Worst Matchups Character Specific

Hive · Oct 27, 2008

Almost all the characters in brawl have at least a few nightmare matchups ^^
What are they? Hive wants to know!
The point of this thread is to find out what the worst 2-3 matchups for each character are!
So far this thread has gotten a lot of replies! ^^ thnx to everyone who contributed ^^ I still expect that there are at least a few things wrong with it... but hopefully over time these will be sorted out with discussion

Bowser-DDD, ICs
C. Falcon-Peach, Pikachu
DK-DDD (no fat chicks), ICs
Diddy Kong- Falco
Falco- G&W, Marth, MK?
Fox- Pikachu, ZSS, Sheik
G&W- Snake, MK, Marth
Ganondorf- ICs, MK, Marth
ICs- G&W, MK
Ike-Falco, Olimar, DDD
Jigglypuff-G&W, Olimar, Falco
DDD- Pikachu, Olimar, Falco?
Kirby- Zelda, ICs, Marth
Link- MK, Kirby, Falco
Lucario- Marth, DDD
Lucas- Marth, G&W
Luigi- DDD, MK, Luigi
Mario- MK, DDD
Marth- MK, Snake, DDD
MK- MK, Yoshi, Snake
Ness- Marth, G&W, MK
Olimar-R.O.B., Peach, Luigi?
Peach

- G&W, Falco, MK
Pikachu-MK, G&W, Marth, Wolf?
Pit-MK, G&W, Marth?
P.T.-Falco, Marth, MK, G&W
R.O.B.-MK, G&W
Samus- MK, Olimar, DDD
Sheik-MK, G&W, ICs
Snake-Pikachu, DDD, R.O.B., Falco
Sonic-Wario, MK, Olimar?
Tlink-MK, Marth, Wario, Olimar
Wario-DDD, Marth
Wolf-Falco, MK, DDD
Yoshi-G&W, Marth
Zelda- G&W, Marth
ZSS-Falco

***Discussion*** Ok, sorry for the delay in getting some of these up, just got done up through page 10 @.@
but there are a few discrepincies I need you guys to figure out:
green= matchup leaning one way, yellow= needs to be looked at (a fair amount) , orange=needs to be looked at (strong)

1.Is Olimar a bad matchup for Sonic?? people who say yes (Greenstreet, CaliburChamp) people who say no (ROOOOY!, Snail, Blackbelt)
2. Is Yoshi a bad match for MK? People who say yes (Mmac, Bigman40) People who say no (Piginabag, IvanEva). As Mmac and Bigman0 are both yoshi mains and piginabag and Ivaneva are not, I say its more probable to say that Yoshi is a bad MK matchup.
3. Wario- DDD (Gheb_101, Rehab, Joxer) Marth (Gheb_101, Bravedave88, Joxer) Yoshi (Gheb_101, Joxer) counterargument (Bravedave88), Luigi (Yonder, Joxer) counterargument (PhantomX), G&W (Bravedave88) counterargument (PhantomX)
As you can see Wario has a lot of different possibilities right now.... @.@ pretty safe to say DDD and Marth however...
4. Does Pit counter Olimar? People who say yes (Viparagon) People who say no (Snail, Maniaclyrasist, Dynne)- pretty safe to say no on this one ^^
5. Is Olimar a bad matchup for MK? People who say yes () People who say no (TlinkKing, asob4, EdreesesPieces, DangR, ROOOOY!) really safe to say no for now.
also, there is pretty much a whole thread on this

*** http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201936

which I would say summarizes like this (if I'm not mistaken)
Olimar has the advantage: Atomsk_92, Mew2King, Rykoshet, brinboy789
Neutral matchup: Yawnbored, Zori
Mk has the advantage: Pyronic_Star, Kyas, DanGR, -NaPPy, dabuz
6. Is DK a bad matchup for Lucas? People who say yes (Natch, Blackbelt) People who say no (Levitas)
7. Is R.O.B. a bad matchup for Falco? People who say yes (dainbramage, Dragz) people who say no (Gheb_101, Yeniths)
8. There are way too many proposed bad matchups for sonic lol, which ones should I keep up?
Olimar (Greenstreet, CaliburChamp) counterargument (Blackbelt, Snail, ROOOOY!), Wario-(ROOOOY!, PhantomX, Snail, CaliburChamp) really safe to say yes on Wario, MK (ROOOOY!), G&W (ROOOOY!) counterargument (Greenstreet, TehUmby), Luigi (Yonder) counterargument (ROOOOY!, Cr4sh)
9. Is Tlink a bad matchup for G&W? yes (Bengalsrz) no (Gheb_101, Bnzaa)
10. Does Snake Counter Peach? yes (Gea), no (Praxis, Bentobox, ppls Praxis named)
Does Falco? yes (Praxis, EdreesesPieces) no (Bentobox)
12. There are a lot of Pit suggestions,

