like I said before, I'm willing to get lynched to show you how wrong you are and how bad your playstyle is, and to show how scummy you are. Completely worth it.

I can't find the post I was referencing too @__@; I'll just start reading seph's posts.

Like I said before, I'm willing to get lynched to show you how wrong you are and how bad your playstyle is, and to show how scummy you are. Completely worth it.

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Stop.
This isn't about your integrity or revenge, or stupid **** like that. Nobody's going to be like "omg, haha, Joey was SO right!".
Play the game right.

Joey said:

Like I said before, I'm willing to get lynched to show you how wrong you are and how bad your playstyle is, and to show how scummy you are. Completely worth it.

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Then vote for yourself.

@MK: He's just AtEing. He is playing the game "right", for scum anyway.