New Smash Bros for WiiU

Starphoenix · Apr 13, 2012

I found a really interesting post I thought everyone here would like to read:

cednym said:
I was going through some of my old discs and hard drives and I came across something that I've been trying to find for years: beta Smash Bros. roster information that I typed up waaaay back in 2002.

These notes come from the official Japanese N64 Smash Bros. site and a bunch of old Famitsu magazines from early 2002 (I want to say somewhere between January and April). I'd greatly appreciate any help in relocating some of these articles, because it appears that they've been lost in time. I'm hopeful that there's additional information out there in issues that I haven't had the chance to read.

In the original Super Smash Bros., Sakurai wanted to include some hidden villains: Bowser, Dedede, Wolf (Star Fox 64 was brand new during the planning period), and Mewtwo. However, time and budget constraints meant that Sakurai had to ditch these characters.

Fast forward to Melee: Bowser, Dedede, and Mewtwo were planned for inclusion, but later on Sakurai decided to cut Dedede in favor of adding six clones in his place. (Fans were asking for more characters, so Sakurai figured it would be better to add six clones than to add one original character.) Wolf was going to be one of these clones, but ultimately Falco made the cut because he received more fan requests and because he stood out more from Fox visually. So… Dedede and Wolf were both planned for the first Smash Bros. AND Melee, but they made the final cut for neither. You could say that Dedede and Wolf were eight years in the making.

Just for fun, here's a quick mock-up of what the N64 Smash Bros. select screen probably looked like in terms of placement:

I'm amazed at how conveniently the villains line up below their respective universes. I didn't even have to change the order of any of the default characters!

What does this mean for SSB4? Some of the "Forbidden Seven" might be more likely than we think, given Sakurai's evident propensity for carrying over planned characters into future games.

Oasis_S · Apr 13, 2012

Walf and Smosh 64? That's news.

--- · Apr 13, 2012

Dang, that's going in the Info thread. I honestly didn't know about Wolf, although I did point out a while back that Falco got more requests on the Melee poll. Definitely going to bet that if we had gotten Wolf in Melee, we would have gotten Krystal in Brawl.

Props to that guy for using the trophy pics from that one Japanese site.

Oasis_S · Apr 13, 2012

But you're forgetting that if Falco hadn't been in Melee, he would have had more requests than Krystal for Brawl.

--- · Apr 13, 2012

I'm not a big SF fan, not to mention Krystal didn't exist at the time, so who knows. Good point though.

Starphoenix · Apr 13, 2012

Oasis_S said:
But you're forgetting that if Falco hadn't been in Melee, he would have had more requests than Krystal for Brawl.

Pretty much, I think either way you slice it we still would have wound up with Star Fox characters we did. If anything this shows Sakurai does not like letting characters go to waste, which probably explains why after Brawl was released he did not want to say what characters were cut because of time. I'd say that bodes well for Mewtwo, Roy and Dixie Kong.

Wizzrobe · Apr 13, 2012

I think it would be better if we got Slippy or Peppy for Sm4sh lol.

Oasis_S · Apr 13, 2012

Now I wonder if Wolf's appearance in Melee's intro was a REMNANT of a Shelved idea.

Ridley confirmed.

@Star: Don't forget Toon Sheik. Gosh, haven't you been listening to HyperFalcon???

Starphoenix · Apr 13, 2012

Oasis_S said:
Now I wonder if Wolf's appearance in Melee's intro was a REMNANT of a Shelved idea.

Ridley confirmed.

@Star: Don't forget Toon Sheik. Gosh, haven't you been listening to HyperFalcon???

Might have been, makes you wonder about Samurai Goroh though. Considering he is an AT in Brawl and all.

Yeah... Somehow I can't see every idea resurfacing. Naturally there are some more, um, sensible than others.

Deleted member · Apr 13, 2012

Wait, where did that guy get his source on Wolf? Although it's very logical considering placement, and the fact Wolf wouldn't be mentioned alongside the other three due to not appearing in the Top 20 like they did, I still remain a little skeptical.

EDIT: And he also is claiming that Dedede was going to be the 20th non-clone?

Interesting...

EDIT: Also interesting that if his original plan came to be, StarFox would have two characters while Zelda would remain with only one.

--- · Apr 13, 2012

Starphoenix said:
Might have been, makes you wonder about Samurai Goroh though. Considering he is an AT in Brawl and all.

Yeah... Somehow I can't see every idea resurfacing. Naturally there are some more, um, sensible than others.

Seeing as Ridley was not planned for Melee, Goroh could have been a coincidence as well.

Verde Coeden Scalesworth · Apr 13, 2012

--- said:
Seeing as Ridley was not planned for Melee, Goroh could have been a coincidence as well.

To be fair, in Melee, Ridley was nothing more than just part of a cutscene.