Samuelson · Oct 27, 2008

LOL at TL being a bad matchup for MK. Some characters don't have "nightmare" matchups. Lucario's worst match up is only 60:40 and i believe the same goes for Marth. MK doesn't even really have bad matchups, he only has ones that are even at best.

Hive · Oct 27, 2008

@Samuelson-Oh, don't worry I know most of this is wrong right now ^^
that's why I need your guys' help... I think it would be kwl to put something like this together...

and you're right, some characters don't have "nightmare matchups" exactly but everyone has a worst matchup simply b/c not all matchups can be even ^^... I was hoping to find those out.

Samuelson · Oct 27, 2008

I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a MK should be banned discussion very quickly. Also, some characters have like 10 nightmare matchups hahaha

Hive · Oct 27, 2008

@samuelson- lol yea ^^ I really hope it doesn't turn into that lol
but if it does I'll just take down the post simple as that

this thread is just to have fun and figure out people's bad matchups are, and if it causes more harm than good, then there's really no point keeping it up of course :D

edit: tactical discussion already has too many mk threads as it is

FIERCE · Oct 27, 2008

For Zelda I'm pretty sure it's Mr.Game&Watch.

Samuelson · Oct 27, 2008

This would be nice to have. It would make things easier for us lazy people. It's just that we already have 2 character matchup charts lol.

Greenstreet · Oct 27, 2008

Sonic - Olimar

Hive · Oct 27, 2008

@samuelson- oh, I don't mean it to be a matchup chart :D that would be tedious...
although there are some flaws in the ones we have right now... Dangrs is coming along nicely though but doesn't have enough info yet, plus it doesn't always tell you what a characters worst matchups are... a lot of similar disadvantages might be clumped together...

@FIERCE- noted and edited

thnx for the input

PND · Oct 27, 2008

Jiggs: Pretty much agreed upon by all Jiggsers are G&W, Olimar, and Falco.

Praxis · Oct 27, 2008

Olimar's nightmare = Peach.

Peach's nightmare = G&W and Falco, MK third I guess.

AndrewCarlson · Oct 27, 2008

Marth: Meta Knight
Ike: Meta Knight, Olimar
Pit: Meta Knight, Mr. Game & Watch

Mmac · Oct 27, 2008

I think the chart should tell you though that Yoshi is MetaKnight's worst matchup though....

Anyways, Yoshi's worst is Game & Watch.

dainbramage · Oct 27, 2008

Falco; g&w (worst by far), marth, rob, mk.
DK; DDD

Mmac · Oct 27, 2008

dainbramage said:
Falco; g&w (worst by far), marth, rob, mk.
DK; DDD

You know, It's worst Matchups, not matchups you are plain disadvantaged on.

Plus doesn't he have an advantage on DK/Dedede?

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 27, 2008

These are in order (imo):

MK: MK
Snake: Pikachu, King Dedede, ROB
King Dedede: Pikachu, Olimar, Falco
G&W: Snake, MK, Marth
Falco: MK, G&W, Marth
ROB: MK, G&W, King Dedede
Marth: MK, Snake, King Dedede
Wario: King Dedede, Marth, lolYoshi
DK: King Dedede, King Dedede, King Dedede
Pikachu: G&W, MK, Marth
Wolf: Falco, MK, King Dedede

These are the ones I know for sure

Amide · Oct 27, 2008

Since when in humanity does Meta Knight have a hard time against Olimar?

Natch · Oct 27, 2008

Lucas: Marth, MK

Piginabag · Oct 27, 2008

Yoshi= not a hard matchup for Meta Knight.

Yoshi's bad matchups? Pretty much everyone.

~ Gheb ~ · Oct 27, 2008

TLink_King said:
Since when in humanity does Meta Knight have a hard time against Olimar?

Since M2K, Atomsk and Inui say so

DarkThundah · Oct 27, 2008

FIERCE said:
For Zelda I'm pretty sure it's Mr.Game&Watch.

*groan* .. I hate G&W

IvanEva · Oct 27, 2008

Piginabag said:
Yoshi= not a hard matchup for Meta Knight.