Goroh(and some other AT's) actually has an attack and full movement.

Which means if Sakurai wants them in, they already have a headstart. I don't think Goroh was planned for Brawl, but Ridley may have been. Or atleast "He could be..."

--- · Apr 13, 2012

HyperFalcon said:
To be fair, in Melee, Ridley was nothing more than just part of a cutscene.

Goroh(and some other AT's) actually has an attack and full movement.

Which means if Sakurai wants them in, they already have a headstart. I don't think Goroh was planned for Brawl, but Ridley may have been. Or atleast "He could be..."

I was talking about Goroh being in the Melee intro like Ridley.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Apr 13, 2012

Metal Overlord said:
Mario needs a new Down B, end of story

I REFUSE to accept the horse**** he got in Brawl

There's always the Star Spin to consider.

ChronoBound · Apr 13, 2012

Metal Overlord said:
Just rewatched Pico's Master Class profile video yesterday

Oh my god, he is such a ****ing BAMF. He should get his own game, he should get in Smash, he just needs more exposure in general (like Samurai Goroh)

Pico is my absolute favorite F-Zero racer, and I always use the Wild Goose in every F-Zero game. If Pico did have a realistic shot at Smash Bros. I would be pushing for him really hard. I remember being so disappointed that he was not a trophy in Melee despite being one of the four original F-Zero pilots. I agree that if more people knew about Pico he would be much more popular. I think Pico would be a natural to take Snake's moveset in the event he was to ever leave Smash Bros., or would be a good clone of Snake.

Oasis_S · Apr 13, 2012

HyperFalcon said:
Goroh(and some other AT's) actually has an attack and full movement.

Which means if Sakurai wants them in, they already have a headstart.

I would like to point out that Goroh, and all the other AT's, are just items that happen to look like characters. They're not "stripped-down" characters. Just items. They would need to be completely redone to be made into characters. Including the models.

And Pico is no Snake, don't be silly.

SmashChu · Apr 13, 2012

I haven't heard of the Wolf thing. As far as I have seen, Bowser, Dedede and Mewtwo were planed for 64. I have no idea about Wolf.

@Star:Got some bad news for ya. Been playing Xenoblade, and you may want to rethink a stage (somewhat at least). The Gaur Plain are not a whole area. They are just a part of the larger area which is called Bionis Leg. It has a lot of stuff, and Colony 6 isn't far. The plains are flat while other areas have a lot of hills and ramps.

Starphoenix · Apr 13, 2012

SmashChu said:
I haven't heard of the Wolf thing. As far as I have seen, Bowser, Dedede and Mewtwo were planed for 64. I have no idea about Wolf.

@Star:Got some bad news for ya. Been playing Xenoblade, and you may want to rethink a stage (somewhat at least). The Gaur Plain are not a whole area. They are just a part of the larger area which is called Bionis Leg. It has a lot of stuff, and Colony 6 isn't far. The plains are flat while other areas have a lot of hills and ramps.

It wouldn't be the first time that Sakurai has taken a small portion of a location and used it to represent a whole area. Most of the Yoshi stages are like this. Distant Planet to some degree.

So I'm still good. :cool:

ChronoBound · Apr 13, 2012

Starphoenix said:
I found a really interesting post I thought everyone here would like to read:

I am unable to find the original topic this was posted in, and moreover I cannot find a poster named cednym on this site.

If his findings are indeed true, then this truly does mean a lot in regards to Smash Bros. speculation.

Oasis_S · Apr 13, 2012

Are you sure. So we possibly get some light on the history of Wolf's inclusion, but we already knew Sakurai likes to revisit old ideas.

SmashChu · Apr 13, 2012

Why are we talking about Wolf. We really have no idea if it's true. Maybe it is as the person mentioned old articles, but we still have nothing. Where are we going with it.

ChronoBound · Apr 13, 2012

I very interested how Starphoenix managed to find that post. Does a link to it exist?

Verde Coeden Scalesworth · Apr 13, 2012

--- said:
I was talking about Goroh being in the Melee intro like Ridley.

Well, they both became NPC's in the next game, heh. They both affect battles. Albeit, in a much different way. They have full moving character models and do attacks. I have a feeling that the hackers may know a way to play as bosses now. If they have special character files, that is.

Was Wolf in the Melee intro? I forgot.

Shorts · Apr 13, 2012

SmashChu said:
Why are we talking about Wolf. We really have no idea if it's true. Maybe it is as the person mentioned old articles, but we still have nothing. Where are we going with it.

^^^

No where. It changes nothing. Nothing.