Yoshi's bad matchups? Pretty much everyone.

I agree with the first line but disagree with the second. He can hold his own against plenty of characters (although certainly not enough).

I'd put Metaknight's worst match-ups to be Donkey Kong, Overswarm, and Snake. :laugh:

ROOOOY! · Oct 27, 2008

Sonic's worst is Olimar? Is it balls. It's 40:60 at worst

Sonic's hardest match-up is Wario, it's more or less universally agreed on. MK & G&W would be on there too, I think.

PhantomX · Oct 27, 2008

Haha, I always feel bad for Sonics when I play them

Ussi · Oct 27, 2008

Ike: Olimar, Falco
Pikachu: Marth, MK, G&W

(if order meant anything, I believe mine is in he best order)

Snail · Oct 27, 2008

Sonic's worst is Wario, not Oli ._. Also... MK's worst is MK.

Magik0722 · Oct 27, 2008

Pokemon trainer would be falco mainly and also marth. the PT boards agree.

CaliburChamp · Oct 27, 2008

Pit is a good counter for Snake. Sonic's hardest match up is Olimar and Wario. ROB counters Kirby. Lucario doesn't do so badly against MK, his worst match ups are Snake and G&W. Kirby counters PT.

Wyvern-x · Oct 27, 2008

Ike: Falco and Olimar

BraveDave88 · Oct 27, 2008

As loath as I am to say that Wario *has* any bad matchups, I'd say Marth. Though after fighting Gooey's Game and Watch at the latest tourney, I'm inclined to add him to the list.

PhantomX · Oct 27, 2008

Watch ain't so bad for Wario. His list seems accurate enough with respect to Wario... though I still vehemently debate Yoshi

Lord Yawgmoth · Oct 27, 2008

<.< I thought it was pretty much agreed on that Zelda's worst match was Marth, but I can see where the Game&Watch is coming from.

and, lol, Falco is on there twice,

Levitas · Oct 27, 2008

take DK off for lucas and put marth in. really.

Also, ness has MK and ICs? Edrees was considering counterpicking Ness on ICs. and MK is NOT as bad as some others.

Ness is probably Marth and then G&W, even though I hate the fact that ness and lucas have the same worst matchups.

bigman40 · Oct 27, 2008

Piginabag said:
Yoshi= not a hard matchup for Meta Knight.

Yoshi's bad matchups? Pretty much everyone.

Glad that you have the mind that is equal to your posts. Post something you know rather than talking about a character you know nothing of.

Steeler · Oct 27, 2008

kirby does not counter pt.

mk, falco, marth, gw. pick 3 of them for pt's toughest matchup.

viparagon · Oct 27, 2008

Olimar has serious issues with pit.
Get rid of IC's for mario, put in metaknight

Snail · Oct 27, 2008

viparagon said:
Olimar has serious issues with pit.
Get rid of IC's for mario, put in metaknight

Olimar vs Pit is 50/50.

Oli's worst matchup is either Peach or ROB, both around 65/35 to 70/30.

EdreesesPieces · Oct 27, 2008

Gheb_01 said:
Since M2K, Atomsk and Inui say so

Have they lost to any Olimar players before?

And what levitas said. IMO Ness is even with IC. He may even have the advantage O_o

Ulevo · Oct 27, 2008

Hive said:
Bowser - King Dedede
Captain Falcon - Ice Climbers
Falco - Marth
Donkey Kong - King Dedede
Fox - Pikachu
G&W - Toon Link
Ganondorf - Ice Climbers
ICs - Meta Knight
Ike - King Dedede
Jigglypuff - G&W/Olimar
King Dedede - Pikachu
Kirby -
Link - King Dedede
Lucario -
Lucas - G&W
Luigi - King Dedede
Mario - King Dedede
Marth - Meta Knight
Meta Knight - Snake
Ness - Marth
Olimar -
Peach -
Pikachu -
Pit -
PK Trainer -
R.O.B. -
Samus - King Dedede
Sheik - Ice Climbers
Snake - Olimar
Sonic -
Toon Link - Meta Knight
Wario - King Dedede/Yoshi
Wolf - Ice Climbers
Yoshi -
Zelda - G&W
ZSS -

Fill in the blanks.

NintenJoe · Oct 27, 2008

Hive said:
Link- MK, Kirby, Falco

Spot on, those are all of his worst match-ups. Maybe Fox too, but I don't know. Depends on how much the Fox player relies on shine gimps.

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