Yomi's Biggest Fan · Apr 13, 2012

Since January, Capcom's Christian Svensson explains that some Capcom vs. crossovers come about from within the company, stating that there's a pretty natural process these titles go through to see if things will work for both parties involved. The funny thing is that he easily gave away that there would be a new crossover by 2014. To be fair, this was posted after Project X Zone was first announced. I woonder what it will be?

http://www.evenhubs.com/news/2012/jan/10/capcoms-crossover-games-happen-organically-not-forced/

Starphoenix · Apr 13, 2012

ChronoBound said:
I am unable to find the original topic this was posted in, and moreover I cannot find a poster named cednym on this site.

If his findings are indeed true, then this truly does mean a lot in regards to Smash Bros. speculation.

NeoGAF.

SmashChu said:
Why are we talking about Wolf. We really have no idea if it's true. Maybe it is as the person mentioned old articles, but we still have nothing. Where are we going with it.

I just posted it because I found it fascinating, that's all.

ChronoBound said:
I very interested how Starphoenix managed to find that post. Does a link to it exist?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36929662&postcount=5080

R.O.B. said:
Since January, Capcom's Christian Svensson explains that some Capcom vs. crossovers come about from within the company, stating that there's a pretty natural process these titles go through to see if things will work for both parties involved. They funny thing is that he easily gave away that there would be a new crossover by 2014. To be fair, this was posted after Project X Zone was first announced. I woonder what it will be?

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/jan/10/capcoms-crossover-games-happen-organically-not-forced/

Your URL is about to give me a virus. I changed it to reflect the right address.

Yomi's Biggest Fan · Apr 13, 2012

My bad, Starphoenix. I had to type the URL on my cell phone since my laptop is dead.

But anyways, the crossover could be with an anime/manga company like Shonen Jump since it was requested a lot.

ToiseOfChoice · Apr 13, 2012

Starphoenix said:
I found a really interesting post I thought everyone here would like to read:

Wolf part is hokey, but there haven't been any cases so far where an "almost" character was both A) an unusual choice and B) ended up playable later on.

I mean, sure, Sukapon and Toon Sheik could prove that wrong, but eh.

ahh go kings

TheFirstPoppyBro · Apr 13, 2012

Trying to beat Old Man Lobber for the millionth time. He's a tough S.O.B. The old guy goes SUPER SAIYAN when he has two health left. Get hit, and it's a one-hit kill. :fuuu:

Oasis_S · Apr 13, 2012

Every time Sukapon is mentioned, another piece of my heart breaks.

--- · Apr 13, 2012

Does the Wolf part even matter at this point? If true, it's just an interesting little tidbit of info that doesn't really change anything. We all already knew that Sakurai likes to revisit old concepts, a lot of developers do that.

Sukapon?

Oasis_S · Apr 13, 2012

--- said:
Sukapon?

Why?

ChronoBound · Apr 14, 2012

Cednyn also brought up later that the original pre-Melee site in which Sakurai mentioned Bowser, King Dedede, and Mewtwo were planned for Smash 64 were in the context of, "of the characters requested on this page, I can say that I was planning Bowser, Mewtwo, and King Dedede".

Opossum · Apr 14, 2012

If only he didn't shoot him down...so much potential...

yani · Apr 14, 2012

Sukapon would be awesome..

Arcadenik · Apr 14, 2012

I absolutely love Pandora's Labyrinth of Deceit... and I would love to see a stage based on this... but my problem is that this stage doesn't really represent Kid Icarus properly as it's only one stage. But I really like the visuals and I came up with a solution... make a new Star Fox stage with the visuals like Pandora's chapter... it would be one big homage to the original Star Fox game on the SNES.

I would like Kid Icarus to have three stages in Smash 4. Skyworld (past stage) to represent Palutena's Army... and Underworld as a vertically scrolling stage to represent the Underworld Army and to pay homage to the NES game even though the graphics are from Uprising... and the Aurum as the Uprising stage since it reflects Kid Icarus' shift from fantasy to sci-fi for a few chapters.... and well, the visuals are pretty trippy and cool.

Oasis_S · Apr 14, 2012

Don't you see we're mourning here, Arcadenik.

vicgur · Apr 14, 2012

How about a stage that keeps scrolling up, from the Underworld to Skyworld, then all the way up to the Star Sea[or whatever it is called] and beyond...?

I mean... Vertically scrolling stages...
What could possibly go wrong?

But seriously, the stage could be like the Lylat Cruise. But instead of traveling through space, it just goes up [until it loops].

PS:
Su
ka
pon

Arcadenik · Apr 14, 2012

I actually would like Underworld to be Smash 4's upward-scrolling stage. I don't even care if it's not viable for tourney play... it's like a tradition to have a upward-scrolling stage since Melee introduced the concept. It must happen.

Oasis_S · Apr 14, 2012

vicgur said:
PS:
Su
ka
pon

Did you feel it?

The Richter Scale measured a Seven point two.

The epicenter?

My heart.

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